Know any Effective Nonviolent Activist Groups? Sad farewell to DU.

[GeorgeBushytail]

I am a passionate and effective activist who is quitting DU in sad frustration.

I spent the last 4 days pushing the idea of a nonviolent civil disobedience action on 9/11: Bushville, DC* - www.bushville.org . It went from inception to a website that got 10,000 hits in 3 days, as well as a great article in Rawstory (thanks Miriam).

In 10,000 minds I planted the image of a Bushville of Katrina survivors encamped on the Mall. Screw ego - that's effective activism**.

DUers in Activist HQ wouldn't even discuss Bushville. Not a peep.

I proposed a DU Nonviolent Activism Group and the idea sank without a ripple.

I have an 18-year old daughter. Bush could kill her any day with his insanity. His God may tell him to launch Armeggedon. Or he could simply draft her.

I want Bush out ASAP and that means action in the streets. I'm in a hurry and I need to be as effective as I can be. My passion, focus, and anti-Vietnam war experience*** are wasted at DU.

I need to find a group of hardcore activists who are nimble, creative, and aggressive. Please suggest online groups to me. I am disabled with epilepsy so it needs to be web-based.

I plan to get arrested on 9/24 in DC by walking straight toward the White House ranting at Bush until I am cuffed.

If I don't end up in jail while hounding this government to its knees I will have failed my daughter.

Best wishes and love,

GBT

-> Go to www.bushville.org and tell your friends about it.

Thank you to DUers who helped with Bushville. I'll keep my DU account alive and drop by once in a while.

-

*DU's BugBearJohn proposed the idea.

**It ain't bragging if it's true.

***SMC - Student Mobilization Committee. For you history buffs - we rented the porta-potties and buses, printed posters and flyers, and recruited volunteer crowd monitors to stage protest marches. I spent many months in 1970 working my ass off for a massive march in San Francisco. I was a passionate cog low in the SMC organization. Those are the tactics of the past. Those are dinosaur tactics. Those days were tedious labor but tons of fun.

---------- www.bushville.org -----------

Bye

[bobbieinok]

1. we need your viewpoint, but I understand your frustration

[lildreamer316]

2. Please don't go.

I replied to your bushville post and did not see your proposal for the Group or I would have signed on. I am sorry that you have been ignored this way. I do understand your frustration and I am going to kick this. THanks for your activisim.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. It is so freaking busy here lately it is hard to see half the posts :^(

DU is a victim of its own success, I guess.

------------------------------------------------------
Ditch Bu$h and save the Gulf: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22507&mesg_id=22507

Then save the nation!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[GeorgeBushytail]

22. I've had tons of fun on DU. But Bush is an emergency.

[FreedomAngel82]

63. No shit

And uh who do you think controls everything? Do you think you're going to walk up to DC and tell him to be fired and he'll be fired? HAHAHAHA!!!! Do you think the march Sept 24th will do anything? Do you remember the march in 2003? Please face reality hon. This is a MESSAGE BOARD!

[bigbrother05]

72. Good for you

hope you succeed beyond your wildest dreams. Know that most folks here are doing positive things in their communities as well as contributing here. Any and all should be trying to do things such as yours to try and connect these efforts and amplify our voices.

Please stay in touch, you'll always be welcome and we need to hear the progress first hand, not just MSM reports.

[undergroundpanther]

3. I thought it was a good idea myself

I just can't be the organizer.
I guess I am one of the few RADICALS in a sea of MODERATES.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Our activist corps is spinning wheels right now. :^( Too many

cooks in the kitchen. We just need someone to give us ONE action to deal with this week. Then ONE action to deal with the next, and so forth and so on.

I wonder if the admins would likke to have more mods for that forum to help create activism opportunities?

------------------------------------------------------
Ditch Bu$h and save the Gulf: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22507&mesg_id=22507

Then save the nation!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[lildreamer316]

9. I think that would be a good solution.

But I shouldn't be talking because I am not in there alot.

[Ladyhawk]

46. That's too bad. :(

I haven't done much lately except try to help Katrina victims. Due to my health problems, I can't do much organizing. I wanted to join the activist corp, but my health is sketchy. Right now, I'm muddle-headed on painkillers...ugh.

I would just like to be a follower...be able to check in and do one thing a day toward one important goal.

LH

[fleabert]

5. sad to see anyone go...

perhaps consider that just about every single post in the last few days sinks in minutes off the front page, and that based on what you experienced, maybe your voice is very important here and needs to be heard more, and not less?

[GeorgeBushytail]

23. Why should I keep trying to use a system not designed for effectiveness?

I have shouted myself hoarse here and found a handful of people who encouraged me and helped spread the word.

[tavalon]

48. Unfortunately with 70,000 + people here

Some good ideas sink and some lousy ideas fly. It takes a measure of luck and timing and ?

I'm sorry that you've decided to leave. If I were you, I would keep trying with the idea. It sounds like a good one.

[FreedomAngel82]

64. What do you think will happen on a message board?

Do you think you're going to change how things are going? And also the people who do listen aren't in charge hon.

[IndyJones]

6. I wish you the best of luck in getting your message heard!!

[pitohui]

7. i hesitate to offer suggestions but i'll make one comment

it's too soon to ask katrina victims to march as far away as washington dc

we are still trying to find housing, jobs, rebuild etc.

i haven't yet even been able to get an insurance adjuster or a contractor to my home

i don't have electricity in what's left of my house

many of my friends don't even have houses at all

we cannot join a protest when we have to secure physical existence

[IndyJones]

12. Those are great points. Maybe NO and MS people cannot attend, but

I think that it's positive for people to get out now while our feelings are so raw, so sensitive, so angry, so....etc. I am so sad, angry, frustrated, disappointed, that I would go and protest him if I wasn't the sole caretaker for three small kiddos.

My guess is that more and more ex-Bush supporters will be joining these types of protests.

[GeorgeBushytail]

25. I didn't expect any help from Katrina survivors

I got an enthusiastic reaction in the LA and MS state groups and decided to run with it.

Read www.bushville.org and you'll see that I modified the aims.

An encampment of survivors is a long-term (i.e.) 3 month goal.

I just wanted to get the image out as quickly as I could.

[Ladyhawk]

44. This is what I was thinking of when folks suggested Katrina victims go

to DC. They're too weary and have too much else on their plates. It just doesn't seem feasible to me.

Best of luck to you, pitohui. When you can, let us know how you and your little birdies are doing.

:hug:

[lildreamer316]

10. Kick again.

[applegrove]

11. Emotions are running high. I've run into that with Darfur. Seems DUers

who like to act are doing so in their own ways, saving it up for the elections, only have time for the immediacy of the internet or something else. Lot's of competition out there for our time. Some people go to more than one forum. Many are watching the news because it suddenly is the news again.

The boards are making a difference. They really are a place to go to get news when MSM somehow cannot. They also can be an addiction.

Don't give up.

Give it a few days - see how you feel then.

I hope to see you back.

No surprise we are feeling powerless & despondent.

You are not alone.

[GeorgeBushytail]

28. I don't feel powerless & despondent at all

I am DOING something, but DU isn't the place for synergistic activism.

[applegrove]

29. Go get em! Best of luck to you. Hope you stay. n/t

[KoKo]

36. I think what you say is what it is here, Applegrove.

Thanks for putting it out there.

[melody]

13. I think it's a fabulous idea - I've just been promo'ing it quietly

I haven't posted or responded to threads since I thought that was being done. I sort of thought the appropriate action was spreading the word outside the choir.

What else is it you need from us?

[GeorgeBushytail]

30. I need you to come up with your own wild aggressive acts to attack Bush

And for you to push them to completion

And mention Bushville every chance you can.

Thanks, melody

[melody]

40. okay, that's something structural - I could do that

I'm a writer, so that's my best mode of action. I did drop your URL to a few friends I have in not-so-high-but-higher-than-I-am places. I'll see what else I can come up with.

Tell then, chin up. This stuff takes time...not that we have a lot...

[RagingInMiami]

14. Don't give up

[KerryOn]

15. If you get arrested in DC you have failed your daughter.....

.... in my opinion.

Storming the WH will not change anything. They could hold you indefinitely by labeling you a terrorist under the patriot act. That would be considered an assault on the president. (Seriously)

We have strength in the numbers. We are all mad as hell, npot just you. Just use your head.

I was a Vietnam activist as well. Hope to see you in DC.

[GeorgeBushytail]

42. Ranting and walking toward the WH to be arrested

is my fallback if I can't find a more usefulway to get arrested.

I'd love to find an mass act of CD in DC to be a part of.

[KerryOn]

47. Well the been in DC Sept 24 - 26th . . .

A day of CD is planed for Monday the 26th at the WH. (Non-Violent)

http://unitedforpeace.org/article.php?list=type&type=91

[Harry S Truman]

16. Don't go

We need your voice.

[GeorgeBushytail]

32. I need to use my own voice for effective action

I'll come back when Bush is gone and enjoy the community.

[GeorgeBushytail]

17. I needed more help. I got lots of encouragement

I did 95% of the work on Bushville

-posted an insane number of times here
-gathered a buddy list of anyone who showed interest in a thread
-messaged each one at least daily about progress and threads they should kick
-bought the URL's bushville.org and campkatrina.org
-set up the www.bushville.org website
-wrote every word of it
-endlessly emailed reporters
-endlessly commented in the big liberal websites
-spent hours combing through links to DC activist groups and emailing them and posting to their websites
-gamed the DU system a bit by luring people into threads with polls
-used 2 troll accounts posting in FR. Got some long threads going. Pissed off a lot of selfish people.
-instigated one hilarious rant on Dummie Funnies that went through the DU threads on Bushville with a hilariously deluded fine-toothed comb.
-planned for the next stage - Bushville DC on 9/24.

This is just the truth. I pushed myself to the limit and I am proud of what I've done.

DU is great but I need a nimbler, more focused group.

And if I didn't love DU I wouldn't be spending time now on my way out still trying to shake it up.

GBT

[crispini]

45. A couple of points:

First, you say you created a buddy list and messaged each one, but did you give them specific tasks to do and a deadline to do them by? Effective management of your people is key.

Second, it has been exactly, what, 12 days since Katrina? You're not giving your idea very much time to catch on, are you? And to be perfectly honest, I don't think your timeline is at all realistic. You're trying to put a protest together in, what, 3 weeks? The people at UFPJ take MONTHS to put theirs together.

Third, I don't think DU *is* a forum for activism. It's an informational and awareness network. Many people are only interested in sharing and spreading info. Everyone I know on DU who is interested in RL activism is ALREADY involved with existing organizations such as DFA, their county party, Common Cause, etc. Most people who are RL activists are like this -- they are already maxed out with jobs and commitments. To me, before I get involved with an organization or cause, they have to have some 'cred' that they are for real. There are plenty of left-wing loons out there who, IMO, just waste energy and don't do anything real. Why should I join an organization that will simply waste my time and not accomplish anything? I'm not accusing you of being a left-wing loon, I'm just saying that you've been pushing this idea for, what, a week? Hardly enough time to have accumulated much cred.

Finally, try UFPJ. They're a reputable organization that does a lot of direct action.

[marions ghost]

86. excellent comment

"specific tasks" is the way to go. Don't expect people to drop everything to figure out what they should do. They need to plug in easily.

[caledesi]

87. I tried to message you GBT, but couldn't. Please message me

because I can help. (disabled, but can still do Web designing...I can take that off your hands).


I like how your mind works. Please don't quit.

[Liberty Belle]

18. GBT -- Please don't quit!

There are many activists here, and I'm sure that most of us applaud your bold suggestions and commitment.

It isn't that people don't support the idea. Part of the problem is timing. Many activists at DU have already committed time and expense to arrange trips to DC for the big anti-war and impeachment rally on the 24th. Few could afford to do so twice in one month.

Still others may be hesitant to participant in an activity that may skirt the law. Here in San Diego, we've done many huge rallies, but we generally work with the police to see if we need permits and be sure that laws are obeyed.

These things take time. I was involved in an election reform group. Early rallies drew only a handful of people, but ultimately we were attracting hundreds of supporters as well as major media coverage.
So don't give up. Sometimes it's just the whim of scheduling; I've had some rallies that were heavily publicized and almost no one showed up. By contrast, a last minute candlelight peace vigil that I suggested 2 days before Bush's visit to San Diego drew a huge crowd estimated at 600-2000 people.

Ultimately, I'm sure that the hurricane disaster will spur activism among survivors as well as supporters. How can it not? But as others have noted, hurricane victims are also preoccupied with getting back on their feet and just recovering physically and emotionally from the trauma. Some have only been evacuated a few days, remember. They may also be wary of engaging in something that could get them arrested.

Have you posted in the Washington DC section here? If anyone would take the reins for a future DC protest, it would be easiest to have someone local.

As for getting yourself arrested on the 24th, that would only hurt your daughter, not help her. We may lose some battles, but the most important thing is to win the long-range war.

There are many other options for activism, such as staging rallies in front of your local Congressional Rep's office. Why not stage a rally urging no tax cuts for the rich/help the poor hurricane victims locally -- and urge others around the country to do the same?

Your websites were terrific, and the concept of "Bushvilles" on Capital Mall and possibly other locations is inspired, in my opinion.

I hope that it will come to pass.

Don't give up on DU; instead post some messages at other sites as well to broaden the audiences reached. Try DailyKos.com, if you haven't already.

We need bright minds like yours around this place!


:kick:

[GeorgeBushytail]

37. Bushville is not the real issue

If Bushville isn't a good idea it will fizzle and I'll move on to something else. But DU would still not be the place to pursue it.

Think of the hundreds of other great ideas that appear in threads here and sink like a stone.

This place could be a crucible for action.

[ModerateLee]

19. Could it be that...

...you're needed BOTH places--at DU and at whatever you can develop as the kind of protest you want? One can feed the other as you provide a link here--a bridge here--for those at DU who wish to join you...

[papau]

20. Good Luck - and God Speed - and report back often as we will miss you

:toast:

:-)

[GeorgeBushytail]

21. As an example - only 1 person voted this for greatest

If you thought changing DU to foster activism is important a few more of you would have bumped it.

Because a few of you logged in while this thread was high on the Discussion list you joined this discussion. Some of you I messaged.

This thread will see a few more posts and then sink into oblivion. If DU was a place for activism this thread would be on fire.

Take a look at the Greatest page right now. Is there a single topic that addresses either activism or critiques DU?

I will check back here from time to time.

On to Bushville, DC 9/24!

GBT

[KitchenWitch]

24. A goodbye to DU post is not likely to get votes for the Greatest page

I think your idea for Bushville is excellent. But the point has been made further up in this thread that evacuees and people whose homes have been directly damaged in the storm are busy rebuilding their lives...sometimes one has to rebuild now and protest later.

[GeorgeBushytail]

26. LOL good point. But why shouldn't it?

We know that groups that don't encourage self-critisism slide into decadence and inefficiency.

So your observation reinforces my point.

[KitchenWitch]

27. Which point

The one that makes the assertion that DU does not encourage activism, or the one that DUers are unwilling to vote for "Goodbye DU" posts?

Please do not get me wrong...I believe your idea is an excellent one. This is a group of over 70,000 people. This board has been exceedingly busy for over a week, since the hurricane, I would guess that there is some chaos amongst members here. This is an excellent resource for getting the word out amongst like minded folks, who may or may not be able to directly participate depending upon their own personal circumstances. But since this is such a large board, with so many different forums, you may not get many direct responses here on your thread.

[GeorgeBushytail]

33. All of which reinforces my point

DU isn't designed to be an effective platform for activism.

[KitchenWitch]

35. Not entirely true

The state and local forums are excellent places to find activism opportunities.

[KoKo]

43. Not these days...it's too large. But, it's still best place to "network."

I don't know how long you've been doing "Bushville" here. I just saw a post somewhere this a.m. and I'm involved in other things so read the post and was glad to see it. But, couldn't help you so didn't reply.

This is still a good place to find links to folks you can work with though. It just takes time. I don't know how long you've been here, but DU was more able to focus on certain targeted activism when we had under 2,000 members.

Many of us now only have time for one or two issues and are involved in our State Government trying to get activists elected. We evolved from the old days and find our causes and just can't take on any more.

Voting Reform and Getting local Dem Candidates to run and get elected is what I'm focused on. Used to be I was signing petitions for Media Reform and protesting Sinclair and Protesting Bush & Cheney when they came here and Iraq and anything I could do. But, I had to pare down to what I got involved in from doing those efforts in the early days.

Maybe you could try to hook up with "United for Peace and Justice," or "Veterans against the War" and make the connection that Iraq is draining resources from our at home natural disaster needs. So, if we don't do something soon we will have "Bushville's" all over America.

I think there are many folks here who cold connect you to groups that would like your ideas and be able to use them. If you ask and keep kicking your post for a couple of days. DU is just so large even those of us who spend alot of time here can't keep up with all the activism and still have time to work on the projects we've found through our own early days here of trying to connect, connecting and now being involved.

Good Luck to You. I think you will find your way...It sounds like a good idea...and good ideas never die.

Peace!

[ClassWarrior]

53. I'm sure glad Gandi and MLK didn't just give it four days, George.

Never Give Up.

[FreedomAngel82]

65. Exactly

And Ghandi and MLK didn't have the internet or anything like that. If you're giving up cause of an internet message board then maybe you really didn't believe in your effort anyways and are taking the easy way out. If you really cared about what you wanted to do then you'd find a way to do it no matter what. And if nobody listen's to you then do it by yourself. If you want to help make change get into public office and run for something. Don't just whine and bitch when someone doesn't listen to you.

[katinmn]

58. I disagree. Hundreds of DUers went to Camp Casey because of

our connection to Cindy Sheehan through DU and the synergy developed on DU.

I am enthralled with www.bushville.org! I've been sending it everywhere and folks in my network who don't post on DU are sending it to me so word is definately getting out there! It's extremely well written and its mission and goals are chrystal clear to me.

However, I have no idea what else is on your plate but I am taking a much needed breather after organizing two anti-war rallies within the past three weeks (one with 1100 people) the other at our state capital with 400 last weekend, in addition to nightly vigils from August 6-31.

I'm also a volunteer staff of a progressive congressional campaign.

And I've had my ticket and room reserved for DC for months now.

Oh yeah, and I parent and try to earn a little money, too.

You gotta be a little patient here!

[roguevalley]

71. how do you know? how do you know that people aren't planning

to join the effort for Bushville? I would also say that I can't go because my father just got diagnosed with lymphoma, my mom has pre-diabetic syndrome and I am their care giver. Do I want to be there? Damned betcha. Being here on what just about qualifies as the moon, I live in rural Alaska, I can't go to things like people who can just jump into a car and drive. I have to fly 1250 miles just to get to a place where I can drive 1250 miles.

don't assume because you don't get replies that people aren't packing their bags. and don't assume that because people can't come its because of apathy. I would be there in a new york minute but life has other plans for me. Good luck in your quest but don't dump on me. I would be there if I could.

[burrowowl]

31. The Quakers

and see if you have a local Peace and Justic Center.

[struggle4progress]

34. All human experience teaches that methods and means cannot ..

.. be separated from the ultimate aim - Emma Goldman

[derby378]

38. Here's something for you to consider

As long as you're committing to the Bushville project (I can't participate - too many irons in the fire), you should post a running commentary here on DU.

Get a digital camera, get a WiFi laptop or find a buddy who has one, and transmit from the Bushville camp on a daily basis.

This way, those of us who can't join you can at least learn what's going on. DUers may be able to find creative ways to help you out.

Don't give up on us yet, GBT!

[buzzsaw_23]

39. Keyboard Activism- Petitions- Voting

and the like will change nothing. Anyone who thinks they will does not understand the nature or depth of the problem. By and large, with a few exceptions, those in the Dem party serve to provide an illusion of choice, participation and involvement in the society. America is completely CONTROLLED.

See you in DC.

The problem goes back to when the powers, beauties, and deep knowledges of the age-old women's traditions were supplanted by military-caste mystiques & the accumulation of heavy metals

From d.a. levy
"Really"
                     the police try to protect
                     the banks - and everything else
                     is secondary"

[newswolf56]

41. Please don't drop out. We need your ideas.

I for one think the idea of Bushville is superb. But I also believe spontaneous or semi-spontaneous demonstrations against the Bush Administration are doomed to fail precisely because Bush represents an oligarchy that includes both rigidly disciplined mass media and the more conventional forces of oppression. The oligarchy is therefore capable of belittling and ultimately nullifying all such dissent, especially when the dissenters focus on single issues. For example Cindy Sheehan attracted thousands of supporters and just enough sympathetic media coverage to enable the oligarchy to maintain the propaganda image of "a free press," but ultimately accomplished nothing. While the outpouring of support for Sheehan was welcome and gratifying, it has nevertheless made no difference at all in Bush's Middle Eastern policy.

The lesson here is that for protest to be genuinely effective against Bush (and more importantly the American oligarchy he represents), four things must happen: (1)-the protest must develop an economic analysis -- an American variant of the historical truth of class-struggle -- adequate to transcend any potential factionalism; (2)-the protest's initial support-base must thus be enlarged to include not only the labor movement but advocates for the poor and disabled -- many of whom have already been rendered homeless by Bush's vicious economic policies and his destruction of the social safety net; (3)-the protest must act locally but think nationally, with a central committee coordinating its efforts -- much as the Student Non-violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) did throughout the South during the Civil Rights Movement -- focusing not only on protests in Washington D.C. but in literally every city in the United States; (4)-paradoxically, to protect against infiltration and co-optation -- not to mention to abort the efforts of agents provocateur -- the protest must avoid developing any formal national hierarchy or organizational structure, functioning entirely from local affinity and/or consciousness-raising groups: the all-important strategic lesson taught by the feminist movement's great success; (5)-the protest must develop slogans that articulate the underlying and growing economic fears of ALL working-class Americans -- that is, all Americans who are not part of the oligarchy and are thus subject to its savagery -- relating each of these fears to specific expressions of Bush policy: not just Iraq (and the administration's savage disregard of working-class Americans forced by economic conditions into the military), but the viciously anti-working-class policies typical of this administration not only in New Orleans but everywhere else -- methodical destruction of the social safety net, outsourcing, downsizing, pension-looting, forcible reduction of wages, skyrocketing prices -- the entire grotesque array of atrocities.

In the best of all possible worlds, from this guided ferment would emerge such a powerful mass movement, the more economically radical Democratic figureheads -- people like Edwards (and now I'm told Dean too) -- would have to assume genuine leadership roles. If this were to happen, progressive victory in 2006 and 2008 -- that or Bush's cancellation of the elections -- would be assured.

I believe DU's role in this process is epicentral. But building such a united front takes time and thus requires tremendous patience. Indeed the requisite seeds have already been planted -- but if folks allow themselves to be discouraged by the magnitude of the task and thus drop out in despair, we will never rescue America from the stranglehold of its new slavemasters. Please therefore remember that oldest of Chinese aphorisms: "perseverance furthers."

[leeroysphitz]

49. It ain't bragging if it's true.

Nezteq?

[G_j]

50. hey GeorgeBushytail

:yourock:

I am serious!

And I wouldn't plead with you to 'stay' because you know how to best utilize your energy and time.
You are correct IMO, until scores of Americans are willing to put it on the line with MLK type civil disobedience and are willing to get arrested etc. we will be relegated to mostly complaining.
DU has an important pupose though IMO, to educate.
It appears to be past time for the already educated though to get a lot more 'active'.

thank you for your efforts!

[mzmolly]

51. Actually - I'm very interested in your group. I am certain that over the

next week we'll start to see more interest.

I hope you'll stick around, your ideas are awesome!

:hi:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

52. bye

:hi:

[Mr_Spock]

55. No, that smiley is hi!

:hi: hi!

[bunny planet]

54. I just didn't post about it but I saw it and thought it was a great idea.

I heard on Laura Flanders tonight that it was actually happening. Are there two planned Bushvilles or is it your Bushville she was referring to. I thought she mentioned Moveon.org organizing it. I will definitely send bushville.org info. out to friends.

[GeorgeBushytail]

56. I have borderline Asperger's syndrome

I obsess and I can be rude.

I hope I haven't hurt anyone.

I will check in here regularly.

GBT

[katinmn]

59. Yay! You've done a wonderful job with the website and you are

an asset to DU and all activists!

Glad you will be around.:hug:

[mzmolly]

61. I'm rude and obsessive at times too.

No aspergers - just bitchy. ;)

Glad your checking in!

[Bluebear]

79. Never . nt

[AwakeAtLast]

57. Sad to see you go, but -

I think this is a bit premature. With so many posts, I think it is hard for everyone to see a specific one. Frankly, this is the first post I have seen from you. There may be a lot of traffic here, but we don't see all of the posts that are good. That's just the way it happens on a very busy site that is growing by leaps and bounds every day.

Please reconsider and if you do, maybe get a buddy list to help you keep your ideas kicked. They seem to be very good and important, so of course you should stay. That is what makes DU the great place it is!

:hi:

:kick:

[FreedomAngel82]

66. Exactly

I mostly come to DU to commute and find out information I won't find out anywhere else since I've learned to trust Du. If you think that things are going to change on a message board then that's just living in la-la land. And yes Camp Casey was successful but it wasn't simply because of the internet. It was because people got off their asses and went. But yet George Bush never came out and talked to Cindy or any of the other families or veterans from the Iraq war. So do you think it really matters? No. The only way things are going to change is if we're the majority again in the House and Senate and that will take a miracle.

[Horse with no Name]

68. There were a couple things that I didn't like about the idea

The first was calling it Camp Katrina.
It had almost the same identity and mission that Cindy Sheehan had. It just struck me as being very copycat.
I felt that was going to dilute Cindy's message. She has put forth an extreme effort and sacrifice to do what she is doing...and "I" felt, that this was just hanging on the coattails and possibly dragging both ideas down.
However, they did change the name which is positive.
The second was that I felt it was somewhat exploitive of the survivors to start this without approaching them and asking them if it was okay to use them as a cause de celebre.
I felt that their story needs to be told when THEY are ready to tell it and HOW they want to tell it.
When you look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs....they are barely hanging on to the bottom rung. They need to have their basic needs met first.
I feel it is a GOOD idea, however, I feel it is too soon post-hurricane and that they needed to attempt to have their own forum and have actual survivors on board...not just activists to be successful. I feel that the OP does have a good heart for wanting to do this.
I do think that coming on here threatening to leave and go somewhere else is kind of childish behavior...and would make me think twice about joining such an organization.
Just my .02.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

73. yes

"I do think that coming on here threatening to leave and go somewhere else is kind of childish behavior...and would make me think twice about joining such an organization."

thanks, that what I wanted to say.

[Usrename]

60. Everyone here is frustrated and furious. Please stay!

Under our Constitution, removal of a President is a political exercise. The Rule of Law of course is a factor, but it has been corrupted (ie. Clinton impeachment). Politics must be the answer. We must stick together in a show of unity that is unflinching in a single purpose. Remove the criminals in the White House. Our party leaders must show the same unity, or all will be lost. The soft middle of Americans (good and true people) that do not have strong ideological or political views will be drawn to our side by our unity. They see unity as strength and they are not totally mistaken. The unity of the neo-con movement is what has attracted them. Our message is better but we are seen as weak because we lack unity. The issues that divide us (pro-war/anti-war, pro-life/pro-choice, etc.) are being exploited by our enemies. We all want * removed, and we should elevate this goal above other disagreements. We need to take back middle America that has been scared away from us by the Rove media machine. I believe this can only be done only through unity.

[FreedomAngel82]

62. Whatever

It's just an interent message board. Sure, it's great to find out information and the like but so what? Cause you don't get the response you want you're leaving? And you think we have any power to do anything about Bush? Bush could kill me too. Duh. You think your daughter is more special then I am? Or my brother? Or anyone else in this country? If you don't like it don't whine about it. Good grief.

[wtmusic]

67. agree

sorry you're frustrated about your idea, but it seems a bit naive to think that 10,000 people are going to drop what they're doing--jobs, other activism commitments--and sign on to an unknown stranger's hot new idea. There are probably 100 posted every day here, and some good ones too.

Unrealistic expectations are wasted at DU, not passion or commitment.

[crispini]

77. exactly ... nt

[Old Mouse]

69. don't blame the people for not being motivated

The stakes are so much higher than 1970.

We've lost jobs... used up unemployment, savings accounts and health insurance. We've been harassed and ridiculed. We've marched and protested, we've been the target of false accusations and legal investigations. We've been defamed by the people we protest, and lied to by those we trusted. Unlike the social reality under Nixon, we face the very real possibility of homelessness, imprisonment without charge, torture and death with the apathetic and complete approval of the general public.

One protest with a million people is effective, not a million separate protests with one person each.

[understandinglife]

70. Please don't depart. Since seeing your original post, I have sent ...

... the www.bushville.org URL to more than 100 individuals, each of whom have substantial email lists and are passionate about the crisis we all face.

Keep posting here -- your efforts are noted, responsible and even if folk don't respond it is more likely because they are doing stuff -- like sending your information to others - than being indifferent or uninterested.

And, thank you for all you are doing.


Peace.

[northamericancitizen]

74. kick and nominated

[lonestarnot]

75. See you in Bushville soon!

[Doctor_J]

76. I'm confused

in your other post you say you're a "former freeper". So you're a VN war protestor-turned-freeper-turned DUer? What's caused your multiple ideological switches?

[GeorgeBushytail]

78. Thank you DU. I'm staying with you great people.

I love and am addicted to DU. You know what I mean - there is no other place like it. I have relied on DU for years to sustain me through this terrible nightmare of Republicanism.

I would like to brainstorm with you who are interested in making DU a nimbler first responder to political emergencies - a crucible for action.

I keep thinking of newbies coming to DU wanting to do something NOW and being lost in the endless conversation. I also feel sad for those people who have great ideas for action but can't write a catchy headline for a post.

I realize a lot of my issues have to do with software. I am an old programmer and designer (games) so I appreciate in detail what a fantastic job the people who run DU perform.

I'd like to see ways for groups of people to form an action group quickly, work together collaboratively, and keep in touch easily.

I was grossly unfair to all those people who got the word out on Bushville. I certainly didn't generate enough noise for it to get over 10,000 hits.

The work of the Bushville campaign is mostly done - to shout out the idea of Bushville, DC. If it happens it's because survivors start it and run it. If it happens it's because it's an obvious idea that lots of people have already come up with on their own.

I hope the Bushville campaign inspires some of you to do wild and crazy and confrontational things. That would be the real pay-off for me.

I'll take a couple days off and come back to DU refreshed and ready to work.

Thanks for the great conversation in this thread. I am too sapped to reply to every post. The only way I can think of to sustain this topic is to msg each of you in a day or two and see if people want to keep talking about it.

Or maybe a few of you can carry on the conversation.

I want to work on somebody else's idea for action for a while. Any ideas?

I wouldn't complain so much if I didn't love DU. It's my home and you are my political family.

The Bush beast is wounded and vulnerable now. Be merciless but loving.

Justice,

GBT, better rested now but still needing a couple days on the lake in my canoe

Talk soon.

[ramblin_dave]

80. Hard to do when you're tombstoned n/t

[Bluebear]

81. lol

[crispini]

82. LOL!

that was quick.

[salin]

83. odd little episode.

some folks are really, really bored and simply too easily self-entertained.

Funniest thing - is that when noone went to read the whole site and see the punch line (eg no bushville) - had to come back and announce the punchline to the game. Rather pathetic.

[crispini]

84. I went; I think a lot of people went to the site.

Interesting idea but simply not realistic to accomplish in that time frame. Of course people didn't want to participate.

Whole thing had a flavor of "if you won't do it my way i'm going to take my marbles and go home." Whatever.

[salin]

85. I think it was a farce

from the beginning - hoping that someone would get to the "not a real event" item - and come back and start a thread with it. When it didn't happen - did that him/herself.

[marions ghost]

88. yeah

"the White House has generously agreed to let us use its bathrooms"

that was a good one

[me b zola]

89. Address your mental health needs. Really.

:freak:

[DemExpat]

90. Locking

Author of this thread has been banned.