Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What was the story on the Bush-Blanco dispute over control?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:21 AM
Original message
What was the story on the Bush-Blanco dispute over control?
Edited on Sat Sep-10-05 10:25 AM by joemurphy
I was listening to NPR's report on the chronology of the Katrina story.

If I remember correctly, the report stated that the hurricane hit on Monday. By Wednesday, people were complaining of having no food or water at the Superdome (some of whom had been staying at the Dome since Saturday).

On Thursday, Bush flew into the NOLA airport on Air Force One and told Blanco and Nagin that he would only send in Federal troops if they signed over control of the NOPD and the Louisiana National Guard Troops to the White House Government. The Report implied that Bush wanted unifed control over everyone. The Report said Blanco initially told Bush she needed 24 hours to think the matter over.

The NPR Report never explained why Bush wanted Blanco to surrender control of the Guard troops to Bush. Apparently, if memory serves, she refused to do so, although I'm not sure when that refusal was communicated to Bush.

The NPR Report also stated that the 82nd Airborne then came into New Orleans the next day anyway -- implying that Bush's demanding control of the National Guard wasn't necessary anyway. Note too, Bush apparently could have simply placed the Guard under Pentagon control on his own initiative and gotten around Blanco if he wanted to anyway.

Then there are these reports from a couple of newspaper sources -- including the Washington Post:

"Washington, too, was slow to react to the crisis. The Pentagon, under Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, was reluctant for the military to take a lead role in disaster relief, a job traditionally performed by FEMA and by the National Guard, which is commanded by state governors. President Bush could have "federalized" the National Guard in an instant. That's what his father, President George H.W. Bush, did after the Los Angeles riots in 1992. Back then, the Justice Department sent Robert Mueller, a jut-jawed ex-Marine (who is now FBI director), to take charge, showing, in effect, that the cavalry had arrived. FEMA's current head, Michael Brown, has appeared over his head and even a little clueless in news interviews. He is far from the sort of take-charge presence New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani conveyed after 9/11.

Up to now, the Bush administration has not hesitated to sweep aside the opinions of lawyers on such matters as prisoners' rights. But after Katrina, a strange paralysis set in. For days, Bush's top advisers argued over legal niceties about who was in charge, according to three White House officials who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the negotiations. Beginning early in the week, Justice Department lawyers presented arguments for federalizing the Guard, but Defense Department lawyers fretted about untrained 19-year-olds trying to enforce local laws, according to a senior law-enforcement official who requested anonymity citing the delicate nature of the discussions

While Washington debated, the situation in New Orleans and along the Gulf Coast deteriorated. Bush traveled to the region in part to work out a deal with local officials to establish a clearer chain of command. By the weekend, federal officials said there could be tens of thousands of troops in New Orleans in short order. Saturday, Bush pledged to return to the region on Monday—and to deploy 7,000 additional active-duty troops under the Pentagon's control. But for many, the help was arriving too late. Officials worked through the weekend trying to hammer out the jurisdictional issues."

***

"Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor."


So here's my question: Why did Bush insist that Pentagon control of the National Guard and the New Orleans Police Department be preconditions for initiating Federal military action? Demanding it seems to have delayed the Federal military relief effort. The answer to this question may prove to be an important issue in the days to come.

There have been a number of Republican reports claiming Blanco erred (and delayed the relief effort) by failing to immediately give Bush the control that he wanted.

Can anyone answer my question? I have asked about it twice before and have never gotten a clear and satisfactory answer. Here's one of my prior threads on it:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... >

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. BUSH wants to blame Blanco, but he had already declared NOLA
an emergency site due to Katrina and signing over NOLA to BUSH was not a requirement to act on his own orders. BUSH could have provided the help they needed without Blanco's concessions. BUSH needs to explain why having control over NOLA was so important that he chose not to help American citizens who were starving and dying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:33 AM
Original message
Exactly. People were screaming for the 82nd Airborne to
come in. Why did Bush feel he needed Blanco's signature on a document turning over control of the LANG to the Pentagon before calling the troops in?

Bush later sent the troops in anyway. So why the delay?

Katrina was pretty much over by Tuesday. Why does the Pentagon wait until Friday before sending the Airborne in?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. And when he did
the 82nd got the orders midnight Friday and were in NO by Sat afternoon.

And they were standing by for several days before that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Did he ask the same of the Alabama and Mississippi governors?
I haven't heard anything regarding that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Apparently not. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Exactly, I've been meaning to ask this question myself. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. The reason .....................
Why did Bush insist that Pentagon control of the National Guard and the New Orleans Police Department be preconditions for initiating Federal military action. Demanding it seems to have delayed the Federal military relief effort. The answer to this question may prove to be an important issue in the days to come.


The Posse Comatias Act does not allow the military to be used as a police force against the citizens of the country.

The Governor had a serious problem with lawlessness and crimes being committed by the people of NO. For bush to send in the federal troops to help, he needed permission from the governor. That is one of the reasons Blanco asked bush to make all the federal troops to sign up as Louisiana National Guard, so she could bypass the Posse Comatias Act.

All around screw ups top to bottom, local to federal

Blanco played politics just as badly as bushco and that's a shame for the people of her state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Well, at last! OK...so what happened?
Blanco apparently refused to surrender control of the LANG to the White House. And you are saying she wanted the 82nd Airborne put under NG control.

So what happened? We know the Airborne went in anyway. But under Federal control, apparently. Bush could have circumvented Blanco at any time, I guess, but didn't?

Was Russell Honore under Pentagon control or under LANG control?

I'm confused about who held authority once the 82nd came in.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. my gut tells me that Rummy knows the details. He sees the military
as his to control.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Yes
and you are saying she wanted the 82nd Airborne put under NG control.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. NO. Fed retains jurisdiction of their troops, Gov retains jurisdiction of
NG.

Good grief, it's not like this has never been done before in any state in cases of emergency. Feds/state work out a joint command.

And furthermore, Blanco was resisting federalization of state resources. Not asking for command of federal troops.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. As I understand it
The 82nd was allowed in all along, as long as they were "supporting" local efforts and not usurping them:

"...governors can still request that the president immediately dispatch federal troops to assist police during emergencies. This happened during two notable instances of rioting in recent history—at the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago and after the verdict was handed down in the Rodney King trial in Los Angeles in 1992. Neither instance constituted martial law (or violated Posse Comitatus) since federal troops were supporting and not supplanting local leaders..."

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:r9cRPMgZLb0J:slate.msn.com/id/2125584/+state+martial+law+federal+martial+law&hl=en


Bush didn't have to demand this of Blanco, and he seems to have had ulterior motives. He could have sent help without her giving up all control to the WH.

This was discussed on your thread yesterday:

PublicWrath (29 posts)
Sat Sep-10-05 02:37 AM
Response to Original message

6. What it might mean:

I don't think the power play was limited to control of NG troops.
Or at least I think the ramifications of the fine print were darker and deeper. I think that Total federal control might enable them to act without state or city consent in condemning and razing neighborhoods. It would certainly allow them to start giving out clean up contracts without going through the city, and depending on how long they retained authority probably land development contracts on behalf of the city, but without its oversight. Not to mention handing out contracts for the restoration of infrastructure to the companies of their choice. Probably contracts for new structures and upgrading facilities they deem important for commerce, homeland security, etc.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4719561#4720137

More related discussion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4715924

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4726612&mesg_id=4726612

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I think Blanco should have control while in her state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Any links for those assumptions?
Correction to This Article
A Sept. 4 article on the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina incorrectly said that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D) had not declared a state of emergency. She declared an emergency on Aug. 26.

The 7,200 additional troops announced by Bush on Saturday are scheduled to arrive within three days. They will come from the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, N.C., the 1st Cavalry Division at Food Hood, Tex., the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, Calif., and the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Lejeune, N.C.

The decision to employ active-duty ground troops and Marines was particularly significant given the administration's initial desire to limit ground forces largely to Guard units. Regular military troops are constrained by law from engaging in domestic law enforcement. By contrast, Guard troops, who are under the command of state governors, have no such constraints.
per Washinton Post Sept. 4
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680_4.html


Per;http://www.katrinatimeline.org/
Typically, the authority to use the National Guard in a state role lies with the governor, who tells his or her adjutant general to order individual Guard units to begin duty. Turnaround time varies depending on the number of troops involved, their location and their assigned missions. One factor that may have further complicated post-Katrina deployment arose when Louisiana discovered it needed Guardsmen to do more law enforcement duty because a large portion of the New Orleans police force was not functioning, according to Lt. Gen. Steven H. Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau at the Pentagon.

Because the agreement that was already in existence for states to contribute Guard troops to Louisiana did not include a provision on their use in law enforcement, Blum said, Gov. Blanco had to get separate written agreements authorizing Guardsmen to do police-type duty.

Governor Blanco Announces Executive Orders
Baton Rouge, LA— Governor Blanco today announced the following Executive Orders:

Executive Order NO. KBB 2005-23- Suspends the bonding requirement of persons issued a special officer's commission by the superintendent of state police. This will facilitate immediate activation and incorporation of out-of-state troopers and out-of-jurisdiction Louisiana law enforcement officers into law enforcement efforts in the disaster area.

http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=994

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. What assumptions???
What you posted is in agreement with what I posted

Because the agreement that was already in existence for states to contribute Guard troops to Louisiana did not include a provision on their use in law enforcement, Blum said, Gov. Blanco had to get separate written agreements authorizing Guardsmen to do police-type duty.


You do notice it says: "Gov. Blanco had to get separate written agreements authorizing Guardsmen to do police-type duty."

That does not state active duty military
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Well, yes i do notice...
i generally read before i post. The assumptions that i wanted you to provide Links for..

"That is one of the reasons Blanco asked bush to make all the federal troops to sign up as Louisiana National Guard, so she could bypass the Posse Comatias Act."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I heard that straight out of the mayors mouth
Blanco asked bush to make all the federal troops to sign up as Louisiana National Guard
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. well...i wanted a link....
sorry i asked
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. National guard can provide security functions without federalization.
Which is why without federalization more NG were sent to LA. Which, btw, Bush could have done entirely on his own once he declared a state of emergency.

He used federal action/aid as a bargaining chip against Blanco. When he didn't/wouldn't act on his own authority she then had to specifically request more national guard.

Thursday, September 1, 2005; Posted: 11:26 p.m. EDT (03:26 GMT)

BATON ROUGE, Louisiana (CNN) -- Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said Thursday she has requested the mobilization of 40,000 National Guard troops to restore order and assist in relief efforts in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans.

She said that by Friday 12,000 National Guard members will have arrived in Louisiana and that sheriff's deputies from as far away as Michigan are on the way.

"They have been issued an oath of office and now have arrest powers in the state of Louisiana," she said.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.recovery/

And from Sept 1 DOD briefing by Honore:

"MR. DI RITA: You know -- it's Larry DiRita -- I think what people are interested in, if you know, is when specifically or if indeed did the governors specifically ask for additional security forces and when that might have been? And if you don't know that, we'll try and find it, but that would be -- I think that's a little more refined aspect of what the reporter's asking for.

GEN. HONORÉ: Yeah, that was incremental. The security force piece was executed through a process called EMAC. That started on Sunday, a collaboration between the adjutant general and the National Guard Bureau to flow additional capabilities to Louisiana and to Mississippi. That flow started approximately around Sunday. Forces started moving once the eye of the hurricane had passed and we could start moving forces in and assist the states, Alabama pushed forces into Mississippi as well as forces from Texas started to flow into Louisiana, as well as other states. But that's the approximate phase of the operation. Again, that was executed through National Guard arrangements to move National Guard capability where it's needed. And that is what is happening, an extension of that, now.

The DOD capability was based on requests that came from FEMA for additional ability to assist in search and rescue, and that was called a mission assignment. Those started on Sunday. And we were here on Sunday, and by Monday, the Bataan was present, as well as federal helicopters started arriving Monday to assist in the search and rescue and the sustainment operation, that that is the timeline as it was executed in the process. http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html

Wny those Fed resources in place weren't utilized asap in providing relief, is a question for the Feds.

Navy ship nearby underused
Craft with food, water, doctors needed orders
By Stephen J. Hedges
Tribune national correspondent
Published September 4, 2005

ON THE USS BATAAN -- While federal and state emergency planners scramble to get more military relief to Gulf Coast communities stricken by Hurricane Katrina, a massive naval goodwill station has been cruising offshore, underused and waiting for a larger role in the effort.

The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore.

The Bataan rode out the storm and then followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents.

But now the Bataan's hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty. A good share of its 1,200 sailors could also go ashore to help with the relief effort, but they haven't been asked. The Bataan has been in the stricken region the longest of any military unit, but federal authorities have yet to fully utilize the ship. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509040369sep04,1,4144825.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

Bush declared state of emergency on Aug 27 in response to Blanco's request. Blanco wasn't in charge of the Navy and its aid was covered under the fed declaration of emergency. Who didn't give them orders to fully utilize them in NOLA while they were there? That's a Fed issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. FEMA had the power to go in and do whatever it wanted...
Edited on Sat Sep-10-05 02:15 PM by bloom
as far as providing help, restoring order, etc.

http://www.fema.gov/news/dfrn.fema?id=4489

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4726477#4727141

http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html



What it seems to me - they may not have had - was the power to control who got the contracts and decisions about how New Orleans would be rebuilt. Someone mentioned that Halliburton just got the contract for the military base (Federal) - but not for state projects.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC