Why to vote for Davis or Bustamante rather than Camejo

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

I challenge ANY Green to prove that Camejo can do better and actually GET his programs passed in Sacramento

We live in a state with some of the MOST liberal labor protections in the nation. Davis has repeatedly signed legislation to KEEP it that way. Even if Bush PASSED the overtime law it would NOT apply in California where we HAVE protected the 8 hour work day and we are NOT a right to work state.

People here who are injured on the job still get to CHOOSE their own physician after 30 days of control by the carrier. The benefit of that is that one does not have a doctor beholden to the carrier for business shortchanging them on their disability. Arnold will surely work towards repealing that since that is what INSURANCE carriers want.

These are things to vote for...can a SINGLE GREEN tell me Camejo could get MORE cooperation given the HUGE influence agriculture and law enforcement have in this state even WITHOUT campaing contributions? What do they think Camejo will be able to do? Govern by FIAT?? It's NOT gonna happen.

Davis legislative record on Green and labor and equality issues:


GREEN ENERGY POLICY

Today, non-hydro renewable energy provides a greater percentage of California’s power supply than it does in any other state in the nation.
Created an $850-million energy conservation program – the largest in state history.
Expressed his support for increasing statewide usage of renewable power from 12 to 17 percent by 2006. Provided more than $350 million in budget funding for the development of renewable power.
Directed the new California Power Authority to make a steady increase in the use of renewable power a priority.
Provided more than $47 million in incentives for the purchase of zero
SMART GROWTH

Closed a loophole allowing developers to subdivide large properties, circumventing environmental and zoning laws.
Signed legislation requiring major new housing developments to identify a source of water prior to construction.
Signed legislation to promote cleanup and redevelopment of urban brownfields.

CHILDREN'S ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH

Unveiled a new plan in 2002 to expand the existing Childhood Lead Poisoning Program.
The Governor provided support for clean-up of hazardous substances at school sites and to evaluate air quality in portable classrooms.
Broadened air quality standards to evaluate health risks to children (in addition to adults).
Signed the Healthy Schools Act to reduce pesticide use in schools.

ENVIRONMENTAL SAFETY

Setting the national standard for environmental justice.


Governor Davis established some of the toughest environmental health laws in the nation to regulate toxic mold, Chromium 6, and arsenic.
Signed ground-breaking environmental justice legislation, setting the national standard for long-range planning and environmental guidelines.

COASTAL PROTECTION

An unprecedented commitment to California’s coast.
Governor Davis has provided $107 million to clean up coastal pollution and reduce the number of beach closure days.
Signed legislation strengthening beach and coastal protections.
Filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Interior to block additional offshore oil drilling.
Vetoed the “Rigs-to-Reefs” bill which would have allowed oil companies to leave decommissioned oil platforms in place.

WATER QUALITY

California is the first state in the nation to meet certain federal clean water standards, using an innovative approach addressing both inland and coastal pollution in one program.
Supported and actively campaigned for Proposition 13, which earmarks $1.9 billion for water supply reliability, safe drinking water, flood control, and water conservation projects.
Signed the toughest water quality enforcement law in the nation requiring mandatory penalties for pollution.
Negotiated with U.S. Department of the Interior to address California’s water supply, water quality, and ecosystem restoration needs through the CALFED Bay-Delta program – the nation’s most comprehensive water management system.
$21.3 million in the 2001-02 budget for water quality efforts, including reducing pollution from dairies and storm water.
Governor Davis ordered the phase-out of the hazardous fuel additive MTBE, and petitioned the U.S. EPA to grant a waiver allowing California to bypass requirements for oxygen in gas, on the grounds that it would be counter productive and add unnecessary cost.
Provided $13.5 million in the 2001-02 budget to preserve and restore wetlands around Lake Tahoe.

Overtime Expansion

The Industrial Welfare Commission, whose members are appointed by the governor to reflect the interests of the public, labor and business, extended overtime to hundreds of thousands of workers in California who never before received it. Overtime was extended to the construction, drilling, logging, and mining industries.

Raising the State’s Minimum Wage

California’s minimum wage earners received a pay increase. Governor Davis approved an increase in the state minimum wage from $5.75 to $6.25 effective Jan. 1, 2001. An additional $.50 increase was approved effective Jan. 1, 2002.

Caesar Chavez Holiday

Honoring the founder and long-time leader of the United Farmworkers of America, the governor signed a bill declaring March 31, as Cesar Chavez Day in California. The bill, establishing the first paid state holiday in the nation to recognize Chavez, also requires the development of a curriculum to teach children about non-violence and economic justice, and encourages students to participate in community service activities through AmeriCorps and the California Conservation Corps.

Farm Worker Housing

Mindful of those workers who drive the economic engine of California’s Central Valley, the governor signed legislation that provides $500,000 in tax credits to builders of farm worker housing, another bill that increases family services for farm workers and their families and improves the safety of farm labor vehicles.

Child Care

The governor approved measures that expand the resources necessary to retain qualified child care employees in state-subsidized centers, and that require the state to develop recommendations for playground safety requirements at licensed child care centers.

Labor Law Enforcement

The governor signed legislation strengthening labor law enforcement and increasing penalties for employers who do not pay wages to their workers, and approved a measure that strengthens employment protections for people with disabilities.

Binding Arbitration

Governor Davis approved a binding arbitration process for firefighters and law enforcement employees that preserves the rights of these employees while offering consistent protection of the public.

Workplace Safety

Governor Davis approved increases in funding for Cal/OSHA to improve workplace safety, targeting employers with the highest proportion of fatalities, injuries, illness and workers’ compensation losses.

Young worker safety

The governor approved a statewide young worker health and safety resource network, which will increase the ability of young workers and their communities to identify and address workplace hazards for protecting young workers from on-the-job injuries/illnesses.

I might add that since I was IN PUBLIC HEARINGS in Sacramento for MOST of the labor law issues, I challenge ONE GREEN to demonstrate that a single ONE of those ISSUES was championed by a REPUBLICAN rather than a Democrat since so many CLAIM there is NO difference

No the greens will say..but a contributor of Davis' polluted and he didn't lock them up....I agree that was a mistake however A) the amount contributed was OVERBLOWN, b) the perpetrator got heavily fined and there was NO evidence that DAVIS had anything to do with obstructing justice in the matter.

Arnold is taking AIM at CAL EPA..because of the TECH and DEFENSE industries, this state deals with approximately 170 toxic chemicals that other states do NOT address. I CHALLENGE A SINGLE GREEN TO PROVE THEY COULD HAVE DONE BETTER with a full HALF of the legislature being Republican for Davis first term.



Oh and one more thing..the thing that cracks me up the most
are people who support Howard DEAN and Dennis Kucinich saying Gray Davis is TOO conservative. Read the above and you will see why...Davis increased women's rights and INCREASED the minimum wage and INCREASED union participation in the state while taking on OIL, DEVELOPERS and INSURANCE CARRIERS AND THE FERC. Ideologically Davis is CLEARLY to the left of both of them but just doesn't seem to resemble Che Guevara enough for some people's tastes...Nevermind that he is governor for a state with 35 million people and half of them are bigots that think every problem we have is because of mexicans (while they eat Taco Bell)

[realFedUp]

1. Good summary of what's been done under Dem leadership

and this is despite a really conservative group
of Republicans in the Lege.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Yeah but you aren't a Green..I want to see a Green actually prove

Camejo can gather the support in the assembly and senate to do ANY better.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. Wow a thread about greens that has been up for 10 minutes with no replies

I'm finally shocked but not surprised.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jiacinto]

4. Good post

I totally agree with what you say. Great post.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. Well here is ONE Green thread that won't be a flame war

apparently

[IndianaGreen]

7. Bustamante will make the better governor!

Caesar Chavez Holiday

Honoring the founder and long-time leader of the United Farmworkers of America, the governor signed a bill declaring March 31, as Cesar Chavez Day in California. The bill, establishing the first paid state holiday in the nation to recognize Chavez, also requires the development of a curriculum to teach children about non-violence and economic justice, and encourages students to participate in community service activities through AmeriCorps and the California Conservation Corps.

BTW, in case you didn't know this, the person behind the drive to have a Cesar Chavez holiday was not a Democrat at all, but a Red Latina. Evelina Alarcon is a Vice Chair of the Communist Party USA and she is also Chair of the CPUSA Southern California District. Comrade Alarcon wrote extensively about the strugle to get the Chavez Holiday enacted into law in the party's publication, People's Weekly World.

All Davis did was to sign the bill.

Here is more:

Winning a national holiday for Cesar Chavez is a crucial part of uniting our class and people, of building Black-Brown-white unity and multi-racial, multi-national unity. It is a holiday which recognizes the class struggle, the leading role of labor.

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/V80/8008/0801highlights.html

Cesar E. Chavez Holiday Campaign

Press Release
Los Angeles
8/10/2000

Statement issued by:

Evelina Alarcon, State Coordinator
Cesar E. Chavez Holiday Campaign

Cesar Chavez legacy will inspire for all time!

The stage was set for history to be made when the state legislature voted today to approve a bill to create a paid state holiday in honor of Cesar E. Chavez, the late founder and president of the United Farm Workers of America AFL-CIO. When signed by Governor Gray Davis, this holiday will mark the first time in our country that a Mexican American and labor leader will ever receive this honor.

It took nearly one year and a half to convince the legislature that millions in our state feel passionately about Cesar Chavez. It took the gathering of signatures from over 160,000 people on petitions, postcards and letters. It took rallies, candlelight vigils, human billboards, labor/community actions, an internet network, resolutions from city councils, school boards, county boards of supervisors and organizations from across the state.

The campaign was led and organized by ordinary people who gave of their volunteer time to insure that the life's work of their hero would be recognized by their children and the generations to come.

Cesar Chavez touched millions of us in a way that will stay with us forever. He inspired us with his selfless devotion to the fight for farm workers rights, civil rights, environmental justice and non-violence. He gave us confidence that with organization, unity and sacrifice that we could win our cause. He gave us courage and dignity in the face of discrimination and economic injustice. He taught us how to stand tall and overcome.

http://www.sfsu.edu/~cecipp/cesar_chavez/holidaysign.htm

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. dAVIS IS THE governor NOT the legislature as evidence by your post

If Bustamante will make a better governor then why is he NOT polling higher than Davis?

The state isn't communist..it's in America and half of the state is conservative/repub/ libertarian.

But don't bother responding to anything I said...change the subject. BTW, I KNOW Delores Huerta who was VERY instrumental in gaining respect for this bill/ My father worked with Ceasar Chavez. The bill made it to Davis thanks to the Dems that you compare to Republicans every day on this board. This is my state where I arrend public policy hearings regularly for the last 22 years.

Oh and one last point....why didn't Wilson sign this?

[Classical_Liberal]

14. If they did dispute your facts you would call them stupid

and moron, and nothing would be done. So there you go. Discussion my butt. You flame Bustumante supporters.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. ?

this makes no sense so I have no response other than to say if it made sense I would have a response.

I will be gone for the day now so if you can make sense of what you just said I may have a response later.

Having a point makes it so much more interesting for the reader BTW.

[Cheswick2.0]

19. "Having a point makes it so much more interesting for the reader BTW."

LOL! :hi:

[Loyal]

35. LMAO!

:)

[Booberdawg]

23. Stuff and nonsense

That's absurd. :eyes:

I think it's rather that the postions you take crumble when subjected to scrutiny. What you call "dispute" often resembles spin and circular logic, and you seem to be particularly stubborn about having to have the same things proven over and over again and then still regurgitating it as if it has never been resolved.

I think you put your own fine self in this pickle.

Tell ya what - if NSMA calls you stupid or a moron, I'll alert it myself. I promise you it will get deleted. That would clearly be a personal attack.

[Classical_Liberal]

28. Did skinner say to stop the flame war or not?

?

[Booberdawg]

36. That was in HIS thread, not this one.

That singular admonishment does apply to this thread.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. It's a miracle...A Green / Dem thread that is up all afternoon

with no flames! Wonder why?

[_NorCal_D_]

41. Yes,

very interesting. :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. hmmm still no real takers..interesting

Jesus! Start a thread on actual policy and notice how silent the fireplace remains!

[jiacinto]

11. Yeah I know

nt

[Democat]

12. Davis or Cruz are on the left and they can actually win

Losers have no power in politics.

Remember when Nader pushed the idea that Bush and Gore were the same? Some people on the left think Arnold won't be too bad. Some people never learn.

[dsc]

13. i do take issue with using a small set of issues

to claim Davis is more liberal than Dean. I could easily use the death penalty and do the same thing. I do agree with the genearal idea of your post though.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. It really isn't a small set of issues and it isn't about Davis

being MORE liberal than Dean so much as claims that Davis is a conservative but I apologize..it's just that if one LOOKS at his record, although he GOVERNS from the center and is cautious he certainly is NO REPUBLICAN and warrants liberal credentials on MOSt aspects of policy.

[dsc]

24. Davis did two things which ticked me off

One is his almost Bush like support of the death penalty and the second is his aversion to parole. One case that is particularly heartbreaking is a kid who was outed by his step brother and shot him. He was an honor student with no record before killing his brother. The outing caused his father to disown him. He has spent over three times as long in jail as Nr. White did for murdering Muscone and Milk. He, and lots of others, should be shown some mercy. But I must say that I would support him in a heart beat.

[_NorCal_D_]

42. Davis supports the death penalty?

To my knowledge he hasn't signed a single death warrant.
:shrug:

[dsc]

44. If he didn't you can thank Rose Bird for that

she tied up the death process in California in knots for several years but he is a very strong supporter. No less than Pete Wilson is on record as praising Davis on crime issues.

[monobrau]

17. Just had this talk with a friend

I'm really impressed with Camejo, but this election is about approving a right wing coup.
In a broader sense, it seems to me that just showing up and voting your conscience on election day is not enough. If you support the underdog, you have to get the word out and build support prior to the election.
I hope to see a man of Camejo's caliber in the governor's office one day, but until then, I choose Davis or Bustamante to ward off a much more destructive force in my state.

[_NorCal_D_]

43. Thank you.

This recall must be thwarted at all costs.

[sandnsea]

18. Happens every time

If you want debate on DU, whatever you do, DON'T post facts!!!

Great post, Davis has clearly done alot for California. Too bad the Democratic leadership gets so caught up in politics that they forget the record speaks for itself.

On edit:

I stole this and posted it on Kerry's blog to the attention of Cali recall fighters. I hope you don't mind, I should have asked first and I'm sorry I didn't.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. No worries! Thanks for doing that!

Hope it helped.

[ButterflyBlood]

20. I agree with all except

the claim that Davis is more liberal than Dean or Kucinich. That's going too far.

Also about half the state being bigots. If that was true it'd be a toss up state since half the state would be voting Republican, but that clearly isn't happening. Perhaps all the Republicans fall into that category, but that still isn't much.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. Read up on this history of prop 187 then respond

I would also draw your attention to Kucinich's votes on women's rights versus Davis' stand..it all depends on where one draws the lines and who the one IS drawing the lines.

Davis is FAR from perfect but FAR from conservative,or anti- worker, or anti- environment or PRO CORPORATE ( as he is often accused) as his record clearly demonstrates.

One cannot make life absolutely miserable for corporations in a state where 35 million people expect the opportunity to work.

HE has done an excellent job of holding the line and still regulating commerce.

The state lost nearly 300,000 jobs..the country I believe has lost close to 3 million/...that appears to be less per capita than many states.

[oxycontinrush]

22. Because Ahhnold will let Enron off the hook for $9 BIL

There are threads all over this site with the revelations that Ahhnold plans to let Ken Lay and Enron off the hook for the $9 BIL they cheated out of Californians. That's just too great a sum of money to force California residents to eat the loss of.

Hold your nose if you have to while you are casting your vote, but make sure your vote counts in preventing Ahhnold from stealing the Governor's mansion for Kenny Lay. It won't if you vote Green.

[Terwilliger]

25. kick for the Greens defending Camejo

[nomaco-10]

48. a kick for you at # 47

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Booberdawg]

26. Good information here - deserves a kick

:kick:

[noiretextatique]

27. do you recommend bustamante or davis?

which democrat has the better chance of keeping the governorship in the D column? i will vote no on the recall, per the green party recommendation, but i am not sure which candidate has the best chance of winnning the election...bustamante or davis? this is generally how i decide who to vote for in close elections: i vote for the most liberal candidate, with the best chance of winning.
iyho, is that bustamante...or davis?

[Booberdawg]

29. Davis is not on the second part of the ballot

Davis is not an option of the candidateds running for office - his win comes from winning a NO ON THE RECALL part of the ballot.

So to answer your question, you'd vote for Bustamante on the second part of the ballot.

[noiretextatique]

32. thanks...i thought so, but the post was confusing nt

[Booberdawg]

33. my pleasure, ma'am

:hi:

[David Zephyr]

30. Thank You NSMA for This.

We will be phone banking here Tuesday to save our great Golden State from this sickening crowd.

Please vote No on Recall and Vote for Bustamante on the Second Choice.

[_NorCal_D_]

45. Yes,

I'll be dragging as many individuals to the polls as I can come Tuesday.

No on Recall, Yes on Bustamante! (I believe Bustamante is number 75 on the recall ballot, lol.)

[quaker bill]

31. I got no dog in this fight

Living in FLA.

I was impressed with Camejo. I think Bustamonte would make a good governor as well. From everything I have read, you really can't hold Davis that responsible for the budget mess that was clearly manufactured out of state by corporate criminals aided and abetted by the Bush* administration.

I think Californian's should vote no on the recall simply because I see it as Repugnican electioneering.

Here's to hoping the gropinator loses.

[nomaco-10]

47. We all have a dog in this fight

Yes, you do have a dog in this fight if you're a democrat. We should all be fighting to stop the dirty politics of the repukes whether it's in California or for the White House. You live in Fla., well, I live in Tn., the stakes are high all over this country to stop our democracy from being hijacked by the corporate elitists and the fundamental right. Step aside Greens, you're nothing more than a talking point at a cocktail party trying to convince people how "cool and hip" you are. You are an irrelevant footnote in politics.

[Terwilliger]

49. good for you

and like I've said to others, when you lose in 04, DONT FUCKING DARE BLAME THE GREENS!!

You're all so self-superior and your way is the ONLY way...fine...that means Nader and the Greens are NON-INFLUENTIAL, which means your haranguing them is even MORE baseless. Thanks for showing your knee-jerk, sheep partisanship.

OnEdit: no "y" in haranguing

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

50. In fairness to you AND me in this matter...

I posted Davis' accomplishments in a way to evoke a conversation about POLICY. Nobody has responded to POLICY. I would BET my life that GREENS were instrumental in pushing DEMS to PUSH Davis to SIGN some of thiis legislation.

My REAL point in THIS thread was NOT about partisan politics and NOT about marginalizing Greens but about the many things Davis has done (that while he has also displeaed Greens) SHOULD please Greens. We are one of the ONLY states to have such an energy program promoting RENEWABLE sources and WIND.

So please Ter...give me ONE TINY break. I dodn't frame this thread as a SMEAR to anyone. I asked how Camejo could impliment ANY of his programs in a state divided.

This was NOT about partisan politics but asking how Camejo could possibly do BETTER in this political climate.

[Terwilliger]

51. ok, I was responding to nomaco

and you can take his words as anything other than a straight-forward attack...but that's up to you

I have nothing but respect for you. If Davis is so great, why do so-many state Democrats not like him? Are they all fringe-leftists? They all hate AHH-nold and the recall, but that doesn't change their opinion.

I'll defer to your judgement on Camejo. I'm a neophyte blowhard, not a legislator. I'll note my disdain, but give you the benefit of the doubt.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. They watch the same news you do

Davis is FAR from personable and always hes been. The state is facing many hardships from without and within. People look to blam soneone when life gets tough. Dems are no different than Repubs on this.

[Terwilliger]

53. Teena, that is simplistic

it should be beneath you. You know what's happening...but some Democrats are dumb.

I'm referring to well-educated, knowledgeable people...lawyers, doctors, other people from all walks-of-life who don't like Davis...whteher for one reason or another. This is not some group of dummies! :shrug:

These people aren't programmed, FFS!

FYI, I don't watch local news...I listen to Pacifica or read state papers for news.

[Booberdawg]

37. good morning!

[IndianaGreen]

38. welcome to the echo chamber

diversity of ideas not wanted.

[Booberdawg]

40. I think the topic could still be approached within the guidelines

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

46. You could alter that by posting an actual rebuttal to my post

It is obvious that you can't because (just as you accused Carlos of not knowing Indiana) you do not know my state.

I would love to see you have a diverse idea but so far in response to my posts on this matter, all you have done is cut and paste.

[REP]

39. Sorry, Can't Help

I like Davis. I think he's a better than average Gov, and that he was absofuckinglutely right about the energy crisis. I am grateful for what he did to protect women's and workers' rights. I even like that he's not a 'colorful' character; he's always struck me as a thoughtful person, and to me that's more important than glibness when managing a state the size of California.

I'm originally from Missouri, and Davis reminds me a little of one of Missouri's great governors - Mel Carnahan. Carnahan was more 'likeable' in front of the cameras, but like Davis, he took serious action on serious issues. When I moved here, I was happy to vote for Davis and have never regretted it - even though it's now $58 to renew my car's registration. I live here, I use the roads; paying a little more doesn't really piss me off.

I used to work with one of Cesar Chavez's nieces, and for the little it's worth, she likes Davis, too!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

54. One more kick for a response grounded in facts

[Booberdawg]

55. good morning!

:hi:

[The Zanti Regent]

56. Another kick!

Thanks NSMA!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

57. kick

[Armstead]

58. Kick

I live on the otehr side of the continent and don't know much about internal Cally politics.

But NMSA makes a good point here and it would be interesting to hear liberal/progressive opponents of Davis explain whay the hell they think putting Arnie and the GOP in charge would be an improvement.

I did watch the debate, and it seems to me like you'll are about to sell your state down the river if you don't do whatever is necessary to keep the Terminator from replacing Davis.

[Seneca]

59. fantastic post

NO on the recall, YES on Bustamante.

I truly think MOST Californians do NOT hold Davis responsible for the fix they're in. The GOP propaganda machine has been enormously successful in tricking many (I still don't think most) to believe otherwise. Perhaps the founders of this nation were right about the "mobocracy", for the California GOP has mobs of misinformed voters in a frenzy of misdirected blame and fury over a governor who really hasn't done so bad for the people. Have they forgotten Pete Wilson already? The recall is a smokescreen for the problems BUSH and ENRON and so many others have inflicted upon the state, and hey, don't those 50+ electoral votes for 2004 look good? Arnold can pull a Jeb/Harris for Bush. Don't think they wouldn't try!

It is NOT inevitable Schwarzenegger will be governor, so it is IMPERATIVE to get out there, and VOTE NO on the recall.

[Iverson]

61. reply

First of all, I applaud your starting and maintaining a thread where the emphasis is policy issues.

I would prefer to see one or more California Greens respond. I cannot directly answer your challenge, but I can pass along a couple of thoughts from here in Michigan.

First of all, the challenge is loaded. That is: no one can ever prove ahead of time that a candidate will get good things done if elected to office. That applies to everyone, but by focusing the challenge only at Greens, the conclusion is supposed to be that therefore someone else (i.e.- Bustamente) deserves the votes of Camejo supporters. In fact, no one can prove ahead of time that Bustamente will get good things done either.

Second, there is nothing unusual about electing someone to an executive office where he or she faces a hostile legislature. Therefore, the measure of "getting things done" is not a reliable indicator of political deservedness. Mussolini "got things done." A candidate deserves votes for multiple reasons, most poignantly that their politics represents their constituents.

Third, this is a cheap shot:
"What do they think Camejo will be able to do? Govern by FIAT??"
Once again, it is impossible to engage Greens on DU without hostile projection. Too bad.

Fourth, I was not under the impression that Davis was on the ballot. When you refer to voting for Davis, do you mean voting no on the recall? You are aware that a "no" vote is the Green position.

Most of the rest was information that I'm glad to have read.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. Thankyou

First of all, the challenge is loaded. That is: no one can ever prove ahead of time that a candidate will get good things done if elected to office. That applies to everyone, but by focusing the challenge only at Greens, the conclusion is supposed to be that therefore someone else (i.e.- Bustamente) deserves the votes of Camejo supporters. In fact, no one can prove ahead of time that Bustamente will get good things done either.

While I agree that one cannot necessarily PROVE a clam in advance, I do believe the record of the California Democratic party speaks for itself on attempting to provide something for Greens to vote for and that was the challenge placed to me in another thread. Bustamante DOES have a record in that he has been active in the lawsuit against Enron and has a stellar record on the rights of the most vulnerable i.e. the poor.

Second, there is nothing unusual about electing someone to an executive office where he or she faces a hostile legislature. Therefore, the measure of "getting things done" is not a reliable indicator of political deservedness. Mussolini "got things done." A candidate deserves votes for multiple reasons, most poignantly that their politics represents their constituents.

Agreed. This is where I feel the Dems outpace the Greens in that their constituents are a much broader base who share MANY of the same issues as Greens but goes beyond. A great example is the Green party position on living wage. While it is noble and necessary, it is also noble that Dems have protected a minimum wage. California's is higher than most of the nation and the Dems have done what they could to make housing affordable against a flurry of developer interests, and make healthcare available in the more populous counties so that even if one DOES NOT make a living wage, they stand a chance of being treated like a human being and having a roof over their head.

Mandating a living wage may HURT the small business. In Santa Monica a small restaurant who has to pay higher wages cannot possibly compete against an CHAIN restaurant with loads of corporate bucks. In that regard, Greens actually HURT the small fry in place of the corporation they hate so much.


Fourth, I was not under the impression that Davis was on the ballot. When you refer to voting for Davis, do you mean voting no on the recall? You are aware that a "no" vote is the Green position.

Yes, the Green party ultimately took that position after Camejo jockeyed all last year to see the recall petitions signed.

[Booberdawg]

63. kick

[Cheswick2.0]

64. kick

!