Hey you Freeper middle income $60,000-$120,000 wage earners!

[devilgrrl]

I hate to inform you of this, you may make decent money but you are NOT members of the exclusive "Top 1% Club" - so quit voting like you are, because it is you that are now paying higher taxes! Wake up you pseudo-bourgeois idiots!!!!

[electron_blue]

1. I hear you

but as long as they are convinced that *someday* they will be in the 1% club, they will keep voting for these rich tax cuts.

[tjdee]

2. That is the number one lie perpetrated by the Republican party.

Top 1% doesn't even enter into the picture until about 400K I think--and most trifling GOPers around here think they're hot shit with their 90K or whatever.

:eyes:

[Joebert]

7. Bingo

It's all in the wording.

How many times did Kerry say if you make $400,000 a year or more, you will benefit from this law they want. If you make less, you get NOTHING.

No, they kept using the Republican term, the wealthiest Americans...

Well, if you come from a poor family to the point that you're making $50k, $80k, $100k, you think you're hot shit, and don't realize you're not a fraction of the richest.

[ultraist]

18. I think Kerry said, 200k and up, not 400k. Only 10% earn 200k +

90% of Americans earn LESS than 200k.

[Rainscents]

20. Kerry mentioned this on debate with George...

[Caution]

3. Hey dont make the mistake of lumping us all into that.

Many of us voted for Kerry and have voted with a thought towards the less fortunate our entire lives.

[devilgrrl]

8. I'm not lumping - I'm just saying...

it's for the lurkers.

They need to hear that.

[Lorien]

12. Then perhaps a title like "Hey freeper lurkers making 60-120k a year"!

would be more appropriate. Blanket statements are never factually accurate and are downright rude to those that don't fit the generalization.

[devilgrrl]

14. Done.

Satisfied?

Let me tell you. Your tone isn't any less caustic. Capice?

[skids]

4. Speak it.

Too many people with delusions of economic superiority.

[ixion]

5. as a member of that category, I'll thank you not to generalize

:hi:

[devilgrrl]

11. Refer to this post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4735636&mesg_id=4735702

This is specifically aimed at lurkers and others with delusions of grandeur - it's not about anyone that is a member here.

[Lorien]

6. So I was a "pseudo-bourgeois idiot" when I made six figures a year?

I guess by living at the poverty line, I've now redeemed myself-despite the fact that my politics remained liberal progressive at both income levels?

[devilgrrl]

13. Perhaps if you were parading around like you were one of the Vanderbilts.

Come on, you know the type I'm talking about - think the Michael J. Fox character from 'Family Ties'.

[Lorien]

19. No, not really. I have several six -figure friends

and they are all democrats. One is even the organizer of his local MoveOn group.None of them parade about like a Vanderbilt. They don't show me any less respect now that I'm barely scraping by, either. The Alex Keaton type transend all income levels from what I've obsevered; even those making 20k a year believe that someday THEY'LL hit it rich, so they protect the interests of the uber wealthy just in case that big lotto win finally happens. My guess is that it's a delusion brought about by all those get-rich-quick reality programs.

[never_get_over_it]

9. I think you really have to kick that up to 200K

I don't think the really good tax breaks kick in until about 200K - since I don't make that much I'm not exactly sure but I'll tell you I do fall into your original range and I think I got maybe $20/month in tax relief probably not even that much. So I might have gotten 240 a year from the Feds but by state taxes and property taxes soared. So wake up middle class America - you were had and you will NEVER be one of the uber rich - who are getting uberer and uberer!!!

[Lorien]

10. 400k

200k is petty cash to those in the top 1%. 400k is where the tax breaks START. Remember; every 50th person in the phone book is a millionaire.

[brmdp3123]

15. I don't know where your data comes from...

but I am squarely in that bracket and my taxes have gone down, despite fewer dependents.

[Rainscents]

24. How has your tax gone down???

Property tax, more on gas, clothing, shoes, foods, etc. If you add everything, you actually paying more out of your own pockets much more! Gosh, who are you fooling???

[brmdp3123]

26. Actually, I was just referring to federal income tax.

[newspeak]

32. taxes down?

If it's not at the federal level, then states must increase through the local levels, such as property taxes, sales taxes and state taxes. I am more than willing to pay my fair share of taxes if it helps communities and the infrastruture. What we have is a group of greedy corporations and individuals that don't want to support their fair share--but depend more on the infrastructure than most of us do without paying!!!! Think Cayman Islands!!!! They use our military, our resources without paying the cost!!!!! Who is held accountable????

[newyawker99]

36. Hi newspeak!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[newspeak]

37. thank you

been lurking for four years. Okay, okay-got kicked off three years ago for attempting to use deductive logic on some Boortz disuptors-you know, trying to lure them in since they were attempting to use the "logic 101" card-but got kicked off--since the Boortz fans were joking afterwards that they hit alert and got someone kicked off of DU-I bet it was me.....My daughter just laughed, since I'm the most progressive person in the world. Well, I'm back on again and won't make the same mistake twice!!!!

[blondeatlast]

38. I'm in that category too, and I haven't seen a penny more.

With the increase in the cost of living, I've been even more impacted.

How nice for you; how'd you do it?!

[Redleg]

30. Did you enjoy that $200 dollar federal tax break?

Are you enjoying those higher state and local income and property taxes?

[eallen]

16. Speaking as one of those in that group...

First, to be completely honest, I don't know yet if I will fall in that range this year. I run my own business, so I don't have a fixed salary.

Second, as much as anyone, I oppose Bush and the new GOP. What's more interesting is that many of the people I know who also run their own businesses feel the same way. We understand that the tax cuts don't help us much, and that there are other issues of more importance to this nation. We have enough economic savvy to understand that Bush's policies of corporate welfare have little to do with creating a vibrant economy. My impression is that Bush does not have nearly the support from the small business owner and the self-employed that he holds among those who hew to conservative religion, the ex-military, and other groups.

Third, when we come into the Democratic fold, we necessarily add to the faction of the party that many here dislike. We are capitalists, after all, the quintessential bourgeosie. We may be liberal. But we're not leftist. Nothing grates more on our ears than anti-capitalist rhetoric: condemnation of capitalism as a system, the call to nationalize every industry under the sun, etc. Personally, I recognize that this rhetoric is on the fringe of the Democratic Party, that among Democrats there are far more liberals who realize the importance of capitalism than there are leftists who want to destroy it.

[brmdp3123]

22. Well said-I couldn't agree more.

[PowerToThePeople]

27. Rhetoric? Fringe?

Well, I do not think so. The only way we as a race will not kill our selves off will be to switch to one of the so-called "fringe" economic systems. Capitalism is moving more than taking what you can as using people for what you can get them to do before they revolt. There is nothing humane about it.

[newspeak]

34. Okay!!!!

Let's say we're against "barbaric capitalism!!! I'm for small business and larger businesses that support their workers and their communities. Afterall, what good are corporations that only support pure profits without benefits to people!!!! (not only Bush's base of the "have mores")

[Pobeka]

17. I still remember a poll of who thought they were in the top 1%.

Turns out that about 18% of people think they are in the top 1%.

You think they've looked at their tax payments and figured it out yet?

[supernova]

21. These are the people who think $$ bestows legitimacy

They've "made it" in their minds: McMansion in a planned neighborhood; SUV or two; Church on Sunday because it's "right." They 'earned' it all. They have it coming to them; they 'deserve' it. People who don't work hard don't deserve it.

Ugh. I'm ashamed to say it, but it takes a major personal tragedy to knock someone off their self-defined pedestal. But I wish you luck.

[zalinda]

23. I've never quite understood this attitude

In fact, I've always had the attitude that if you can't live on $1000 a week, something is wrong with the way you're living. I've also held the belief that if I have enough money to live on, I shouldn't work. I am not highly skilled and I believe that there are a lot of people who really need the job, would be better served than if I took that job just to get a "better car" or "bigger house" or ..... you get the idea.

And, on top of that, if the top 1% paid their fair share, every one else's taxes could be that much lower, or we could have universal health care. Wouldn't it be better to have no one live in poverty, than to have people steal or sell drugs to support themselves? Of course, there will always be a criminal element, but crime would be much less if poverty was taken care of.

I've just never understood the reason why people hate taxes so much. We have good roads (could be better), good schools (could be better), police, firefighters, libraries, etc. Who should pay for them? How should we pay for them? How much would it cost these 1% if they had to provide all their own services? And pay for each foot of road that they traveled on?

We have so much in the country and taxes are a small price to pay.

zalinda

[blondeatlast]

25. $1000 a week? I suspect that's a typo, right?

:hi:

[PowerToThePeople]

28. No kidding. I would live large on 1k a week.More live 1k/month

[Midlodemocrat]

31. Depends on where you live.

$1000 a week is $52,000 a year. You simply can't live on that in LA, or in Chicago or in NYC. Rents/houses are just too expensive.

[Redleg]

29. Good point- but they aspire to be in the top 1%.

Once they repeal the minimum wage, business regulations, and reduce corporate taxes, every republican Dairy Queen owner will become a multi-millionaire.

[OnionPatch]

33. We're in that category

and it's amazing how many of our friends with similar incomes act like they think they're in the top 1% or something. My husband and I laugh because we are really only a few paychecks away from being as bad off as many others and these deluded friends of ours are even closer than we are. (We have some savings and no debt.)

I've been thinking about this lately and I think we need to get some solid statistics out there to clear up this misconception. For example, what would be the pay range of the top 1% ? People need to understand that they are not even close to it. We make near 100k a year but consider ourselves part of the "little guys" and "working people." Too many people are so deluded about this.

[KayLaw]

35. Also

The housing bubble has made some people think they're rich. I can't define rich, but I think it's when you and your family have enough money to live on forever without making another penny, no matter what happens.

I agree with the poster who said it's not worth it to work just to have more this or a better that. We live in Florida and have, in the past, had overlapping theme park annual passes. When my m-i-l in law heard we "only" have passes for Universal and Islands of Adventure, she said, Well, Kay should take a job at Wal-Mart so you can have Disney passes, too. No, thank you. We'll "struggle by" with what we have.

[newspeak]

39. perceptions of wealth

I think you have to take a look in history at the time of the Great Depression. Some people who thought they were wealthy, heavily invested in stocks were the ones jumping out of the windows--but the ones most affected by the crash were middle income families, and men from those families were the highest percentage of suicides and spousal abuse. Those that had it made were the Duponts, the Rockefellers, the Morgans. At any moment most of us could lose everything. A good move to watch is "The Cradle Will Rock" with Susan Saradon, Bill Murray and others. Great movie about using the "isms" to divide the people (you know-Communism, Fascism). It also showed how the monied were supporting fascism (mussolini) during the Great Depression. Great movie, must see!

[CountAllVotes]

40. where do I fit ...

I am at the level of considered poverty level, but I own my own home which is worth ~$250,000+. I have no debts. I have a small income only for this 2 person household. I live a frugal existence admittedly. I am not ashamed as I cannot change the circumstances of my life even if I wanted to and would like to. Shit happens in life, what else can I say?

So where do I fit? I do not file a tax return being the income is too low to file (called being "exempt" rather than living at poverty level income wise, so I cannot write off and get money back for the property taxes I pay every year on my house, extreme medical expenses (over $5,000 a year, etc.).

However, I feel like I am in the top 1% for one reason - I have no debt at all and I have savings in the bank in case I need extra money. I have no shame over being techinically "poor" by our society.

As for voting for a Republican, yes, I voted for one once. His name was 'QUAKENBUSH' believe it or not. He ran for insurance commissioner for the State of California about 15 years ago or so. He was found to be a corrupt fraud and was thrown out of his job. That was the first and the last Republican I ever voted for.