I Just Got Stomped on By Midwestern Republicans

[leftylady]

Unfortunately I am not a good fighter.

No one here thinks Bush did anything wrong. God caused the hurrican - not Bush. And the louisiana govt dropped the ball.

So much for hope!

I don't understand how we can all read the same stuff and come away with such different opinions and ideas.

They think I'm stupid and I think they are stupid. We are not getting anywhere.

[KyndCulture]

1. Do what I do.. tell them to shut the fuck up,

get out of our way, and we'll fix it for them and their squandered lives and rights too...

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. I'm in the midwest, and they are taking off their W stickers here

falling support, and quickly.

[leftylady]

7. lucky you!

Course, I work at a bank and I guess you would expect the more conservative people to be in a bank.

But now I have a bad headache and wish I could just go home.

Oh, and Clinton isn't trustworthy not because he had an affair - but because he lied about it.

That is so wierd.

[cbear70]

11. I hear ya

Also having trouble.. in eastern Iowa and hearing about almighty Bush and immoral clinton... give me a break. Some have turned but not enough.

[FreedomAngel82]

19. What I would say about that

is: that's your business why? It had nothing to do with national security unlike say lying about war and killing thousands of people.

[LizMoonstar]

20. Davenport?

So far, I'm lucky in the QC - pretty blue for the midwest, but it's that Illinois influence ;)
can you tell I live on the IL side?

[cbear70]

39. nope south of the QC

very red area...

[LizMoonstar]

51. eeeeeeee sorry to hear that!

come on up and visit 'civilization' any time!

[girl gone mad]

10. Same thing in North Texas.

I drove for several hours between Dallas and Fort Worth yesterday, and for the first time in YEARS, I saw NOT ONE BUSH BUMPERSTICKER.

I was amazed.

[crispini]

38. You're right. The number is way down in TX.

I saw one the other day. I flipped her off. I know I shouldn't have -- I never do that -- but I did. Having been the recipient of 'the finger' for my political views at least once before, I don't feel OK but I think it's understandable. (I know it wasn't my driving, I was driving very well and anyway we were all stopped at a red light at the time.)

[NotThatNolan]

25. I wish I could second your experience

but I can't. If anything I've seen a surge of Bush love around here since Katrina, and I'm on a college campus. A goddamn college campus and its filled with brainwashed Republican kids. I must attend the only conservative university on the planet.

But what are ya gonna do? It's in-state tuition and the state happens to be the Texas of the Midwest.

[Ms. Clio]

65. welcome to DU, you'll find lots of like-minded folks here, anyway!

[WildEyedLiberal]

68. I was all boggled by your post...

... until I saw that you were from Indiana. I'm sorry. :( You should come a bit west where it's nice and blue! :D

Welcome to DU from a Fighting Illini :hi:

[maxsolomon]

3. and you never will

anything can be explained away except a blowjob.

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. The facts will prove them wrong

and a lot of the facts are now a matter or public record. Nagin and Blanco did a very good job during the storm letting people know what was going on. The local papers in LA are a treasure trove for the truth. In the end, these two are going to come out smelling like roses and the stench from DC will be overwhelming.

[FlemingsGhost]

5. Their day will come ...

When their own lives are affected, watch 'em change their tune.

Then, laugh ... and walk away.

[minerva50]

15. A lot of Katrina victims still defend Bush

I've been reading bulletin boards at the NOLA.com site, looking for news about my sister's neighborhood in Mandeville. They've got a sound-off thread, and there's a lot of emotion on both sides.

[Skidmore]

6. God might have caused the hurricaine, but * caused the

disaster that followed.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

62. isn't even that much giving them credit? Global warming had a bit in this

and the warm pond of the Gulf has not been this warm so soon in a season. That heat is an engine for storms, and ergo, the hurricane was worse.

Bush and his oil cronies also blocked Kyoto and have turned back other rules.

[LisaM]

8. Tell them about the neighboring white suburb

(Gretna) that locked down and wouldn't let people from NO evacuate.

[wtmusic]

9. Ask if they're the last ones out the door

if they would please turn off the lights.

[leftylady]

13. I feel like I a total stranger in a strange land

I seem to be the only one I know who disagrees with these guys. And I'm not very fast on my feet so I am pretty helpless here.

How come everyone I vote for loses? Does that make me a loser.

[ernstbass]

35. No it doesn't make you a loser

And I know what you mean about arguing. I'm not very good at it either. I get rattled very easily. You are not alone out there - we are with you!!

[wtmusic]

36. certainly not

and DU is the "strange land" where you belong! :hug:

[I Have A Dream]

88. Many of us feel the same way that you do, leftylady.

I always do everything in my power to help the person that I support win, but I don't feel that his/her not winning is any reflection on me. I'm proud that I'm willing to march to the beat of a different drum if I hear a different drum than those other people, which is definitely the case in reference to politicians that I support today.

I'm sure that you know it, but winning an election does not make the winner the best person to hold the office. I'll continue to vote for the person who will do the best job.

In reference to not being very fast on your feet, maybe you should start bookmarking threads as you see them here at DU if you think that they might be helpful at some point in the future. This has been invaluable to me recently, especially when some of the search capabilities are turned off because of the high traffic levels here.

Please don't get disillusioned or disheartened. You are the person among all of them who is doing the right thing. That takes real guts and you deserve to be respected. Maybe they don't realize it, but WE do! :hug:

[Holly_Hobby]

12. "God caused the hurricane"

So why is the gov't answer to the death and destruction a day of prayer?

[leftylady]

16. I really don't think God has much to do with hurricanes

Its just the way of the world.

But I guess we need to blame someone, huh.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. My mother told me

earlier this week this older lady said God cause the hurricane. My reply to that is global warming. Scientists, and Al Gore, have been talking about this for years and scientists have been predicting that it will happen and specifically targeted New Orleans. It had nothing to do with God because in Genesis after the flood happened God promised that he wouldn't flood the earth again.

[bobbieinok]

83. anticipated religious wrong answer: LA, MS, AL not 'all the earth' so not

a valid argument

religious wrong believe Noah flood covered all the earth ..... not just a part; not just a part or all of ME but the entire earth

[demobabe]

40. God's Hurricanes

If God is so fond of Christians, how come He sends hurricanes *every* *single* *year* right at the Bible belt?

[leftylady]

48. People Shouldn't Be Living on the Delta

It was a swamp before we came and it may just go back to its natural state.

Like who would want to live in Florida? Its just one bad storm after another.

[dogday]

14. They think G W's crap don't stink. It does

The President is ultimately responsible for the failures after the storm not before, although the case can also be made before, because fema was not in place when disaster area declared by President on 8-28.

We have all seen the pleading for food and water and the people dying in the heat and the dead on the streets. Where was our precious federal government? The President should of been on top of this from the start. He is the ultimate responsible person we turn to and he was not there for us....

[leftylady]

18. Well, that's what I think.

If the whole adm. hadn't been on vacation it would have helped.

But I just can't stand Bush or Cheney and I just don't see what their appeal is?

[IN-dem]

24. I can't believe my uncle sent me this

My uncle that lives in the south sent this e-mail to me. I just can't believe people are really thinking this crap. BTW he claims to be a christian. I'm not good at debating anybody have anything that I can write back to him?

"I believe everyone has missed the whole point. GOD TOOK CARE OF THE SINFUL CITIES AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO. Just look at Sri Lanka and all the surrounding countries when the tusumni took place. All those places were sinful. GOD was, is and always will be in control.
P.S. Georgie didn't have anything to do with the levee. When the mayor stood up and pointed his finger at everyone else he had three pointing back at himself. He could have made people leave before the hurricane and did not do it. It would have been a whole lot easier to make them get out or take them out before the storm than after. The mayor and governor failed to do their jobs as far as I am concerned, but GOD took care of it, and always will."

[FreedomAngel82]

34. So ask him

why didn't God destroy the French Quarter? There was some other religious preacher, a Southern Baptist, I read in another thread saying God did that cause they supported Bush. :crazy:

[leftylady]

43. Then there is good ole Fred Phelps.

I don't think I've heard who he is blaming this flood on.

Isn't that crazy shit?

[Catherine Vincent]

42. Tell your uncle the mayor and governor did tell the people to leave.

That's what a "Mandatory Evacuation" is. Also your uncle is an idiot. Sorry about that.

[EC]

46. And what sin was perpetrated in Mississippi? ..n/t

[leftylady]

49. Black and poor is a sin

Isn't that just the saddest way to look at things? Poverty is all their fault.

[IN-dem]

53. Thats what I wrote back to him

I ask him what did these babies do that was so terrible? How did they sin..and I also told him that there are christian in New orleans to. I'm just shaking my head.

[leftylady]

54. Most of those poor, black people are very strong

Christians. They are mostly Baptist. And Evangelival. But they just aren't pushy like white evangelicals.

[JHB]

47. Whenever I hear this sort of vicious "holier than thou" crap...

...for some reason I start wondering what sort of barbecue sauce the Devil on them once they keel over and get to their final destination.

[leftylady]

50. These people aren't all awful

Some are very caring. They just see things down a different tunnel than I do.

[dogday]

67. I hate seeing the Christian Religion

being used for this purpose.

Jesus preached faith and hope and strength and love. None of these things are in the above email. Just a malicious statement that is intended to hurt people by its biased remarks is a sin by the person who wrote and sent it. Such a shame that evil works are glossed over by saying they are the works of God....

[IN-dem]

81. Another e-mail from my uncle

I ask him what the babies did to deserve being killed by the hurricane. And here is his response.

"Sin is sin and GOD hates sin. there is not different degrees of sin. If it is sin then it is sin. GOD does not hate anyone. He died on the Cross for all of our sins, but we have to ask Him into our hearts in order to be saved. The decisions made were made by the individuals. When babies are involved only GOD knows why He calls them home, but He never ever makes a wrong decision. He may not have wanted those babies to be raised in a sinful place as that. I can't answer that for Him. Only GOD can answer that"

[dogday]

85. I don't know if God hates sin ---I don't think he hates at all

but I know he loves sinners, he loves us all and the babies are just part of the families that lost their lives in a storm.

The problem is the label of sinful place-you know Mississippi was wiped out, were they sinful folk too, and lost their babies because of this mean God who showers his rage upon cities and babies.

Saying these malicious things in the name of God is such a slam on Christianity. They are hate statements, that simple. Nothing Christian going on in these emails, only hate and loathing....

[IN-dem]

89. I cut, copied & pasted all your comments

And sent them to my uncle. Here is what I sent to him:

"Why didn't God destroy the French Quarter? And what sin was perpetrated in Mississippi? Black and poor is a sin? There are christian in New orleans to.
After God flooded the earth the first time with Noah he made a promise to never flood the earth again. does God lie??? Also that's what a "Mandatory Evacuation" is....And the mayor and governer did order one."

His Response to the above:


Biloxi, Mississippi is a sin city too. You are right about the flood. He did not flood the whole earth. All I am saying is that it is not over yet. When he destroys the earth the next time it will be by fire and brimstone. Everyone has their opinions. We have 20 +/- people staying on our Church Property from MS.
(ALL BLACK) Just like they say, GOD seen fit to protect them from harm even though their homes were destroyed.
Everything that happens is because GOD permits it to happen, and it is for a reason only known to GOD. It has taken me a long time to understand that. I had to read my Bible to understand that. GOD chastises saved people too. He says we must go through trials and tribulations. GOD also says that if He brings you to it, He will bring you through it. Only people that are saved and understands the Bible understands what is happening. That is the reason that we Pray for everyone in our family and friends to be saved and live like JESUS CHRIST wants all of us to.
I hope I have not upset you. I just Love all of our family and friends and hope everyone gets their lives right with GOD before it is too late.
LOVE,
UNCLE XXXX

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. All the info you need is here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22507&mesg_id=22507

MOST importantly, if you can remember nothing else. Homeland Security is now the first responder for Natural Disasters. If anyone hands you the state and local gov't line you tell them they are behind the times. 9/11 changed everything and now it is the feds in the form of FEMA and DHS who are responsible.


------------------------------------------------------
Ditch Bu$h and save the Gulf: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22507&mesg_id=22507

Then save the nation!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[leftylady]

23. Thank you.

But I don't think information is going to help. No matter what happens there will be an excuse.

God caused the hurricane. How could anyone expect the govt. to make up for that.

Actually, it was that every death was caused by God - not humans.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. ok.. you remember that one the next time abortion comes up... God

sure has aborted a lot of people over time.. more than all women put together.


------------------------------------------------------
Ditch Bu$h and save the Gulf: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22507&mesg_id=22507

Then save the nation!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[FreedomAngel82]

37. Remind him

of the promise in Genesis. After God flooded the earth the first time with Noah he made a promise to never flood the earth again. Ask him: does God lie???

[Mythsaje]

79. My response to this...and if annoyed I'd use it...

"Then your God's an asshole. Sorry 'bout that."

[zbdent]

21. Who said Bush CAUSED the hurricane?

At the most, the policies which he pushes can cause hurricanes to become more devastating.

Demand proof from the motherf*ckers . . .

[blm]

58. I dunno....methinks something's starting to smell on this one.

.

[tex-wyo-dem]

22. Some are just lost causes...

they have ceased being Americans and are now kool-aid drinkin' Rethuglicans first and foremost.

They do and (likely) always will hate everything that even has the slightest appearance of being Democratic, liberal or progressive...we are their enemy.

[IN-dem]

59. Maybe we have them scared

And this might be a good thing. They are afraid there are more of US than them.

[eleny]

27. Check out this thread from today at DU and print the chart

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2077012

I'd print this chart and put it near my desk if the bank permits it. It shows just how bad an economic job their precious Bushie is doing. How he's ruining the country. If they're financial minded people, this may be one way to get their goat, so to speak. And you won't have to say a word. Help kick the thread, too.

[politicaholic]

28. Welcome to the front lines of the cold civil war my dear...

It's been going on since 1997, where have you been?

You're either with them or against them. You don't question America, if you do, you're a traitor/obstructionist.

Democrats are weak. Communists. Terrorist sympathizers. They hate freedom. They hate Christians and want to eliminate them from the United States. And if a Democrat is elected to president he will take away guns, raise the federal taxes to 70%, regulate businesses so much that they're practically government owned, and make abortions manditory for all christians. Just like Clinton did (he didn't).

This type of propaganda is real. I have a friend who grew up in rural bible belt mid west and this type of misinforation was said to him over and over again in public schools. And that was in the 80's! It's crazy!

[ComerPerro]

29. You're in Platte City? You gotta come to our KC area meetups

:hi:

Check out the MO/KS forums for updates!

[ernstbass]

30. I'm hearing the same shit where I work

It's pathetic.

[blm]

32. If we're not getting anywhere then why are Bush's numbers so low that even

the corporate media can't spin them FOR him?

[EC]

33. I got the same thing from my boss

I finally told him that I sure hope that when ever he is at his Florida home, he doesn't get caught in a hurricane or for that matter any disaster. He came back after a while and said I was right.(after I told him he has a computer-go use it-do some research.

Local governments only have so many resources, they can only hold out so long before help and replacements have to arrive. They did all they could do, (and if they start in with "the buses" who would go on those buses? Which 5,000 possible should have gone on the buses out of the 130,000 or so? How do you control the riots that would have ensued and still manage to get others into shelters, and what buses would have been used to get them to shelters if they were all leaving town? Where would they get the gas, since places were closed? Should the money to be used for saving the others be used for those buses?)

Tell them to wrap their tiny minds around the fact that America lost it's 3rd largest city because of a l day delay - when the mayor and the governor requested help with the retaining wall, that it was going to be overflowed and if they got the sandbags on before all the pumps were flooded they'd have a chance...all they needed were helicopters to stop the whole thing....but delays made bad into worse....TOTAL INCOMPETENCE FROM THE UPPER LEVEL - this man did not take the job of President seriously - he played "Don" to all his admiring club house cronies, gave them positions they were not qualified for as though it didn't matter that lives were at stake and ripped off the American Public...Tell them to go kiss his ring and swear allegiance, while people die...

[IntravenousDemilo]

70. "America lost it's 3rd largest city because of a l day delay"?

What, Chicago?

[EC]

87. Oh, sorry, it was supposed to be Seaport City.... n/t

[crispini]

41. My solution is to blame everyone,

but to point out that "he's the president -- doesn't 'the buck stop here' ?"

[Catherine Vincent]

45. No, with Bush the buck stops over there ---------------- --- ----- ----- >

[crispini]

52. exactly.

:eyes:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

44. Go read Raw Story's...

...interview with Howard Zinn. He talks about the subset of our population that goes along with authority/establishment no matter what they do. Also talks about parallels with Vietnam. Worth reading.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Howard_Zinn_calls_for_Iraq_pullout_says_Bush_seeks_profit__0909.html

[cedahlia]

55. I don't think we really are all "reading the same stuff"

That's the problem. Those people usually only get their "news" from Fox News. It's easy to see how anyone whose sole source of "news" is Faux would get a distorted, truly uninformed view. My grandparents are like this. Faux is almost always blaring in the background when I visit them, so I'm never surprised by their loyally pro-*, uninformed views of the world.

It really is sad.

***edited for spelling***

[texpatriot2004]

56. Yes the hurricane was a natural disaster. The RESPONSE to

the hurricane was a MAN-MADE disaster. Shame them. If they saw any coverage of the American people; "the least among us" waiting, and waiting for help while Mr. Brown lied on national television for four days saying help was coming when it clearly was not while people were dying from lack of WATER and medical care or being murdered because of the chaos that ensued when the Federal Government failed to respond immediately. Look, Bush not only failed to act like a President he failed to act like a human. All week long I saw NO sense of urgency in him. I saw no concern for these people. I saw no action. I saw him fly over in a plane and not even stop. I saw him laughing, joking about drinking too much, smiling, and patting people on the back for "doing a heck of a job." WHAT? Bush declared a Federal State of Emergency which authorized FEMA and the colossal failure of the Federal Government to keep Americans safe began. Think about it, Bush and his administration have American blood on their hands. Mayor Nagin actually evacuated more people than FEMA's estimates in a best case scenario. The Mayor got 80% of the people out and FEMA's best numbers were 60%. Blanco wrote a letter, the copy is here at DU, and online before Katrina hit asking for what she needed. Brown was incompetent and lied. FEMA failed. Bush failed. Anyone who can see such human suffering and defend Bush has blood on their hands too. Be firm. Shame on them. GOP Party loyalty even unto death, not their own death mind you but the death of innocent others. We all know that the Federal law Bush and his team passed after 9-11 gave the authority to the Federal Government to respond to disasters of this magnitude.

[berni_mccoy]

57. Ask them THIS QUESTION:

If EVERYTHING (and I mean EVERYTHING) was EXACTLY the same today EXCEPT that Bill Clinton was President... what would they be doing?

A. Calling for Clinton's Impeachment,
B. Calling for Clinton's Impeachment, or
C. Calling for Clinton's Impeachment.

Whatch them struggle with that for a few days...

They won't say another word.

[Dr Fate]

60. "I just hope we dont have a terror attack while Bush is still around."

It is obvious that he cant even respond to somthing everyone predicted. The mayor of my town is an idiot too- so I guess we are all on our own so long as Bush is in charge. I say stock up on water & canned goods- becuase he cant protect us like he said he could."

That should cover all the bases.

[More Than A Feeling]

61. Midwest conservatives are tough

They are excellent partisan hacks, always the most charitable interpretation, always dancing with the one what brung ya, even when they hate Bush. (although if I may be so bold, we midwestern liberals aren't chopped liver either;-))

[leftylady]

64. Well, I wish I was a better fighter

I get rattled and upset and can't think. Can't do much about that.

[CTyankee]

72. I feel that way sometimes too

I had the same problem with my RW sister in law and her husband. I was frustrated the way you are. Finally, I just got so fed up I decided to challenge everything they said if they couldn't document to my face on the spot. When my brother in law made a snarky remark about my believing everything in "Farenheit 911" I said "What exactly about the movie do you mean?" and he said he didn't see the movie! I said "Then you can't talk to me about it. You've got to do better than that if you want to discuss it with me. Go see the movie, tell me what disagree with and BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENTS WITH SOURCE CITES!"
He's a lawyer so he knows about citing sources.

Then he said he didn't have to see the movie; he knew all about it and then mumbled something about Whoopi Goldberg! I said, "What's Whoopi Goldberg got to do with Farenheit 911?" Well, he said, she thinks just like Michael Moore. I said that's a broad generalization and not good enough, let's deal in facts not in what you think someone thinks. He backed off.

I prepare myself now by reading as much as I can on the RW talking points. You can tell what they are. Research those; go on DU and other liberal web sites. I ask DUers who may be experts on subjects to please give me info and resources. I listen to Stephanie Miller, Al Franken, Ed Schults and Randi Rhodes. And I do my homework. Beleive me, those RW talking points inevitably come up in these confrontations with righties, so if you are ready for them you usually have them in a bind. But do use the "cite your facts, do your research, don't let the republicans dumb you down, etc" line. They usually can't do it.

[Ms. Clio]

63. They are like abused wives at this point

Denial is all they have left.

[Land Shark]

66. I guess everyone donating to Red Cross just doesn't get it: it's LOCAL!!!

yeah right, the only point in having the Federal Executive Mismanagement Agency "supplement" and "coordinate" is because locals never have enough and can't do the job: they're the victims, remember?

[Onlooker]

69. You obviously won

When people lose a political battle, they rarely concede. They just get angry. If they were nasty, it's because they're on the defensive, as well they should be.

[G_j]

71. you can't have a reasonable discussion with cultists

and that is exactly what the remaining Bush supporters are.
It has nothing to do with your debating skills.

[cyberpj]

73. You are so right. It's like trying to talk with a drunk.

I learned THAT lesson the hard way.

[leftylady]

78. I get so frustrated.

There really is nothing to talk about. It just disolves into a yelling match. And it is all stupid.

[G_j]

84. I really do feel sorry

for you. I am lucky that the people I deal with in my life are almost all progressive now. But a few years ago I was stuck working with someone who put on the radio when ever Rush was on and constantly railed against blacks, liberals, and every other group under the sun.
I tried arguing with him a few times but it was completely futile and just egged him on. The only concession I got from him finally was to not use the N word around me!
It was effecting me pretty strongly as sometimes I would get home and feel literally sick to my stomach.

You might remember what Jesus said about throwing pearls before swine.
But I really do feel for you.

[LittleClarkie]

74. I'm dealing with some racists here

Who seem to think a buncha welfare-ridden darkies getting killed is just funny as hell.

I could slap the lot of them.

[leftylady]

76. Man, that is ugly

The people I work with aren't like that. They are just totally convinced that none of this is Bush's fault. It all just "happened" to him.

[Dastard Stepchild]

75. Mismanagement starts at the top...

and works its way down. That's an observation that most business-minded Republicans can understand.

[leftylady]

77. They did admit that the deal with Brown was really going to

hurt Republicans.

I think what Bush did to FEMA was criminal. I do.

[IN-dem]

80. George Bush is a criminal eom.

[Dastard Stepchild]

86. Oh absolutely...

The whole response was criminal. Criminal negligence. We assign that charge to parents that do not provide adequate food and shelter to their children... I think it an appropriate charge to apply to Pretzel Bush in reflecting on how he neglected our citizens.

[cap]

82. just wait till their local economy is affected by the fallout

NOLA is the port for many things the MidWest imports and exports and sends to other parts of the USA.

[pookieblue]

90. sounds like the same person that I was stomped by...

even went as far as imply that I was stupid and didn't know my ass from my elbow. Even when I hit back with the facts; he still insists that I am wrong.

you can't win with the people.