Mandatory "national service"

[ButterflyBlood]

Poll question: Mandatory "national service"

Obviously you already know what I think of it, but I want to see what the overall opinion is.

*edit* original subject line might've violated new rules

[Democrats unite]

1. This is America nothing should be mandatory

But I did see on West wing of putting people to serve America in exhange for a college education. Now thats a fair deal.

[zekeson]

4. I can see that

and I really hope that we never need a draft! I certainly couldn't condone one because Bus* has fucked up our international standing and security with his PNAC policies.

Wouldn't it be cool to see somehting like AMericaCorps fully funded and effective? We had an AmericaCorps gal in our office last year. SHe was a tremendous help - got to do stuff that staff couldn't have got done - was great in outreach to youth. Bus* funding cuts eliminated the position for this year so no one continued the great work she started.

[KittyWampus]

6. We Are All A Part Of A Whole

We are a family. And so we should have obligations and responsibilities. How is it that we expect to recieve benefits from being members of a society and yet we are not to be expected to contribute anything towards except money (taxes).

It takes more than money to make community.

I live in a vacation spot (the Hamptons). People have their summer homes and think that just because they pay taxes they are contributing.

Taxes don't take care of everything..... like baking cookies for the PTA or benefits for the Firehouse etc.

With rights should come responsibilities.

People who talk about not being compelled to contribute time and labor sound rather like spoiled children who want their parents to give them food, shelter, clothing and allowance without having to do any chores!

[ButterflyBlood]

15. we do do "chores"

it's our jobs. we get money for that, and out of that comes taxes. and the work is neccesary for society often, and when it's not a lot of people are obviously still demanding it anyway. for all these "civilian services", the solution is simple: pay more for these jobs. Don't force a person to do a job they don't want to do for probably shit pay (if any)

[KCDem]

21. I agree with you.

"With rights should come responsibilities."

Yup, totally agree. Ideally, people would serve out of the goodness of their own hearts without any government intervention. But we do not live in an ideal world, unfortuately. The whole Repug idea of lowering taxes so that people will increase charitable giving is ridiculous. Doesn't work. I can't afford to give to charity right now, I'm ashamed to admit. Or, let me rephrase: I can't afford to give as much as I'd like.

[elperromagico]

22. One of our "responsibilities"

... should be, no, must be voting.

When half of the voting age population can't even be bothered to go to the polls on Election Day, you have to wonder how much good mandatory service would do.

[ModerateMiddle]

37. "nothing should be mandatory"

Like paying taxes, going to school (for kids)? Nothing?

[ButterflyBlood]

2. well, it appears the vast majority here do agree with me

my opinion is that any form of mandatory service is fascism, period.

[rudeboy666]

10. right on

"my opinion is that any form of mandatory service is fascism, period."

[Loyal]

29. I think you need to look up the word "fascism"

As long as we still have a democratically elected government, mandatory service does not constitute fascism. Maybe in a punk song it does, but otherwise, no.

[ButterflyBlood]

33. Well I agree with the "punk song"

and punk is very leftist, and what made me leftist as well.

[ButterflyBlood]

34. Well I agree with the "punk song"

and punk is very leftist, and what made me leftist as well.

[JI7]

30. that would mean many schools are fascist

as many high schools already have mandatory community service, as my brothers school had.

[JI7]

3. jury duty ?

do you oppose jury duty ? should it just be for those who want to do it ?

[ButterflyBlood]

5. actually yes

however I think the pay should be vastly increased to the point where it's worth it, or have it limited to only the unemployed. It's not fair to force people away from their jobs for shit pay.

[wuushew]

7. I am curious...............?

What is your opinion of professional jurors? Would such a system work or would it be brought down with charges of bias?

[JI7]

9. now THAT scares me

that is really scary when you think about the consequences of it.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. I'm not talking about professional juries

they call you up, but you can refuse for any reason. But if they increased the pay, not as many people would try to get out of it. Or you could simply limit to the unemployed, who have nothing to lose. But forcing people to leave their jobs for minimum wage pay is hardly fair.

[JI7]

8. do you oppose public schools, parks, etc

do you oppose public schools, parks, etc which use taxpayer money to get funded ?after all it requires people who may not want to pay for it to use money from their jobs in the form of taxes to pay for it, even if they don't use those services and places. do you think they should be funded entirely through private money instead ?why force those who don't want or use them to use money they work for to pay for it ?

[wuushew]

11. Those all seem to be peaceful activities within the borders of Amerika

quite different from forced participation in Pax Amerikana neo-colonialism.

[KittyWampus]

14. Perhaps If Everyone Had To Serve

They'd pay attention to what our political leaders were doing and the direction they were leading us... so as not to get over seas to get blown up.

Maybe a big part of the reason people supported the Iraq War is because they didn't have any of their own personal flesh on the line.

Too many people think that family stops outside their own front door.

[ButterflyBlood]

16. Vietnam?

gee, didn't work there.

[DemBones DemBones]

24. Yes. It was largely because of the draft

that people turned against that war. It enjoyed initial support because Americans opposed communism in Viet Nam just as they opposed communism in Korea and Nazism and Italian fascism in WW II.

It is largely because there is no draft that this war has received a lot of support. Many, perhaps most, of he war supporters are able to support someone else doing it, knowing they and their family are safe since they haven't volunteered to join the military.

[ButterflyBlood]

32. it took 8 years

a bit too slow for me. but that's all the proof that drafts don't stop stupid wars.

[laura888]

38. Yes- I agree with you...

...do you think that Bush would have pushed and pushed for war if he knew his daughters were going to be serving in a year or so?

Americans would have thought twice about yelling their "rah - rah let's go kick some butt!"

[JI7]

23. i'm not talking military

i'm not talking about military service.

[ButterflyBlood]

13. you aren't forced to work so you can pay taxes

don't work, no taxes to pay. That's like me currently (I'll have a job in about a month though). Furthermore if you work less you pay less taxes, it's proportional to how much you make.

[JI7]

17. but why force them to pay taxes

but that doesn't explain why you want to force them to pay taxes which go to things like public schools if they don't want to. they want to work so they can pay for things they want , not so they can pay for public schools. so why force them to pay for things like public schools ? of course one doesn't pay taxes if one doesn't work, but my question is why force them to pay the taxes for things they don't want ?

[ButterflyBlood]

18. public schools are the only logical option

can you imagine there being no public schools? Yet our society isn't falling apart with no form of forced involuntary servitude.

[JI7]

our society isn't falling apart ?

?

[ButterflyBlood]

36. It can be argued that it is

but that's entirely * and the Repukes' fault. If they weren't in power we'd be just fine with no involuntary servitude, and I certainly wouldn't want involuntary servitude with them in power.

[KCDem]

19. no, depends on the state.

Texas has no income tax. For that, we have astronomical property taxes. It's really stupid. People who bought a home for, say, 40K 30 years ago might now find that their home is valued at 250K and have to pay tax on that... never mind that these people could be retired and living off of their pensions.

[Rowdyboy]

20. Okay, let me play Devil's Advocate here

Consider this reasoning: If there was a universal military service requirement and IF a way could be fashioned to ensure that the children of the privilidged were given absolutely no preference in anything, would that make a difference. If the children of the upper class were actually in harms way, how likely do you think war would be? Why shouldn't the burden and the risks be shared?

The military is made up of poor, predominately southern whites, blacks and hispanics-people no one cares about. So they die, so what? They're expendable. They're not our kids.

This is NOT a call for a draft, just a question...

[DemBones DemBones]

25. You're exactly right, the military is now made up of

"expendable" people.

Bad as a draft is, it's very depressing to see how few people here support having responsibilities as well as rights. Democrats have traditionally supported government while conservatives have tried to fight it but here we have 56 Dems who say people shouldn't have to do anything for their country.

What has happened to people? JFK started the Peace Corps, which is all about hard work in miserable conditions for low pay to achieve noble aims.

Butterfly Blood doesn't even want to do jury duty because of the "shit" pay.

[JI7]

27. yup

how much "choice" do those who go into the military right now have ?

[Skip Intro]

26. Mandatory military service = vote on every military operation

yep, if we have no choice but to serve, we must be able to choose our battles, it seems only fair.

a vote among current and soon to be current service members at least

[beanball]

28. America is defended by

the poor so the rich can live the good life,well folks one of these mornings the poor guys and gals are going to wake up and say f--- you rich bastards fend for yourselves.

[ButterflyBlood]

35. I hope that happens

that's pretty much Marxist revolution. I'm not rich.

[Virginian]

31. I would like to see everyone give something back to this country.

Not just the poor people who can't afford an education and find the job market so tight they can only earn a living by joining the military, but the rich kids too.
If everyone contributes a year, then no one "loses" a year towards a career, everyone is even.
The contribution should be of personal choice. If someone wants to work with Habitat for Humanity, Americorp, Peace Corp, it doesn't matter. Just do something altruistic for a committed timespan. You can donate money when you are older; donate time after high school or after college.