WHAT IS !THIS, NUMBERS LOWER THAN EXPECTED

[sasha031]

I keep hearing everyone saying the numbers in NO are not that high. How about all the trucks carrying dead bodies the other day, how about the 25,000 body bags and 40,000 more ordered.
So this is the way it is going to be, the complete cover up.How will we ever know?

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Wow! Bush's approval numbers lower than expected!!!!!!

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. There are still large areas under water

but it is looking good that a lot of people did get out alive.

The Mayor must have done a good job, despite the lack of Federal Assistance.

[sasha031]

4. I'm suspicious

I do not trust that mayor either, on face the nation he was kind to shrub where as critical of the Governor. He's just another opportunistic mole.
We are being lied to once again.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Have you ever heard of the man before the hurricane?

You seem to know a lot about him?

[Imagevision]

67. Focus now will be on air port reopening-water level going down death count

will fade from news reporting, cover-up in high gear as of yesterday!

http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[librechik]

3. yes, (FRAME) "It looks like Nagin and Blanco got many more evacated

than at first thought. Most were out before FEMA arrived late to the scene"

see how to do it?

[sasha031]

5. I don't believe it

I kwow they are lying, all you have to do is believe your own eyes and ears. THEY ARE LYING.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. You want a high death toll?

100's or low 1000's isn't enough?

Gee I'm so disappointed. Not enough people died.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. it is not what you want

it is what happens, incompetent governments can and do hide the dead in disasters of this scope, it is not a DC thing... and since they have told you the truth on everything else I guess you can trust them... I know I can't.. if they said the sun is up I will have to check for myself, the sky is blue same story.

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. I don't think the people of New Orleans

will allow their dead to go uncounted. They have more respect for the dead there then most other places to begin with.

This isn't some foreign country where we don't know anybody. Most of these people had family, friends and neighbors. People are going to notice whether or not someone's name is on the list. That doesn't mean that everybody will even be found. But that if they're aren't dead, they'll be listed has missing instead.

Get a grip folks. This is like 9-11. The dead will be accounted for.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. five years ago if you said this is not a third world country

I'd believe you, but they are acting like the worst I know off, and if you think they won't hide bodies I truly have a bridge for sale... with deed.

Oh and will share one lovely mechanism, if a whole family was killed, guess what nobody asks, they never existed. You think they are incapable of pulling that old trick? there are others... I could share, but you still trust this government amazing.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. You don't think anyone won't notice a whole family?

Their bosses and teachers and neighbors?

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. where are they?

Look this happens all the time when bodies need to disapear... sorry I am far more cynical than you are... mostly have seen it and I no longer believe our government is above these tricks?

And yes as somebody else pointed out, where are they, spread to the four winds.

[SaveAmerica]

36. I agree with you, when I hear that they're saying not as many

bodies are being found as expected, it makes me wonder what about all the houses that are still under water? What about those who got up to the attic but were too feeble to break through the roof? What will happen to those houses when the water is gone? Will they be plowed down? Will they report any bodies found inside? Maybe I'd trust the results and numbers more if they hadn't tried to keep the media out. It might be the only way to know how many aren't accounted for by checking for numbers from the red cross. So far, that's the only place that's given a number for people to call with info about who's missing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. and fortunately the missing person database

is now in Geneva... since we went international

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. Databases aren't hard to build

Granted this one will have to start from scratch, but we do have good 2000 Census data.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. you missed why I said that

but that is okay, if you still trust this government you will have no propblem with them being in charge... I don't

[DoYouEverWonder]

45. I don't trust BUSHCO at all

I do have a little more faith however in Gov Blanco, Mayor Nagin and Gen Honore who are the one now running the show, and they are not part of Bushco at all.

That is the only reason why I have more faith that the dead will be counted and it will probably be pretty accurate. BushCo doesn't have a choice at this point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Yes they do

Bush is the CiC, if he gives an order to Honore to ahem start operations, the general will have three choices, shoot himself, unlikely, resign his commision on the spot and bring light to this, ending his career and Bush can still have a gag order, or carry on.

None of those choices is pleasant. I know what I would do, but I am not there.

There are so many tricks that most Ameircans are incapable of comprehending or even accepting. This is why they get away with it.

Until Ameericans accept what is happening, fully and don't discount any of this, we have no chances of people realizng how desperate the situation is. There are days I just want to go back to watching the tube and living in bliss, but I can't.... I have left the matrix... completely

[DoYouEverWonder]

47. Honore seems to be calling the shots

and he seems to be very much his own man. As long as he runs a good operation and so far he has, it will be very hard for Bush to try to interfere. We are dealing with cowards after all and I don't they Honore is the type to keep his mouth shut.

One tidbit about Honore, his own son is serving in the LA National Guard and is stationed in Iraq at that moment. Plus Honore is black and from the region. He knows what's at stake here.

That's not to say BushCo won't try to pull any crap but they are like cockroaches that scurry away as soon as you turn on the light.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Yuo have never been in the military, have yuo?

General you WILL start operations as discussed

No Sir

You will I am your CiC.

Err, yes Sir....

[DoYouEverWonder]

51. You think any of them have any respect for the current CIC?

I think Bush is cowering in a corner drunk again cause his brains got kidney stones and he can't figure out what to do next. He ain't the CIC of shit any more. The CIC ignored the call to duty, he's making himself irrelevant.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. I know they don't

I married a Chief now retired... taht does not mean they will openly rebel and at this stage Honore has essencially two choices,

Yes Sir

Or resing his commision

[bobbieinok]

24. but families have been separated; NO people are in NEngland, AZ, etc

I think that's one of the reasons for the wide dispersal (other than some necessity).......it's much, much harder to determine those who did not survive

.....and there have been statements on DU that bodies may be in Gulf, eaten by 'gators, etc

[zanne]

63. I think you're right on with that.

With all these people dispersed across the country, it will be impossible for them to unite and speak with one voice about the whole thing, too. And, being poor people, they don't have the resources to unite and speak about the future of their hometown, or whether they will ever be able to go back home. Gentrification is the name of the game in this country; if we don't see poor people, we don't have to admit they exist.

[Joe Chi Minh]

25. Are you saying the missing will be counted, too?

And a plausible number of them will be justfiably included in the likely final body-count - or at least cited, so that people can draw their own conclusions, DoYouEverWonder?

Indeed we do very often wonder. Why, for instance, your concern at posters here questioning the changing estimate of the number of thousands of bodies concerned? Is it likely that any over-estimate of what is sure to be a horrendous body count, could possibly be of any significance - other than to the people having to physically tend to the them.

3000 bad, 10,000, terrible? Is that how you see it? What are they trying to tell the public? That the tragedy was somehow not as bad as expected? You sound pretty heartless.

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. No, I think the Mayor did a damn good job

evacuating the city and that despite the lack of Federal Assistance managed to save most of the people.

The GOP would love us to bicker and fight over this because, 1) it is a distraction from their own failures and 2) It will always cast doubt on the performance of state and local officials.

Plus I think it is death mongering to complain that there aren't enough dead rather then to say thank god so many survived.

Besides, I do believe that under this particular set of circumstances it will be very hard to hide the facts. Even the people who are scattered can still communicate with other people. The truth will come out.

We managed to at least figure out most or all of the missing at the WTC, even though in that case many of the bodies never were found or ID. In New Orleans a lot of the bodies are inside of houses and are relatively intact, so they are much easier to ID, especially when you have a street address.

Let's use some logic for a change, rather then fear.

[Joe Chi Minh]

32. "No, I think the Mayor did a damn good job"

What's that got to do with the price of fish and chips?

"1) The GOP would love us to bicker and fight over this because, 1) it is a distraction from their own failures...".

Hey, you're the one playing the devils advocate and sowing dissension.

"2) It will always cast doubt on the performance of state and local officials...".

You can't have been following the tragedy at all. The state and local officals had to take the initiative and go in, despite the obstructiveness of the federal FEMA, who delayed for 5 deadly days.

"We managed to at least figure out most or all of the missing at the WTC, even though in that case many of the bodies never were found or ID".

What about the missing ones on throughout the gulf coast? I trust you won't be saying they must have high-tailed it out of their respective states in good time....

It's about accountability. Do you understand? Not a "blame game"; accontability! And because of the insane power of the neocons' propaganda machine, and despite the enormity of the tragedy, the magnitude of the wickedness must not be allowed to be minimised by a single corpse or skeleton.

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. I live in Florida

So I have followed this storm very closely since before it hit FL.

I also read and listened to everything I can get my hands on, so I saw a lot. So did a lot of other DUers that couldn't sleep while 1000's were being killed.

All deaths that resulted from the hurricane, fall under Act of God.

All deaths that resulted from the flood, fall under Act of George.

However, because of certain key events, if you look at the people who are in charge NOW, not last week, I do believe they are doing their best and have the interests of their people at heart. I do believe most of them, including Mary Landeau, will demand an accurate count. We are talking serious crimes against humanity and an accurate count of people and cause of death is essential.

The first week of the disaster the WH and the Pentagon were in charge and the results were purposely disastrous. So why am I so optimistic?

We had one piece of good fortune, when the Gov of LA did not relinquish control of her state, on Friday Sept 2. Bush tried to strongarm Blanco into signing over the state and if that had happened, we would be well on our way to a military dictatorship.

However she did not. Blanco walked out of that meeting looking like the cat that ate the canary and Bush was pissed. For the first time in his life, George lost a major battle.

The result was that Blanco immediately put in charge competent people like former FEMA Director James Witt. And a Louisiana native son, General Honore to head up the military, with the National Guard in charge. Friday, she had another victory when asshat Brown was sent hightailing back to DC and the head of the Coast Guard (name?) took over the FEMA response. Since then things have been starting to get better. The water is draining faster then expected. One parrish even reopened today.

There was a massive failure of leadership here but it was all at the top. The leadership on the local and LA State level actually did everything they were supposed to do and more and all without the Federal Assistance they begged for. Don't let them distract you.

BUSH is the FAILURE, keep your eyes on the prize as they say.

[Joe Chi Minh]

61. Why didn't you write a post like that in the first place,

instead of trying to spread alarm and despondency among the troops - who know the truth?

Praising God for those who survived is not essentailly what this board is about. Of course, it is a good and Christian thing to do so, but it is neither good nor Christian to try to cast the determination of the posters here not to be hoodwinked by this intrinsically dishonest administration, as irrational "fear". Indeed it is perverse in the extreme, given the record of this administration. How can anyone possibly arrive at a plausible estimate of the body count at this early stage, anyway?

What is more - and this should be kept at the forefront of people's awareness - there must surely be many, many more victims of this man-made tragedy, men, women and children, whose health will have been seriously and permanently affected - many more indeed who will die very prematurely - while not, of course, covered by the free health care available to everyone in civilised Old Europe.

[librechik]

35. yes, and let's celebrate some very good news

I remember how relieved I was to hear there were only about 3000 dead in the WTC instead of the 25,000 originally feared.

This is a good thing bottom line. And it also happens to SEEM to vindicate local officials.

Could they be lying about the numbers? I don't think so, not since CNN sued to allow the press to view body recovery. I think these new, lower figures are very likely true.

[Joe Chi Minh]

59. I didn't say there were only 3000 dead,

but simpy used it for the purposes of argument. Nobody would be foolish enough to project any figure at the moment, and 3000 sure sounds euphemistic.

[Land Shark]

64. i don't "want a high death toll" I want the truth! Note how American

optimism is harnessed as a force for hiding the very truth, because to question something altogether too pollyannish is to be impermissibly dark and cynical/conspiratorial. Like every "liberal" hollywood movie, things end well WITHOUT US HAVING TO DO A sINGLE THING EXCEPT STAY TUNED.

Science please. Open data, open methods. free access by journalists at all times. the journalists had to all leave, many went home. They are not all going to come back even with a court order.

[stray cat]

6. Not only framing but I think its true

On the whole the evacuation worked pretty well. However, more security and relief were needed right after the hurricane - in other words where was the federal government?

[sasha031]

7. WHERE IS YOUR MEMORY

Do you remember they were saying they were losing 12 an hr at the airport! There was nothing done correctly.
A weeK later everything is just A-OK, come on, it's another scam.

[librechik]

8. I remember just fine that I WASN"T THERE

Were you there? Is that how you know about the airport?

I know communications went down, panic was on the ground and no one will know true numbers until an assessment is done later.

What I know now is numbers are yet to come in, yet several sources we can trust say less bodies than medical and morgue personnel expected.

I know that half a million evacuees were counted by rescuers.

I know many more got out that weren't counted.

It's good that there are fewer people dead in NOLA than we thought. Since the other side is so eager to blame mayor Nagin for failing in NOLA, will they be as quick to acknowledge his successes?

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. How do you KNOW that "there are fewer people dead

in NOLA than we thought". Already you, or your favoured authorities have moved on from an anecdotal and entirely speculative guess to certainty. Well, well. How reliable our more compassionate posters are...!

[librechik]

33. I didn't claim to "know"

I said several trusted sources have stated. I wasn't there. I don't know.

My sources? The US Army Corps of Engineers and Red Cross.

[Joe Chi Minh]

41. "It's good that there are fewer people dead

in NOLA than we thought".

That is called "hearsay", since at such an early stage, it could hardly even be categorised as an "expert opinion". Yet you have stated it as a plain fact. You need to be able to differentiate between hearsay, expert opinion and half-assed spin. In your own posts.

Pardon me if I sound a little harsh, but I really deplore your attempts to smear honest DUers who don't want to see the worst aspects of Katrina spun away by forked tongues. Why are you so concerned that the merely speculative official estimates be believed, when the enormity of the tragedy has an immutable stand-alone quality, transcending numerical quantifications.

[librechik]

48. you are ascribing motives to me that I don't espouse

How many times do I need to repeat that I don't know what the facts are? I am talking about reports from the ground that I trust. No one is obliged to follow my lead, though I think it's a good meme and will get better as we get more confirmation.

And I'm not smearing anybody. Who in particular am I smearing? Got a name?

I don't trust Bush, he has done nothing but lie. I'm not referring to Bush's words when I say "good, fewer died than we thought."

I trust the US Army Corps of Engineers, because they have never lied to me--in fact a lie from them is quite obvious when exposed, and they are rare. They are scientific and practical and not political. However, I don't trust Centcom. I can differentiate between those yes men and the Engineers.

I am waiting for all the evidence you no doubt have to convince me otherwise. All you seem to have is the same sort of hearsay you accuse me of spreading. Just a general feeling that it's all a lie is not evidence, anymore than my feeling that there may be hope. Seems we are even here.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. Got a link for that rumor?

They said a lot of things during the storm that turned out not to be true.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. well you know

WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Yuo must also remember those who control the past control the present... and that is exactly what we are seeing, somewhere Smith is laughing as the Ministry of Truth does its work

[rman]

62. some 10,000 people were 'evacuated' to within NO

(to the Super Dome) - without food and water, while it was anticipated they'd have to stay there for at least 5 days. They were told to bring supplies for 5 days, but very few people can realistically do that on such a short notice.
So it was clear well before the hurricane that it was going to be quite problematic.

[alcuno]

14. This is the correct response.....

What..... are people hoping for more deaths so they can blame *? It's about taking credit for all the good things. This answers the stupid bus question. The evacuation plan worked: get as many people as possible to leave, get all others to high ground, wait for the rescue by the feds. Looks like #3 came up woefully short.

[Cocoa]

12. they played the expectations game

they pulled 10,000 out of their asses.

[ken_g]

16. Still..I don't trust the message

I've heard this repeated over and over as well without any sourcing or evidence. REMEMBER, CNN had to take them to court to be allowed to even cover the recovery of victims! I certainly am not wishing for more deaths, I just want the truth!

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. welcome to DU

and more and more of us are with you

[Rainscents]

21. I heard this past week on MSNBC, Miss already had recovered 1,200 bodies

And this is just the beginning!

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Yes it is just the begining

their magic number is under 3000, because of 9.11

All of this is poltics to them

Also there are other reasons and they are economic, if I get killed in a natural disaster, then my family has rights to death benefits from the Feds (why they filled plenty of false claims in FL, there were more deaths due to teh storm than actual dead people, it was an election year, and this was done in Republican Districts and very much under the water)

So the cheap SOBs can save some money by doing that

[Joe Chi Minh]

22. It's a very strange message to put out to the public,

if it's not propaganda, because saying that the number of dead bodies MAY not be as big as expected - which was what I heard on a few occasions - does not indicate any greater probability than that it MAY be..., which was what we already knew.

If they'd said the first few times they mooted it, even that it seemed PROBABLE, I would have been a little less suspicious.

[Benbow]

23. Careful choice of word: "body", not skeleton

Think. A body that has laid in the NO high temperatures and high humidity for two weeks, whether in or out of water: is enough of it left now to call it a "body"? A body that has been eaten by dogs or alligators is not a "body" any more, it is a skeleton (unless the alligator consumed all of it). Someone else on DU pointed out that, in water, the body of a child or elderly person would soon perish because there is not much flesh on them.

I am certain that this is damage-limitation word-games by the US government.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Actually, alligators don't eat that much

about once a week at most and though they are opportunists, human is not a meal they are use to.

I had a gator in my yard one time wrapped around a dead squirrel. He didn't quite know what to do with it, it seemed. The squirrel just wasn't a normal prey item.

[whistle]

31. Face the Nation with Host Bob Schieffer....

... talks to US Army Lt. General Russel Honore, Commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, who admits that the first responders to the areas devastated by Hurricane Katrina admitted that they quote, "were themselves VICTIMS OF THE STORM"....unquote.

What Schieffer failed to ask or bring out was, that if the General knows this, why is BUSH, CHENEY AND EVERY BUSH ADMINISTRATION person throwing blame on local and state officials including first responders for not responding. Senator Landrieu; and Maine Republican Senator Susie Collin were then on as guests and Senator Landrieu made it quite clear from her own first hand observations in meetings she said, that the federal response was un-compassionate, unresponsive and even now two weeks after the event, are still laying blame, subverting moral and adding to the general atmosphere of mistrust, deflection of responsibility and distancing rather then instilling trust, faith, uniting and taking clear and decisive action.

I switched over to This Week (ABC): Host George Stephanopoulos who sure enough was yucking it up with Allen, Senator Barack Obama (D-Illinois), and the Dalai FREAKING Lama who was talking English, but could have benefited from a horizontal scroll in English because I caught only every 4th or 5th word of what he was saying. But even worse were Georges other guests Newt Gingrich, George Will and ABC's "I don't know who" reporter splitting hairs over what all of what Katrina means, staying in denial and defending their ultra-conservative pet poltical and cosmic issues. Shouldn't Newt be buried head down in a deep grave already? As for George Will, he is such an anal retentive, I'm sure his digestive tract is still holding onto some of the baby pablum he was fed as an infant....when ever I hear these neo-conservatives discuss social, economic and political issues, I am reminded that to the conservative even shit is money and they always want more of their share.

[benburch]

34. I would be VERY happy, to find out that the death toll is this small!

I can't imagine what your problem is with this???

[mikefromwichita]

53. AGREED

That is very true. Each additional survivor is a good thing.

[mirror wall]

54. Did you people ever stop to think about exactly WHY there would EVER...

...be an official order preventing the press from documenting the body recovery effort?

Yes, yes, it's since been revoked.

But how many days was it in effect for? Lesse here... From the 6th to the 10th. That's FIVE DAYS. A lot can happen in five days, can't it? That's a whole work week of press blackout. This would have been peak time to start cataloguing the dead as many of the living had finally been airlifted. Thus shifting the priority from rescue to recovery of the dead.

So during that time, THAT FIVE DAY PERIOD, there was no press coverage.

And now, all of a sudden, the death toll is magically ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE SMALLER THAN EVERY EXPERT AND EYEWITNESSES WERE PROJECTING. Imagine that. What a coincidence.

Oh yes, please unleash the GOP talking points upon me. "U R TEH GHOUL FOR WANTIN' DEAD BODIES". No, you freak, you souless spawn of Hell, I do not WISH for more dead bodies.

I want an accurate count. as an American citizen whose government FAILED DISGUSTINGLY, I DESERVE AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT. An account with NO SPIN AND NO DENIAL AND NO GODDAMNED WHITE WASHING. These people, these poor departed souls were OUR COUNTRYMEN. They were KILLED by the sad, disgusting, no-words-in-the-English-language-adequetly-convey-enough-RAGE ineptitude of this squalid administration. That administration does NOT deserve to hide the truth about how many people its jaw-droppingly ill managed disaster prevention/rescue efforts KILLED. These people do not deserve to have their deaths convieniently swept under the rug to allow the isanely corrupt monsters in cheif to escape blame.'

It is important that we try and salvage something of an accurate count of the dead. The spineless fucks who dropped the ball (at ALL levels, but especially in the Federal failure to PREVENT and RESPOND) need to face what they've done. They need to face what can never be undone. They cannot be allowed to hide it from us, and send us back to our sweet fever dream mumbling "Only 1000 dead. That's not so bad. Less than 9/11 which is more important anyway".

Anyone who's not worried that a five week blackout is a long enough time drown evidence in the quagmire down there is either:

1. Stupid as all hell. No, I'm not going to say it nicer than that. Reality hurts sometimes.

2. Stupid as all hell and regurgitating Rove's talking points.

3. Of the prevailing level of soft-mindedness and of the mentality that daddy can tell you that your puppy isn't really dead, just sleeping. And that will make everything ok.

4. Has not been paying very close attention for any number of reasons.

Four is obviously the "best" option up there. Here's hoping that a lot of you fit into that type.

We as citizens (not as "Democrats" per se), as AMERICAN CITIZENS, cannot allow for this disasterous administration to hide the deaths of our fellow countrymen in the same way a spoiled child might hide a broken toy. We must hold them accountable, or any one of us could be next to suffer and die due to their dazziling ineptitude.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Bravo

and welcome to DU

[Joe Chi Minh]

66. A wonderfully telling post.

[Joe Chi Minh]

69. Some interesting letters in answer to a question

in the Daily Mail today: "What is the origin of the name Potter's Field, where homeless people are buried?".

Most of us probably remember the reference to the Potter's field in the account of Christ's passion. The gist of the two replies published is as follows:

(Matthew 27:3-8)
"Then Judas, which had betrayed Him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the 30 pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Saying I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us?
And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.
And the chief priests took the silver peices and said, "It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field to bury strangers in.
Wherefore that field was called, The Field of Blood, unto this day".

Apparently, any area used as a public burial place for poor and unknown people became known as a "Potter's Field".

What happened to the New orleans' people's corpses collected during the week, when reporting on it was prohibited by official order. Where is the Potter's field? Do the neocons rise to the level of the chief priests and elders of the temple in Jerusalem? Or is the final disposal of the bodies of their poor victims to be carried out/has it been carried out, on the basis of a profane and strictly functional expedience; without benefit of clergy. On health grounds, perhaps?

Were they committed to a mass grave or "disappeared" to a secret location far away and/or cremated? Will DNA testing be carried out on any of them for the benefit of relatives? Would not a state funeral and a day of national mourning be appropriate?

[pepperlove]

37. And not that high to whom?

If one of my family or friends died there (or yours) -- guess what? It was wayyyy too high!!!

If Laura had been there and drowned (or one of his drunken daughters), would THAT death toll be too high? Hmmmm?

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. Especially anyone who died after the hurricane passed

and from the flood.

I think it is going to come out to the public soon, that FEMA diverted helicopters that Nagin called in to patch the levees before they breached. It was in the press the next day that he had specifically asked for copter to drop his sandbags at the 17th Street Levee. First FEMA said the copters were on the way. Later on they told him they had to divert them to another operation. Nagin knew then it was too late to save the levee and there was nothing left that he could do.

[pepperlove]

49. I fear

you are right. (shudder)

[Rex]

42. We lost 3,000 and everyone freaked out.

We lost, who knows, maybe 30,000 people or maybe 5,000 people? All I know is that the death toll will be played and replayed by the whore media (that is what news has been reduced to nowadays) and it will hurt the BFEE. This is bad for biz, so a cover up is in order!

Who is gonna stop them? No one.

[FyurFly]

52. My bet would be...

More than 1K, less than 2,500K.

[garybeck]

57. "we don't do body counts"

they want to downplay the death toll because it makes them look bad.

so don't trust the numbers

remember "we don't do body counts."

[demo dutch]

60. Local authorities are keeping records as to the locations of bodies found,

which are then picked up by FEMA. Hopefully at the end of the day they'll be able to compare numbers. Pretty sure the Times-Picayune will be on top of things!

[Joe Chi Minh]

65. This is the reason why it is important

to ignore posts decrying the fact that we are not impressed by the claim that the corpse-count figures MAY be lower than first thought (apart from the obvious corollary that, indeed, on the other hand, they MAY WELL BE. At best, it is pure speculation and completely unscientific, at this early stage, even were Einstein the putative authority). WE KNOW FOR A FACT, BEYOND ALL PERADVENTURE, THAT THE SCALE OF THE SLAUGHTER IS SO HORRENDOUS THAT EVEN A BALL-PARK FIGURE WILL BE IRRELEVANT, PLUS OR MINUS NO MATTER HOW MANY THOUSANDS. The term, "significantly less" is a nonsense.

The reason to repudiate the meme:

In particularly crooked insurance companies, the salesman (financial consultant...!) taking out the policy form to be signed, as he seeks to close the deal, will offer his intended victim his pen, avoiding the word "sign", he will ask something like, "like to put your monikker here?", and will ask "your pen or mine?"

He knows that by doing this, not only is he inviting the person to sign the policy document, the contract, but should the intended victim, in a spirit of friendliness, accept the genially proferred pen, he will have implicitly assented to "putting his monniker" to the contract, and will proceed to do so.

In the case of the corpse-count in New Orleans, should we acquiesce to the meme that the corpse-count "looks like"/"seems"/"is" much better (notice how quickly "looks like being lower" has elided into "is lower"), it will give them an admirable platform upon which to enthusiastically propagate the meme, the New Orleans tragedy was nowhere near as bad as it first seemed....

And, as we have seen, any dissenter, will be accused of wishing that more had been killed! A real Rove kind of trick, it looks like, seems, is..... The Aussies have an expression that fits them to a tee: "as cunning as sh*thouse rats".

By accepting the lesser invitation, the person implicitly assents to the larger proposition without necessarily realising it. In the case of New Orleans, it is not a precise parallel, but near enough for them to make it so, by courtesy of the those they are able to pressure and intimidate and, of course, the media with their endless repetition of this "piously" upbeat meme. Remember, those who question it are heartless ghouls who want more to have been killed.

[Imagevision]

68. BUSH; "right now we're concentrating on saving lives" ...

Body count?-- we'll let you know when the numbers are tallied, 2-300, that'll do...!

http://downingstreetmemo.com/