Dems have got to have an organized effort to defend the local NO officals.

[mzmolly]

I think we need a liason between the Gov/Mayor of N.O. and the media. These people are too overwhelmed with the task at hand (saving lives) to respond the the Rovian smear machine.

Now is the time for the DNC or the Democratic Governors Association or ??? to quickly get in touch with the "locals' and gather information and spread it.

Right now Bush is being let off the hook by some in the media and the people who are being scapegoated don't have the time/resources to defend themselves.

Dems need an organized effort to speak for these people - thoughts/suggestions?

[mzmolly]

1. I called the DNC with my suggestion for what it's worth.

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

2. louisanna senator can be in lead. she is ready to punish

anyone......wink

[mzmolly]

3. I contacted the DNC and the Democratic Gov association leader-

Bill Richardson. Who knows if it will do any good.

[seabeyond]

4. i emailed my texas reps and some dems this morning, also n/t

[mzmolly]

6. Thanks.

eom

[dogday]

56. Why don't I get a good feeling about Richardson?

[mzmolly]

60. He's not on the top of my list either, but he's the current head of the

Democratic Governors Association -

[Tyranny_R_US]

5. Isnt the DNC waiting until "everyone is safe" before taking any action?

[mzmolly]

7. No, Dean has spoken out against Bush in this fiasco, but the problem is

that the mayor and gov are left very vulnerable right now and by the time we do "damage control" the public will have exonerated Bush.

[Tyranny_R_US]

8. They are?

that the mayor and gov are left very vulnerable right now and by the time we do "damage control" the public will have exonerated Bush.

:wtf: are we still playing by right wing rules, if our representives sit on their asses and do nothing then come out later "the public" is going to ask where were they to begin with. If standing up for the dead,dying,homeless and poor is political suicide then so be it, we don't pay these people to protect their own political asses we pay them to have a voice and speak up for us when WE can't.

I can't believe the shit the people of both parties put up with, how can anyone win if we're being fucked by both parties?

[mzmolly]

12. I agree.

That's why I called Dean, Richardson and Blanco's office to share what they need to be doing in terms of standing up RIGHT NOW.

[Dr Fate]

10. On what TV show did Dean defend NOLA govt?- do you have the video?

Or are we talking about low traffic websites, and the Rhandi Rhodes "to the choir" interview?

[mzmolly]

11. Perhaps you can share what show he's been asked to appear on?

:eyes:

[Dr Fate]

14. I saw him on TV this summer more than Tom Cruise.

So apparently he has their booking phone numbers, and is not "banned."

Which TV shows have turned down Dean interviews?

[mzmolly]

18. Which TV shows have asked Dean to appear.

Dean doesn't get to invite himself on numerous talk shows. His job is fundraising. He's not going to grovel with various producers to defend every republican smear. And, it would not be in his schedule or position to do so. However, we do need a coordinated message and perhaps a new agency with the task of doing just that.

In the matter at hand - I have suggested we appoint a spokesperson for the locals officials in LA. When we have a spokes person we can notify the media that this person is our the spokes person for Nagin/Blanco and move forward.

[Dr Fate]

20. "Hello? Wolf? Howard Dean Speaking. I 'd like to be on your show."

Wow-that was hard- I must be a rocket scientist.

Has Dean or any "Star" Democrat ever made the charge that they were denied access to interview shows?

What is Hilary's excuse? Kerry? I cant imagine any interview show turning down all of these guaranteed ratings.

[mzmolly]

23. If he spent every moment of his time calling talk shows demanding an

appearance he'd have little time for fund raising - which he was hired to do.

What's Naders excuse? Have you heard from him or Cobb or ???

The media will let Nader bitch later when he gets to point fingers before the election - but beyond that you won't hear much from him on national TV - why is that?

[Dr Fate]

33. He would raise more money in 5 seconds if he called Bush a "liar" on TV

than he has raised all year.

Nader? Who gives a crap what he says. I'm a Democrat.

[mzmolly]

35. Good we agree on the third party candidates.

BTW, Dean has called Bush a liar on several occassions.

If you recall General Clark and John Edwards have both spoken out against the feds, none of them are invited to comment and Clark works for FAUX for gosh sakes. If they wanted to they could have him comment almost constantly, they chose not to because they don't want to forward the agenda of "truth" they want to spin.

[Dr Fate]

36. Dean has called Republicans "liars" about the hurricane response?

On which TV show did this happen?

[mzmolly]

38. I think we've established the liars bit.

As for the media: THIS is what I'm talking about.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2070765

[Dr Fate]

39. No, we have not. Show me the money. When did Dean call Bush a liar on TV?

???

[mzmolly]

43. On many occassions.

Sorry I don't have video clips at my immediate disposal. :eyes:

[Dr Fate]

45. How about a transcript then. And we are still talking about the hurricane.

I dont mean somthing he said at a campaign stop 2 years ago.

What has he said on TV at all about Bush's Katrina lies?

[mzmolly]

50. Why do you demand Dean appear on TV?

He made a formal statement and his office said he is holding a press conference today or tomorrow. The media will be notified. Whether or not the media airs this conference remains to be seen. I won't hold my breath.

[Dr Fate]

52. Because it is how almost 100% of people get their info.

But you have your "out" and excuses lined up:

"Oh well he issued a statement- he had a press conference- no one showed it..."

BS- he needs to go on TV interview shows where they cant ignore him, and say it to their faces.

[mzmolly]

57. Why Dean? Why Hilary?

Why does the DNC chair or a specific senator need to go on TV and speak out regarding hurricane Katrina? Dean said long ago he's not the party spokes person. What we need someone like Bill Richardson (Democratic Governors Association) to counter the spin. Or we need to appoint a spokes person to do so. Someone who's on top of all the issues surrounding this and can dedicate a lot of time.

[Dr Fate]

59. Because they are FAMOUS, quotable and have media access...

...and because they are supposed to be the LEADERS.

Why do we want low level congressmen that no one has heard of to be the only ones telling the truth about Bush on TV?

[mzmolly]

61. I'd say Jackson, Sharpton and even Cummings are also very well known.

And they are not the ONLY ones telling the truth.

[Dr Fate]

66. So who is stopping the others then?

???

[mzmolly]

68. The people who decide Sharpton is going to be the Dem spokes person

on a given day. I belive they are the "producers" of a given program.

[Dr Fate]

72. Who is banning Hillary, Kerry, Dean etc from interview & debate shows?

???

[mzmolly]

73. You keep asking the same tired questions.

I've address this over and over again.

[Dr Fate]

77. No, you just offer up the same tired excuses & conspiracies.

I've SEEN then ON TV plenty of times, with my OWN EYES- so I know they are not "banned."

[mzmolly]

80. I never said they were "banned." I have said they are not desirable

in promoting the agenda of those who own/control the media Dr. Fate. What the media does at time is have Dems who they've marginalized on their shows to represent us.

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/owners.html

One of the most important things Dean said in his campaign is that he intended to break up media monopoly, and then the media took him out with the so called "scream speech." They hold much more power then many realize.

[Dr Fate]

81. I follow David Brock weekly- mostly from Franken...

...and he has never mentioned Kerry, Dean, Hillary, Obama, etc being refused interviews or slots on debate shows.

I realize what the the media does- I also know that many use it as a standby defense for when some DEM is too timid to speak out.

[Dr Fate]

41. DEMS can go on TV and speak up about that if they choose.

No one is banning them that I've seen proof of.

[mzmolly]

44. I saw lots of DEMS. SHARPTON, JACKSON, CUMMINGS and more.

Why are we marginalizing African American Democrats?

[Dr Fate]

46. Great point-so why cant Kerry, Obama, Hill & Dean do it?

Have they been "banned" or somthing?

[mzmolly]

48. No because people like you and those in the media continually marginalize

Sharpton and Jackson and others, so this way the media appears to be "fair" and people say "where are all the democrats" at the same time.

See how that works. You forgot that Sharpton - Jackson and Cummings were Democrats apparently? They have been all over the media.

[Dr Fate]

49. Bullshit. I cheer for them and BEG white DEMs to act like them.

For instance-I BEGGED white DEMs like Dean & Kerry to support Conyer's DSM hearings- all NO SHOWS. They refused to talk about it on their TV appearances too- Dean did mention it once of about 1o interviews- about 2 & 1/2 weeks after the hearings.

Other than that, all they did was write fucking letters.

So now it's all Dr Fate's fault- yeah -right.

The excuses get more & more desperate.

[mzmolly]

53. Your flattering yourself a bit.

All YOUR fault? No, you just have to be aware of how the media operates. When Dems put statements on the record, the media has access and generally it's up to producers to decide what the flavor of a program is going to be. Often times they have people that stand by ready to comment in times like this aka Sharpton, Jackson etc.

We have to give them credit and stop asking where Democrats are. But again we do need an organized message - I'm sure on that we agree.

[Dr Fate]

55. Who is banning Hillary, Kerry, Dean etc from interview & debate shows?

They can call these shows and get booked.

[mzmolly]

58. What's your particular facination with Hilary and Dean?

Why do you limit our ability to speak out to these two Democrats?

[Dr Fate]

62. self delete

mmm

[Dr Fate]

63. ,...

nnn

[Dr Fate]

65. I also single out Kerry and Obama- because people KNOW them.

They are household names.

That is why advertisers hire "stars" to pitch products.

This is not rocket science.

[mzmolly]

67. But what we have to realize is if we demand Kerry and Hilary and Dean

be THE spokes people for every Rovian shit fest, they'd not have time to do their jobs as elected officals.

I think the key is an organized message, I don't care who promotes it. I'd like to see our talking points blasted by every Dem who gets an ounce of media attention.

[Dr Fate]

69. Right- so what is it that we disagree on?

Shoot- I agree with that last statement.

I disagree with you about them not having enough time- they need to make fucking time- the average Americican works 2 jobs.

[Dr Fate]

70. Right- so what is it that we disagree on?

Shoot- I agree with that last statement.

I disagree with you about them not having enough time- they need to make fucking time- the average Americican works 2 jobs.

[mzmolly]

74. Well we'll leave it at that.

I presume if my second point was in tact we'd not be having this discussion anyhow.

:hi:

[Dr Fate]

9. Translation: Lay low until Karl Rove defines all the issues.

And then issue some strong statements on low-traffic websites that only donors see.

[mzmolly]

13. Which is the point of my thread. If we want to see things happen we

have to let "them" know what it is we would like.

I have done so, you?

[Dr Fate]

16. Only about a MILLION TIMES.

I have begged, begged & begged for them to go ON TV and start telling the truth about Bush-since 2002. I called a nice man at the DNC yesterday- he told me he had heard this all day long- so they know.

They just dont seem to have it in them- I guess they are all black-mailed.

Why do they still need more letters from Dr Fate to BEG them to counter attack LIARS who are attacking fellow DEM leaders?

[mzmolly]

17. We have to understand why it's so important to take back the media.

The reason we want to split up big media monopoly is because THEY control the message.

[Dr Fate]

19. Who is stopping Dean, Kerry, Hillary, Obama, etc. from speaking up on TV?

We could at least do THAT until we regain control of the media 20 years or whatever.

We need DEMs with media access ON TV refuting the lies NOW- we cant wait until we buy out the media or whatever.

[mzmolly]

24. Who's stopping independents from speaking out?

All these Dems are speaking out - they have not been invited to comment on local talk shows however.

[Dr Fate]

31. They need to fucking invite themselves. Cut out the excuses.

They can ask to get booked on TV shows- especially the famous ones like kerry, Hillary & Dean.

[mzmolly]

34. LOL. As I said, why can't Nader or Camejo call and get "booked?"

Hilary and Dean have jobs to do, I doubt they can muscle their way into any TV show they wish to. What seems to fail you is that the media has an agenda. Their agenda is likely not the same as OURS.

However, if we designate someone to speak on behalf of the locals we can accomplish what we both desire by having this person speak when ever and where ever they will let them.

[Dr Fate]

37. Wrong- U.S. Senators can request time on those shows.

And if they are being turned down, they need to speak up and say so.

Can you show me where top DEMs have made the charge that they cant get on TV interview shows?

And WTF does Nader, etc have to do with this?

[mzmolly]

40. As I said they have JOBS they can't run around on damage control for

every piece of shit propaganda mission that Rove shoves down the throats of America. But, what we do need is an organized message that is funneled to ALL reps at every level when something like this happens so that we too - can stay on message.

[Dr Fate]

42. Republicans seem to find time to do it to us.

Your 1st excuse was that they were "banned"- now it's "they dont have time."

[mzmolly]

47. It's a bit of both.

Do you realize or not that the media has an agenda? Do you also realize that Dems have jobs to do. They don't 1800 talk show host around the world and several TV networks the way the R's do. We also don't have an organized message which we DO need to address.

However as I said DEMOCRATS have made appearances on TV, but Dean and Hilary are apparently all that counts ey?

[Dr Fate]

51. We need "star", quoatable, house hold name Democrats...

...that people have heard of, and that media people are likely to quote & repeat.

We need EVERYONE saying these things, not just the Black Caucus- why is that such a bad idea?

[mzmolly]

64. I don't know anyone who hasn't heard of Sharpton and Jackson.

I think they are as well known as Dean. Not Hilary but Dean. And we can't expect Hilary to do it all because she's the former first lady.

[Dr Fate]

71. I do expect Hillary to tell the truth about Bush- 1st lady or not.

n/t

[mzmolly]

75. She issued a statement saying Bush hosed FEMA.

It was posted here earlier. I too expect her to tell the truth, but my point was she's notable because she's the former first lady and she is NO MORE required to be truthful then any other Democrat. I expect them all to tell the truth and to get out our dang message. The question is what is the message this week?

[Dr Fate]

78. People dont get their Hurricane news from DU- they get news from "the TV."

She needs to go on TV and talak abouthis- or else no one will know she said it.

I'm tired of DEMs "issueing statements"- they need to skip the "issueing" part and SAY IT ON TV.

[mzmolly]

79. Okey dokey Dr. Fate.

:hi:

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. Yes, we all need to do whatever we can

to support these people.

[txaslftist]

21. I disagree.

Find out what went wrong at ALL levels, affix blame where it belongs, let the chips fall where they may.

I know it is instinctive to leap to the defense of Dems in trouble, and I totally have that instinct, too. But if the mayor made mistakes and if Blanco made mistakes, we have to acknowledge them, too.

We know the Roves will lie, distort, smear, and do anything else they can to desperately hold onto their base of ignorant dumbfuck freepers. We have to be better than that.

Do we want to be Roves or Feingolds?

[mzmolly]

25. Frankly, that's a given. I don't feel we have to find out what went wrong

IT'S OBVIOUS, Blanco and Nagin asked for help, the President put the direction of disaster relief under the umbrella of Federal jurisdiction on 8/26:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

That's what went wrong. I am not about to dismiss legit critique of local officials but for now they are being scapegoated for not taking matters into their own hands (after Bush took formal responsibility) in a disaster larger than we've ever known. It's ridiculous.

[One_Life_To_Give]

27. Failures at multiple levels

Just because FEMA *ucked up, doesn't mean the state didn't make mistakes. If either one had been on the ball. The response would have been ten times better.

[mzmolly]

30. Nor does it mean the state did f*ck up. And from what I gather they did

what they were supposed to.

[One_Life_To_Give]

32. Never seen such poor OpCon

That was the worst case of unity of command I can think of. If it wasn't a La. screwup. Then hopefully we have recordings of days of repeated calls to FEMA about the complete lack of Command.
(And Governor should have stepped in anyway. IMHO)

[redtapeblues]

22. I don't know about that,

Bush has been getting nailed pretty good.

As for the local officials -- if they screwed up, let the chips fall where they may.

[mzmolly]

26. The locals asked for help from the Feds and Bush took formal

control on 8/26

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

Bush F-ed up - there is no doubt.

Welcome to DU.

[Zodiak]

28. I think...

that the above poster is referring to the newest tidbits I heard today coming from the RW talk shows. Air America was pre-empted by a baseball game today, and so I tried to flip to NPR. I went to the wrong station and Laura Ingram was on (I assume that was here...Laura was the host). Anyways, they had some RW "researcher" on her show talking ad infinitum about how the local and state governments dealt with levee money and what priority the state and local gov't put on the levee.

In the end, there was a reference to money taken out of levee money to make a fountain and something about a referendum vote rejected by the population. The whole thrust of it was that Louisianna is some backwoods welfare state with a sense of entitlement and an over-reliance on the federal government. Typical RW bullshit, but I think that their crappy "research" needs to be aired here so we can preempt these arguments for the water cooloer.

There is one good thing these guys are good at, and it is staying on message and lying through their teeth. Trust me...the volume of fecal matter coming from the RW is geometrically increasing.

[mzmolly]

29. Exactly and we also need to stay on message to counter this stuff.

I don't know about the levee money, but I do know yesterday they were faulting the locals for not properly evacuating people on their own.

All of their finger pointing does not deal with the fact that the feds left thousands of citizens starving and vulnerable after a national disaster. Osama could have blown up the levee system, the end result would have been the same.

Thanks for the info. I think it's good to keep up on their nauseating talking points.

[Zodiak]

76. sorry the info wasn't more complete

It was delivered laundry-list style, so there was little time to reflect on the points they were making. Machine-gun delivery always gets my hackles up, because machine-gun delivery is the tool of a person who has little substance behind his arguments.

And I agree...this issue is not about who caused the levee to break, it is who had the ball in his court and balked.

[im10ashus]

54. My thoughts/suggestions:

Keep writing the letters to your representatives and editors of the local papers. Talk about it. Let your opinions be heard.