Is it true that the Federal Government couldn't enter LA. until it was

[othermeans]

summoned by the State government? This seems to be the story I'm getting from some of the Republicans I know in defense of Bush's inaction.

[valerief]

1. I don't think they got an invitation to invade Iraq and they did

They can do anything they want. They didn't want to respond. They went out of their way to NOT respond.

They are evil.

[neuvocat]

6. They didn't need permission to use their national guard.

[Spazito]

2. Read this thread, the answer is in there

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4668155

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. No

bush declared it an emergency area THREE DAYS BEFORE the hurricane hit. That gave FEMA permission to go in. They should have been there before, during and immediately after the hurricane.

[dchill]

8. And Governor Blanco declared...

a state of emergency on AUG 26th, despite what Karl Rove says. The White House rescue operation is ONLY about rescueing the White House.

[ThoughtCriminal]

4. No - What is this 1861?

And yes they were "Summoned"

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html
http://www.fema.gov/emanagers/2005/nat082705.shtm

[bettyellen]

5. the gov did ask for help.

good god, did evreyone have cool aid in the water cooler this morning?

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. I think so!

:banghead:

[robbedvoter]

7. LA is surrounded by very high walls and they took away all the ladders

Poor federal government - had to wait until our fearless leader personally carved new ones for them. Oh, the humanity!

[dweller]

10. All the catapults were busy ...

with upcoming propaganda.


dp

[htuttle]

9. LOL! The Feds don't even need permission to enter your house anymore!

[DawgHouse]

15. Okay, I'm stealing this line. Hope you don't mind!

:)

[jimshoes]

11. The feds are

in charge of Homeland security. They failed us all.

[ET Awful]

13. They were summoned on the 28th by Blanco's letter to Bush.

Regardless of whether they have to be summoned or not, they WERE summoned prior to the storm hitting.

[Quixote1818]

14. It's FEMA's responsibility to take over if state and local gov. are

stumbling. They could jump in at any time. It's possible that they didn't fill out the complicated mass of paperwork correctly and FEMA was so Anal and by the book they did nothing. When lives are in the balance worrying about Red tape is criminal so it's certainly NO excuse for FEMA. Not to mention, why did it take FEMA five days to act in the first place.

[Spazito]

24. Actually, their responsibility begins immediately after the President

signs the document declaring Louisiana a disaster area. It then becomes an Incident of National Significance, immediately activating all federal agencies. There is nothing about 'stumbling' anywhere. The Governor did what was needed to activate the federal responsibilities.

[Quixote1818]

25. Here is how ABC news put it

Shortly before Katrina hit, she (Blanco) sent President Bush a request, asking for shelter and provisions, but didn't specifically ask for help with evacuations. One aide to the governor told ABC News today Blanco thought city officials were taking care of the evacuation.

Nonetheless, some experts argue that the federal government should have been more proactive.

"If the city and the state are stumbling or in over their head, then it's FEMA's responsibility to show some leadership," said Jerry Hauer, director of public health preparedness at the Department of Health and Human Services.

[Spazito]

27. That might be ABC but that doesn't mean they have read the

National Response Plan, I would bet big money they have not. Please note it is a Federal Agency head using the meme of the day,blame city and state 'officials', the director of public health preparedness at the Department of Health and Human Services, which, by the way, did not fulfill their responsibilities under the National Response Plan. Any wonder he is covering asses here?

[Quixote1818]

35. I think the word stumbling is the wrong word

I took it to mean, if the local gov. is in over it's head and is asking for help then FEMA must jump in where needed. He probably used the word stumbling to cover his ass.

[dogday]

16. There is no defense of Bush's inaction

by his own hand or lack of it, he caused people to die...........

[formernaderite]

17. there is an act called Posse comitatus...

which prevents the feds from "invading" a state. That has nothing to do with fema. It has everything to do with requisitioning guard troops.

[tabasco]

23. Posse comitatus applies to Regular forces, not National Guard.

I was a regular army officer in the 10th Mountain Division during Hurricane Andrew. Three days before the storm hit, we had a warning order to get ready. 2 days after the storm hit we were on the ground at Homestead / Florida City. Due to posse comitatus, we were not able to perform security missions, so we left the weapons in New York. We were able to distribute food,water, and supplies, which we started doing right away. The NG was able to carry weapons and perfomed security such as looking for looters but there wasn't a big problem.

Posse comitatus is NOT a hindrance on sending in regular troops for humanitarian missions. It is a restriction only on combat/security/police type missions.

[oasis]

26. The same national guard units needed here to guard our nation. Not Iraq.

[Individualist]

18. NO!

See post #2 and show it to the liars who are spreading that BS.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

19. Here's an article....... I'd print it and show it to your co-workers

Apparently, the info was false and has now been retracted by one of the Washington Post corrected that info. But ooops - too late. That is now the right-wing meme.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050905/cm_huffpost/006889
Arianna Huffington
Mon Sep 5, 7:39 PM ET

-snip-

Well, according to the New York Times, Rove, Bartlett and the damage control boys are at it again, rolling out a plan to hang the post-Katrina debacle around the necks of Louisiana state and local officials… and, in the process, erase the image of a crassly incompetent administration too busy vacationing to worry about the dying in New Orleans.

-snip-

What I don’t understand is why the media continue to be star players on the Bush damage control team. Take the way that both the Washington Post and Newsweek obediently, and ineptly, passed on -- and thus gave credence to -- the Bush party line that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco’s hesitancy to declare a state of emergency had prevented the feds from responding to the crisis more rapidly.

The Post, citing an anonymous “senior Bush official”, reported on Sunday that, as of Saturday, Sept. 3, Blanco “still had not declared a state of emergency”… when, in fact, the declaration had been made on Friday, August 26 -- over 2 days BEFORE Katrina made landfall in Louisiana. This claim was so demonstrably false that the paper was forced to issue a correction just hours after the original story appeared.


-snip-

The Washington Post corrected its article. Now it should take the next step and reveal who the source of that provably false chunk of slime was. And Newsweek should do the same. It’s time for the media to get back to doing their job and stop being the principal weapon in Team Bush’s damage control arsenal.

[LSK]

20. HELL NO!! ITS NOT TRUE!!!

The governor requested help BEFORE the hurricane and by doing so, allowed Bush to use any federal agency to help with the disaster.

http://www.fema.gov/library/stafact.shtm

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

[Maiden England]

21. Blanco letter requesting help before Katrina gave permission for entry

for anything the feds sent. Specifically.

[SoCalDemocrat]

22. Bush asked for control over state

Typical CONs, they demanded that the gov give them complete control over all state resources, including their national guard. The Gov refused, and Bush left them to rot.

[Emit]

28. Question about that

Has anyone read anywhere where the other states that were hit were asked this by Bush and/or whether they did give complete control over all of their state resources to Bush & Co.?

Also, what does that mean, actually (sorry to be so naive) as far as Blanco 'refusing'? IOW, was she protecting something potentially far greater that would affect the entire US? There must have been some good reason to refuse ('refuse assistance', that's another way they're spinning this) Thanks in advance.

Here is what a local right wing nut radio host said today, and Hannity was repeating this over and over today as well (I know, I know, why do I listen?---I have to know the enemy, and they're really doing some spin on this!): "This was not a federal problem when it began, but it will now require the feds to step in and clean up the mess made by the democrats in NOLA..."

I'm writing an e-mail to this shithead right now, and I'm trying to get some sources. TX again.

[Igel]

29. Blanco has insisted in recent days that she is in charge of the

emergency response and recovery. FEMA apparently *can* go in; Blanco has told them no, when they asked for full control. I can't see the Feds overriding her, and any DUer worth his/her salt supporting that.

On Sunday, Blanco and Nagin had to be asked to declare a mandatory evacuation and invoke the state emergency evacuation plans. This was silly, IMHO.

Point: If the feds were automatically in full control, and needed to do nothing more, neither their two requests, nor Blanco's statements, make any sense whatsoever. I've asked, as far as I've been able to check (given the level 3 restrictions in DU that usually prevail) nobody's reconciled those statements with "the Feds are automatically in full control as of Aug. 26 (28)" assertion.

Moreover, Blanco is in charge (contra some) of her NG forces. Other governors send theirs when she asks, providing the pre-agreed limitations on their mission are met.

There are two issues: When did Blanco specifically ask other states for their NGs, and the feds for help? Did FEMA anticipate reasonable needs, and fill the requests quickly? A goofup at either end would yield the results we've seen. I can't judge between the two without facts; I may want to believe, but belief and facts are two different kinds of critter.

[Spazito]

30. That is totally inaccurate. The issue between bush and Blanco

was this:

"The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

If the governor had ceded control, the National Guard could no longer do policing duties because they would then come under Posse Comitatus and she needed them to do policing duties as well.

Edited to add: Read this thread to find some answers to your other points, it addresses them perfectly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4668155&mesg_id=4668155

[Igel]

31. That makes no sense.

Weren't there something like 7k troops (regular military) that went in soon thereafter?

They'd still be NG.

And didn't Blanco *have* unified control over all the NG and police? If so, what's so seek? If not, why didn't she? She's to be in charge according to the state law she cited at the beginning of her Aug. 28 declaration of a state of emergency.

[Spazito]

33. Because the request for federalization by the bush admin

would also put all State ASSETS under federal control which also means the oil assets that are CURRENTLY under state control. That was the real reason for the request for her to give up her authority.

If the guard had been federalized then Posse Comitatus kicks in which is a protection against military rule and prohibits the military in it's action within the country.

[Emit]

34. Do you have an opinion on my question above ?

See post #28. So far, your answers to the issues re: Posse Comitatus are the closest anyone has come to a reasonable answer about this issue. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Garbo 2004]

37. She didn't refuse assistance, she refused to allow feds to take control of

state/local assets/resources.

Somewhere around here in the last day or so someone posted a link to a NorthCom admiral who said there was no need/reason/benefit to federalizing the state/local resources.

Basically it sounds like the feds were attempting to blackmail the state, demanding Blanco allow federalization.

NOTHING stopped the feds from giving assistance, proactively or otherwise once Bush declared a state of emergency. Blanco declared state of emergency on 26th, on 27th requested that Bush declare state of emergency for LA and he did. Once the Pres declares a state of emergency, under homeland security act, the pres/feds has/have expanded jurisdiction/latitude and powers over such incidents/areas. The state in no way prevented the feds from doing what needed to be done.

What is more interesting and few are asking, why was the US military left to cool its heels for days before Bush ordered them into action? (Not a posse comitatus issue at all when using military for aid and assistance.) (Northcom's Sean Kelly? said they were prepared to assist and just waiting for orders.) Why a military hospital ship sat outside NOLA unused while people were dying from lack of medical care/meds? Why was FEMA blocking aid from other jurisdictions as well as volunteers?

[bpilgrim]

36. gotta link?

i gotta copy of the formal request for assistance from the feds right here...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/katrina/Disaster_Relief_Request

and audio and video of them BEGGING for federal assistance...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/gallery/index.php?cat=19

this sounds awfully fishy and would love to have a source to learn more about this source.

tia :toast:

peace

[HEyHEY]

32. I heard they can declare some kinda thing that forgoes that

[me b zola]

38. Gov Blanco requested federal assistance 8/28

She begged for federal assistence.

Tell the neo-thugs to go fuck themselves.