KATRINA AFTERMATH: The end result of NOT VOTING

[Walt Starr]

This one can be hammered as well. If you fail to pay attention and you fail to vote, you are quietly acquiescing to whatever everybody else thinks.

This means, everybody who chose not to vote in 2004 are as responsible as everybody who voted for Bush.

[Skidmore]

1. Walt, that was true in 2000, too.

Forget 04--00 was when the fox got his paw in the door.

[radwriter0555]

2. No. bush stole both elections; our votes are irrelevent regardless

of how many people voted -- or will vote.

[still_one]

4. no, the turnout was pathetic in 2000 and 2004

if there were enough people who gave a damn, there is no way they would have won

Too many didn't think it would make a difference

now it is too late

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. They could still have fudged the numbers, turnout or no. They

are masters at the numbers game and there was no way to check the accuracy of the numbers they fed us.

[still_one]

17. Not in 2000, and if the turnout was good

In addition, the Gore advisors screwed up big time

All they had to do was request a recount of ALL of Florida, instead they selectively picked areas where the counting was to be done

That is what the supreme court ruled on, and by then so much time had been wasted that it became futile

Don't get me wrong, I am pissed as hell, but the Gore advisors were medicore at best

The same crap happened with Kerry, except they told us they would make sure the counting would be accurate, and for four years DID NOTHING

What will 2006 or 2008 bring?

I hear very little from our representatives

[still_one]

6. you are definitely wrong in 2000

all we needed was a few more people to get off their asses and vote

and frankly 2004 also. You see, the DNC, and the Kerry camp told us all NOT to worry in 2004, they had everything covered. They were wrong, but more important, the turnout was awful in both elections

[Junkdrawer]

3. ...and allowing fundy-based firms to count your vote with next to no..

oversight.

Both are important.

Paper ballots, hand counted.

[still_one]

5. I could NOT have said it better

[Wabbajack]

7. "everybody who chose not to vote in 2004 are as responsible as everybody

who voted for Bush."

About half as responsible I'd say.

[Walt Starr]

8. Nope, 100% as responsible

By choosing not to vote, they chose to acquiesce to the wishes of whomsoever was in tha majority.

Had Kerry won, their non-vote would have been to acquiesce to the choice of Kerry.

Bush won, ergo, they approved of Bush being the president.

[theHandpuppet]

9. I found the apathy towards voting to be so damned discouraging...

... when I was working on voter registration. The excuses were legion, from folks who just didn't care to others who were worried that if they registered to vote they might have to serve jury duty. I even encountered some women voters who said their husbands voted for the family (and some of those husbands were overtly hostile to the idea of their wives voting). I got cussed out by some of the younger college-age folks and threatened by a couple whose porch was festooned with American flags and a huge "Welcome, Friends" sign. (I'm sure the irony was lost on them.)

I've been out working and canvassing during campaigns for decades now and I think that voter registration is one of the most difficult jobs out there. Let's face it -- 50% of the American people just don't give a damn.

[opihimoimoi]

10. Non voting is promoted in many subtle ways...Walt is right

The results speak for themselves....we must try to vote with more logic than emotion....

[Walt Starr]

11. Then you now have a talking point to use against the non-voters

By not voting, they acquiesce to the choices of those who do vote. They may choose not to choose b ut they have still made a choice, and the choice they made in 2004 was for thousands of people to die needlessly due to the incompetence of the government they acquiesced to.

[theHandpuppet]

15. I hate to tell you this, Walt...

But in my encounters with the most apathetic citizens, I don't really believe many of them care about the thousands who died -- at least not enough to get off their butts and vote. With those folks it's always someone else's job, someone else's responsibility, someone else's fault... which is why they don't vote to begin with.

Believe me, I wish an appeal to logic or even to their sense of humanity and justice would shake loose such apathy, but there are millions of Americans who vote for every "American Idol" but never vote in an election -- local, state or federal. I wonder just how many of these folks could name their own Reps and Senators? State governor? Members of the President's Cabinet? Point to Iraq on a map? Could name all 50 states or tell me which countries border our own? I've worked with some folks who had no idea when the Civil War was fought or even the Vietnam War! My own niece, a supposed honor student at her high school in NC, could not tell me who America fought in WWII. When I gave her a clue -- HITLER, fer chrissakes -- she still didn't make a connection to Germany or the Axis powers.

I resent these people, Walt, resent them deeply for what amounts to callous and willful ignorance. I probably shouldn't, but I do. Apathy is infinitely more dangerous than opposition. I truly wonder if there's anyplace else in this world where such a huge portion of the citzenry is so disconnected from their own government.

Sorry to be such a cynic this morning, but I'm getting mighty old and the apathy only seems to be increasing. Of course I'll drag my bones out to continue the fight, but I genuinely have no idea what it will take to shake the apathy from the bones of America. Maybe we have to hit rock bottom before we can start climbing our way back up that mountain.

[Walt Starr]

16. Then personalize it

KAtrina didn't happen to them.

NExt time, it could be them.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. Some don't give a damn, some are misinformed, and some are

so well-informed they know how little their votes actually mean and that in some cases they can be made to count for the wrong guy.

You have to admit under those kinds of circumstance a lot of people are going to feel apathetic about voting. :(

[bluedawg12]

14. It's up to those who care to awaken those who don't. n/t

[Boomer]

18. Give me option Number 3

The Republicans are part of the problem, but so too are a large number of Democrats.

They see their jobs as a career path, not as service to the country. As a result, they go where the money is so they can win the next election, and the next, and the next. The money comes from lobbyists and the military/industrial complex.

So although Democrats may champion individual policies with progressive slant, they don't advocate an end to the CORRUPTION. They can't, they're too enmired in it to rock the boat.

I want a third option: a candidate that fights for a return to workable government that is accountable to people not corporations.

So far, I see no sign of that happening.

[blm]

19. Revisiting the history books.....

Can you name the lawmaker who has investigated and exposed more government corruption in the last half-century than John Kerry?

If good, honest governance is your concern, then how on earth could you look for a third choice over Kerry? If that person exists who has proactively done more as a lawmaker to expose corruption, I really hope you will name them.

I believe the problem is that the media won't let the public hear about the real failures and crimes of BushInc. and thereby won't name the very real accomplishments of people like Kerry. By talking about Kerry's role in uncovering IranContra and BCCI, they would have set up criticism of their own whitewashing of the Bush family legacy.

[Boomer]

20. Why did you think I was talking about Kerry?

I said "some" Democrats. I didn't name names.

And Kerry is somewhat irrelevant to discussions of a 2006 or 2008 election. He conceded the previous election, without challenging the corrupt Ohio vote, so why are you even bringing him into this discussion?

[blm]

22. Because a third option implies that someone in a 3rd party has a record

and resume that the Democratic candidate doesn't have.

BTW....Kerry is still in 3 court cases in Ohio, and I believe he and Dean intend to get at the voting machines through other means....Dean is emphasizing the Sec of State races and is encouraging very bright and savvy people to get into those races - Cam Kerry being one of them in Mass. I believe they will expose exactly how those machines work and the people who do the programming and control the count afterwards.

Anyone with a clear understanding of how Kerry has pursued his historic investigations relentlessly and under incredible duress trusts that he will expose those machines eventually...and I dare say that Dean is a major part of making that happen.

I trust that they will.

[ultraist]

21. Democratic Party Failure: low voter turn out of poor & minorities

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Political/WhyAmericansDon'tVote.html
At first glance, the turnout slide is puzzling; it flies in the face of the logic of competitive elections. The Democrats have lost five of the past six presidential elections. Why doesn't the party therefore exert itself somehow to expand its political base among minorities and the less well off? Of the nearly 70 million Americans who are not registered to vote, two out of three have family incomes that fall below the median, and the opinion polls show that their preferences lean toward the Democrats.

One answer is that the Democrats are more a confederation of individual entrepreneurs than an organized party. Moreover, most of these entrepreneurs are doing quite well; a substantial majority of elected positions below the presidential level are controlled by Democrats who are regularly reelected and so see no need to expand the electorate; indeed, they have good reason to want to keep things as they are. The presidency doesn't matter nearly as much to this establishment of incumbents that reign over the Congress and state and local governments.

WHY do the poor and minority sectors have such a low voter turn out?

WHY do we have such a large poor populus?

Those are questions DEMOCRATS need to address and TAKE RESPONSIBLITY for. WE ALL are responsible to alleviate these problems.

I worked on voter registration and transporation to the polls during the campaign, speaking from first hand experience, our party FAILED our low income voters but not providing enough voter outreach to people to get registered and get to the polls.