How can someone admire Hitler's speaking ability

[Snellius]

and yet hate Hitler? Isn't that like someone saying they're shocked that Jeffrey Dahmer ate so many people but admire his table manners?

[wuushew]

1. Its really no different than acknowledging that Rush is good at his trade

you can admire the delievery and revile the message.

[hlthe2b]

3. Exactly....

I remember the flap over someone referring to Hitler as a "great" leader (was this Time Mag?) where great did not mean "good" but simply effective. God knows, Hitler was an effective leader as have many of mankinds most hideous monsters.

[KittyWampus]

16. Hitler's Delivery Was Absurd... Camera Angles

And the theater provided by his propagandists made him seem so "effective". The older Germans who I've spoken to say that they were most impressed by the spectacle.

Sure, Hitler was able to speak without Junior's screw ups... but look at how the media ALMOST make Junior seem stately.

Charlie Chaplin had quite a time mimicking Hitler in the Great Dictator. He got Adolph's over-the-top mannerisms quite well.

You know that Hitler was NOT as popular when people just heard him on the radio. He took off when the newreels and rallies happened.

HITLER WAS A MEDIA CREATION BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BY THE INDUSTRIALISTS OF HIS TIME!

He was not a great speaker! This is a misconception.

Arnold admires the adulation that a dictator recieved and rationalizes it by saying it was Hitler's oratory skills.

[Andy_Stephenson]

2. Great analogy!

"like someone saying they're shocked that Jeffrey Dahmer ate so many people but admire his table manners?"

[WindRavenX]

4. What Arnold said...

From what I read regarding the whole Arnold/Hitler thing, he didn't even stop at saying he "just" admired Hitler for his speaking ability- he clearly said he admired him for his power. In fact, he's made several claims that he thinks authority is both good and something he admires in men.
Arnold is a sick, sick man....

[Kitsune]

5. I don't know why anyone admires his speaking skill.

Because frankly, from what I've seen, he sucked. Granted, I don't speak German, but people who say three words and then pause for a minute and a half tick me off.

[Dehumanizer]

6. Hitler was a powerful speaker.

If Arnold was just praising his oratory skills, I don't see what the problem is.

[WindRavenX]

8. He didn't just praise his oratory skills though!

There was an whole article in the NYTimes today about Arnold going on to say he admired, basically, power and authority and that because Hitler had a lot of both, he admired him.
Arnold's words reveal a man who is drugged by power and the rush it gives him.

[not systems]

10. He said more than that.

He admired the national unity that Hitler created
and said that the lack of such unity was a problem
with our american society.

[salin]

11. described as a hero for those skills... which means

his admiration for the ability to rouse crowds regardless of the content of his speech (paraphrase of the intent) - was so great that he could overlook the evil that was perpetrated simultaneously. That is some compartementalizing. But more, it suggests an egomania (seeking that level of adoration) that is out of control.

Then add his admiration, in the face of criticism, for Kurt Waldheim (sp) and a few other slips through the lips regarding the whole nazi thing - and it is a tad troubling.

It may be an admiration for being able to garner adoration and obedience. But that gets to a disturbing level - again, if the admiration is so great that it is willing to overlook the evil as the flip side of that 'admirable' trait. Ugh.

[Snellius]

12. But his whole rhetorical skill was based on manipulating

the masses, whom he considered stupid and gullible. It was based on harangues, and lies, and deception and turning huge crowds of vulnerable and scared people into his unthinking, hypnotized subjects. Now Churchill or Kennedy or even Reagan had admirable rhetorical styles. But with Hitler it is impossible to separate his bombastic and theatrical tirades from his whole pathological view of the world.

[Snellius]

17. But Arnold understood every word Hitler was saying

Arnold was not just responding to how he was saying it but what he was saying.

[not systems]

7. Liking a slobering, wild eyed, fist waving ...

mass murderers style.

Yea, that's what I look for in a governer.

The truly disturbing thing is how many people
are soft selling this Hitler thing.

Like donating some money to the Simon Wiesenthal Center
and promising not to start another holocaust make admiring
the rest of the nazi program, ok.

A guy on PBS Friday said that Arnold just admired Hitler
organizational skills.

Give me a break.

[karlschneider]

9. There are a lot of Americans who admire Bush's speaking ability.

I rest my case.

[MojoKrunch]

15. Exactly.

And the winners write the history books.

Hitler, for all of his heinous faults, galvanized a depressed and beaten country and came close to conquering the western world.

How is what he did to Gypsies and Jews truly any less despicable than some of the things the US govt has done to its own citizens over the past 200+ years?
Hell, the Trail of Tears comes to mind right off.

There is no excusing what Hitler did.
But few governments are lilly-white clean.
And almost all of them could easily become Nazi Germany.

Give Ashcroft 4 more years... you'll see.

Mojo

[DemBones DemBones]

I know someone who

knows someone who heard Hitler speak in person. She and her husband were visiting friends in Germany after Hitler had come to power but before it was clear how bad things were going to get. They went to hear him speak and found him a compelling speaker. Even knowing he was evil, they could feel themselves being drawn in. It was a very frightening experience, to see the power he had over people and to realize he could have convinced them, too, if their circumstances had been different. They had the advantage of being from another country and knowing things about him that Germans didn't know.

We watch films of Hitler knowing everything about him so we can't see him as he was seen then.

This does NOT mean I'm defending Ahnold's admiration of Der Fuehrer.

[KittyWampus]

18. It Was NOT Hitler Speaking-It Was The SPECTACLE

The political theater that the propagandists set up around him.

[DemBones DemBones]

22. The person who was there said it WAS Hitler speaking. eom

[Yupster]

19. Hitler made a speech in the Reichstag

where he responded to a letter Roosevelt sent him.

It was pretty tremendous. I went to college in Austria so my German was good enough to at least follow alaong.

He had the audience emotional sometimes almost crying, sometimes on the floor laughing. And that was a regular speech in front of congress basically.

I haven't studied him, but just from the little I know and seen, I would disagree that it was just the spectacle.

[DemBones DemBones]

21. Do you mean you saw this in person? Or was it a film?

Usually we see brief clips. . . I've never seen an entire speech. It would be interesting to see. A really good speaker can captivate people who don't understand the language he speaks. I've had that experience and it was quite impressive.

[jonoboy]

13. very insightful

comment from Arnie and shows what a danger the man is.You can't just admire a man's speaking ability...you have to take into account every aspect of a speech to decide if he's a great orator. Contrast Hitler with the recent anniverary of Martin Luther King's famous speech..the setting, the man's delivery the reception from listeners and most important, content that brings tears to your eyes for the truth there-in.

[angka]

14. no no that was the steroids talking.

nt

[kanrok]

20. It actually adds credibility to the story

i.e., that Arnold could actually understand Hitler. I could not admire Hitler's oratory skills since I don't speak German. Muscle-douche can.

[On the Road]

23. I Can Imagine Myself Saying I Admired Hitler's Speaking Abilities

but I cannot imagine going on to give the whole quote that Arnold allegedly gave without expressing any reservations or misgivings. It is revealing and deeply disturbing.

On the other hand, we put Hitler in a special category. I'm not sure Christopher Columbus or any of the Spanish conquistadors were any less evil than Hitler. And unlike the Nazis, they actually succeeded in wiping out entire ethnic groups. People who exterminate indigenous tribes are just not considered quite as bad.