A guy in NO said this: That if people had voted, they wouldn't be in that

[tjdee]

position right now.

It was a black guy, he was a teacher, and last night during the MTV presentation that's what he said. He was pretty pissed, too. I'm going from memory, but he went off about voting and how most of those people didn't vote and if people had voted they wouldn't have been in that situation.

He said that NO/Louisiana was the most racist place he'd ever been, too (which I don't really get, but that's what he said).

I feel that getting people interested in and informed about politics--new voter registration--should be the top priority of progressives in this country. The Democratic Party shouldn't wait until September of 2006 to start working on this. Many people don't think about voting and their government until a situation like this... and it is too easy for Bushco to wipe this out of their consciousness.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. People need to have a fire lit under their butts to vote, but we also

have to fix the system. It is messed up right now.

[tjdee]

5. We can't fix the system if people don't realize there's a problem.

I mean, we jump up and down here on this board every day, but some people still just don't get it.

They don't pay attention to politics and laws because they don't understand how it matters until there is a terrorist attack (and they believe what the tv tells them) or a natural disaster.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Too true. We have to educate them about the ills of the system

[Media_Lies_Daily]

14. Yes, let's continue to blame the people/voters for the NeoCon....

...Coup of December 2000.

And by all means, let's blame the results generated by the electronic voting machines on the voters.

Good idea.

[Fatima]

19. That does not explain 2004.

The nation had 4 years to see what a bunch of fatheads and criminal swine we have in office, and still put them back in office.

I tried to do my part- I campaigned for Howard Dean in Virginia, and got signatures to help get him on the ballot. We suceeded in that department. Later on, when Kerry got the nod, I urged everyone I met to register to vote and even gave out registration forms.

Yet I can't even begin to count the number of people who told me they didn't give a ratzazz who won. Black and White and Purple and everything in between. Wouldn't vote, didn't care. Ok, you can't make them. Free country and all that. If you press the issue, they shriek harassment to the board of elections.

Had enough people gotten off their couches and voted (and yes I am aware there was voter fraud, which is my point), we would be looking at a different scenario!

The old adage that you get the government you deserve still holds.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. We had much bigger voter turnout here in northern Alabama,....

...so I really don't know who you ran into, wherever you live, that continued to be apathetic prior to the 2004 "election".

Additionally, the phrase is "election fraud", not "voter fraud"...the individual voters had nothing to do with the massive fraud of the 2004 "election".

[Fatima]

27. Voter fraud, election fraud,

whatevah!

Did you do any campaign work? I did. And I just told you where I am...Virginia.

But you want to get snippy and ride that voter...I mean ELECTION fraud horse right into the ground. When you know full well that if the nation really wanted to throw Shrub out, he'd be out.

[zalinda]

17. Yeah, but if repubs are in charge

it will never get fixed. At least with dems, we have a shot.

zalinda

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Yes, I wrote to Kerry and Edwards about election reform when they were

running. I never heard back from them. (They were very busy of course) But I hope they read my letter and at least considered my thoughts.

[Peace Patriot]

32. "...fix the system..." --YES, and in a very specific way. Two Bushite

corporations--Diebold and ES&S--tabulated 80% of the vote in the 2004 election, using SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code--code so secret that not even our elected secretaries of state are permitted to review it. The code is protected by "trade secret" provisions in the contracts that states/counties have signed with far rightwing electronic voting companies.

THIS MUST BE CHANGED! We must throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW! (--or a Louisiana levee might do!)

It's INSANE. Lots of bipartisan corruption around the boondoggle of electronic voting ($4 billion appropropriated by Bush's Congress). But still, the only hope of reform is in the state/local venues, where control over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have potential influence.

They've rigged the whole election SYSTEM--not just one or two elections.

-------

Also at issue: systematic purges of black and other Dem voters--easy to do with central electronic voting databases. Get rid of electronics in voting, or at the least, demand accountability--there are many protections that can be demanded. But the best solution, at least temporarily is: Paper ballots, hand-counted at the precinct level (--Canada does it in one day, but speed should not even be a consideration, only accuracy and verifiability.)

[CascadeTide]

2. the South is still very racist

Most of the power comes from white business leaders and, even in a town with black "leadership" such as New Orleans or Birmingham, the civic leaders sell out their citizens to the business/political establishment for a piece of the pie.

I grew up in Birmingham and can't speak for all cities but I suspect it's the same in most areas of the South. I think they all start out trying to do good but are lured by the realities of the political structure and end up justifying covering their own asses because if they don't, someone else who is willing to play ball will be replacing them next election.

It takes an exceptionally strong leader to reverse the power structure and I can't think of anyone off the top of my head that has done it recently.

[illflem]

3. I've read that many of the poor in NO are illiterate

Serious question, how does a person vote if they can't read?

[dsc]

9. Even people who are illiterate

often can read a few words and as to getting informed they can us TV and radio.

[tjdee]

10. Of course, it's all connected.

I'd hope that people are brought up to basic functionality (i.e., literacy) before focusing on who they're going to vote for--but this is all the same thing. Information, and who has it, whether they'll share it, and their motives for either.

It's just not important for some people that the poor can read. Wonder why that is?

[CascadeTide]

15. well, ending illiteracy is a good starting point :P

Education is definitely the first step in creating an equal society. We need to stop pissing the world off so we can cut the defense budget down to nothing and spend all that money on education. Bring public schools up to the highest levels and give everyone a free education through college. Then we'll have bright, motivated and happy people who will innovate and bring us great new technologies that make our lives easier, our impact on the environment positive and make the world an all around better place. Is that such a terrible thing?

[Fatima]

21. They can vote the same way they vote in other parts of the world

with a largely illiterate population. Photos of the candidates on the ballots, and you mark an "x" in the box. They did this in places like Haiti (where people walked for miles then stood in long lines in the hot sun just to vote) and Afghanistan.

[TahitiNut]

4. Voting isn't enough. Democracy is neither a spectator sport ....

... nor a popularity contest. Democracy is all about participation! We're witnessing the "Let George Do It" attitude towards governance - one of many encores of 1770. How many people have to die this time before we again learn that lesson?

[tjdee]

7. I think we need to inform people so they feel moved to participate.

In my head voting is an example of that participation you're talking about.

I mean, geez, more people watch the Superbowl (to the tune of double or triple) than who watch the presidential debates. That is despicable and frankly, stupid.

[Fatima]

22. It's an important first step in a nation of non-voters. nt

[mntleo2]

23. Democracy Is Not A Spectator Sport? Hahahahahahaha!

Tt is true what you said, about getting involved, etc, I am not disagreeing, but....

Watching these suits can be better thn Reality TV, which I do not watch. But I do often watch political TV. Why? Because it is often the most entertaining, irritating, funny, and horrifying stuff around, when you know the facts. These people can actually sit there in their fancy suits, helmut hair, pancake makeup, and with thier little beifcases proclaiming with a straight face mindless things about brain dead women, impending mushroom clouds, "shock and awe" wars, and how Welfare Reform is actually working wonderfully. You have to wonder if the Easter Bunny is the one behind the camera, and then laugh when you realize the Easter Bunny IS the one behind the camera with names like, Roger "Siwwy Wabbit" Ailes.

Democracy is a spectator sport. What I love about it all is when we gather and laugh about what this politician said and that suit did, we are of all colors and nationalities. Our laughter unites us. When we realize what idiots many of these people are, we can have some REAL fun. Many of us are laughing our asses off when we know the truth, we are snickering and shaking our heads when we realize what entertainment politics can be. And when we know what entertainment value it really is to watch this parade, that is then our votes come out of the woodwork!


Cat In Seattle <----hard working low income person, low income advocate ~ and proud of it!

[SmokingJacket]

8. About NO/LA being racist....

I would have to agree. David Duke is from LA, remember, and many, many white people there have an undisguised and unashamed hatred for black people -- to an extent that really shocked me when I lived there. Even some otherwise fairly "nice" people -- educated, not "red-necky" -- down there simply think of the black population as problem.

You can find racism everywhere in the US, of course, but I do believe it is MUCH more socially accepted in the south... at least where I lived in the southern LA area. Middle America thinks of their racism as a secret that they can keep hidden; but it's all over the place in Louisiana.

On the other hand, New Orleans is/was a place where blacks and some whites mixed and socialized very successfully. So there you go.

[tjdee]

11. I can't remember whether he said NO or LA.

Because he definitely said it was the most racist place, but I couldn't see that about NO. LA, yes. NO, where most of the people are black, and which is very diverse, not so much.

But I've only spent a few days in NO. My white boyfriend and I did get some looks (from all races) but that always happened wherever we went (we surmised it was because we were so good looking :silly: ).

[SmokingJacket]

13. NO is a wonderful diverse city, for the most part.

I used to have friends in the gay community there which was (and I assume is and will be) thriving, and it is of course DEMOCRATIC!

But my God, if you go out to the suburbs.... aieee!!!

[Art_from_Ark]

36. I remember being in a mom-and-pop grocery store near Ville Platte in 1979

and the guys in the aisle next to mine were talking about the next Klan meeting! They didn't seem too abashed about it :scared:

I was hoping that the defeat of David Duke in Louisiana politics would have put an end to that shit, but I guess not.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. In light of what we currently know/suspect about electronic voting.....

...I am constantly surprised by the continued comments about people not voting, and/or getting out the future vote. I am also amazed by the constant attempts to blame others, particularly fellow Democrats, for the reported "results" of the 2000, 2002, and 2004 elections.

The ONLY way we will ever be assured of the return of fair voting in the U. S. will be the day that the NeoCons are removed from power, and the day that we make electronic voting machines obsolete.

[tjdee]

16. You know, I knew someone would start with the electronic voting...

and that is another issue that would benefit from voter awareness.

But I am not convinced that the machines are responsible for the nonvoter apathy I see all around. Presidential Debates do not get the coverage or the beforehand 'hey, look what's coming on' thing they deserve. Who knows about congressional debates--unless you are already political?

I'm also unconvinced that the machines undertally number of voters--for two reasons. 1)All voting machines aren't electronic, and going back we can see that voting has never been anywhere NEAR 100% in recent years. 2)It would be to 'their' advantage to tally numbers correctly, or to overtally, to make it look like people in large numbers adore their leader.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. Every bit of your post demonstrates the same state of denial. The....

...only "numbers" you're getting are controlled by the people with a vested interest in staying in power.

In 2004, I stood in a line of voters that stretched for a good quarter mile or so from the voting machines, and EVERYONE was talking about voting out Herr Busch. EVERYONE. The result in our area was the same as previous years...about 60% to 40% for Herr Busch. How did that happen?

People here talk openly about the damage Herr Busch has done to the country as well as the local area.

Want to know where I live? Madison, AL, just to the west of Huntsville, AL. And yes, the ENTIRE state of Alabama uses optical character readers to read and store the votes as they're slid through the machine.

Apathy? Yes, there is a lot more now than there has been in the past. People simply do not believe that their vote is being counted, and/or being counted fairly. Period.

[Fatima]

25. And how do you remove the neocons from power?

You get the apathetic voters to vote. Not so easy. I encountered many, many many in the last election and even with Ohio, there is not enough evidence out there to suggest this last election was stolen by fraud. Even with some amount of fraud, you have to get the voters out in droves, bottom line. Even Guy James and Bernie Ward have said this on their shows.

The fact that it was Ohio alone that cost this election should tell you that even after 4 years of this criminal gang in the WH, not enough people were convinced enough to throw him out. Didn't help that Kerry would not defend himself, either.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. And he knows this how???

How does he know people didn't vote? That's pretty immature if you ask me and quite wrong.

[Kahuna]

28. I made a comment on DU a couple of years ago about poor people not

voting and was ripped to shreds. I agree with this. Living in the inner city with poor people as I do, I know how apathetic poor people can be. Not all, but too many.

[davsand]

29. I saw that segment.

He was talking about the fact that what happened in NOLA would NEVER have been tolerated in Detroit, Chicago, New York or Atlanta. He also said he was a teacher...

That man was sitting in the dome with jack shit left of his life except for what he was wearing. He was angry at a system that failed him (AND several thousand other people!) and he gave voice to what a lot of people are also thinking. I want to adopt this man, or at the very least put him in front of the full blown media with a few of the more eloquent Dems.

IMO, there is NO room to criticize this guy, nor should his "message" be parsed to death. People who don't participate in the system get screwed, and they take others--who DO participate--down with them. We ALL are suffering to various extent under the current regime, and it is due in large part to the uninformed and non-participating public.



Laura

[faithnotgreed]

31. oh no - is that laura and her zippity do dah revue

how staggeringly awful

[davsand]

33. ?????

:shrug:

[faithnotgreed]

34. "subversive msnbc" thread here says laura led some of the kids in

song

zippity do dah was her choice

they showed this on msnbc yesterday i think according to the thread and the poster thought it great that some subversive from msnbc included it

so when i saw your photo was labeled laura i thought certain that was it

[catmandu57]

30. We need to go to weekend voting

instead of a one shot Tuesday, Have the polls open Friday morning and keep them open until late Sunday night.

[kevsand]

35. Illinois is set to begin a 23 day voting period.

Not absentee voting (which we will still have), but a separate 22-day period in advance of election day during which voters can cast their votes in person for any reason.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=150x9030