Billy Graham's son Franklin talking about death

[goclark]

Did I hear him correctly on MSNBS with Joe Scarsbough?

Did he say something like..." all of us have to die sometime. It may be in a war or a flood or when ever God calls you to Him."

So is he saying that you should go on and send your son to Iraq because he will be safe unless God says it's his turn?

I'm not sure I understand.
I don't think Joe did either because he made no comment.

[kodi]

1. his whole family is going to hell for fleecing poor folks who gave them $

this guy and his father made a living, a rich living off of the nickels and dimes of poor people who thought that sending money to them would open up the gates of heaven for them. neither him nor his father ever had an empty belly in their lives.

[delen]

6. no coins

was at a Billy Graham "event" once a long time ago . Remember him saying as they passed around the basket " just bills folks we just can't handel those coins"

[goclark]

21. God would not mind if there were coins

in the collection plate.

I am Christian but that talk really steams me with preachers.

Why didn't I see Franklin in the Astrodome?

[RevCheesehead]

8. I think that's an unfair characterization.

They're theologically conservative, but Billy Graham ministries has a high integrity mark in their missional work around the world. And Samaritan's Purse is doing some good work, too - like blakets for Iraqis and Christmas gifts to the poor in afflicted areas.

They're nowhere in the same league as Robert Tilton and Jim Bakker.

Disagree with the theology, but they are really helping people in the world.

[kodi]

11. and he lived off the fat AND lean of others.

whatever good he did with one hand he took for himself with the other.

i donate both time and money to the poor but i don't go around asking others to give me some of their own money to do it.

[RevCheesehead]

14. can you back that up?

Honestly, they are not living like multi-millionaires. If you have some evidence that proves otherwise, I'd like to see it. The money that comes in goes to the ministry, not the person. I think their salaries are modest, compared to other religious personalities.

[kodi]

19. compared to others? is that your excuse? compared to other parasites?

the money that goes into their ministry is skimmed of the top so they can live a lifestyle certainly better than most who give them money.

if you're a man of the cloth and have the calling well, good for you you'll get into heaven. but for the overwhelming masses who gave graham money they did it because he convinced them that it was a toll fee for the great forever after. that is just plain parasitic.

as to proving it, i guess you think i have their irs forms in front of me, but he lived well, better than most americans, and i can't believe you would even defend a man who spoke the gospel of jesus and took money from those poorer than him and lived off of it.

[RevCheesehead]

24. "woman", not man.

You sound hostile to me. What's up with that?

All I'm saying is that the organization does good work. I disagree with their politics, but I agree with their efforts to stop AIDS, to provide blankets and other necessities to displaced people around the world. That's one organization that takes Matthew 26 to heart. Lord knows DUers have been swinging those verses around, charging hypocrisy at the fundies who don't practice what they preach. Franklin Graham at least practices what he preaches.

As to how much he takes in for his salary, I'm certain it pales in comparison to Falwell, Robertson, and just about every CEO in this country. If he were outrageously skimming the ministry, we'd have heard about it by now.

Besides, donations ARE voluntary. So what's the problem? :shrug:

[theHandpuppet]

13. I think you may want to read this

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/funding_the_culture_wars.php

Funding The Culture Wars
Jeff Krehely
February 16, 2005

(excerpt)

The groups that receive government largesse—and don’t care what those zealots within the libertarian wing of the Republican Party say about it—include Samaritan’s Purse, which received $6.6 million from the foundations analyzed in the NCRP study. Samaritan’s Purse is led by Franklin Graham, who provided the sermon at George W. Bush’s first inauguration and more recently was in the headlines for denouncing Islam as an “evil” religion.

In 2004, the United States Agency for International Development awarded Samaritan’s Purse $5.6 million to work on abstinence programs whose goal is to stop the spread of AIDS in Africa. Never mind that a few years, ago Samaritan’s Purse was censured for proselytizing while carrying out services—paid for with another U.S. AID grant—in earthquake-ravaged El Salvador. Or that Graham believes the Christian Church is the key to stopping or slowing the AIDS epidemic—not condoms or medicine.

Another supporter of Samaritan’s Purse is Senate Majority Leader (and medical doctor) Bill Frist, R-Tenn. Frist established a charity, World of Hope, several months before the Republican National Convention in New York City last summer. He held a fundraiser for World of Hope, pledging that he’d re-give the donated money to one of five charities, including Samaritan’s Purse. Conveniently, donors to the fundraiser bought invaluable face time with Republican lawmakers and, because the contributions went to a nonprofit, circumvented federal lobbying regulations and public disclosure requirements.

Much More...

[goclark]

16. Wow! Thanks for the link! He is a real BUSH Crook

with a cross around his neck!

[RevCheesehead]

17. so?

the organization received money to help stop the spread of AIDS in Africa. Do you disagree with the intent, or the means? And what difference does that make? The intent is to stop AIDS.

The rest is more telling of the federal government, not the ministry.

These people really are not evil - they have good intentions. I just disagree with their politics and conservative theology.

[theHandpuppet]

23. Denouncing the use of condoms does nothing to stop AIDS

If anything, abstinence only programs has puts millions of lives at risk.

"Frist spoke at Samaritan’s Purse’s “Prescription for Hope” conference in 2002, which launched Graham’s crusade against condoms—I mean, against HIV. Referring to the use of condoms to stop the spread of the disease, Frist stated, “I as a physician do believe that if you’re going to go this route put morality aside…you may well end up having HIV/AIDS.” Equating using condoms (i.e., having sex) with contracting HIV/AIDS is one stunning example of the right’s unusual definition of ‘compassion’ (as in ‘compassionate conservatism’)."

See also:
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/uganda0305/

[RevCheesehead]

25. I still think your argument lies with the government, not Graham.

You should be demanding that those who decide where grants go re-think their contributions to Samaritan's Purse.

But surely, you agree that providing blankets to Iraqis is good?

[theHandpuppet]

26. Oh yeah, about Mr Graham and his blankets...

http://www.counterpunch.org/cajee04112003.html
http://utah.indymedia.org/news/2003/03/4648.php
http://www.twf.org/News/Y2003/0327-Christianizing.html
http://www.laetusinpraesens.org/docs00s/richrisa.php

[CascadeTide]

20. the christmas gift thing really irks me

growing up in the south, my sunday school class would always take a bunch of toys and food to a poor black family. The church I went to had a parquet basketball court, raquetball courts, weight room, swimming pool, giant meeting hall with a professional kitchen. All of that and a group of 20-odd families would feed 2 families for a single day once a year. Those people used it to give validation to their extravigant lifestyles for the low-low price of $50 or whatever everyone's family chipped in. The rest of the year nobody really cared what happened on the other side of town.

I remember feeling so embarassed going to those houses and I wouldn't look the kids in the eye. I'm sure they felt the same way. I had no idea why at the time but I do now.

[goclark]

22. That happens in many churches

I'm glad you were able to see the light at such a young age.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Sure hope God feels the urge to have Franklin close to his side real soon.

[goclark]

5. Yea , I wonder how Frankie would feel if God

said tonight, "Come On Little Frankie, it's time to go. I know you want to keep on being there and letting people know how great Bush Art, but I need you Little Frankie ----NOW!"

Bet he would be on bended knee begging to stay a little longer.

[Ilsa]

3. Franklin the Fraud.

I despise this guy.

[goclark]

7. He looks like a drugie to me

There is something of "the rapture" in his eyes that freaks me out.

[blonndee]

4. These people are dangerous. They do not mourn for the dead because

they think EVERYTHING is part of their god's plan. Suffering, death, murder, war...most of the Franklin crowd think an ACTUAL war between their god and their satan is going on in Iraq right now.

Believe me, I got family who swallow this unchristian crap and beg for more of it.

Disclaimer: This isn't about Christians, it's about these unholy freak types.

Edited to add: I wonder whether they'd feel the same if it were one of their children who died because their government abandoned them. Scary thing, I think they would.

[goclark]

9. I wanted to slam my TV

and tell him to sign his kids up for Iraq and put his Mama in a boat with a leak!

Then I'll believe him.

[RevCheesehead]

10. it helps to understand conservative theology.

In this mindset, Christianity = going to heaven. Death is, of course, the way - and not something to be afraid of. It's a fatalistic mindset.

I don't think he'd agree with the Iraq connection. Instead, if he were crass (like me), he'd say "shit happens. death happens. and yes, tragedies happen." But then he adds "it's all a part of God's plan." THAT's the part I disagree with him on, theologically.

[goclark]

15. He needed to be rescuing the thousands of Christians

in NO then because he knows so much about God's plan.

God I am sure will give him the right signal so he has nothing to fear --ha.

I bet he is a wimp and I know he is a rich wimp.

[theHandpuppet]

12. Here's another good one from Franklin...

Sean Hannity asked Franklin Graham tonight why “on the one hand” some people have risked their lives to help the hurricane victims while “on the other side, we have looting, shooting, rape and mayhem.”

Graham answered, “Of course, Sean, this happens in a country when we have taken God out of our schools and God out of our society. We don’t have a moral standard and we need to put God back into our schools.”

[goclark]

18. When I saw his eyes I knew he was a crook

Then when I noticed the name, Graham, i gave him a little slack.

But now, " My eyes are wide open and I see him for what he is, a BUSHCROOK.