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BensMom Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:00 PM
Original message
Red Cross or Salvation Army?
Which one and why?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Salvation Army. No connection to the Repukes. Less overhead.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Or go here., veterans for peace....
Edited on Sat Sep-10-05 11:07 PM by bliss_eternal
http://www.vfproadtrips.org/

This is the organization that was/is working with Cindy Sheehan. You can read more about them and what they are doing here...

100% is going to directly to those that need it, as opposed to it PAYING salaries, etc.


www.michaelmoore.com

:hi:

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Yep, that would be my choice
The Red Cross pulled a "don't call us, we'll call you" number on me and a number of other registered nurses and I've just heard of questionable tactics by the Salvation Army.

Vets for Peace definitely would be my choice.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Yes
And the Salvation Army was there immediately while the Red Cross is still not in NO.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. But the Salvation Army is discriminatory, against gays in particular.
I'm not sure if they proselytize or not.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. I prefer the Salvation Army
because more of what they take in goes to the needy.

I also have a prejudice against the Red Cross because of World War II that my father served in. He said they charged for the coffee and donuts to the guys on the front lines. That's so totally wrong in my mind that I can't in good concious donate to them.
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DawnneOBTS Donating Member (374 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I remember hearing that too. It's true. n/t
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. They CHARGED them?
That's obscene...what the hell were they there for, if not to HELP?

They'll never get a dime out of me...

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OctOct1 Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. I just typed the same story

I was thinking it was WWI
but your right it had to be WWII
sorry for the error
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
32. oh lordy, will this one never die -- the Red Cross was innocent!!!
As I understand it -- and I believe that no less an authority than Ann Landers or Dear Abby attempted to set this record straight a long time ago -- it was the US government that insisted that personal supplies provided to servicepeople in hospitals (the complaint at that time) be charged for.

My friend's mother in Canada, whose husband was in the Cdn military in Korea, had the same complaint. Apparently the Red Cross took the position that it could not charge the servicepeople from one country and not all of them.

Here we go:
http://www.redcross.org/museum/exhibits/aaexhibit_4.asp

American Red Cross personnel
followed the invasion forces in
Europe and the Pacific.
Clubmobile Service operated in
the European Theater of
Operations. Its courageous
members often carried coffee and
doughnuts to soldiers for many
miles over roads too rough for
regular travel. Doughnuts became
closely associated with the
American Red Cross: the
organization purchased enough
flour between l939 and l946 to
make 1.6 billion of them. At the
U.S. government's request, the
Red Cross charged rear-area
troops for their refreshments,
creating a public relations problem
that persists to this day.
Red Cross
women served doughnuts at the
rate of 400 per minute during the
years l944-46.

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DawnneOBTS Donating Member (374 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Red Cross is a joke...
...they don't help anyone. Last year, here in Florida, we didn't see ONE, not ONE Red Cross person or vehicle, or anything. Nada. The Salvation Army was here, giving out much-needed bottled water at Volusia Mall. Remember, Volusia is a Blue county, and the Red Cross is a highly Republican partisan organization. Anybody remember Elizabeth Dole for crying out loud?
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Salvation Army spends 83% on direct services to clients
and its "officers" (clergy) live very modestly.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. Salvation Army. In CA's fires, they were great--according to
every disaster victim I interviewed. I personally saw Salvation Army open up the Kroc Center here to evacuees and provide all sorts of help -- handing out gift certificates to Home Depot, department stores, etc. to get people set up in temporary comfort right away--within a day or two. They accepted donations of just about everything from the public, and gave it all away.


Red Cross, by contrast, did very little other than pass out blankets and clothes. They were involved in scandals over pocketing cash given for a particular disaster and saving it for future ones in both San DIego and 9/11, plus they pay a huge salary to their CEO and have ties to the GOP.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. What the ARC needs is a full fledged revolt
Edited on Sat Sep-10-05 11:16 PM by nadinbrzezinski
I am not kidding.....

Oh I could tell storries from the floods in TJ... and their so called offer to help the Mexican Red Cross with what we needed...

Oh and I have already ranted about them going to the COnvetion Center, but it was too dangerous... spare me... I got shot how many times? But I was a Eed Cross worker who knew what it meant to be one... these people are way too comfortable....
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. Salvation Army was feeding folks in the neighborhoods
Where others feared to tread. I never saw Fema or Red Cross the whole time I was there after the storm.
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OctOct1 Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. My Mother in-law (age 75) has alway been told
Edited on Sat Sep-10-05 11:21 PM by OctOct1
by her mother, Never give to the Red cross.
My Mother in-law keeps telling us the same thing.
I guess during WWII they show up and over charge the troops
for a cup of coffee. They never did anything for them with out over charging. I guess back then it was common knowlegde that they were a rip off???
Just family tale passed down thru the generations.
I would give to the Salvation Army
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. So Repukes have managed to undo the Red Cross. I wonder why?
Could it be all the perpetual wars?

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candy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Salvation Army---proven, tested, experienced and honest.
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ancient_nomad Donating Member (474 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. I always give to the Salvation Army....
For many reasons....
most of their donations go directly to those who need it
remember they were there in Mississippi serving meals on Tuesday
being older, I remember the Red Cross also charging soldiers in
WWII, for food on the front lines
the Red Cross is heavily funded by the Repugs thus politics enters in
The Red Cross could have but did NOT enter New Orleans...WHY???

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I asked a local volunteer traht one yesterday at a local bookstore
he was going over you don't know how hard this is... or what it means

Well given I worked as a Mexican Red Cross Medic, and DEFIED orders many a times to go in there and rescue people.... lets just say it was not pretty... unlike this yahoo I can and have and DO quote the Geneva Convention. Even told him to take off that red cross, sara barton and Jean Henri Dunant were doing summersaults...

But if we did we could have gotten killed!

Cry me a river, been shot at, and many a times wondered if I was going home at night... part of the job, but it seems they don't get that
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. Welcome to DU ancient _nomad!!!
I totally agree with you. I live in Ct. and we just had the 50th anniversary of the flood of '55. Many homes and businesses in our river valley were destroyed and many lives lost! I was a very young mother of a 3 wk. old baby, and my husband was away with his reserve unit at the time. We lost our home,and everything we owned. The Red Cross was there to give us all typhoid shots, and provide meals at the different shelters. They replaced everything we owned with new items BUT WE HAD TO FIGHT FOR EVERYTHING WE GOT!! Red tape, and long lines, and delay after delay. I was pleasantly surprised when a knock came at my father-in-laws door one day (we stayed with him for 3 mo. 'til we could find a new apt.) It was our local Salvation Army, who came bearing gifts, a complete hand sewn "layette" of baby clothes and diapers etc. and a check from a couple in Ohio who had experienced the same thing we had. They were instructed to give the money to a couple with a newborn baby!! They came with hands outstretched with compassionate giving and love. I will never forget this, and I have donated to the S.A. for the evacuees in NOLA!:grouphug: :hi: P.S. I read somewhere on DU that FEMA kept the RED CROSS out of NO. My best friend used to be the Director of the Berkshire Chapter of the RC, and she said that its normal for them to set up "outside" the perimitors of the evacuated area.
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liveoaktx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. I noticed that in Bush's staged photop in Biloxi, Salvation Army
is the one that is there

Bush in Biloxi
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sarahlee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. Better Choices
ACORN Hurricane Recovery Fund.
http://acorn.org/index.php?id=9673

Grassroots/Low-income/People of Color-led Hurricane Katrina Relief
http://www.sparkplugfoundation.org/katrinarelief.html
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
21. My retired firefighter hubby said the Salvation Army always came through
He said the Red Cross was a joke - the food they served during wild land fires was inedible. That's from his 30 years of dealing with them.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yes I can see that... nam era MREs,
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. There should be some sort of law against
serving men that are fighting fires inedible food. That's just wrong!

:mad:

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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. & don't forget the women!
During the later part of his time with the dept., more women were becoming firefighters nationwide.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Of course, thank you for the reminder!!
It really shoul be a law against that, though. How dare they treat people (women and men) that risk their lives for us everyday, so disgracefully...

:grr:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. I have a huge problem with the SA's policy towards gays
and lesbians so I won't give to them. I didn't know the Red Cross was a problem. I have given through my church for this crisis as I trust them.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. Yep. Salvations Army is great - but i have a hard time accepting hate as
policy.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
28. my experience
I gave to both the Red Cross and Salvation Army. I volunteered at the Red Cross in Memphis last week. It was sort of organized chaos, like you would expect. They did great work, and just started cutting checks to people from hurricane areas. They were the only ones doing that, and believe me, it is what people need. I was impressed with the way they stepped up immediately here. The hurricane victims were extremely complementary of the Red Cross (and a lot of the fundie megachurches, believe it or not--they are doing quite a bit)
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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
29. red cross
not the goddamned starvation army.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. I'm with you, the SA is a bigotted organization
Not a thin penny to the SA. No way never.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
33. can we please stop slandering the Red Cross based on ancient apocrypha?
http://www.redcross.org/museum/exhibits/aaexhibit_4.asp

American Red Cross personnel
followed the invasion forces in
Europe and the Pacific.
Clubmobile Service operated in
the European Theater of
Operations. Its courageous
members often carried coffee and
doughnuts to soldiers for many
miles over roads too rough for
regular travel. Doughnuts became
closely associated with the
American Red Cross: the
organization purchased enough
flour between l939 and l946 to
make 1.6 billion of them. At the
U.S. government's request, the
Red Cross charged rear-area
troops for their refreshments,
creating a public relations problem
that persists to this day.
Red Cross
women served doughnuts at the
rate of 400 per minute during the
years l944-46.


Because of this U.S. GOVERNMENT policy, the Red Cross also charged the servicepeople of other countries for personal items that would otherwise have been provided free of charge, thinking it unfair to do otherwise, with the result that I know Canadians who persist in telling this tale as well.


The Red Cross is an enormously important international organization, whose reputation for impartiality in bringing aid to those in need is crucial to many people's survival. There may indeed be problems within the American Red Cross, I don't know, but half-century-old rumour and grudge really should not come into the matter.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. ah

I'm on the outside, so I wasn't aware -- the American Red Cross is a frequent target of the USAmerican right wing, and that's who spreads these tales?

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. that's nice
Does any of that prove that the Red Cross abused US servicepeople in WWII by greedily charging them for coffee and donuts -- the issue I was addressing?

Does my objection to the spreading of a very old and false rumour -- and my concern for the effect of such things on the INTERNATIONAL Red Cross, and on Red Cross organizations in other countries (me having mentioned that the tale in question has caused negative feelings about the CANADIAN Red Cross, which has its own problems but has nothing to do with your Republicans) -- justify yet another allegation that I am a Freeper? (That's what the deleted post did allege -- and I certainly didn't delete it.)

Maybe you should be on Free Republic if you think I should not have freedom of speech.

Maybe if I thought you should not have freedom of speech, I should.

(We could play that game all day ... maybe you should be in school if you haven't reached the age of 13 yet ... maybe we should all get in rocket ships if the moon is made of green cheese ...)

Maybe you should feel free to present something to substantiate the allegations you make about other people in public.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. Telling false tales -- whether they be about the Red Cross, as the tale I was addressing is, or about other people -- is rude at best and damaging to democracy at worst.

And your inability to tell false tales about other people who post on a private message board has nothing to do with free speech.



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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
37. Red Cross
I gave up on the Salvation Army years ago because they hate homosexuals. I leave notes saying it would be a five dollar bill if they weren't bigots when they have the bell ringers close to christmas.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
39. The SA is a bunch of criminal money-grubbing assholes.
I know this from a LOT of personal experience. The RC ain't a lot better, though.
:grr:
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-11-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
40. Neither...
I've been giving through my local Goodwill (literally only a couple of blocks from my house). They've been taking donations for the hurricane evacuees here in Austin. :)

I can't in good conscience give to the SA because of their poicies on gays and lesbians. And I've refused to give to the RC since they got so right-wing political on the national level. So I'm sticking with the Goodwill for now.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
42. Give blood to the Red Cross, cash to the Salvation Army
The Red Cross is the only national organization with a blood bank, for emergencies. However, they did screw up the 9-11 money (hey, even O'Reilly is right about some things), and the Salvation Army has little overhead costs, so most of your donations go right to assist people in need. I've seen the SA at work in Detroit, running a shelter for abused children, a home for pregnant teenagers, shelters for homeless families and a drug treatment program for indigent and uninsured people. They do good work, and will help people that everyone else gave up on a long time ago. I trust them with my money.

I agree that it is troubling that they want to be able to discriminate against gays, but I have never heard of a gay person being denied assistance from them based on his or her sexual orientation. If you are gay and don't want to give them or the Red Cross money, then I would suggest giving through Church World Service, or one of the liberal denominations' service organizations, or through a jewish charity. The United Church of Christ has a program called One Great Hour Of Sharing that is trustworthy. I'm sure the United Methodist, Presbytarian USA, and most other denominations have similar programs.
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