Republicans planning on shoving private accounts thru back door

[CatWoman]

via procedural vote:

I wish someone in the Democratic leadership would pay attention to this. According to the Washington bureau chief of the Dallas Morning News, the Republicans plan to push private accounts through the back door on a procedural vote:


Congressional Republicans, persisting in hopes of enacting some form of private Social Security option despite opposition from the public and the Democrats, are considering the same kind of maneuver that enabled them to pass a controversial Medicare drug bill two years ago.

That’s the clear signal from key GOP congressional leaders and chief White House strategist Karl Rove, one of the main architects of the Social Security proposal that President Bush made his top 2005 priority.

Mr. Rove, speaking to college students and lobbyists before Congress went on its current recess, said the House would act next month and the Senate soon after, according to the congressional newspaper The Hill .

And Rep. Bill Thomas, R-Calif., chairman of the Ways and Means Committee and one of his party’s canniest operatives, said without giving details that his panel would introduce a retirement security bill in September. <...>

Because the Senate had passed a similar bill, Republicans could take the measure to a Senate-House conference. By excluding most Democrats from any role, they crafted the kind of bill they wanted in the first place.

That would appear to be their hope for private Social Security accounts – pass a bill in the House authorizing private accounts, accept any Social Security vehicle in the Senate that gets the issue to conference and write a final version letting the White House proclaim success.

In recent weeks, various members have floated several different versions that could form the basis of a GOP bill.

Some House Republicans, including Rep. Sam Johnson of Plano, would use Social Security’s current surpluses for private accounts, rather than to curb the overall budget deficit. But that not only would fail to address the system’s solvency, it also is likely to make the budget situation worse.


http://susiemadrak.com/2005/09/07/09/22/under-cover/

[katsy]

1. Interesting & frightening.

<<<< "Congressional Republicans, persisting in hopes of enacting some form of private Social Security option DESPITE OPPOSITION FROM THE PUBLIC and the Democrats, are considering the same kind of maneuver that enabled them to pass a controversial Medicare drug bill two years ago." >>>>


What does that say? Why would the gop push this regardless of what the public wants? Do they have a death wish and never want to win another election?

[Ms. Clio]

2. They don't plan on losing any more elections n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. BINGO!

:grr: We are well and truly fucked!

[katsy]

4. That's what I was afraid of. n/t

[bearfan454]

6. You are exactly right I am sad to say.

If the Democrats don't stand up and fight back about diebold then we are finished.

[me b zola]

42. Dems have been ignoring the elephant in the room

How many of them will have to be Diebolded out of office before they wake up.

Our democracy is all but gone. The Constitution is in the toilet.

The US will not survive another Diebold/election cycle.

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. I thought that Medicare drug bill vote was under investigation?

[Just Me]

5. They are fucking bent upon repealing an entire century of progress!!!

Good-bye United States of America. :hi: Hello Corporate States of Feudalism. :grr:

[bananas]

7. please kick and nominate

this is important

[smartvoter]

9. nominated nt

[Just Me]

11. oops,....nominated!!!

:kick:

[durablend]

8. I KNEW IT!!!

They don't care WHO they piss off anymore.

Once the money is gone (which is almost certain), expect them to kill SS altogether.

[Cleita]

10. Well, the Medicare Prescription Drug bill was such a success

:sarcasm: for the pharma companies anyway that you baby boomers better get busy blocking anything they might do to Social Security. They are just so greedy that they can't leave any money lying around alone even though they don't need it.

[elperromagico]

12. And if the Democrats had any sense, they could use that

as an issue with which to hammer the Republicans next fall.

I won't hold my breath.

[durablend]

13. Um, next fall is TOO LATE

If they don't kill this NOW, the Democratic party is DEAD as far as I'm concerned.

[elperromagico]

29. All right then. What do you expect them to do NOW?

If the GOP pushes this through by procedural maneuvering, what exactly do you expect the Democrats to do?

All the time on here, I see people saying, "If the Democrats don't do something about this, I'm giving up on them." My response is: What do you expect them to do? They're in the minority in both houses of Congress and they've lost the White House. They can't kill any idea the Republicans cook up unless a few Republicans agree to help them.

You say the Democratic Party will be dead to you if they don't do something now. I've got news for you. In terms of wielding real power in Congress, the Democratic Party is dead right now.

[Iowa]

30. Excuses, excuses, excuses...

This is exactly the type of hand-wringing, sissified, cry-baby approach that emboldens the right. The Dems are powerless, you say? They can't do anything, you say? What a load of bull! This type of lay-down-and-die, defeatist, hand-wringing attitude brings Al Pacino to mind: "...IF I WERE THE MAN I WAS FIVE YEARS AGO, I'D TAKE A FLAMETHROWER TO THIS PLACE!...".

What do we expect them to do? I'll tell you what we expect them to do. We expect them to fight like hell and use the considerable power at their disposal. We have a mentally deficient president with approval ratings in the crapper, and we have a Congress that is little more than a corporate "errand-boy" with even worse approval ratings. We expect the Dems to get their shit together and seize opportunities - ANY of the many missed opportunities handed to them on a silver platter - to undermine and weaken the neocon agenda, instead of irrelevant blather about video games and other nonsense. We expect them to use words like "corruption", and "criminal", and "impeachment" at every opportunity in an effort to move the national psyche a little further in that direction. We expect them to display genuine anger and outrage when they speak about the Republican agenda.

What can we expect them to do, you ask? We can expect them to do what other courageous Americans are doing. We shouldn't need to rely solely on Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, Jon Stewart, and other private citizens to carry the ball while most of our Dem elected representatives hide in their offices until it's safe to come out. We shouldn't need to rely upon overseas politicians like George Galloway to attack and humiliate the cancer that has seized control of our government. We shouldn't need to see John Conyers stuffed into a tiny room, with only a very few colleagues who had the guts to show up to discuss the DSM. We shouldn't need to endure Dems who can feel free to vote for CAFTA without severe retribution from the rest of the party.

What do we expect them to do? We expect them to speak out about stolen elections, Diebold, the destruction of our right to vote, and the destruction of our civil rights. We expect them to use words like fascism. We expect them to to display courage, a fighting spirit, creativity, brains, ruthlessness, and a determination to pound the RW agenda into the dirt. We expect charismatic leadership based upon a heartfelt passion for a progressive agenda. We expect them to be good at their jobs; to be able to ignite a national passion for an agenda that serves the people, and if they aren't up to that, we expect them to get the hell out of the way so better people can step up.

If they continue down the same do-nothing path, they are finished. But it sure as hell won't be because their hands were tied; it will be because they just couldn't overcome their laziness, their cowardice, their complacency, and their failure to seize the mantle and run with it. It will be because they simply were not up to the job we entrusted them to do. And if they drop the ball on Social Security without the fight of their lives, they deserve to be finished, and to live the rest of their lives in shame for their failure to use all of the power that was within their grasp.

I'm sick of hearing excuses for these slackers. They had better not drop the ball on Social Security without the fight of their lives! No excuses will be accepted. None!

[ReadTomPaine]

32. Well said. n/t

[Iowa]

50. Thanks ReadTomPaine.

[elperromagico]

34. So the Democrats should just react to everything the Republicans do?

Yeah, that's not playing into the Republicans' hands at all.

If we want to destroy the Republicans, we have to destroy their ideas. You do that by presenting better ideas.

I'm sick of hearing "Bush has a bad idea." I want to hear, "We have a good idea. Here it is."

We all know what the Republican agenda is. What is the progressive alternative? If it's nothing but "the Republican agenda is bad and it makes us angry," we're going to keep getting our asses handed to us at the polls.

[Iowa]

51. Do you even bother to read posts before reacting?

Of course there must be a progressive alternative! What do you think this means:

"...We expect charismatic leadership based upon a heartfelt passion for a progressive agenda. We expect them to be good at their jobs; to be able to ignite a national passion for an agenda that serves the people...".

That being said, what I'm saying and what you appear to be saying are two very different things. While it's true that there must be (and has been) a progressive alternative, the Republicans sure as hell aren't winning because they have better ideas than progressives. The republican agenda is a disaster for 99% of voters. They win because they have skillfully undermined liberal values despite the fact that our agenda, on its merits, trounces theirs in every respect. This most certainly is not about who has better ideas for the country, because if it were, our side would never lose. This is about our side's abject failure to sell a FAR superior agenda to a largely clueless, easily manipulated portion of the populace, and their side's ability to sell a grossly inferior agenda to the same crowd. And they didn't stop at closing the sale; they created a whole passel of rabid zealots who have enthusiastically bought in to their own demise with an almost supernatural fervor. This is about our side's failure to generate enough passion to win. And sometimes it's about our side's willingness to sell out. If you think the road to victory is to sign on to a better health care program, or to get behind a plan to pull out of Iraq before the other side, I'm afraid you're in for a very big disappointment. The progressive agenda was not derailed on the basis of merit.

Furthermore, I reject outright the republican lie that progressives present no alternatives. It is progressives who made this country what it is (or used to be). It is progressives who created conditions that led to the existence of a huge middle class, a safety net, and the opportunity for a decent life for everyone, without regard to race, disability, religion, or gender. It was progressives who held corporations at bay for several generations; fighting to protect our air, our water, our workplace safety, our leisure time (via the 40 hour work-week), our product safety, and who fought to eliminate the scourge of discrimination. It was progressives who built a public education system and then went on to integrate our schools, thereby pulling millions out of poverty and making this country a great economic power. It was progressives who created Social Security, a hugely successful program that has virtually eliminated abject poverty in old age, and a program that is the subject of this thread.

The Republican claim that progressives lack alternatives is just one more in a long list of republican lies that deserves to be crushed. The results of progressive ideas are all around us; they impact our lives every single day. Our side's willingness to buy in to the lie leaves us completely adrift and aimless - or worse, floundering around trying to reinvent ourselves by manufacturing "new" ideas simply for the sake of appearing "new". And what has it brought us besides spawning the bland, bastardized, dem-repub, abomination called the DLC? The struggle between the common man and the oligarchy is as old as history - and the underlying themes have not changed - there's nothing new here. This isn't about new ideas and old ideas; it's about the age old struggle between the privileged class, and the rest of us. And it's about the failure of our representatives to win with the winning hand they were dealt. We have right on our side. That's powerful. We even have self-interest on our side! The voters win when we win, and they lose when we lose. Their side offers nothing but misery for 99% of the population. Yet despite these huge advantages, we lose. We lose because of incompetent execution, cowardice, complacency, a lack of creativity, and failure to fight like real peoples' lives depended on it. And we lose because our representatives are more concerned about civility and propriety than the fate of the people of this country. No, it's not a lack of good ideas that keeps us down, nor is it an abundance of good ideas that propels the other side. It's the lack of enough representatives, the likes of George Galloway, who have both the skills and the passion to blow the opposition out of the water.

The progressive agenda of the past still applys today. It is powerful. It is good. It is honest. It is tested. It works. It was responsible for the best times the world has ever seen. Yet the politicians on our side have stood by impotently and let the neocons trash it. So now we need to rehabilitate it; to start undoing the damage that has been done. And we need to grind the republican agenda into the dirt where it belongs. We need smart, courageous, aggressive, charismatic, people who have what it takes to trash the garbage the republicans are spewing, while simultaneously re-igniting a national passion for a progressive agenda that actually serves the people. Far too many of our representatives have failed us. Their performance has been so breathtakingly incompetent that it defies description. If their personal failings (or their outright complicity) results in the loss of Social Security as we know it, they should be tossed into the trash-bin of history as the pathetic disgraces they have shown themselves to be.

This has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of progressive alternatives. Just look around you. Much of the good you see would not exist were it not for liberal ideas. And saving what's left of it is one damned worthy alternative.

[elperromagico]

56. I read your whole post, thank you.

Did you read mine?

I've never said that the Republicans have better ideas. I've said they have ideas and know how to present them. You and I both know they're terrible ideas. That's beside the point. Joe Average steps into the voting booth thinking that the Republicans have ideas for America.

Let's take the original subject of this thread (Social Security) as an example. Bush went around the country, convincing people that their Social Security checks would be in jeopardy if something wasn't done. Polling bears this out; a great many Americans think we are facing a Social Security crisis.

Bush presented an age-old GOP idea: privatization. It's a bad idea and would likely bankrupt Social Security faster. Thus far, his proposal has failed to convince.

But it is a proposal.

What was the Democratic counterproposal? "Leave Social Security alone."

The American people trust the Democrats on Social Security far more than they do the Republicans. Social Security is regarded as a Democratic program; if there is a problem with it -- real or imagined -- the American people look to Democrats to address it.

But if all the Democrats can say is "Do nothing," the American people will turn to the Republicans. At the very least, they have an idea.

The Democrats could score points on Social Security if they would present some unified alternative to Bush's Social Security plan, whether it's lifting the salary cap on payroll taxes and making the upper classes pay their fair share or by some other means. It might fail but at least it would be an idea we could put before the American people.

I'm as sick as you of hearing that "the Democrats have no ideas." But there is a reason for it; people in positions of leadership within the party aren't presenting ideas. Of course there is a progressive agenda but it doesn't mean jack if nobody in a position of leadership is presenting it.

I'll tell you what I'd like to see from our party leaders. I'd like to see them function like they're in the majority. Present ideas, propose bills. If Bush's ideas are lousy, put up solid alternatives and counter the Bush proposals in every area.

Make the Republicans vote against saving Social Security. Make the Republicans vote against improving education. Make the Republicans vote against balancing the budget and reducing the deficit. Make the Republicans vote against a voting rights amendment to the Constitution. Make the Republicans vote against equal pay for women. Make the Republicans vote against every progressive idea we can throw at them. Then hammer them like hell on their votes and attack them at every turn for their hypocrisy.

The function of an opposition party is not merely to respond to the actions of the majority party; it is to present ideas in opposition to the majority party.

I'm convinced, Iowa, that you and I don't really disagree that much on this matter. We simply have vastly different ways of stating our ideas.

[newswolf56]

14. One of the cornerstones of the Bush Plan for America...

is to totally destroy the legacy of the New Deal, either by wiping out the social safety net or turning the few remaining programs left intact into profit centers for the oligarchy. Hence the Bush Medicare Prescription Drug Lord Benefit, which requires the government to pay maximum retail for prescription drugs and thereby provides the prescription-drug fat-cats with the biggest windfall profit in history. Social Security "reform" is more of the same: another windfall -- as big or bigger -- for the tycoons of Wall Street.

The flip side of this same coin is deliberately worsening the conditions of poverty to make them as horrific -- and as deadly -- as possible. Poverty thus becomes a flail by which the oligarchy flogs all the rest of us into ever more frenzied competition in the capitalist rat-race. The result of this flogging is a working class too terrified and too desperate to resist oppression: exactly what we see already, whether in the Third World or in New Orleans.

[Iowa]

52. Wow! Deadly post, newswolf56...

You absolutely nailed it!

[BlueJac]

15. We need to...

take this fucking country back before it is to God damn late.


Time to march on Washington D.C.:wtf:

[FreedomAngel82]

20. Good luck hon

Do you think they're going to listen to you? Ha! You think a march is going to mean anything to them? Look at the marches that was held before Iraq. Enough proof there.

[nicknameless]

16. So the repugs are looting again, or rather, FINDING our money

They obviously don't even care anymore what anyone thinks of them.
Now they're committing their crimes out in the open.
It's as though they know they can't be voted out of office for what they're doing.

Voter-verified paper ballots NOW!

recommended.

[cthrumatrix]

17. IF Dems were INTERESTED they would be Warning -- BUT they are quiet?

[nicknameless]

18. Wonder how many of them are aware of it.

So much of what the Repugs do is in secret, with Dems locked out.
It's certainly worth hammering our Dem. leaders over NOW.
Make them aware of it, and demand that they protect our future, instead of pissing it away like they did on the Medical vote.

[FreedomAngel82]

19. I hate these people!

They can't do anything without lying, stealing or cheating while hiding behind the Bible!! I HATE THEM! They've stolen everything already and now they want my Social Security! Damn greedy assholes!

[gulfcoastliberal]

21. RIP DNC

And the DLC assumes the mantle of the "new fascists" oops I mean "new democrats".

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Personal Hurricane Accounts

[Just Me]

48. .

wow

[B Calm]

23. The filthy bastards must be stopped! Nominated

[bearfan454]

24. NO WAY!

The Dems better not let this through. Lurking freepers check this out:

I want my GUARANTEED GOVERNMENT BENEFIT. Once I become of age I am going to make the government PAY ME EVERY MONTH FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER.

[PatrioticLeftie]

25. God Damn them!

I am so sick of them forcing their fascism down everyone's throats. What's worse is that there are people cheering these bastards on! I am so pissed off!

[onenote]

26. self delete

[onenote]

27. i hope they're stupid enough to try

Since this is a dupe of a thread on the General Discussion/Politics forum, I'll just link to my comments posted there:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2070890&mesg_id=2070935

onenote

[TheModernTerrorist]

31. maybe all Repukes

are simply just anarchists in expensive suits?

just a thought :shrug:

sidenote: do you think they're just trying to bring about Armaggeddon??????? maybe???????? I dunno.....

[zippy890]

33. we have to watch out for this kind of thing

:dem:

[Neecy]

35. stunning....

This scam is overwhelmingly opposed by the American people, but they're going to ram it down our throats anyway.

They seem to forget that they rule by the consent of the governed - but I guess when you own the voting machines, consent is no longer a factor. Or so they think - people won't take this.

[newyawker99]

36. kick

:kick:

[sam sarrha]

37. can/will the Democrats walk out to prevent a Quram and stop that vote.!!

it worked in Texas

[imperialismispasse]

38. If theres a tragedy they will always exploit it for there own ends

I was waiting to see what they would push through while the rest of the country is looking away.

[Just Me]

41. Yep. They are quick to exploit their own people.

Bloody, greedy, bastards!!! :grr:

[napi21]

39. If the Dems can't stop this, won't it still work out for us if none

of us, and certainly, the majority of Americans who hate the private accounts, just don't sign up for the program?

That's the problem they're having with their stupid drug bill that they forced through in the wee hours of the morning! almost NOBODY is sigining up for it! Last I hears, the ins. companies have said, if there isn't a big enough response to the programs, they're backing out of it completely!

Won't that same thing work with private accounts?

[Iowa]

54. I don't think so...

My understanding is that benefits would be cut for ALL under 55, whether one chooses to use private accounts or not. It's also my understanding that they plan to tie benefits to income somehow, which would undermine the widespread support the program has now. Plus, I believe they're trying to change the benefit formula so it's tied to the CPI during the earning years, instead of using the more favorable wage growth formula. This would hit young people especially hard, but so few would understand what they're doing that they might be able to pull it off on the sly. It would be years before many people would even realize what they had done. Actually, I don't think they even have a definite plan, but what I have seen of the ideas they've floated leads me to believe that ALL would be impacted rather significantly. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[opihimoimoi]

40. Because we are so fractured, the Pubs get away with a lotta shit

:hi:

[Nikki Stone 1]

43. Pushing through something that everyone opposes---is that the democracy we

are spreading?

[Just Me]

44. I'm sorry, Nikki. We are no longer living in anything resembling,...

,...a democracy. We are living under the rule of a corporatocracy. x(

[Armstead]

45. "We ned Social Security reform because of Katrina"

From the MoJo Blog:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2005/09/ev...

Every Crisis an Opportunity
It's an old business myth that the Chinese character for "crisis" combines the characters for "danger" and "opportunity." It doesn't. But I'm not sure anyone's told the Bush administration, judging from this little tidbit in CongressDaily today: "White House spokesman Trent Duffy asserted that the vast spending that would be required to address the hurricane's impact adds to the need to change Social Security, which threatens to strain the budget in coming years." Ah yes, despite the fact that privatization that would add trillions to the deficit in the short term, at a time when Katrina will already add $100 billion or more to the deficit this year, the time for privatization is now, obviously, in the wake of disaster. Um, no.

[redtapeblues]

46. This may be a blessing in disguise

Do you want this administration to be in charge of your SS account?

[MisterP]

53. every single instance of privatization since WWII

results in vastly increased control of people by corporations: the corporations that ARE this administration will benefit the most. Instead of taking it out of Bush's hands, privatization would take Social Security out of the hands of the people, who have no voice in corporations.

[redtapeblues]

55. Actually, I don’t figure that I’ll be receiving SS anyway,

so what difference does it make? But if the account actually has my name on it, perhaps I it will be easier to keep these clowns from stealing it.

[Just Me]

47. It's hard work funneling public wealth into rich, white men's pockets.

:grr:

[Nothing Without Hope]

49. There's so much money, THEY WILL NOT GIVE UP. It's a huge scam to

steal from the poor and middle class and give to their cronies in the investment business. You're right, we MUST MUST MUST keep our eyes wide open and not allow the "distraction" of the Katrina horrors and outrages to let them get away with this.

[annabanana]

57. our congresscritters are distracted now... WRITE THEM

It's up to us to see that this doesn't take them by surprize!!