Here's the Impeachment plan. We DO NOT want B impeached

[johnaries]

before 2006 Elections.

Stay with me - if Bushit is impeached, Cheney is Prez. If Bushit AND Cheney are impeached, HASTERT is Prez! Talk about jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

So, we need to concentrate on the 2006 elections. If we control the House, then we have a strong, capable Dem as House Speaker. Then impeach B* and Cheney, and a smart Dem becomes a real President.

On the other hand, if we REALLY want the 2008 Presidential Election, we go ahead and impeach and let Haster drive our country further into the ground - in which case we have a landslide victory for any Dem President we run.

But, our country has been damaged enough. I'd rather not let Hastert destroy it even further just to win an election. And, by the time he's through destroying our country, I'm not sure ANYONE can put Humpity-Dumpity together again.

[niyad]

1. you have an excellent point--I guess that means waiting on ICC as well?

I was rather hoping the ICC would get the whole bloody administration

[johnaries]

14. The International Criminal Court is powerless unless we agree

B* kept us out of the ICC. Now we know why.

[yourout]

2. Wrong.....Impeachment would tait everyone near it and....

in 2008 we will take back the White House. Then we can gerrymander to our hearts content and make sure the Pukes go the may of the Dinosaur.

[johnaries]

18. Agreed to a point - impeachment would be spun as retaliation

against Clinton's impeachment. However, the Office of President is elected and should be accountable to the People who elected him. We can't "recall" a President except through Impeachment. Although I abhor the Repukes for impeaching Clinton on such a minor charge which had nothing to do with how well he ran the Nation, I can't say that I disagree with the idea that the People need to send a message to a Lame Duck President that they are STILL accountable for their actions.

[Imagevision]

61. Face it...! Right now it's really President Cheney to begin with

This twirp Bush couldn't never screw this country as bad as it is on his own, he's too stupid -- handlers call the shots...Bush takes the heat...this time!!! - I welcome Cheney, at least the facade stops!


http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[CascadeTide]

3. Impeachment would be great but....

I don't see any way to get 2/3rds of congress to go for it. I'ts a moot point, best plan is to be very vocal until 2008 and hope some politicians come up with a plan of action and positive message that will bring in more voters in 2006 and 2008.

[johnaries]

19. Well, that's the point of waiting until after the 2006 elections!

If we can get a simple majority in Congress, there are enough "borderline" Repukes that would jump ship and easily give us the 2/3 majority we need - just to save their own necks!

[CascadeTide]

26. Democrats don't have a simple majority now

So it will have to wait until after the 2006 elections if that's the criteria. Even then, I don't know that you'll find the 80 republicans to make it happen. Maybe, who knows...

[jmowreader]

29. We don't need 80 Republicans

We really only need 15 Representatives and 22 Senators.

The House can refer an impeachment to the Senate with a simple majority, which is how Clinton's impeachment got referred.

In the Senate, we've got to have a two-thirds majority, or 67 ayes. We have 45 already--every Democrat plus Jim Jeffords.

I don't think we'll get an impeachment, though, even if the Republicans deem Bush to be Coleridge's Albatross. Impeachment is a tool for the opposition party to use to get rid of an official. The Republican Party can just call the dipshit in like they did with Nixon and inform him that he's got to go home for the good of the nation, and if he won't they'll impeach him, convict him, have him brought up on criminal charges and put him in prison for the rest of his life. OR...he can resign, turn himself in, and they'll guarantee he'll only get three-to-five in minimum security instead of life without parole in a prison where the shot-caller lost a brother in Iraq.

[johnaries]

40. Exactly, which is why we have to continue working toward that

goal. It still may not happen, but it will NEVER happen if we, the people, don't work for it.

Welcome to DU!
:toast:

[are_we_united_yet]

4. Just a nit

It is the removal of key people we don't want. I say Impeach (indictment?) to show they performed poorly. Senate will probably not have the votes to remove them.

[johnaries]

20. Not as the Senate exists today. After 2006 who knows?

That's why I'm saying that the 2006 Elections are so key to ANY future strategy to getting our country back on the right track!

[Stinky Bushes]

5. I disagree

because of national security issues. Obviously Bush is incompetent and cannot lead or make critical decisions. Who knows when this will happen again, or God forbid, a terrorist attack. We have seen with our own eyes now that FEMA and Bush cannot help us - we're on our own.

I say we demand impeachment IMMEDIATELY and thereafter fry one fish at a time so to speak. Cheney is bad, but at least he can talk in coherent sentences.

[johnaries]

22. Hi, Stinky Bushes! Welcome to DU! I agree that Security is

a major issue, and despite his promises B* has made the situation worse rather than better. As a matter of fact, Security is the reason that I changed my personal stance on Illegal Immigration - previously, I thought it wasn't a "big deal", just unfair to those who chose to immigrate legally. Now, I believe it is a Security issue and needs to be addressed AS a Security issue.

However, even though Cheney can at least - as you pointed out, "speak in coherent sentences", his policies would just be "more of the same."

As much as we DUer's love to make fun of B*'s verbal faux pas, it's his POLICIES that are hurting our country. Cheney would continue to perpetrate the same policies. In which case, an impeachment would have some symbolic value, but otherwise ineffective.

[shraby]

6. Impeachment right now is the way to go because

these things take an inordinate amount of time. That will take us right into 2006 elections.

[johnaries]

23. Yes, it's true that they take an inordinate amount of time. BUT

we simply don't have the votes for impeachment right now. If B*'s numbers continue to drop, maybe the promise of impeachment could be a campaign issue. On the other hand, it could be an impediment if the general public thinks it's too radical a move. But, it is simply not practical right now.

[OKJackson]

58. Don't forget about Fitzgerald

You're not wrong, but I think this will go faster than people think once the Republicans stop squirming and accept that they have to impeach Bush.

[Bobbieo]

7. Impeach Bush?

If we impeach Busy we get more of the same - this time from his puppeteers, but if we don't we're stuck with him 'til '08. Damned if we don't - dammed if we do.

The answer lies in the '06 elections. The Dems MUST reclaim Congress or at least the House.

[johnaries]

24. EXACTLY!!! Thank you! That's what I am saying!

"The answer lies in the '06 elections. The Dems MUST reclaim Congress or at least the House".

That's EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make!!!!
:toast:

As much damage as B* does, and as impatient as we may be to see improvement, we cannot even THINK about Impeachment until we reclaim the House.

[longship]

8. Talk about nuanced... ;-)

This is a real dilemma. I'm totally all over this post. It echoes my thoughts precisely.

There's another way, also. We can set aside impeachment in the hopes of some Repugs realizing that they are dead meat on the hook if they continue to blindly support a totally crippled administration. That's what happened in 1973 and 1974 with Nixon before cries for impeachment reached the level to make it possible. Unfortunately, it all did little good because Dems got precisely one term out of the deal--Jimmy Carter.

Although I hope that Chimpy, Cheney and the whole bunch are impeached, removed from office, and spend the rest of their lives in solitary confinement, I really don't know how that happens.

We're in a fairly big pickle here. What to do?

I think the only responsible thing is to go for it. Impeach the bastards, remove them from office and let the cards fall where they lie. At this point things have gotten so bad, we have an obligation to use the tools put in place by the founding fathers. We need to act like patriots and bring down this horrible administration the best we can and as soon as we can. The world cannot stand three more years of this. Certainly our country cannot.

on edit: clarification

[johnaries]

27. Excellent post! And very thought-provoking...

Yes, I agree that the longer this Admin stays in power the more people will suffer. And I wish to avoid that suffering any way possible.

But, my thoughts are that if we "go all out" now to try and alleviate the suffering, we probably won't succeed - they will still continue to suffer and more people will suffer in the long run as a result.

I agree with your sentiments in many ways - we should do anything we can to help NOW! However, whether we like it or not, we have been locked in a Chess game not of our choosing. The true neo-cons are not our problem - neo-cons by definition are "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" and I could actually agree with that philosophy in many circumstances! However, the PNAC controlled B* Admin is actually a pack of Straussian wolves using the neo-con wool as sheep's clothing.

We have to win the Chess game. We can do so and still minimize suffering in the process, but it won't be easy. As much as I would love to see an "all or nothing" effort right now, I'm afraid we would be left with "NOTHING".

[longship]

37. Gawd! There's that problem again.

What if we fail? Do we make things worse? Do we actually know that? I don't think we can predict what will happen here. We're in totally new territory.

However, we now have every reason to believe that the incompetence of Katrina extends into all other national and international policies and practices. The neocons are doing some things which is scaring the bejesus out of me. I do not see how we can not push forward at this time. In fact, I think we now have a patriotic mandate to move forward with all due dispatch to remove the whole bunch.

Impeachment is no longer an option. It is an imperative. And we have to go after all of them. It's not going to be easy or pretty. But we have to keep pushing for it until it happens.

[johnaries]

38. Yeah, it is hard predicting the future, isn't it?

Perhaps it takes both of us - me pushing for the 2006 Elections in order to impeach, and you to keep calling for Impeachment Now! to keep it keep it forefront in everyone's mind.

Tell you what, you work one front, and I'll work the other. As long as we work together for the same final Goal!

:toast:

[longship]

43. Oh, Yes!

Well, our strategies are really the same. It took the better part of a year to get the wheels in motion to impeach Nixon, which he only avoided by resigning. Same with Clinton who was impeached, but acquitted.

There will have to be hearings (probably in both houses), there will have to be an investigation into the allegations even before articles can be debated. Then there's the House Judiciary Committee agreeing to the articles. Then a House vote.

It doesn't matter if it's labelled as partisan at this point. The voters *know* the truth now. Chimpy has fallen from grace. We *will* get Republican support from some. That's all we'll need.

So you see, by the time Nov 2006 rolls around we have to have everything in line to go. That means we have a lot of public opinion to turn between now and then.

And if we fail? When Chimp destroys the economy and everything else, at least we'll have gone on the record that he was bad.

On the other hand, if we sit back and wait, our children and our children's children may hate us for it.

[johnaries]

48. I think you may have hit the nail on the head!

"It doesn't matter if it's labeled as partisan at this point. The voters *know* the truth now. Chimpy has fallen from grace. We *will* get Republican support from some. That's all we'll need."

- Yes, the public now knows that the Chimperor and his ilk is evil.

"by the time Nov 2006 rolls around we have to have everything in line to go. That means we have a lot of public opinion to turn between now and then."

- You're right. Even though the public knows that Bushit is evil, we have allowed too many pundits to redefine the very word "Liberal" until for some it is synonymous with "Communist". And so, it is a matter of the "lesser of two evils" and they'll go for the "Evil Capitalist" over the "Evil Communist" every time. We do need to reverse the misconceptions that the RW has painted. Just because the GOP has screwed up doesn't mean that the public will trust the Dems to do any better.

[longship]

53. Boy! I keep reading thoughts out of my own mind.

We do need to reverse the misconceptions that the RW has painted. Just because the GOP has screwed up doesn't mean that the public will trust the Dems to do any better.

The only way we can do that is combine a positive campaign with an impeachment drum beat. We need to portray Dems as the solution (along with driving the incompentents out of office). We need to put forth solutions and ridicule the lies of the Repugs.

When they say "Government is not the solution" we respond with "Incompetence is not a solution".

"Do you trust anything said by the very people who have brought this country to near ruin?"

People now unequivocally know that there are some government functions which are obligatory, like protecting the country from attack and protecting life in a disaster, natural or otherwise. The whole world is acutely aware of the failure of the Repugs at the ideological basis. We don't have to do a lot of work here, but to remind everybody where these fools have brought us.

Beat the drum. Impeach now. Keep beating it.

[Just Me]

55. Hope you don't mind my jumping in here.

The biggest, most destructive mistake the Democrats made was a failure to aggressively wage an accountability war on those who f*cked our country and our people. Of course, there was a major social and political evolution happening during the late 60's and early 70's.

Yes, the drumbeat of IMPEACH INDICT IMPRISON of this entire regime is not only appropriate, but absolutely imperative.

However, the drumbeat must go past the political damage and onward to demand FULL ACCOUNTABILITY of every single participant and constituent. Otherwise, the "cancer" will, once again, grow and infect and destroy. We must learn from history if we are intent upon avoiding repetition of it.

Just MHO.

[longship]

56. It goes without saying.

Accountability *must* be part of the drum beat. We must also continue to remind people where the buck stops.

[Just Me]

59. The rule of law must be applied consistently and aggressively,...

,...especially to those who are suppose to be the superior among us and serve as representatives of our people.

[wuushew]

9. President Hastert would be no worse than ShrubCo

It would prove that that there are political consequences for being a warmongering asshole and thus beneficially keep us from war with Iran.


Also if Hastert follows the Gerald Ford example the 2008 election will go to the opposition party. Hopefully Ohio will be cleansed of Republican scum in 2006 so that a fraud proof Presidential election can be held in 2008.

[emulatorloo]

16. and President Hastert is a charmless lackluster sack of potatoes

He cannot sell the GOP's agenda. even with a Karl Rove makeover

[johnaries]

28. You're right! And maybe that WOULD be the best scenario

in the long run.

But, again, Hastert could run this country so far into the ground that NO President, no matter how good he was, could put Humpity-Dumpity together again. Then, the Dem President would be blamed for not being able to correct the previous failures.

Thanks for bringing up Carter, for this was his legacy and his lesson.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. Amazing. Are you going to be able to control the election results....

...like the GOP did in 2000, 2002, and 2004??

Don't you get it yet?? We NO LONGER have free elections!! What the heck else do you need shoved down your throat to understand that??

The only way this nightmare is going to be reversed is to get the whole diseased NeoCon lot hauled off to prison, or somehow removed from power.

[johnaries]

30. Hauling them to prison on charges unrelated to Election Fraud

will not solve the BBV issues.

What we need is a landslide victory that even BBV fraud cannot solve.

We cannot do anything about Election Fraud until we re-take Congress.

A real Catch-22 situation. We can't eliminate BBV faud until we re-take Congress, and, we can't retake Congress until BBV fraud is eliminated!

Unless, the results are such a landslide that even BBV fraud can't make up for it. Or, if it does, the difference is so obvious that the BBV fraud is finally brought to light and exposed.

So, please continue on your efforts to expose BBV fraud and let me know if I can help. I will continue to work on the Landslide that is otherwise needed to eliminate it.

We can do it, if we work together!

[electron_blue]

45. yes, thanks for pointing that out.

How funny that we posted similar thoughts at the same time.

I agree that this is of the utmost importance. What does it matter if we remove Bush only to have his cronies stay in office and get "re-elected" next year?

[electron_blue]

11. campaign finance reform, election booth reform

are both needed for citizens to take back the election process.

[johnaries]

31. Agreed! See my post #30. n/t

[magnolia]

12. I thought of this months ago...

...when we were talking impeachment over the war. Better to do it after 2006 and have President Pelosi. We can't afford to let them run our country further into the ground. If there isn't even the illusion of being safe, then we've pretty much hit rock bottom.

I honestly don't see a woman being elected president anytime soon...not even Hillary. So I'd love to see a woman in, even by default and have her do a really great job.

[johnaries]

32. Great Minds think alike!

:hi:

[cynatnite]

13. And how powerful would hastert be after that?

He'd be the most powerful repub in the party, but the weakest president this country has ever seen. He'd be a lame duck and the repuke party would be a national shame...well it already is, but more so after having their two golden boys impeached. No agenda of theirs would ever see the light of day. Hastert would be an international joke and not taken seriously.

I say: IMPEACH, INDICT, IMPRISON!!!

[johnaries]

33. Yes, he would. He'd be less than Ford.

And that's the question!

Maybe in the long run that would be the best answer! As I said, we would definitely win in 2008. But, would the country be in such a mess that even our best couldn't fix it in time for 2012?

These are the questions we should ask ourselves.

[cynatnite]

42. I don't know about fixing it by 2012...you're right about that

It seems to me the repubs would be given a blow by having their top guys impeached and removed. Whether they could recover enough to regain the trust of the American people would be questionable.

Fixing the mess made by these guys could bring about more problems. For some reason I'm reminded of what I learned about reconstruction post-Civil War in college.

[Kazak]

15. Nancy Pelosi in '06!!

:thumbsup:

Edit: D'oh! Grammer error.

[lebkuchen]

17. As if the 2006 election will be less corrupt than 2004 and 2000

Dream on

[johnaries]

34. No, we CAN"T expect it to be less corrupt ...

which is why we need a LANDSLIDE victory and continue to work on exposing BBV fraud. We need a TEAM effort!

Please see my post #30.

And, yes, "I have a Dream!"

[K8-EEE]

21. Kick And Recommended

I agree completely. Strategy is everything or else the impeachment won't change anything.

[Joe Chi Minh]

25. Tut! tut!

You don't really believe that, do you...? Any neocon ending up with the reins of office will be roadkill.

[johnaries]

35. Oh, God! I HOPE so! But... n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

36. But what? Do you really think most Americans

have less of a sense of outrage than you? That they are not incandescent?

[johnaries]

39. Well, I'm not sure about "most", but I'm certain "many" of them do.

I can only hope that in the future "more" of them feel outrage!

And I can only work to ensure that they do.

[Joe Chi Minh]

62. A small neocon Republican rump.

[Whoa_Nelly]

41. However, I think Hastert could be subjected to an election recall

Something I just learned:

http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_a7.html

Q130. "I know the state of California recently did a recall election on their governor. Can recalls be done against any elected officials?"

A. The recallability of any state or local elected official is subject to the laws of the state or locality, so it is hard to give a general answer to that part of the question. The President and Vice President can only be removed via impeachment. The other elected federal officials are Senators and Representatives. The Constitution does not specify that they can be recalled, nor does it say that they cannot be. The courts have never ruled on the subject. So the question is unresolved. However, several things point to the unconstitutionality of recalls of federal officers. First, the terms of Senators and Representative are set to six and two years respectively; a recall would effective reduce the term. Second, the Supreme Court has said that Senators and Representatives cannot have term limits; a recall is akin to a term limit in its practical application. Lastly, each house of Congress has the power to expel members; if a member has committed acts that could lead to a recall, the acts could just as easily lead to expulsion. It is likely that a vote of no confidence from a state's electorate would go a long way in influencing an expulsion vote.

[Sapphire Blue]

54. Recall The Congress...

http://www.recallthecongress.com/

[Sapphire Blue]

44. Flash: GOP Swept from Power in 2006; Impeachment Looms

Flash: GOP Swept from Power in 2006;
Impeachment Looms

By Bernard Weiner and Ernest Partridge
Co-Editors, The Crisis Papers
May 31, 2005

(Associated Press, Nov. 8, 2006)

(excerpt)

The incoming Democratic chairs of the various investigatory committees announced that subpoenas would be going out immediately to the White House for all documents relating to when and how the decision to attack Iraq was made; to how far up the chain of command the authorization for torture went; and whether Bush and Cheney and/or their subordinates lied to the Congress and the American People. Congressional committees also will be on the lookout for evidence of Administration involvement in war crimes, bribery and election fraud, Democratic officials said.

It is expected that bills of impeachment will be filed shortly thereafter against both President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.

If both Bush and Cheney are removed from office, the new Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, would become the President, as stipulated in the Presidential Succession Act of 1947; she would nominate a Vice President for approval by the Senate.

<snip>

THE ROAD TO IMPEACHMENT

The sudden decline of the Republican Party and the likely downfall of the Bush-Cheney administration follows a cascade of catastrophes and unexpected reversals of fortune for the White House during the second Bush term.
___________________________________________________________________

Well, friends, if you want to make something happen like the possible landslide defeat of the Bush Administration described above, it's time to crank up your activism NOW in preparation for the all-important 2006 midterm election. Just wishing for it, or starting to think about it a few months before the voting, won't make it happen. The time for political pressure and coalition-building -- and demanding honest vote-counting with hand-counted paper ballots -- is today. Organize, organize, organize!


Read the rest @ http://www.crisispapers.org/essays-w/impeachment.htm

[johnaries]

50. YES! Wouldn't that be a beautiful sight to behold? n/t

[Seabiscuit]

46. Bush ran this country into the ground 2000-2004 yet where was the

landslide Democratic victory in 2004????

[rumpel]

47. Let's change the sequence,then. Out with Hastert & Delay, then Bush & Co

[Bernardo de La Paz]

49. Keep the Pressure On. Impeachment or not, pressure works

Keep the pressure on. The Truth Party (Democrats) must not neglect power. The Power Party (Republicans) never neglects power, but they don't care about truth.

Pressure is effective. It limits the scope of action of Bush, it strengthens the opposition, it forces the Republicans to commit themselves and expose themselves when they'd rather not.

Pressure forced the Republicans to talk about and come close to the naked use of majority in Senate confirmations. Pressure limited Bush to a narrow victory in 2004, and possibly forced Rove et al to resort to illegal voting practices. Pressure costs money to fat cat contributors to the Republicans.

Keep the pressure on in big and little ways.

[belle]

51. If we had ham, we could have ham and eggs...if we had some eggs...

which we shouldn't be counting or their future contents either, if you get my drift?

[johnaries]

52. LOL! True! But I'm not exactly sure what point you're making

here.

I can see the pig, and I can see the chicken. So, it is possible to have ham, and it is possible to have eggs - as long as we don't scare one off by going after the other.

If we slaughter the pig first, we'll probably scare off the chicken in the process. So, let's quietly go after the eggs, and once we have them in hand we can chase down the pig.

Make sense?

[Cleita]

57. If you don't move to impeach them now there won't be any

2006 elections. If they get away with their criminal acts, it will only embolden them to commit more criminal acts. If there is an independent investigation into impeachment it will bring down Cheney and the rest of them with what will be revealed. Even with Hastert as President, he will be only a political eunuch by then.

[ThomWV]

60. WTF? How About Don't Go To The Dentist Because It Will Hurt?

Impeach the son of a bitch, do it now. Then throw him in prison. Don't worry about who follows. Whoever it is will only get to finish out Bush's term and will be the lamest fucking duck that ever sat in a pot.