Mass Evacuations: Do We Need Plans? Who's Responsible?

[Barack_America]

I would like to respectfully disagree with the post that said "It's not about the evacuations"

Though the timing of the federal response was certainly important, thousands likely drowned in their flooded homes before ever making it to the attic or roof.

So the question is, should they have been there in the first place?

Our country, save the District of Columbia, has no plans for mass evacuation of our cities? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this point. By "mass evacuation" I mean a plan to get everybody out.

Is this acceptable four years after 9/11? Do we call for plans to be drawn up? Who's responsible, Federal or State/Local governments?

It is my opinion that the answer is Yes and that the Department of Homeland Security should've been working with local officials to address this issue LONG ago.

What do you think?

[Barack_America]

1. nobody cares about evacuation

[daninthemoon]

2. I've been wondering something. Do these governors and mayors

have any kind of annual strategy meetings specificaly to prepare for the inevitable hurricane season? Does Fema get a group together? Why didn't anyone in charge have a clue? One last thing. Watching the survivors walking and carrying elderly survivors through that swamp water, how many of the folks sho did get to drive out beforehand had empty seats in their cars? I know they couldn't have thought they would be the ones responsible for getting the rest out, but I'll bet they wish they had known. I hope this is part of whatever comes out of this mess.

[Barack_America]

6. You're right, it takes coordination and I believe that it should...

begin from the top-down. Many countries have mass evacuation plans that are coordinated on the federal and local level. The problem with our evacuations today is that

1). We have no idea who can evacuate themselves and who can't
2). We have no coordinated means to get those people out

[ThoughtCriminal]

3. Yes

And, and since it involves coordinating across state lines and massive resources it will be impossible without the Feds managing the plans.

[Barack_America]

4. Thank you. I agree wholeheartedly...

It's a simply mind-boggling strategic problem, but one that needs to be solved nonetheless. I'm sick of politicians passing problems they don't want to handle down to local officials who don't have the capability to handle them!

[jody]

5. Mayor first assisted by a Governor augmented by the President as

the situation grows beyond the resources at each level. :shrug:

[Barack_America]

7. But if you only have 24hrs can you make all those requests?? nt

[jody]

8. Not without a plan. In the NO-Katrina case, the plan was criminally

inadequate. :puke:

ON EDIT ADD: And impossible to execute because of lack of resources.

[Silverhair]

9. Some cities simply can NOT be evacuated rapidly.

New Orleans is one of them. The problem is geography. There aren't many exits from N.O. area.

Emptying N.O. is like trying to get a huge crowd to exit rapidly through a few small doors.

[Nikia]

10. Perhaps, every city should have an evacuation plan

Larger cities should be divided into smaller areas of no more than a couple thousand people. There should be a small committee of residents responsible for the evacuation as well as a larger committee to coordinate on a larger scale. The committee should determine how many residents would be able to flee in private vehicles and if they could take other passengers. They would then determine how many buses that they would need for those unable to take private vehicles. The committee would be responsible for making sure that everyone had left before the last bus left. I have heard that an efficient way of doing this is by marking doors.
Depending upon the availibility of roads compared to traffic, everyone could be on their way withing a couple of hours. In cases like, New Orleans where there is a lot of vehicles compared to available road, departure times could be coordinated as well if there is enough advanced warning, instead of immediate danger.

[Tesibria]

11. Fact Check: They HAD a plan, and they implemented it.

A. They HAD a plan - published, established. It provided -- indeed depended on (among other things):

* Help from law enforcement/traffic control (State Police, La. National Guard) from State OEP.

See http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

(ON EDIT: You have to scroll down quite a ways to get to the actual Plan).

B. They IMPLEMENTED the plan (or tried to), including TRYING to get the people without cars out - with buses.

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4667154

[jody]

12. That's interesting because "Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the

responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator."

What you show is that the NO plan places full responsibility on the mayor.

Is that what you support?

[Spazito]

15. The Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness is under

Homeland Security. This states the Mayor wors in COORDINATION with the Director, ergo, it says the opposite of what you are saying.

[jody]

17. Sorry but the link you gave says:

QUOTE
II. CONCEPT OF OPERATIONS

The Hurricane Emergency Evacuation Standard Operating Procedure is designed to deal with all case scenarios of an evacuation in response to the approach of a major hurricane towards New Orleans. It is designed to deal with the anticipation of a direct hit from a major hurricane. This includes identifying the city's present population, its projected population, identification of at-risk populations (those living outside levee protection or in storm-surge areas, floodplains, mobile homes, etc.), in order to understand the evacuation requirements. It includes identifying the transportation network, especially the carrying-capacity of proposed evacuation routes and existing or potential traffic bottlenecks or blockages, caused either by traffic congestion or natural occurrences such as rising waters. Identification of sheltering resources and the establishment of shelters and the training of shelter staff is important, as is the provision for food and other necessities to the sheltered. This preparation function is the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Preparedness.

Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator.
UNQUOTE

[Spazito]

18. I didn't give you a link but..

None the less, I will point out what you seem to be missing yet you have it in your post:

"in coordination with the Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator."

[jody]

20. Sorry, I should have said the link Tesibria gave which is

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

There is a big difference between "responsibility" and "coordination" as I'm sure you know. The difference in this case is specific in saying "responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans".

[Spazito]

21. Actually no, it means a shared responsibility when the words

"in coordination with". Those words actually mean the Mayor cannot act alone, can only act in coordination with the specified agency.

[jody]

22. I beg your pardon but it is an organizational axiom that "responsibility"

can never be delegated, only "authority" can be delegated.

I assumed you were familiar with government bureaucracy and such terms.

[Bluebear]

13. I think we're on our own after this disgrace.

When the President plays guitar during a catastrophe and his mother later says that the storm was beneficial for the survivors, is there any other conclusion? They don't care about us.

[Spazito]

14. The Mayor of Louisiana got 80% of his citizens out, sounds

like a plan to me. Have you heard of the traffic contraflow? It is part of the EVACUATION PLAN used by NO to evacuate 80% of the citizens of NO.

[Barack_America]

16. But that evacuation plan doesn't seem to cover everybody...

There's still the hospitals, elderly, etc.

I wonder does anybody know of any shelters other than the Superdome and Convention Center being opened?

[electron_blue]

19. Excellent question

It seems obvious to me that evacuation is only about giving enough warning so that the "haves" get out in time. This is immoral.