How was the levee really destroyed?

[xultar]

If it had failed in other areas on the lake side what other communities would have been destroyed?

I really want to find out how the levee really broke. Something to me seems fishy about the levee break.

What are they covering up about this levee situation.

[orpupilofnature57]

1. By a lack of funds ?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

2. ROVE BROKE THE LEVEE!!!

OMG I saw him do it!

[Douglas Carpenter]

3. now let's be sensible -- it was space aliens

[Jacobin]

4. psssst

No. It was those guys from the UN in black helicopters who are trying to start a world government.

[Douglas Carpenter]

6. sounds like a conspiracy theory to me -- I'm sticking with space aliens

[Land Shark]

25. well, they're ignoring the recent history of people dynamiting levees

in order to divert floodwaters away from their own property.

http://www.salon.com/april97/columnists/carville970407.html

And, of people patrolling levees and shooting those who might be threats to do that ("contractors"?)

If one wants to approach this from a scientific or forensic point of view, we'd have to keep open any reasonable possiblity including terrorism and locals diverting floodwaters via explosives or other methods.

On the other hand, if we simply want to engage in prejudice (prejudgment), faith-based thinking and attitude, we'd ridicule certain possibilities from the get go as "tinfoil" and accept any plausible explanation as plenty of reason to 'move on'.

It's a good thing our prosecutors aren't as pollyannish as some of the anti-tinfoil folks here. On the other hand, certainly lots of tinfoil theories shoot themselves in the foot by jumping from "entirely possible" to "this IS what happened folks!" That of course is the same investigational mistake made by those willing to accept any seemingly plausible reason as sufficient to move on and think no more about it.

[Tesla]

5. My friend said that he heard this at work.

That right before the levees broke, choppers and on the ground ,Police and NG reported hearing, "Charges being set off".BAM,BAM.
When I asked where he heard that or seen it, he said it was live on TV the morning the levees broke.

Any news feed on that?

I think one report was from the 17th St levee.

He said alot of people were talking aboout it at his work.
I personally didn't see it.

[wakeme2008]

Me too

IMHO, it broke because of lack of funding to fix it.

Again, IMHO, too many people died in NO, if somebody blew it up, there would be too many people reporting in the local media.

[jsamuel]

10. that sure is a chain of rumors there

[SidDithers]

7. You don't believe that a Cat 5 could knock out a levee...

designed to only withstand a Cat 3 hurricane?

Sid

[Land Shark]

27. Top winds in New Orleans were 100 mph, not even a CAT 3

so the proffered explanation by the Corps of Engineers (weather exceeded engineering specifications of Cat 3) is not accurate.

It doesn't matter if the hurricane was Cat 4 or 5 SOMEWHERE ELSE.

On edit, you don't see a lot of leveled buildings in New Orleans, do we?? Katrina was a LOT weaker there.

[SidDithers]

33. And your alternate explanation would be...?

So, if the cat 3,4,5 hurricane that hit NO, together with the southern flow of water from Lake Ponchatrain down the canal didn't cause the breach at 17th street, what are you suggesting did cause it?

Sid

[BiggJawn]

8. It was the Bilderburgers!

:tinfoilhat:

Shit happens, OK?
Didja hear of the report done LAST YEAR that says the levees wouldn't hold up to a Cat THREE storm?

[CascadeTide]

9. There is a precedent

In 1927 the levees in the poor sections of town were dynamited to relieve flooding in the wealthier parts of town. This time around pretty much everywhere was flooded so I don't see a clear pattern of intent with that motive but I can understand people being suspicious since it has happened before.

[xultar]

14. My dad said he met an evacuee in Houston that said his wife called

after hearing some booms and water rushed into their home.

The evacuee hasn't heard from his wife or kids since.

[Jacobin]

20. Actually, the levees were dynamited south of N.O in 1927

After consulting with teh people there and promising to pay for the damage, so as to spare N.O.

After the flood subsided N.O. reneged on its promise to pay for the damage south of N.O.

"Rising Tide"...I forget the author's name but its a great read about the Missississippi River's recent history

[CascadeTide]

22. Some people were compensated

Those with influence were, those without didn't see anything, much like what's going to happen in this aftermath...

[Land Shark]

29. People can always screw up a job, but the French Quarter & Garden District

were both largely unflooded, or relatively unflooded. NBC this morning had a feature on a millionaire lawyer in the Garden District (all mansions) refusing to leave. Wasn't flooded.

[Land Shark]

30. See this other DU link, houses of the Gentry spared & power generators

in operation

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4708971>

[SidDithers]

34. Yeah, amazing how that works, eh?...

How gravity makes water settle in the low lying areas, and how higher ground stays dry.

"In New Orleans, income and elevation can be correlated on a literally sliding scale: the Garden District on the highest level, Stanley Kowalski in the swamp. The Garden District and its environs are locally known as uptown"

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2005/08/30/mcphee/index_np.html

Sid

[QC]

11. I heard that a hurricane had something to do with it...

but don't quote me on that.

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. hmmmm...you think?

[mrbill]

13. i watched the levee break the night after katrina on cnn.....

It started out as a little hole. All you needed were some little dutch boys with helicopers and sand bags on the scene. Some bulldozers would also have been nice.

How many movies are there about people trying to fix the breech in the levee. At least they try.

Nothing ever happened, the calvary didn't come for days and the hole got bigger and bigger and the water got slowly deeper and deeper.

Somebody in charge doen't watch CNN or let it happen on purpose.

Even if a quick fix didn't work, it would have looked like somebody was trying.

Then why no warnings? It wasn't like a tsunami, more like the water slowly rising. The folks in charge didn't seem to realize that water runs downhill.

on edit: spell check harpy

[SidDithers]

15. .

nevermind

Sid

[jim3775]

16. It was HAARP!

HAARP I tells ya!

Damn Hawaiian American Retirees are always up to no good.

[supernova]

17. NPR was talking about a tidal wave in the 9th Ward

much like a tsunami, and maybe 20ft+.

Since people have had some time to survey the damage, some have speculated that a tidal wave hit the 9th ward.

Clues:

* Impossibly fast rising water (within 30 minutes water was already 8 ft in some places.

* Multi-ton Barge brought inland. It was in the canal.

edit: Here's a link to the story

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4838668

[Tesla]

18. I said it was "Watercooler"!!

[Dora]

28. I listened to that piece this morning too. It makes sense. n/t

[rfkrfk]

19. three levees failed, that I know about

Industrial Canal, East side of the canal, possible barge collision

...


London ave. canal, West sideof the canal, just south of
Robert E. Lee Blvd, failed



17th St canal, East side of the canal, at Spencer ave, failed

these two, were thin canal wall types, not 'wide' levees

another issue with these two is that there are no floodgates to close,
at the lake

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. One reason - FEMA DIDN'T SEND THE HELICOPTERS

that Nagin requested for shoring up the 17th Street Levee.

They told him they were coming and then they told him that the HELICOPTERS were DIVERTED.

Nagin had the sandbags, all he needed was the FEMA's HELICOPTERS. Even then sandbagging might not have been enough, but they should have at least made the attempt.

[stellanoir]

23. Here's one theory

http://www.rense.com/general67/loose.htm

People around here have varying opinions about Madsen, I know.

There were also quotations from survivors swearing that they heard something that sounded like explosives. Who the heck knows?

[Douglas Carpenter]

26. I'm still sticking with space aliens

or perhaps just maybe the levees broke because they were not adequate to handle the Hurricane, who knows?

[stellanoir]

32. I prefer to blame

everything that goes wrong on the "baby sacrificing, blood sucking, shape shifting reptilians."

I much more fond of aliens than those guys.

[KharmaTrain]

24. Reality Check Time...

I accept the U.S. Corp of Engineer's original finding of levee failure...and how this flooding might have been fait accompli no matter how strong the system was.

The deal that screwed New Orleans was the fact the main storm surge...that huge wall of water that destroyed Gulfport and Biloxi, as well as all that rain rushed into Lake Ponchatrain. Not only did the water levels rise, but a reverse surge occured pushing water toward New Orleans and it's "western" or southern bubrs of Chalmette and St. Bernard Parish.

The water in St. Bernard...which is just as bad and devestating as New Orleans wasn't caused by levee failure...that was the lake reclaiming the once lowlands that have been replaced by nursing homes and shopping malls.

The 17th street levee was compromised from the bottom up. The pressure of the water surging into the New Orleans canals in that surge (Sunday night/monday morning), held on most the canals (such as the ones in Jefferson Parish that didn't breech). The 17th street on was holding, then the foundation under the levee wall began to erode and that's what took a section of the canal down and the flooding was on. The argument is that levee was compromised with the building of new roads in the area and that the funding approved in '98 for upgrading the situation could have seen that wall replaced (it was known to be vulnerable) but we know what happened to that money.

I don't think this break can be covered up. There's tons of science that can and will explain what happened and it's pretty straight forward. This flood went almost exactly as the "doomsday" scenarios that were played out in many books and disaster drills. There was a PBS special earlier this year that all but explained how the levee system was vulnerable and how a devestating flood would destroy the city. We're seeing self-fulfilling prophecy created by a regime stuck in its own little world.

[NorthernSpy]

31. according to the ACoE, the first levee to go...

... was punctured when a barge rammed it. This was the Industrial Canal levee, and the resulting flood drowned the Ninth Ward long before other parts of the city flooded.

I am not sure why a barge was left in a position to destroy the levee while an immensely strong hurricane was bearing down on the area. That has not yet been explained.