This isn't about the evacuation plan, this is about the RESPONSE.

[mzmolly]

To my understanding they are blaming locals because they had an insufficient evacuation plan?

The storm was supposed to surpass NO according to many meteorologists correct? Not every state in the way of hurricane Katrina had FEMA help with evacuations. This is hurricane season in the South. These storms come and go ...

What is a disgrace is the FEDERAL RESPONSE to this disaster. The Mayor had to go to the media before help arrived. He said that he called Bush's office for days - to no avail.

This is about the lack of response to the disaster in L.A. not about some BS evacuation plan.

[georgia10]

1. exactly

not sure if you had a chance to check out my post, but it's all there, in black and white.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4668155

[mzmolly]

3. Awesome thread.

Kicked and recommended, thanks for the info!

[bejammin075]

40. Didn't the mayor evacuate 80% ?

In the CBS interview, i thought the NO mayor said it was a city of 500,000. he said 100,000 were left behind. that would mean 400,000 got out. it's not like he was asleep at the wheel. the reality of the situation couldn't penetrate into the cloak of unreality that shields the whole bush admin.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

2. Exactly. The NeoCons are trying to shift the focus and the blame.

[H2O Man]

10. "perception management."

It's started. Our job is to counter it.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

4. Bush wants it to be about the evacuation plan

All the blame is to go onto the local Government. FEMA is not to blame, the pResident is the victim. Long live Boosh!

Didn't you get the memo?

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. I love their symantics

they are really grabbing at straws at this point.

[mzmolly]

7. They certainly are. But, on the one hand it means they know they F-d

up the response. They have little to grasp at.

[cynatnite]

6. They'll use the evacuation plan to blame local and state officials...

but I think it'll wind up backfiring on them. Everything I've read so far shows me the local and state officials did their jobs.

They had resource problems and looked to the federal government for help...we know how well that went. :eyes:

[Carni]

8. You got it--the Mayor requested BEGGED for Chinook and black eye

Helicopters IMMEDIATELY after the storm was over to shore up the levees--the copters never arrived to move those 1500 lb sandbags.

This WHOLE FRIGGIN NIGHTMARE COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED!

[walldude]

9. Any time someone blames the evacuation plan

we should just say "What if this was a terrorist attack?"A dirty bomb, a nuke or a biological weapon will have no advanced warning.

[mzmolly]

12. Good point!

Very good.

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. Thanks! My head is going to explode I swear!

The kool aid chuggers are swallowing this evac crap big time! They want to believe it!

[Bridget Burke]

11. About advance planning--who coordinates it?

Isn't it FEMA's duty to get local, state & national governments together?

Especially since hurricanes are a fact of life on the Gulf Coast. And the special vulnerability of New Orleans was well known.

[mzmolly]

13. See post #2

and the thread noted. It spells it all out.

[Liberal In Texas]

14. BINGO. We have a winner. But that's what the RW does, takes the

spotlight and attempts to move it somewhere else. Even if that "somewhere else" is a lie or at most a half truth.

[stillcool]

15. heard on local news..

that it was the governors fault because she didn't specifically request help with evacuations. In a letter that she wrote to pos this was on the bottom of the second page;
ENCLOSURE A TO EMERGENCY REQUEST
Estimated requirements for other Federal agency programs:
• Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters. Costs estimated to range from $250,000-$500,000 to support (6) Shelter generator operations.
• Louisiana State Police (LSP): Costs to support evacuations - $300,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Costs to support evacuations - $200,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Costs to support evacuations - $2,000,000 for a non-direct landfall.

which states costs to support evacuations...no?

[Barack_America]

16. Even if she had asked, they wouldn't have been able to...

...because they had no plan and nobody in position.

[stillcool]

17. No. The news is reporting that the federal government....

is saying that the loss of life is due to the fact that the governor did not specifically request help with evacuation.

[Barack_America]

24. I understand that. What I'm saying is that they weren't in...

...position to help her even if she had because FEMA, and the rest of the federal government for that matter, don't seem to believe that evacuations are their responsibility


From the FEMA Strategic Plan

"Public perceptions of disaster-related performance may not always coincide with FEMA’s roles. Specifically, FEMA is not a first-responder, nor are disaster programs intended to cover all losses that may be associated with an event."

Evacuations are a first-responder event!

[Spazito]

20. Bull!

There was a plan, it is called the Emergency Operation Plan. It is referenced in the Governor's letter to bush requsting a designation of a disaster area which he did on the 28th of August.

Please do read the thread regarding the Response Plan, that lays it out in detail.

[Barack_America]

23. Oh I've read it, I just don't see much of a plan...

[Spazito]

26. LOL whether you or I think much of the plan, it was the one that was

adopted and became the federal government's responsibility to implement.

[Barack_America]

Ok then...tell me what those passages mean...

And don't use words like "assist" "suggest" "help" "prepare".

Tell me which units of which agencies will do what and when.

THAT is a plan. Anything else is just rhetoric (unless of course, state and local officials get a different version of this with all of the gaps filled in)

[mzmolly]

30. Read Georgia's thread. The pResident is responsible

period. Additionally what if the Governor was dead for gawd sakes? The man many fools voted for - George Bush is responsible for this calamity like it or not!

[Barack_America]

33. Did the DHS actually write the NRP?? 'Cause it doesn't sound

like they're aware of the role it gives them.

DHS bascially wipes their hands of anything caused by a natural disaster, period.

And FEMA in NO WAY sees itself as a first responder (I think I provided an excerpt from their strategic plan?)

So then, if Bush is in charge...who the hell acts as a first-responder? The NG? Wouldn't that need to automatically come under Bush's command without Blanco signing anything?

Listen, I'm not saying that I don't believe that the government failed to uphold the NRP, I do. What I'm trying to get to the bottom is whether it could have ever been implemented as it is written and as the agencies involved see (and have planned for) their involvement. It sounds like they wrote a plan for one thing and prepared for another.

I'm not trying to be a bitch in anyway. I just think that it is a very important discussion and I want to make sure I understand it...

[mzmolly]

34. The DHS published the NRP - let's hope they know what's in it.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0566.xml

The National Response Plan establishes a comprehensive all-hazards approach to enhance the ability of the United States to manage domestic incidents. The plan incorporates best practices and procedures from incident management disciplines—homeland security, emergency management, law enforcement, firefighting, public works, public health, responder and recovery worker health and safety, emergency medical services, and the private sector—and integrates them into a unified structure. It forms the basis of how the federal government coordinates with state, local, and tribal governments and the private sector during incidents. It establishes protocols to help

Save lives and protect the health and safety of the public, responders, and recovery workers;

Ensure security of the homeland;

Prevent an imminent incident, including acts of terrorism, from occurring;

Protect and restore critical infrastructure and key resources;
Conduct law enforcement investigations to resolve the incident, apprehend the perpetrators, and collect and preserve evidence for prosecution and/or attribution;

Protect property and mitigate damages and impacts to individuals, communities, and the environment;

Facilitate recovery of individuals, families, businesses, governments, and the environment.

And ...

Emphasis on Local Response

HOWEVER, All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures.

Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events

The National Response Plan provides mechanisms for expedited and proactive Federal support to ensure critical life-saving assistance and incident containment capabilities are in place to respond quickly and efficiently to catastrophic incidents. These are high-impact, low-probability incidents, including natural disasters and terrorist attacks that result in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the population, infrastructure, environment, economy, national morale, and/or government functions.

As you can see, the feds are not absolved in matters of natural disaster. There is no doubt that this natural disaster is of national significance as Bush delcared it as such, thus the local Government is/was NOT responsible.

[Barack_America]

35. But my question is did they PREPARE for their involvement...

...in a natural disaster or was DHS just so obsessed with terrorist attack?

It's beginning to sound like the thought was..."oh, just another hurricane" and left it up to Brown/FEMA to handle it until it was too late.

Sorry, I'm a detail person. If the plan broke down I want to know exactly where it broke.

Basically, I'm still wondering whether or not they were ever poised to enact this plan in the event of a natural disaster.

[mzmolly]

37. They were supposedly prepared for any disaster

regardless of cause.

Read it, it's clear. I thought my previous reply to you highlited this fact.

[mzmolly]

32. That's because the Governor deferred to the NRP.

Read the link in georgia10's post above.

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. EXACTLY but to deflect blame they are focusing on THAT!

I was just going to post on this! It's driving me nuts! They always do this! EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME! Deflect away from their grave INCOMPETENCE! And they get away with it! :argh: I bet they will this time too! :mad:

[mzmolly]

21. Just like the head of FEMA blaming the victims for not evacuating.

They are beyond reason.

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. FEMA didn't have it's shit together, couldn't get it's shit together and

STILL doesn't have it's shit together! Pinhead** puts a Totally Incompetent Moran in charge of FEMA and this is what HAPPENS! :mad: Heads better roll over this!

[Tatiana]

22. But it's all Nagin's fault because he's a showboating Republican!

I can't believe nobody is picking up on the story of how Nagin tried to fix the 17th street canal breach!

First, this alert was posted by WWLTV:

***ALL RESIDENTS ON THE EAST BANK OF ORLEANS AND JEFFERSON REMAINING IN THE METRO AREA ARE BEING TOLD TO EVACUATE AS EFFORTS TO SANDBAG THE LEVEE BREAK HAVE ENDED. THE PUMPS IN THAT AREA ARE EXPECTED TO FAIL SOON AND 9 FEET OF WATER IS EXPECTED IN THE ENTIRE EAST BANK. WITHIN THE NEXT 12-15 HOURS****

WWLTV also had established a blog that contained the following entries:

"Efforts to stop the levee break at the 17th Street Canal have ended unsuccessfully and the water is expected to soon overwhelm the pumps in that area, allowing water to pour into the east bank of Metairie and Orleans to an expected height of 12-15 feet."


7:59 P.M. - Mayor Nagin: Pumps at 17th street canal has failed and water will continue pouring into the city. Nine feet of water is expected on St. Charles Avenue that will be nine feet high. Water is expected to spread throughout the east bank of Orleans and possibly Jefferson Parish.

OK, so why did the repair efforts to the levee fail?

8:04 P.M. - Mayor Nagin: Unhappy that the helicopters slated to drop 3,000-pound bags into the levee never showed up to stop the flow of water. Too many chiefs calling shots he says.

And this from CNN...

The National Weather Service reported a breach along the Industrial Canal levee at Tennessee Street, in southeast New Orleans, on Monday. Local reports later said the levee was overtopped, not breached, but the Corps of Engineers reported it Tuesday afternoon as having been breached.

But Nagin said a repair attempt was supposed to have been made Tuesday.

According to the mayor, Black Hawk helicopters were scheduled to pick up and drop massive 3,000-pound sandbags in the 17th Street Canal breach, but were diverted on rescue missions. Nagin said neglecting to fix the problem has set the city behind by at least a month.

"I had laid out like an eight-week to ten-week timeline where we could get the city back in semblance of order. It's probably been pushed back another four weeks as a result of this," Nagin said.

[mzmolly]

25. Well it's safe for them to spin when the LA government is actually tending

to the disaster.

[Zenlitened]

27. Exactly. Even if state and local dropped the ball, it was up to Bush and..

... his hand-picked political hacks to pick it up.

And they didn't. That's a fact. They failed. They completely and utterly failed.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

28. Right.

nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. If this ticks you off, go here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22507&mesg_id=22507

[mzmolly]

31. Hey friend.

I think we got the wrong link?

:shrug: :hi:

[chalky]

38. Remember: NO SURVIVED the hurricane. It did NOT survive the BREACH.

A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it connects to the brand new ‘hurricane proof’ Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday morning in Bucktown after Katrina’s fiercest winds were well north.

http://www.nola.com/weblogs/print.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/print074994.html

(8/29)According to news reports, it appears that New Orleans, though damaged and flooded, was spared from the worst case scenario. However, it appears that Mississippi might have taken the brunt of the storm. We will know more as the day goes on.

http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/hsus_disaster_center/advisory_situation_reports_from_the_hsus_disaster_center/situation_report_hurricane_katrina_82905.html

(One ominous note also found in the last article:"An observer in a fire station across the street from the 17th Street Canal reported seeing water leaking from the levee....")

[mzmolly]

41. That's correct.

Thanks for the links.

[RobinA]

39. I Agree

The evacuation plan and the response are completely different animals. Had the response been timely it would be time to blame the evacuation plan if it wasn't followed. The way things are now, the non-response far overshadows any evacuation miscues.