"Who Do You Trust?"

[TahitiNut]

DU (and much of America) is again engaged in the very complex game of "Who Do You Trust?" -- and why... or why not. So much of our answer to that question is not only based in who we each are (and what we each have ... at risk) but in how we see each other (and what they each have ... at risk). It can be seen as a matter of "we" vs. "they" and how similarly the truster and the trustee sees the "we" and the "they." For each and every person, in each and every encounter, the "move" (answer to the question) in this game is likely to be different. The number of 'answers' to WDYT (moves in the game of WDYT) approaches the square of the number of people playing. The pretense that there's one answer (even "In God We Trust") is a fool's refuge - no matter how deplorable or laudable the goal of making it so.

It's a real shame -- tragic -- we play this game so often. More of us have been playing it since September 11, 2001 than for a while before then ... and even more are playing it since August 29, 2005 than for a while before then. It's an infective game. The more people play it then the more people play it. It has a hysteresis effect. We make it real by making it real ... it's socially recursive. It's a deadly game -- and there are very, very few "winners" (usually the ones able to influence others to do the most playing).

[Tace]

1. Interesting Insight

Thnx et chrs.

[KoKo]

2. I don't understand what you mean...

what do you mean that it's a game and socially recursive?

Who do you trust seems to be fundamental with us all...from the time we are born and our mothers feed us. Trust to me is very important. Trust needs to be earned, though and that's why it fundamental to all our social interactions. Even the relationship between our pets and ourselves revolves around trust. That we are not an enemy to them is because of how we treat them and how they view our treatment of them. Same with people, I think.

Anyway, it sounded like you found "who do you trust" to be negative in some way. :shrug: Or, are you saying that folks after 9/11 embued Bush with their trust and propped him up into the "Emperor" he thinks he is?

IOW's they carefully created Bush as the one person that the nation could trust and caused a mass psychological hysteria that to trust him was to be safe?

[TahitiNut]

3. Did a friend of yours ever, when you weren't watching, tap the back ...

... of your head and then point to your other friend? You weren't watching. How do you know? Rove wants to call it a "Blame Game." I don't agree. "Blame" is a tactic in the "Who Do You Trust" game.

It's a game played between people, individually and in interestingly-composed groups, without personal relationships ... despite the behavior of an adminstration that seems to misplace its 'trust' in only those with whom there's some personal relationship. 'Trust' - it's the very essence of cronyism.

Without that 'personal relationship,' what do we use as a guide? Race? Age? Gender? Nationality? Religion? More significantly, perhaps, just how do others trust us? Is there some relationship between how we trust and how we're trusted?

About 95% of the 'discussion' on DU focuses on annointing saints and sinners, left and right, angels and demons. In other words, "Who Do You Trust?" (Obviously, we 'trust' the angels and not the demons, right?) Looks like a game to me. :shrug:


:dunce: Random thought - I find myself, more and more, working on trusting myself - trusting that my (evolving) values and principles are workable ('right') and trusting that I can actually live by them. Things that only I can know, if anyone. Funny thing that.

[KoKo]

4. Maybe what you are saying is..

that you are questioning your fundamental beliefs and looking at diverse posts here on DU since we've grown is calling you to question what you are seeing?

Digging in deep into oneself to survive in these times?

I think I understand what you say. In other words, to trust that ANYONE can really fix this Decades Old Mess when we know it's engrained in our culture in all cultures from beginning of time is probably unrealistic.

To expect a Gandi, MLK, John F. Kennedy...or whatever to appear is maybe not the best way to go? Hero's who become hollow. Sports figures who one finds out are using drugs to get where they are...Corporate Corruption and Cronyism rampant in American Government which goes against what we all believed could ever happen with the "Shining American Example."

In the end...it's always back to US..the peasants with the pitchforks the mighty outcry from the Masses that throughout history have been used, abused and plundered, but always ROSE UP in ANGER after a long time of subjugation and "Vanquished the King, Emperor, Dictator, Despot?"

It's always about "turning public opinion of the masses," IMHO. Rove is an incompetent who got "9/11" in his lap. What's really coming into the public awareness these days might be LIHOP/MIHOP/INCOMPETENCE!

But, from reading what you say it's that there are NO HERO's. WE are the HERO'S. To invest ones whole life in looking for a Savior will only lead to despair and disillusionment.

That I can agree with. And, while Chris Matthews waits for his "Big Foot" Guliani Macho Man to save America...WE THE PEOPLE here on DU and elsewhere on the Internet Rebellion Against Status Quot Sites" go on with our work of getting a message out ..about how MORALLY WRONG this all is...Iraq Invasion/Stealing Elections/Promoting Unqualified Cronies into our Government and rewarding them with favors and the "Drowning Govt. in a Bath Tub" Grover Norquist CRAP is being PUT TO THE TEST.

I have no hero's. No one will save us but our ownselves..But then, I've always believed that ...and my posting here maybe reflects that.
I don't think John Edwards, John Kerry, Howard Dean, Bill Clinton or whatever anyone else thinks should be looked on as SAVIORS...because it's up to us. :shrug:

Whatever...just doing my usual rant...

[TahitiNut]

5. Interesting perspective.

"Fish will be the last to discover water." - Albert Einstein

(I'm just another fish.)

[KoKo]

6. Oh...Tahiti

are you revealing you are a Pices? Sign of the Fish...the opposing fish who swim against each other in the tide of water?

Don't get angry with me...I'm a Virgo of the Harvest...Earth..and MY EARTH IS BEING PLUNDERED.

I have to TAKE SIDES NOW.

But...:hug: to you,...one of the best in perspective of the "old DU Stalwarts."

We gotta keep at this..no matter how it turns out. :-)'s

[TahitiNut]

7. Well, actually I'm a Cancer ("Moon Chld" - yech), on the cusp

... with Gemini, whatever that means. :dunce: (I don't know Shinola about that stuff.)

I'm only a fish in Einstein's sense ... and because I feel very much 'at home' scuba diving.

:hug: Us DU old-timers gotta hang in there.