Italy, Poland, Spain and Ireland want god and christianity mentioned in EU

[AP]

constitution. I just heard this on BBC World.

No surprises there with Ireland (and Italy, I guess), but I can't help but think that Poland, who is taking big bribes from US and General Dynamics (I believe), Spain, home of Bush's best bud forever, "Ducky" Aznar, and Italy, lead by almost a bigger fascist than Bush, and Bush good friend Sillvio Bersluconi, are just driving this wedge on the request of the Bush administration.

I honestly don't remember, but I don't think any of these countries cared about having religion become a big part of EU political philosophy from 1993 to Jan 2001. I can't imagine why they care so much now.

Incidentally, the UK is trying to keep god out of EU politics.

[mddemo]

1. no surprise here

all these nations are very catholic countries and the electorate would probuably support this.

[AP]

2. I know they're Catholic, but I don't think they cared much about this...

...before Jan 2001.

I could be wrong.

France is very Catholic too, and they don't care. The UK has a state religion, and they don't care.

[mddemo]

4. big difference

The aforementioned countries actually have a very vocal catholic population, this is seen through their politicians and laws, the UK i more a protestant country and conservative with a small C. I think it was Spain who first interfected christianity in the 80's into european politics, when they objected to some EU dictates as being against the beliefs of their people.

[AP]

7. According to BBC, there's only one mention of religion in EU charters

and it isn't the kind of thing Spain et al is asking for now. So if any country tried to interject religion, they haven't been successful, and, since the EU has made it this far, it clearly hasn't been a make or break issue.

The way the BBC was reporing today, it sounded like these three Bush-friendly countries were making a big deal about it.

I would bet that Bush is promissing them something in exchange for driving this wedge into the EU.

[Dead_Parrot]

3. I cant see it happening

It would be a u-turn for the EU. Try this...
http://www.cesnur.org/testi/EU_stat.htm
...which is a rather longwinded EU version of the 1st amendment.

"Matters governing religion, belief and conscience are not to be decided by the state, but in the individual's conscience. The role of the state is not to decide religious truth, but to promote tolerance so that people can pursue truth as individuals and in communities. Rather than endorsing any particular religion or belief, the EU endorses the notion that people shouldbe free - at any time - to have, to profess, to maintain, to adopt, and to change their own beliefs."

Edit to add snippet

[teryang]

5. Divide and conquer

This counter reaction is anathema to European democratic tradition. This is a top down development not one inspired by the masses.

[mddemo]

6. the masses

And how would one know if it wasnt the masses, i seem to remember that referendum after refterendum in Ireland voted against abortion and other laws against the teaching of the catholic church, im sure if there was a vote in Poland, SPain, Italy you would be surprised at how catholic centered the vote would be. Or is being catholic mean you are anti democratic.

[teryang]

10. Try studying the history of Europe since

...Martin Luther, then you might understand.

[AP]

8. I have to agree with this. Like I said above...

...the EU has left out religion since inception, yet the people have been going along with the EU for years. The masses seem to like the integration, and haven't cared that religion isn't part of the political mix.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Bush's best friends in Europe are now trying to exploit this wedge issue.

On BBC, the commentator actually said this could be a make or break issue for further integration.

HUH????

That's a totally new sentiment that the masses, I don't think, have ever shared.

[revcarol]

9. Believe that this was one reason that they want to keep Turkey out

of the EU, ostensibly because they're "not European enough." Read "they're mostly Muslim!!" Look it up...this is not new this week. But it IS new since Bush 2, but Turkey hasn't qualified to belong to the EU before Bush 2.

But all those former Soviet provinces that are now countries want to join, and some of them are Muslim, but are U. S. allies(we,Halliburton,are building bases there "to combat terrorism.)

So it looks as if this is a POLITICAL THING. Turkey being dissed because they failed us as a patsy, and other countries eligible early because the U. S. favors them. Not NECESSARILY a Catholic thing.

One thing is sure: this was stirred up by Bush.