What does this Dean statement mean?

[ModerateMiddle]

I posted this in P&C and got a few responses, but I'm looking for an explanation of the wording of Dean's answer. Granted, I do not have the entire transcript, just this quote, but I'm wondering what he means by it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41684-2003Oct3.html

I was reading the linked article and my brain short-circuited at the following quote:

Dean warned that "we can't get all weepy and liberal about this

Here's the context, per the WaPo:

Another student wondered what Dean might do to lessen the number of African Americans in prison. Dean warned that "we can't get all weepy and liberal about this," but promised to treat substance abuse as a medical issue, rather than a "criminal problem," and to fight racism in sentencing.

But what does he mean, "weepy and liberal"?

[realFedUp]

1. Why don't you go to the website and post on the blog

ask the question.

http://www.deanforamerica.com

[ModerateMiddle]

7. I have read on that blog

a total of like two times. I wouldn't be able to follow up for the answers there. Do you think that I would get an official answer from the campaign by posting on their blog?

[TakebackAmerica]

2. Mr kplongco

We're all on the same team. Stop trashing the good doctor.
The more desparate the Kerry people get the more respct I lose for John Kerry.

[ModerateMiddle]

5. Desperate?

According to a lot of people, Dean may very well be our next President. I asked what he meant. This is bashing?

(On edit: It's MS kplongco.)

[liberalnurse]

6. Here Here!

I find the Kerry people to ask questions that only evoke dicord vs. legitimate debate and inquiry.

If one really wants to know the answer to a question then share it in that format...

Thank you for your compliance.

An accurate link would be most helpful.



What I do know, is Dean wants to focus on utilizing the drug rehab and after-care approach to reduce the escalating prison census of drug related imprisonment. A large population of African-American inmates are incarcerated for drug charges which could be diverted into a rehabilitation option.

[ModerateMiddle]

8. The link was wrong?

I clicked it again, and it worked. That's where I saw the quote. That's what I am linking. What is it you expected me to link?

If one really wants to know the answer to a question then share it in that format...

What format? Are you asking me to ask the question on the blog? That would be a helluva lot of work - not to ask, but to sift through looking for the answer.

I will try it if folks think it might get answered, though.

[liberalnurse]

17. I can only speculate here.....

knowing how Dean desires to reduce the inmate population....I sense he wants to be proactive about addressing the issue instead of whinning about it and complaining....

Many communities have a drug diversion program but they are poorly funded, the outpatient plan is reasonable but remains on a shoe-string from a funding perspective. A greater funded program can increase the stats for successful recovery. That takes a proactive approach. Thats where I believe he speaks of weeping and liberal....suggesting we complain but have no action steps to make change.

Not an offensive term in this content.

[LuminousX]

3. Can't speak for Dean

And anyone who does address this would only be speculating what Dean meant. Your best bet is to ask the Dean campaign for an explanation of what he meant by this.

[HFishbine]

4. You'd really have to ask him to be sure

but it sounds to me as if he's saying that if we want to move away from imprisioning people for drug habits and provide treatment as an alternate course, we must move the policy forward in a pragmatic way rather than in an emotional way.

(on edit: BTW, I saw no sinister motive in your question. You provided the context for fair understanding and made no accusations or insinuations in your question -- not bad for a Kerry supporter.)

[aeon flux]

10. Maybe not the best way to put it

A rare and mild verbal gaffe from the good doctor, but not anywhere near as frequent or as offensive those constantly made by folks like Limbaugh, Bush and Arnold S.

[cprise]

12. It's a huge probelm and I'm glad they asked him

I think easing the establishment attack-dogs off those communities and focusing on rehabilitation would be the place to start.

It seems Dean considers liberalism to be too emotionally-loaded now to get past feelings of persecution. I'd like to know if he considers himself to be a progressive.

[janekat]

40. He sends out literature stating that he is a "Progressive"

Alos, his statement that "I'm from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" would tend to point to that.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

47. Was Reagan "progressive?"

[Rose Siding]

9. I think it means he isn't going to empty the prisons

of violent offenders just because they've had rough lives. He's throwing off a media cliche that has damaged the image of liberals for decades.

Most importantly, he makes the point that he will treat drug addiction as a medical issue and not a criminal one. This weepy lib likes that idea :-)

[ozone_man]

24. You have the perfect interpretation IMO.

A few unusual words, I admit, but I'm not one in a position to criticize. What is important are the meaning and feelings conveyed. Mincing a few words is only human.

Could you imagine a debate between Dean and Bush. I would be embarassed to watch. My family has derived much pleasure reading a book called the Bush lexicon (or dyslexicon?). Anyway, I go more by people's meanings and actions than by the fluency of their speech.

[Pepperbelly]

11. So Dean offers more of the same in this area.

Weepy and liberal?

What a punk.

[Rose Siding]

14. Isn't that a little like

me taking one of your candidates statements about Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz and saying "So Clark offers more of the same in this area. Hail to the cabal? What a punk"?

[Pepperbelly]

16. that is what they do all the time ...

and at every opportunity.

Want me to feel bad about it when Dean steps on his dick like he did in this egregious remark? Geee, the Deanies slander my guy with everything that they can whether true or not and you object to your guy getting a little back.

Whatever.

[liberalnurse]

19. Oh, I think your

nepotism is showing!!!!!!

[Rose Siding]

21. What I (they) usually (all the time) do

is try to reason about things like how the image of liberals being weepy is worth dispelling. "What a punk" is the egregious remark in this conversation, imo.

[Name removed]

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[bicentennial_baby]

36. that's pretty fucked up

Maybe you should check yourself before you wreck yourself...

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[clar]

38. It's the net nannie here

you may recall labeling me thus. I happily accept the label. At least I don't stoop to conquer, using offensive language and the less than convincing rationale that becaouse others act offensively, I'm justified in doing so. Nothing like rationalizing boorish behavior. I'm sure your cousin Wesley would be proud of you. BTW, I have enough sense not to be turned off by obnoxious supporters of candidates. It's the supporters I scorn, not the candidates.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

44. "your cousin Wesley"?

Is that snarkasm or ... ?

[clar]

56. No

As PB has oft told us, Wesley Clark is his cousin.

[janekat]

42. They are so ultra- sensitive - don't you know we're not alllowed to ask

any questions about any statements he makes or his stance on any positions - it's bashing.

Kerry and Clark people are called "whiners" for objecting to threads titled "Wesley Clark (or Kerry) is a War Criminal." The double-standard is astounding...

[Forkboy]

55. I see supporters of Clark,Dean and Kerry

acting the same way here all the time.One's supporters trying to take the high ground on the others is a joke.

[liberalnurse]

18. So predictable.....

Have you ever read any of Deans statements on rehabilitation?

Have you worked or visited a prison? Have you seen the disparity of
incarcerated African-American inmates due to drug charges, such as crack vs white cocaine use?

If not, do some research before you blow off the good doctor when I'm on the board.

[Bread and Circus]

20. Yeah, I have...

but I didn't get "all weepy and liberal" about it.

[liberalnurse]

22. Since we only have a "snip"

to discuss.....and not the full text, we can only assist the poster by offering an educated guess. Read my reply # 17.

[liberalnurse]

45. Good!

Then we can count on you to back Howard Dean to impliment the prison reform plan! Great.

[Duder]

13. It means...

Dean is looking ahead towards running against Bush, while some candidates and their supporters are still running against Dean, imo.

[janx]

15. I would not even hazard a guess without seeing the quote in context.

I'll look at the article...

[A-Schwarzenegger]

23. Obviously he means that he does not like black people

and that they should be in prison. Therefore,
I am changing my vote from Dean to Kerry.

[liberalnurse]

25. That is the most ignorant

statement I have ever seen on DU. I'm going to alert the mods!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

28. There are worst things than ignorance.

Like being dull as a sack of drunk weasels.

[liberalnurse]

31. I do not approve of racist statements.

I'ts not the way of true democrats.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

32. Dean's statement was not racist.

You need to see the difference between
what somebody says and what somebody means.

[liberalnurse]

43. I was not referring to Dean at all....

I see Dean as an advocate, a uniter of all races!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

46. Me too liberalnurse. Bless you.

I hope we ironed this out in PM?
Thank you for your commitment to prison reform.
(I am changing my vote back to Dean.)

[liberalnurse]

49. Good, and I am glad to see this

discussion has fruitful dividends. :bounce:

[JohnKleeb]

26. good question

liberal means open minded. I dont know, I will try to be fair on this but this honestly confuses me.

[liberalnurse]

27. It's only confusing when posters

deliberately use "trigger flame words" taken out of the contents of the paragraph. Yes, if you have not read extensively on Dean's rehab plan for inmates, it would indeed be confusing. Read my reply #17 to a brief explaination.

The intent of the post was to flame anyways. I'm trying to keep things adult here.....probably a set-up for failure on my part.

[JohnKleeb]

29. can you show me the context of it please

Then I can make a judgement. Trying to be fair here LN glad you didnt got on me for it. ok
Took a look at it and I think you could be right, maybe he did mean lets not complain about it and not have a plan but thats not what being liberal is, perhaps weepy but I often see the term weep like weeping, weeping in my dictionary (personal lol) is mourning like as in "I weeped at the funeral of my father". I dunno, if this was his point I'd prefer he word it better, but being liberal isnt complaining without a plan. ok.

[liberalnurse]

33. I don't really split hairs on words...I seek out the message.

I recognize the priority prison reform needs to take. I've worked in many levels of incarceration veneues. The problem has exisited during our democratic reign without effective reform. We need a proactive stance on this issue. The current approach is weak. The problem has been noted for years! Action has not been on the forfront of democratic platforms, but the complaints have always been there without an action momentum.


Dean is the first to take a lead on this necessary reform.

[JohnKleeb]

34. Yes I know

Lord only knows I know. Reform thats what I am all about. You mean drug law reform? I am all for it.

[liberalnurse]

37. Actually, both law and the utilization of drug diversion programs.

Dealers are another matter but the user needs the opportunity to find sobriety in an effective, not cheap, superficial drug rehabilitation plan. We all know how to impliment effective rehabilitation... Thats not the problem...its the funding and encompassing the community to support the efforts thats the problem.

[JohnKleeb]

41. I prefer a European style program to what we got now

Thats just me, being a far left democrat.

[theemu]

39. Irony

i·ro·ny
n. pl. i·ro·nies

The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

48. Don't try it at home.

[janekat]

50. Dean: More funding given to Prosecutors, Cuts to Public Defenders

http://rutlandherald.com/Archive/Articles/Article/31792

"....Just two years ago Dean tried to prevent Appel from accepting a $150,000 federal grant aimed at assisting defendants with mental disabilities. For Dean to block a government agency from receiving federal money was unusual in itself. But Dean’s openly expressed bias against criminal defendants provided a partial explanation.

Dean has made no secret of his belief that the justice system gives all the breaks to defendants. Consequently, during the 1990s, state’s attorneys, police, and corrections all received budget increases vastly exceeding increases enjoyed by the defender general’s office. That meant the state’s attorneys were able to round up ever increasing numbers of criminal defendants, but the public defenders were not given comparable resources to respond.

The problem with giving a disproportionate share of state resources to prosecution and enforcement is that it throws the justice system out of kilter. A just result occurs in court only when the prosecution and defense both are ably represented."

(snip)

[kayleybeth]

53. I wish he would address this:

"....Just two years ago Dean tried to prevent Appel from accepting a $150,000 federal grant aimed at assisting defendants with mental disabilities."

I like Dean but that just sounds cruel. I've also read something about him cutting benefits for the poor and disabled before anything else when he was balancing the state budget. I have a child with mental and physical disabilities. If that stuff about Dean is true it knocks him down several notches for me (from 2nd to 9th). At any rate, he needs to address it because this info is now making the rounds and will take on a life of its own if left unanswered.

[janekat]

51. Dean to Public Defenders: My job to make your job as difficult as possibl

http://www.talkleft.com/archives/003739.html
More on Howard Dean and Criminal Defendants
We wrote last week about a Vermont newspaper editorial critical of Howard Dean's view of indigent defense and criminal defendants while he was Governor of Vermont. We were hoping he would address this on his blog and debunk the charge. We haven't seen any response. But we did receive this from a lawyer whose integrity we trust and who was a former public defender in Vermont.

"I was a public defender in Vermont during part of Dean's tenure. He was openly hostile to the defense function. He once addressed a meeting of defense attorneys by stating that "my job is to make your job as difficult as possible." He is a man of his word, at least on this campaign promise. He did not want to fund public defense.

To his credit he appointed Robert Appel to the post of Defender General (Public Defender in charge of the state system.) Then he refused to reappoint Appel apparently because Robert was most effective on the shoestring budget he was given.

Dean, despite his present self proclaimed environmental advocate status, was fairly hostile to environmental concerns while Governor. Dean repeatedly appointed pro business, non environmentally sensitive people to the Environmental Board. In Dean's logic, any business that would provide a half dozen minimal wage jobs could do what they wanted to the environment. When I returned to New Jersey, I could observe that the only real difference between N.J. and VT environmentally (at least under Dean) was that VT had 7.5 million less residents."

[Name removed]

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[ozone_man]

57. Looks like this was interpreted from a Rutland Herald editorial.

They are the most conservative newspaper in the state (Replublican central). I would look for a more balanced newspaper. Montpelier Time Argus or even the Burlington Free Press, but the latter is owned by Gannett (USA today), so their editorial board is somewhat conservative.

In any case, this appears to be a derivative of Robert Appel's half of the story, and any good journalist knows that you need to cover both sides.

It would be interesting to hear Dean's side of the story. I live in VT, so you generally hear most news, and certainly I remember Appel's name, I just don't remember much else about him. I do remember that the public defenders were back logged.

Another link for Appel, after he was let go (maybe he took this job after?).

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/oitm/issues/2002/01JAN2002/news02_vhrc.htm

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/oitm/issues/2002/01JAN2002/news01_vhrcdir.htm

It must be pretty slim pickings trying to find dirt on Howard Dean. I mean VT wouldn't allow for bad politicians. We run them (crooked flatlanders) out of the state, send 'em packing to NJ or beyond.

On edit: Just kidding about that flatlander comment, we welcome flatlanders to Vermont, just not crooked politicians. E.g., Ira Allen, brother of famous Ethan Allen. He founded UVM no less, but went bankrupt, using Ed Burling's money to invest in land before the Revolutionary war. Ran him clean out of VT all the way to Pennsylvania.

[dkf]

52. To me this means

that we can't give people a pass if they have done something wrong, but we must find real solutions rather than just emoting.

I think his ideas about rehab vs. prison for drug problems, reducing inequity in sentencing, and trying to better the lives of our kids to prevent crime really do try to address the problem.

He could have gone on about how it was wrong wrong wrong and pander pander pander, but instead he gave practical solutions that can produce substantive results for these communities.

In short, he wants to deliver, not just sympathize.