Question for our newer members who are former republicans or Freepers.

[Skidmore]

Help me to understand what people think that * (I have never spoken of this person using his bestowed office title, and I can barely utter his family name at this point without spitting it out in comtempt) and the Republican party were going to do for you personally. What part of that agenda attracted you? Help me to understand why people are willing to support this bunch even in the face of evidence of gross lies and much social and economic injustice. What was the last straw for you?

BTW, I sincerely welcome you all. There is a need for change and for many hands to do the work of reconstructing our democracy.

[Skittles]

1. I would be interested in knowing why 1900 dead troops

and undtold thousands of Iraqi civilians didn't do it for them

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. I would be interested in knowing that as well. nt

[bliss_eternal]

2. I don't know if you saw this thread a few days ago...

...but quite a few 'former republicans' responded to this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4700199

I hope it helps to answer at least part of your question.

:hi:

Good to see you, Skidmore!

[liberalitch]

3. I've noticed that most of the new folks have looked for shelter.....

from the shit storm after katrina..... bless their hearts. For some I imagine it's the war.
In the few days after the hurricane I noted a few who were here trying to get us to not bash *..... and even actually supporting him, it didn't take long to weed out the REAL freepers.

THEN last night I was in a local watering hole that, although frequented by the local freeps, also has the best taquitos around. One of htem said that many got email from the RNC and other "less reputable" organizations to freep DU, slow it down, and see just what level of organization/commitment was going into the 9/24 march.

[WePurrsevere]

6. The RNC asked people to freep DU about the 9/24 March...

and to "slow it down"? Unfreaking believable... that's basically asking folks to perform a DoS attack on this website/board.

[liberalitch]

8. They said.... THEY WAS GUIDED!!!!!

Not just DU,other sites too

[annabanana]

10. I would Lo-o-o-ove

to see a copy of that sucker!

[liberalitch]

12. Oh, me too....

[Mr_Spock]

15. That's fascinating

I know the Freeps in my local watering hole were passing around the "pack of lies" email. They were trying to be coy though (did you get that email about that "situation" down there - "makes sense" huh?) - they didn't want to be challenged on it as I would have gone ballistic and made it my last day in there if they had started bashing the local authorities in their Freepish way.

They don't want to alienate the non-freeps - but I'm on the edge of going off on them. It's just a matter of time...

[orpupilofnature57]

4. A job in Saratoga Co Hgwy dept, I am on record as never supporting any

Republican agenda, philosophy, or ideology and coworkers have dubbed me backstabbing, non participating, turncoat for the Kennedy commie, a title I wear with pride.I have thwarted the republican party in every way I can since 1978, from supporting Mario Cuomo to denouncing Joe Bruno and I still sport my Kerry/Edwards sticker and will until 2008, why because a registered Republican with no neo-con, blind faith in Church's ,with a love for open debate and liberty is a Democrat.And I let myself hate Shrub, using common sense as my guide.

[Skidmore]

5. ....

:)

[awoke_in_2003]

7. A lot of us were naive...

we bought in to the rhetoric about balanced budgets, smaller less intrusive government, personal responsibility. Didn't realize this was a cover for reducing taxes on our wealthiest citizens, plundering the treasury to further enrich the military industrial complex, and that personal responsibility only applies to the poor.

I can't answer your question about why some are willing to support this bunch in the face of evidence of lies. My wake up call came with the Iraq invasion, and since then I have become reliant on much more diverse sources of information- the internet is really great for that. Maybe the ones still supporting this bunch of criminals only watch Faux and CNN (more likely Survivor and American Idol). Hear lies passed on as truth long enough and you start to believe it.

[nookiemonster]

9. "Hear lies passed on as truth long enough and you start to believe it"

Sigh, and it's extremely effective.

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly . . . it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

-Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda

BTW, Welcome to DU awoke_in_2003!
:)

[awoke_in_2003]

28. thanks

for the welcome, and the great quote.

[recoveringdittohed]

13. Three last straws & you're out

Actually 3 last straws for me.

Straw 1: A realization beginning for me in 1997 and culminating in early 2001 that the business community given an inch is taking a proverbial mile in government subsidies, giveaways etc. The build me a stadium or i'm leaving town, give me tax breaks to keep or build a factory or I'm leaving the City State, Country (planet?) This straw led me to stop voting in primaries and consider myself an independent.

Straw 2: A realization that the current administration will stubbornly pursue failed strategies, Iraq etc.,and is in no way fiscally responsible. I used to consider fiscal responsibility to be a reason to vote Republican when in reality it is a reason to vote Democratic. I guess Harry Truman was right (before my time but I've read this quote) when he said if you want to live like a Republican, you've gotta vote Democratic. In February 2005 I join DU.

Straw 3: Straw 3 for me began building with the press reports on Rove/Novak etc., the Downing Street memos and most of all the Federal government's pitiful response to Hurricane Katrina's aftermath. The current administration ran in 2004 at least partially on the premise that they could best keep the US secure. After watching on the news the past 2 weeks SNAFU, the agency formerly known as FEMA, I'm not feeling very secure. Straw 3, I'm now at that point where I would describe myself as a Democrat with an anti-Republican mindset. Now a Republican would to prove to me that they are not an complete idiot before I would consider taking them seriously. In other words I'm extremely unlikely to vote for any Republican at the Federal level,and very unlikely to at lower levels.

Straw 3 and you're out.

[leesa]

22. I think #2 is the biggest stumbling block for Republicans. It's so easy

to disprove the GOP is fiscally conservative, but the myth has been spoon fed to us daily for decades. I can't count how many times I have heard "I am socially progressive and fiscally conservative" and it was said proudly as though it made them smart.
It's usually just a matter of informing yourself that makes you a non-freeper.

[converted_democrat]

14. It was how I was raised. Every person I knew, or grew up with, was a puke.

I came from a tiny town, and that was just the way that everyone was. If you wanted a job, or to fit in in general, you had to be like everyone else. What was strange though, was that no one ever really said why. Every now and again someone would briefly bring up the abortion issue, but that was really the only issue brought forth. One of the strangest things about midwestern politics is that you don't really talk about them. Things are just sort of implied. If you use a social program you're weak, and costing others in the community money, no matter how bad you need is. They think any problem can be solved if you just pray a little harder, or suffer a little longer. People don't talk all that much about politics, sex, or religion, personally I think it is done this way on purpose. If you don't talk, then there is less chance that you will say something to piss the rest of the community off, or become a social outcast. This pretty much keeps any change from happening.

I changed because I realized what I thought was right all my life, was clearly wrong. I moved out of the community into a metro area, and realized everything I thought I knew about other races, and lifestyles were completely false. I realized that change is good, and not as scary as I had always been led to believe.

The final straw for me though was my Mom getting sick with scleroderma. All at once, a bunch of people in my old community became sick with a couple of really specific diseases. They were all auto-immune related. Babies being born as well as people that had lived there forever started getting sick. Everyone that was sick (including my Mom) lived within a few miles of this grain elevator that sold chemicals to farmers. Instead of the community leaders checking out the environmental factors that were most likely causing the illnesses, they blamed the community and said God was angry with all of them because they were not as Godly as they should be. That was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

[Mr_Spock]

16. Ugggh, "God was angry with them"

That story is sickening - and yet so illustrative of the mindset that you are describing. Seems there is a rather lot of denial and fear of the unknown. I wonder if the internet is going to open closed minds - ever so slowly...

[converted_democrat]

17. Yes and no........

The internet sped my conversion along. It helped me find people with the same mindset that I had, and helped me realize and define my new values.
Many of the people that I know that still carry the old mindset, do not have a computer. They think that the net is the tool of the devil, and that people that use it, use it for porn.

[Mr_Spock]

18. Fascinating, so there is hope since kids these days are using it at school

I mean, it sounds like the "pockets of ignorance" you describe are going to have trouble pedaling the "fear based on lies and ignorance" if the 'net makes it easy for the average person to find out the truth - or at least find out that people ARE allowed to participate in an argument over an issue...

[converted_democrat]

19. Yes, that is good!

I had not thought of that angle. Kids today are quite computer savvy. You know what's going to get them before that though?? People are leaving those communities in droves. I left the community for several different reasons, but the biggest one was the lack of jobs. Not even an 1/8 of the people I went to school with still live in that community. People leave to go to college, or leave to find a job and never come back except for Thanksgiving or Christmas. I have found that one of the quickest things to turn a person on their former beliefs is seeing first hand that they are not true. People leave and see that the world they thought was so big and scary, isn't so scary after all. Most people that leave, leave their back wards values too.

[Mr_Spock]

21. Well, there is a ray of hope for the future then!

I wish we didn't have to have these arguments in this supposedly great country, but hopefully we can at least eliminate a lot of the ignorance that dominates arguments in this country. It's so sad seeing the local Freepers desperately trying to blame the poor people for their circumstances in NO just to support their long held prejudices! Well, fortunately many can't go that far and have decided to witness the truth...

[leesa]

24. Tis true. Most of the Republicans that I know rarely travel and if they

do travel, it's usually the 'safe' kind, where you stay in your 4 star hotel, venture out to shop or play in the tourist zones and then go home. Getting out and meeting people of all sorts is essential. Living among different people is even better.

[Pobeka]

26. Second that sentiment. See my post #20.

It's easy to hate an abstraction. It's harder to hate a person who has looked you in the eyes.

[Pobeka]

20. That matches my midwestern experience almost exactly.

I grew up in Indiana. And I will tell you that most of the people are truly fine in their hearts.

But it is exactly like you said, there is very little discussion of how the status quo might actually be hurting someone else.

I also had the philosophy that you need to be personally responsible, but, I was kinda weird too because I gave to United Way even while I was in college in the mid 80's.

And what changed me was coming to western washington, being exposed to people who were *very* different from me. A story:

I grew up for 4 years in a very small town in rural Indiana, and never saw anyone who wasn't caucasian. We moved to Indianapolis, and went to a restaurant for dinner one night. A black lady carried my tray to our table because I was too small to do it without dropping it. It totally, and completely freaked me out. It was the first non-white person I had ever seen, and I didn't even know they existed. It may have well had been a green-skinned martian that carried my plate. And I was so distraught I didn't eat the food. My mom was so embarrassed. I know she and my father had many discussions with me after that event about race.

But I did eventually meet more black people, none who I hung out with but I did come to a complete "transformation" from my 4 year old experience in that I saw them as just people.

Fast-forward to 1986, I had been in western washington 1 year. Defining moment for me: I was getting groceries, and the check-out clerk was giving me a very peculiar stare. I wondered if he thought I'd stolen something, the stare was so intense. After I bought my groceries, I looked at the receipt -- he'd put his name and phone number on it. The first reaction I had was to go tell the store manager. It was a reaction too, not based on thought but based on growing up in Indiana for 20 years where everyone who's gay is not to be trusted. But I did stop, and asked myself, "if this was a woman who did that, would I tell the store manager?". And with that I had my answer, I left.

I think, in a sense, my parents' acceptance of other races had a large part to do with my acceptance of gay/lesbian sexual orientation. And I also know my parents probably will never understand or condone the gay/lesbian "lifestyle". Last I knew they didn't. But I do.

So you see, it is possible to change. And it is a welcome sign to see so many people realizing the error of their ways, and changing their positions. I can't put myself with those who will always hate former republican, because I would be casting the first metaphorical stone if I did. There are SO many people out there who are truly good, but are simply victims of the media. They are truly brainwashed, and we somehow need to crack through that veneer.

So, let's keep cracking!


p.s. One of the sweetest moments for me was when my daughter was in first grade, and at her bus stop was a caucasian,korean,japanese,african-american and native american student. That was soooo great!

[converted_democrat]

23. I'm so glad you shared this with me.

It's nice to know I am not the only person who went through this. I grew up in Ohio, and know how you feel. Hopefully there are more like us, that are willing to change.

[Pobeka]

27. There are many more like us.

My roommate in college went to high-school with me. We had very similar experiences. He went into the marines after high-school, I when straight to college. He got into a program with the marines that sent him to college. We both ended up here in the PNW after several years.

He too is very much like you and I, even with his stint in the marines.

[Booster]

25. My question is why do they think bankrupting the government,

doing away with SS, outsourcing jobs, leaving the borders totally open for anyone to walk through, taking away our rights of privacy, etc (there's so much more) are good things for them?