I'm Giving Up Hope of Winning in 2004

[bobd]

Sorry, but I just don't see it happening. Here's the pros and cons...

PROS

1. Iraq is a mess
2. Wilson Affair
3. Reason for war was trumped up and everyone now knows it

CONS

1. Limbaugh will skate, will not be prosecuted due to his wealth and holy conservative standing, will continue to be a hero to all reich wingers. His problems will change no minds.

2. The Wilson Affair is the wrong kind of affair; it has nothing to do with illicit sex which is what the majority of the public sees as the ultimate evil. No illicit sex - it becomes "just politics".

3. The economy appears to be picking up. Bush will say it's due to his tax cuts and the "people" will believe it.

4. No more terrorist attacks (at least so far). When faced with pulling the lever for Bush vs. an "immoral" dem the "people" will use the "no more terrorist attacks" to justify pulling the lever for Bush.

5. No nomination contest in the 'thug party. They are behind the holy warrior.

6. Arnold will win in California. The media will fame it as part of the continuing Republican juggernaut and the "people" will buy it.

7. Religion. The "people" love mean-spirited religions that allows and encourages them to freely hate those unlike themselves. Why else would christianity (tm) be so popular? Ask your favorite fundamentalist how many liberal democrats are part of their congregation? I ask my brother this when he tells me that christian (tm) churches are not GOP branch offices. His answer is always, "Well, none". Duh!

8. The increase in SUV and big, shiny, macho pickup sales. We're a nation enthralled with penis measurement. It's big and turgid and Republican (see also the slathering for Ahnold).

9. The "people" themselves. Collectively we love to hate! Collectively we're white, southern, full of piss and vinegar and out to do some lynchin'. Yee Haw!

10. The media is firmly behind the 'thugs. We'll know it's not when Fox News and right-wing hate radio loses so many listeners it whithers and dies. Good luck!

OK, what will I, myself, do now that I'm givin up hope of winning?

1. Vote a straight Dem ticket.
2. Donate copiously to the Dems and my favorite candidate(s).
3. Try not to get too pissed off when talking about politics with co-workers and acquaintences so that I can rationally and calmly state why I think the current gummit is bad.

Will any of these things I'm going to do make a difference? No, But I'll do them anyway.

Bob D.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. CREPE HANGER!!! GO AWAY

[Champion Jack]

2. Nothing like a positive attitude....

[Loyal]

19. LMAO

I love that picture!

[kentuck]

3. Bobd....I think we are going to take back the WH, the House,and ....

possibly the Senate. This is going to be an election of big change, in my opinion. Left to their own devices, Repubs usually screw up so bad that they can't get their own voters to support them. It happens ever so often. I think this is going to be one of those times... :)

[Loyal]

21. I would say the Senate is much more likely

than the House. All we need is a +2 net gain in the Senate, but we need a fair number in the house. I predict that we will take back the presidency and the senate, but that the repukes will hold the house. It's better to have the senate rather than the house anyway, if we have to choose, because then we can get our nominees on the bench.

[mndemocrat_29]

28. I think we'll take back the Senate and the White House

However, I also feel that we can win back the House. If we don't at least try, Repukes are going to make even more gains and we'll be even further behind (I think we'd all be in agreement that we'd like the House back. The only way we're going to do that is by winning more seats). I think that if we make big gains in 2004 (which I see happening), we can either win back the House in 2004 or be on track to winning it in 2006.

[Loyal]

31. Yeah, sounds good to me

n/t

[HFishbine]

32. The Senate?

I don't see this. Admitedly, I may be unaware of some reason for optomism, but we are really 3 down, not 2, now that Edwards has decided not to run for re-election. This puts NC back into play and it's very much a toss up.

So, what are the three states that will switch from republican to democratic?

[mndemocrat_29]

54. We aren't really down anything

I count Illinois as a definite +1 for the Democrats. Admittedly, between the possible five open seats in the South, we're probably down one, but remember: Alaska could very easily go to the Democrats (Knowles vs. Murkowski) and Pennsylvania, due to the presidential year and us having a very good candidate, could fall into our category. Also, I think that we'll end up keeping many of our Senate seats in the South because we are actually focused on keeping them (unlike 2002 when we basically ignored seats like Tennessee and South Carolina).

[ButterflyBlood]

57. NC was always in play

Edwards was hardly a shoo-in.

[LittleApple81]

4. How depressing... and I was feeling upbeat up to a moment ago.

I have read analyses of the "economic recovery" and it is not such thing without real jobs. Bush had promised 300,000 jobs a month by now and that has not materialized.

The US won't survive 4 more years of misAdministration.

But knowing the American people, him calling his wife a lump in the bed and trying to pass the dog dropping onto her probably will have more effect on the "American public" than all the other crimes of this administration.

[realFedUp]

5. I'd bet you're wrong.

Yeah, no black armbands here...

[Booberdawg]

6. Good Gawd! It's waaaay too early to give up hope

Find yourself a hobby to occupy your mind for a while.

[prolesunited]

14. He does have a hobby

Posting doom and gloom scenarios on DU. ;-)

"If you lose hope, somehow you lose the vitality that keeps life moving, you lose that courage to be, that quality that helps you go on in spite of it all. And so today I still have a dream."
— MLK, The Trumpet of Conscience

[Democrats unite]

7. The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned back on

And I'll be damned, If I will let comments like yours turn it off again.

[asjr]

8. hope

I know exactly what he is feeling. One day I am encouraged, the next day I am discouraged. It is a normal human feeling. We see all that the administration is getting by with and it makes me wonder. I wonder if we all are living in an alternative universe, because we think this simply cannot be happening on earth. It is happening, but I realize I must have a positive attitude. This is a very corrupt administration, but we did get rid of Richard Nixon. I admit that was a time when the Repubs were not in lockstep with the president as they are now, but the feeling of encouragement is better than discouragement. Just my 3 cents. (inflation, you know.)

[Flying_Pig]

9. This thread stinks. Where DO you people come from???

Yesterday, and almost every day, there are two or three of these crappy, negative, defeatist, posts. We're going to win, and win big, If you can't handle that thought, then get the hell out of the way, because we're coming through!

:grr:

[maha]

12. Amen, bro' pig! n/t

[DrBB]

10. The "aura of inevitability" virus: INNOCULATE YOURSELF NOW

You are the victim of an information virus. Here's how it works.

People want to feel like they're on the winning side. Therefore, the person leading in the race, going in to the last few days, gets an extra lift from the perception that he/she is a winner. Conversely, the feeling that your guy is going to lose anyway may cause you to stay home, work less hard, etc. Why bother, you say, when the choice is between helping out and watching the tube or whatever.

Rove has developed a tactic that tries to create that impression and amplify it, irrespective of approval ratings or any other empirical indicators of how things are going. What matters is not the fact of being ahead, but the perception. All opponents are tarred as losers ahead of time, and the Rove team starts acting like it's all in the bag weeks or even months ahead. Why wait, after all, since it's not based on actual facts.

Building up the war chest is part of it. Pushing the polls, whatever. Doesn't matter.

And the really nifty thing is that even people on the other side become carriers of the information virus, which happily multiplies, glomming whatever nourishing evidence it needs to itself (however feeble) and spreading its wheedling way along.

In other words: CUT IT OUT. Innoculate yourself. Give the candidate bashing threads a rest for a week. Read more conversion stories. Here's one:

Talked to my mom last night--a Bush voter, a Limbaugh listener. Been defending the creeps all along, to the point where I just try not to talk about this stuff. At some point in the last weeks, she has had an epiphany. She has realized that what she took on trust--that Bush and pals somehow knew what they were doing--was a CROCK. She will NOT vote for them in 2004. She and my conservative (but not NEO-conservative) Dad are looking very hard at Clark and liking how he comes across. At the very least, they are VERY down on voting for Bush, and this is the key: even if they don't find a Dem they like, they will not support or vote for the Chimp.

Moral: this shit works both ways, and there are a LOT of disaffected Republicans out there. All the thinking ones. And more on the way.

So INNOCULATE YOURSELF. Work at it. That's what DU is for, at its best. This attitude is seductive, but it is NOT based on reality, it only looks that way. The world is bigger than we know, the future full of wonders. Read Mark Morford. Meditate on what happened to Nixon--the day I saw that "Nixon Resigns" headline was like a miracle--I never thought that could happen. You think you are looking at things objectively, but that's the virus talking: it is assembling the info it needs. Feed on other info. Above all, do NOT spread this thing to other people.

[msanger]

17. check out "Dick"

A movie that came out two or three years ago, about how Nixon's demise was the result of two pissed off teen-age girls.

It is reasonably funny, and a good reminder of how the "mighty" tend to to fall.

[diplomats]

23. Great post, DrBB

Love the story about your parents - very encouraging!

[bobd]

30. Interesting!

Thanks Dr! I've not heard of this before. I suppose I am easily infected by this "virus". I've always been pessimistic and tend to readily believe the worst.

I do have a question, though:

How do you or would you handle the HUGE punch in the face of Bush acutally winning despite all of the seemily positive signs to the contrary? I'm really afraid of my reaction to that event, more so if I "give in" to the positive instead of the negative. If I expect him to win then his actually winning would seem to be less of a downer than if I fully expected him to lose and then he wins.

I'm really interested in you thoughts on this.

Thanks!!!!!!!!

Bob D.

[gristy]

55. OUTSTANDING, DrBB!

People want to feel like they're on the winning side.

I was JUST talking to my sister, and that is exactly what I said to her about why people like to jump on Ahnold's bandwagon.

Keep the faith, everyone!

[poskonig]

11. Give up *whining*, not winning!

:evilgrin:

Looking at the map electorally, knocking off Bush is definitely doable.

[Warpy]

13. I disagree

...with much of your analysis, although I tend to feel a bit gloomy about the prospects from time to time, myself.

The Wilson scandal is not going away. The CIA is a large, well-funded and media savvy organization, and they are hopping mad about it. They'll make sure that folks know it's gone beyond "just politics," even if they have to start shopping around photos of "foreign contacts brutally murdered since Plamme's identity was revealed."

The economy is not picking up. People are just running out of unemployment bennies and are hustling for whatever low wage, part time gig they can get.

The people who love to hate are starting to love to hate Bush. Abortion is still legal, their wages aint risin' the prices aint fallin' and you know the rest of the song.

Another terrorist attack would only help Bush, as people always rally around even the worst leaders in national emergencies. Although Bush will trumpet the fact that his idiotic mismanagement of foreign affairs is responsible, but people are still hearing of dead US soldiers on the news every night, and they know better.

The only way Bush can win is either if there's a massive attack on the US, or if those Diebold machines are rigged to the point that we all know the election was a complete fraud. The ABB movement is gaining strength, folks, and it's the folks on the right who have felt most betrayed by the "compassionate conservative" who turned out to be an Imperial radical bent on corporate world domination.

[LiberalVoice]

15. At times...

I think us winning is hopeless b/c unfortunatly the populus are a bunch of idiots...Especially living in Pittsburgh, Pa an EXTREMELY conservative city(suprisingly enough, seeing as how the majority of people living here are drunken frat boy assholes).

But, then there are times like now that i seriously think we can beat Bushit. I refuse to think that the good people of this country will stand by and watch this murderer kill more people, watch him destory the economy, force his religion down our throats. This is all bullshit.

Ok after remembering all the things he has done to hurt people all over this planet. Now im just really fucking mad!

[warrior1]

16. take a big breath

Ok, this isn't going away. bush will resign in disgrace. Tide is turning. Creeps will abound, but we've got the truth on our side.

[Former Republican]

18. The Democrats will win.

Consumer confidence is down.

Media is out of 9/11 mode.

Rush is getting fucked from all sides.

Iraq is a mess.

The economy is not picking up. The markets may be picking up, but they don't measure the economy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. My responses

1. Limbaugh will skate, will not be prosecuted due to his wealth and holy conservative standing, will continue to be a hero to all reich wingers. His problems will change no minds.
Like Bill Bennett, he'll probably drop quietly out of sight.

2. The Wilson Affair is the wrong kind of affair; it has nothing to do with illicit sex which is what the majority of the public sees as the ultimate evil. No illicit sex - it becomes "just politics".
The reaction to Watergate brought Jimmy Carter into the White House and a lot of great Dems into Congress. The reaction to Clinton's "scandal" gave Al Gore the popular vote.

3. The economy appears to be picking up. Bush will say it's due to his tax cuts and the "people" will believe it.
Until people see their own jobs and their friends' jobs coming back and until businesses see sales picking up beyond the flurry of spending caused by the child tax credits, they won't think that the economy has recovered.

4. No more terrorist attacks (at least so far). When faced with pulling the lever for Bush vs. an "immoral" dem the "people" will use the "no more terrorist attacks" to justify pulling the lever for Bush.
I just don't see people outside of the Northeast that concerned about terrorism. If anything, they're really annoyed at the airport procedures.

5. No nomination contest in the 'thug party. They are behind the holy warrior.
And he's all they got, and the Dems really, really hate him. They'll be motivated.

6. Arnold will win in California. The media will fame it as part of the continuing Republican juggernaut and the "people" will buy it.
That's only what the polls say. You're a grown man, and you still believe in polls?

7. Religion. The "people" love mean-spirited religions that allows and encourages them to freely hate those unlike themselves. Why else would christianity (tm) be so popular? Ask your favorite fundamentalist how many liberal democrats are part of their congregation? I ask my brother this when he tells me that christian (tm) churches are not GOP branch offices. His answer is always, "Well, none". Duh!
If the non-fundies get organized--and few non-fundy Christians have any use for Bush--they can easily outnumber the fundies.

8. The increase in SUV and big, shiny, macho pickup sales. We're a nation enthralled with penis measurement. It's big and turgid and Republican (see also the slathering for Ahnold).
Not in the cities. And there is a counter-trend that gets very little publicity, but which seems to be growing: the car-free (as I was in Portland) and car-lite (as I am in Minneapolis) movements, the return to the city by the affluent, and the growth of New Urbanist development, even in the Minneapolis suburbs, which have previously grown exclusively in Sprawl Hell patterns.

9. The "people" themselves. Collectively we love to hate! Collectively we're white, southern, full of piss and vinegar and out to do some lynchin'. Yee Haw!
But also capable of great acts of charity and community service. We need candidates who will appeal to their better instincts. By the way, when it comes to right-wing views, "southern rednecks" have nothing on Clackamas County Oregonians and outer suburban Twin Citians.

10. The media is firmly behind the 'thugs. We'll know it's not when Fox News and right-wing hate radio loses so many listeners it whithers and dies. Good luck!
We have to fly under the media radar. Talk to people every chance you get. You'll be surprised at how many people who look as if they should be Bush fans hate his guts.

Don't believe everything you hear and read in the media.

[OKNancy]

22. Doesn't matter because no matter what happens

the Democrats have a better plan.
We are still far out front on the healthcare issue. That 87 billion isn't going away or the reasons we need it. There is no way in one year that the deficit is going to shrink..quite the opposite.

If we get a candidate who can inspire and have a positive vision, things will be just fine for the Democrats.

[dofus]

24. The big unknown at this point

is what will be happening in the economy, in Iraq, in the Bush administration a year from now. The Wilson affair will probably be over and most people won't care any more. Rush Limbaugh's drug use will be very old news. There's a lot of truth to the rest of the "con" items. A lot depends on who is the nominee, and what kind of campaign gets run.

As for Arnold, if he's actually governor next year, he'll probably no longer be seen as the knight in shining armor who rescued California from the evil Democrats. Taxes will need to be raised. There are long term economic forces at work in California that are not going to go away just because the Terminator comes in to town.

One thing for sure, the upcoming campaign will be the dirtiest one imaginable, no matter who the Democratic nominee is. All of our guys have liabilities, although none so great as Bush's own, in my opinion. But if we (the Democrats) don't fight back hard and as dirty as they're going to, we won't stand a chance in an otherwise fair and free election.

The REAL issue in my opnion is whether or not there is a fair and free election. The electronic voting machines are a big key here. What if there's no exit polling? There wasn't in 2002, and some race results simply didn't make sense. But we had no way of knowing with no exit polling. Remember, the exit polling in Florida clearly showed that Gore had won, and the Republicans then spent six weeks stealing the election. They don't intend to have to work that hard at it again.

But beyond the black box voting, I don't trust this administration to actually hold an election next year. After all, how hard would it be to suddenly put us on red alert on November 1, and keep us there for a week, and then get Congress to pass some kind of act cancelling the election permanently. Or to put only some areas on red alert -- places that are safely Republican get to vote -- and then have the electoral college certify the incomplete voting in January.

I hope I'm wrong.

[GOPFighter]

25. Hey, if I lived in a Red State, I might feel the same way...

...some days. When one is in constant contact with people who think Faux News is the unbiased, that we should invade France next, and that liberals are traitors and the cause of all America's troubles, sometimes it's hard to keep the faith.

My biggest worry is that somehow the Democrats are going blow this opportunity. I'm worried that the animosity I see developing between the Clark and Dean supporters, for example, will somehow end up splitting our party.

[BurtWorm]

26. You mean you once actually *had* hope?

;) You owe every one a beer if you're wrong! :hi:

[Old and In the Way]

27. Rest easy bobd

Democrats aren't afraid to debate. We value principles, content, and ideas. The fact that we have 9-10 candidates vying for the nomination means we have a great debate and vitality in our Party. Personally, I love 'em all....any one of them would be superior skills of leadership and bring America's priorities to the forefront.

Ask your self a few questions-

* Who won by 1/2 million votes in 2000? (Supreme COurt be damned)
* How many Democrats will vote for Bush this time?
* What % of Independents are going to vote for Bush this time?
* How many Republicans will vote for a Democrat this time?
* How many Republicans won't vote?

What has this administration accomplished?

* Asleep at the wheel on 9/11/01
* Squashed the 9/11 investigation
* 2 Tax cuts for the rich, a $450BB deficit, maybe a $2TT drain on the US Treasury and 3 MM people have lost their jobs.
* Misleadership on the War on Terror -
* A war against Iraq based on cooked intel, 100s of Americans dead, Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqs killed and maimed.
* No WMD
* No energy policy vision that will get us out of oil, because it's a key segment of Republican Party
* War Profiteering at levels unseen ever in America
* Outing of CIA agents and endangering our national security to protect their political interests.

No, once we choose our nominee, watch how solid our focus becomes...I guarantee you that there will be surge of Democratic voters and activism in 2004, the likes you've never seen. We will have a supercharged internet network that will provide a vehicle for knowledge and activism that was dormant in 2000....the bad news is just beginning, expect even more truth to awaken the masses over the next 12 months. The aggregated 4 year results of Republican mismangement and malfeasance will create a Democratic voter turnout making the results impossible to freep....

[Bob3]

29. I think you're wrong.

for several reasons.

1. The economoy continues to flop like a fish washed up on the beach - one quarter it's up and the cheerleaders say we've turned a corner and then well, nothing much happens - this has been the pattern for 3 long and depressing years. Nothing in the forcasts except a stubbon optimism argues for things to get better soon. Jobs continue to vanish and that will not stop, hell my firm is cheerfuly talking about shipping jobs to India or Ireland.

2. The Wilson affiar is just starting - Novak outing a CIA front company is the latest - this has legs, real go to jail legs. Cause this strikes right at the CIA's abilty to gather Human intelligence, a vital part of any anti-terrosim actions.

3. Iraq will continue to be a money pit. Sometime next year * will have to BACK to congress to ask for more money - the money that the rest of the world won't give him. Lord how is that going to look?

4. Rush is a non-issue - he's been shown for who he is and only the nazis that listened to him before will continue to do so. Meantime he can kiss any national exposure good bye except on Fox.

5. MY last point is really the wild card factor: *'s utter incompetence (and I include his inner circle in this). * has one real talent - he fucks up (and some of daddy's friends bail him out). He tanked the economy and the budget. And really any poltical figure that manages to piss away the natural American reacton to rally around the flag and the President in times of crisis not once but TWICE (the aftermath of 9-11 and the aftermath of the attack on Iraq) is someone that shouldn't be in this business. Christ on a crutch even a creep like Bob Dole would be pulling away by now, not looking at a tight campaign.

Not that beating him will be easy - he and his followers are greed mad pigs in love with power - however provided the eventual democratic standard bearer goes at it like an energizer bunny, taking advantge of *'s laziness (month long vacations and the like will he take one in 2004 you wonder) * will be beaten like a red headed stepchild.

Hell he lost the first time

:hippie:

[chiburb]

33. Thanks for the heads-up!

By booking early I saved $200 on my airfare to Canada!
Thanks again...

[buff2]

34. Don't get discouraged

We are going to WIN!!!! Too many people are suffering and they will want CHANGE. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT......PLANT A BUSH BACK IN TEXAS!!! :evilgrin:

[madison]

35. For a change of pace, read how Republicans are feeling

I think it is wrong to pull down other people's spirits just because YOU are having a gloomy day.

We all have our up and down days, but we should try NOT to inflict our down days on others.

For a change of pace, read how Republicans are feeling, right about now:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/6926616.htm

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Republicans unsure of Bush's chances for 2004 election"

By Ron Hutcheson and Steven Thomma,
Knight Ridder Newspapers

<WASHINGTON - In a sharp reversal, Republicans who just months ago daydreamed about a 2004 election landslide now worry that President Bush is losing control of events at home and abroad and faces a real chance of leading the party to defeat.>

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
You will note that it isn't Republicans writing the gloomy stuff; it is reporters.

So we need to stop bringing down one another's spirits.

Or, maybe, there are right-wing infiltrators here who are determined to undermine our hopes.

[LittleApple81]

36. Thanks, thanks, thanks. I feel better now. n/t

[neebob]

37. Uh, what about the majority

Remember all those people who voted for Gore in 2000? Do you think they all switched over? Ask yourself how many of them will vote for Bush in 2004 vs. how many who voted for Bush will vote for someone else. That's why the Repubes need to buy recalls and cancel primaries and replace voting machines and crash planes and monopolize the media and subvert the Constitution and stuff. Only the people who vote for them are stupid. I believe they're in the minority.

[Spazito]

38. Don't mind me but.....

I really hope this thread dies a natural, yet gloomy, death. Never fear, there will be another "Woe is us" thread soon. Geez, one would almost think this was a deliberate tactic to dampen the dem vote as in "Why bother, we are gonna lose, anyway".

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[West Coast Democrat]

40. Look Here.....

http://www.msnbc.com/news/975699.asp?0cv=KA01&cp1=1

[Wanet]

41. How does a post like this help us save our country?

We are all terribly worried about the future of our beloved republic. Your post seems more like talking points for the Bad Guys.

[Capn Sunshine]

42. I have Heard before

That the Nazi trained Right wing machine totally believes in the value of moles and actually pays people to post online about how miserable our chances are and that we have no hope of winning. The strategy is that this will discourage people from coming out and voting. It's happening now in California.

So, my question is, don't you feel badly doing someone's job for free when they probably need the money?
:nuke:

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

43. Iraq being a mess is hardly a "pro" by any stretch

People are being killed. I would be happy to see a stable situation develop there.

Also, an improving economy is not a "con". I think everyone wants the economy to improve.

Bush will lose in 2004, and it won't take a doomsday scenario.

[John_H]

44. You've tried to pull this defeatist shit a couple of times before

My guess is that you live in some heavily republican area and don't get out much. Dude, he's at 50 and dropping, the economy could go gangbusters and he'd still have a net loss of jobs, the media can't spin for him any more. He's toast.

[onecitizen]

45. There you are again............

with your upbeat posts. I'm glad you're not influential in the party. We would have already killed ourselves.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

46. This is what is known as a Jelly Leg Democrat.

[LittleApple81]

47. ONE THING WE MUST DO IS BATTLE DIEBOLD AND THE

OTHER VOTING SYSTEMS THAT DO NOT PROVIDE A PAPER TRAIL!

I think we can really win this one if the votes are not stolen.

[West Coast Democrat]

48. With Attitudes Like Yours....

how could we fail to lose?

[DemNoir]

49. I really really wish

That people like you would just go the hell away! Scared little sky is falling DU'ers are making me sick to my stomach.

Go out and do something positive for the cause instead of whining, you fool.

[West Coast Democrat]

50. I agree wholeheartedly, rpalochko

Really, if this wanted guy to find a group of people who are more than happy to whine about shortcomings of the Democratic Party, I'm sure he could find them over at some Republican message board.

[haymaker]

51. What's the point of posting it? You're a loser, so?

You are conspicuously trying to undermine confidence. Why?

JUMAASA

[Rex]

52. Hey, weren't you saying it was "hopeless" a few months ago?

I could be wrong - maybe it was "losing faith". When you get some new material, let me know!

[Nay]

53. Bob, it doesn't bother me that you are having lots of negative thoughts.

Personally, I think that deconstructing the whole situation, looking at the positives and negatives, listing possible outcomes, etc., is a valuable tool for decisionmaking and prognostication. Please, everybody, let's not dump on Bob! The whole rah-rah, blind-optimism thing is a RW habit, not a Dem habit, and I don't want to copy that aspect of nutty RWism.

Having said that, I would like to add a couple of things that no one has mentioned:

PRO:
Liberal books by Franken, Moore, etc., are FLYING out of the bookstores. there is a pent-up disgust at what is going on. This is wonderful and a good sign!
(Just remember, this phenomenon is not occurring sufficiently in the RW states, like here in Virginia, and lonely liberals such as myself and Bob do not see many individuals changing their minds about Bushco. Thus we fear that these guys will win again.)

CON:
Bush will indeed bow out of the 2004 race, but only to be replaced by another neocon.
This is MY greatest fear. Dimwitted RWers who feel vaguely uneasy about Bushco will have a completely new, clean, virile, moral Repub to vote for. Their feeble consciences will be salved and they will rush to vote for a Repub that is not Bush, conveniently pretending to themselves that they have cleaned house, even though they have left the rest of the Bush team in place.


I can see many of my coworkers, no matter how disgusted (and they aren't very disgusted here in VA), cheerfully voting Repub if the Pres/VP ticket was not Bush/Cheney in 2004. So, in my opinion, the idea that the repubs can't win because of the dumb things Bush has done can be neatly circumvented by the repubs if they simply don't run the doofus again. Run somebody else, and keep all the repubs in the fold. That's what I would do, anyway.

[bobd]

56. Why Can't I Post Negative Opinions Here?

I want nothing more than to publicly eat crow for being wrong on all my pessimism on the day after the 2004 election. If we win in 2004 I will publiclly excoriate myself and willingly say that I was wrong, wrong, wrong. It will literally be the happiest day of my life.

For the present, however, I'm sorry, but I just don't see things turning around enough yet. There's been lots of good news for us lately, yes. But my fear is that all the scandals and bad press the cabal is receiving will dry up and blow away come election day.

I also don't think it's fair for people to call me a fool or tell me to get the hell away simply because I don't share their optimism. It's also not fair to label me a disruptor or a freeper, or a 'thug mole because I'm openly pessimistic about our chances in 2004. I'm none of these things. I've donated to DU for two years now. DU is my MAIN source of political news. I desperately want us to win in 2004. In fact I'm pretty much obsessed with the cabal's popularity on a day to day basis. It' pretty much all I think of. Sick? You bet! Depressed? Duh!

Bob D.