Cult deprogramming, maybe?

[Stinky The Clown]

Okay, I have all too frequently been finding myself out at the end of this damned limb. It was a nice Sunday here in nutville, so out there I crawled again. This time, I came back with a thought about cult deprogramming.

Is something like that on a mass scale needed? Possible?

I ask because there's no way this country can still have as many as 38% of the citizenry supporting the idiot in charge.

The man has fucked up everything he ever did. It is a painfully obvious consistency for him.

Brainwashing is the only logical cause I can come up with.

Maybe we can channel Jim Jones for some insight?

I know, I know. Fucked up thoughts.

But come on ... how else do we explain his continuing high poll numbers? That 38% should, by all logic, be 18%.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. It ist he nature of the true believer

they are true believers, it is a religion to them... where do you think Denazification came from

[Sapphire Blue]

2. I've suggested this before, and I was NOT kidding.

[fooj]

5. I'm not kidding, either.

Plenty of reason to suspect it.

Peace.

[glitch]

6. me too and me neither. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

13. I wasn't kidding when I made ths post, either

I really do believe that there is some degree of cultism associated with idiot son's hard core supporters.

To be sure, that doesn't apply to the majority of repubs. Most of them are just plain 'richists', sexists, racists, etc. .... or some combination thereof.

Now, to carry further the cultism issue ... maybe they're not cultish about idiot son, per se, but cultist about their preachers .... and they do whatever the preachers tell 'em to do ....... and the prechers, in turn, tell 'em to vote for the guy that's good for the preachers.

[Sapphire Blue]

16. A couple of interesting articles on cult/media brainwashing...

bush supporters are fucking brainwashed, and do need to be deprogrammed. Dr. Dean should hire a cult deprogrammer to work on this country.

Political Propaganda Is Cult Brainwashing

By James Hall

"A successful induction by a destructive cult displaces a person's former identity and replaces it with a new one. That new identity may not be one that the person would have freely chosen under her own volition." - Steven Hassan

Nothing is unusual about office holders, political parties and agency bureaucracies taking liberties with facts, when they frame their case and sell their policies and programs. But how many people look upon this process as one designed, not to persuade you; but to indoctrinate you into accepting causes that are not in your own self interest. The techniques of agenda shaping and peer pressure guiding is sophisticated and Sub-Rosa in intent. According to Margaret Thaler Singer, “Thought Reform is not a mysterious process. It is the systematic application of psychological and social influence techniques in an organized programmatic way within a constructed and managed environments. The goal is to produce specific attitudinal and behavioral changes. The changes occur incrementally without its being patently visible to those undergoing the process that their attitudes and behavior are being changed a step at a time according to the plan of those directing the program.”

The Six Conditions for Thought Reform are:

1) Keep the person unaware of what is going on and how she or he is being changed a step at a time.

2) Control the person’s social and/or physical environment; especially control the person’s time.

3) Systematically create a sense of powerlessness in the person.

4) Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments and experiences in such a way as to inhibit behavior that reflects the person’s former social identity.

5) Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in order to promote learning the group’s ideology or belief system and group-approved behaviors.

6) Put forth a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure that permits no feedback and refuses to be modified except by leadership approval or executive order.

<snip>

Now review the following Chart that identifies the progression from individual education to mass control:


Continued @ http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_hall_011503_propaganda.html

MASS MEDIA BRAINWASHING

“The rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious. The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly... it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”— Joseph Goebbels Nazi Propaganda Minister

<snip>

Take it from Goebbels and Hitler, true experts on mass-brainwashing. And the U.S. government, particularly the CIA, has learned a great deal from the Nazis. The Nazis in turn learned a great deal from American corporate advertising techniques and the American mass-media. The American corporate mass-media is the world’s greatest practitioner of what its student Goebbels preached: repeating simple-minded lies over and over for months and years, until the lies take on a life of their own and all the American sheeple repeat them unthinkingly as commonly accepted “facts”.

<snip>

The key phrase in Krugman's findings was that TV transmits information not thought about at the time of exposure. As Herbert Krugman noted, we do not consciously or rationally attend to the material resonating with our unconscious depths at the time of transmission. Later, however, when we encounter a store display, or a real-life situation, or a name on a ballot that conjures up our television experience of the candidate, a wealth of associations is triggered.

<snip>

As real-life experience is increasingly replaced by the mediated 'experience', it becomes easy for politicians and market-researchers of all sorts to rely on a base of mediated mass experience that can be evoked by appropriate triggers. The TV 'world' becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: the mass mind takes shape, its participants acting according to media-derived impulses and believing them to be their own personal volition arising out of their own desires and needs. In such a situation, whoever controls the screen controls the future, the past, and the present.

http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/TV.html

[Mist]

3. It's all about the denial. Plus, I don't believe *'s numbers are that high

I'm thinking the poll numbers are hovering around 29 or lower. I think the pollsters are calling the same people (some polls are known to "trend Repub.") I figure if they're admitting to 38, it's much lower. (Perhaps this is my own form of denial!)

[Henny Penny]

7. Hey, if they can fix an election....

[unless]

4. Liberal Media?

Are peple maybe not listening to the media because it is "Liberal"? It had that stigma some time ago although I can't see how anyone could think that way since the MSM is using WH talking points...

-unless (Token Liberal Fundamentalist)

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Funny that point was not argued last night

I had a "talk" with some freepers... the programing is deep, but once I made the point that media is not lib'ral they did not argue... I saw that as hopeful, maybe

[Henny Penny]

9. We all have are own little reality, that we create in our heads...

(not just in nutville)...

And if you're just about doin' OK, the last thing you need is some pesky tv news/neighbour/website/rap song/ telling you that all is not right with your world view. Hell, if you're wrong about the Preznint, might you also be wrong about your job security, the ecconomy, your wife's relationship with the good reverend....God??? aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

No, no.... much better to keep your head in the sand until things are really falling down around your ears! The scary thing is.. this description usually applies to about 80% of any society.... the fact that its down to 38% right now...might just mean "the sky's a fallin...!"

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. He was programmed by christians

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4719259

A couple of evangelical preachers with political connections and ultimately Billy Graham who also has political connections convinced him he has been selected for great destiny.

Born again does not mean twice as many rights.

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. There are lots and lots of followers in our country, as well as non-

thinkers. Look at the popularity of reality shows, TV Poker, the car crash watchers who can't tear themselves away from the latest whitesexcrimemurders, missingarubablones, etc. Bill Moyers had a great comment - if something fits into people' belief system, it is more powerful to them than the truth - in fact it is the truth.

so, you add up the wannabe cowboys, anesthetized couch potatoes, televangelist watchers, rabid antiabortionists, etc - yes, and those who selfishly guard every cent though they have millions - and you have a pretty healthy, likely immovable base - unless the shit hits the fan for them (and even then, many may be too dumb to realize it)


Sad and surprising, but probably true.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

12. This might be a tad simplistic...

But many of his supporters do believe he's a godly man and that God chose him to be Our Leader for This Time. And it's so ingrained in them by now that it's impossible to believe that God has lied to them, or that they guessed wrong on * being His choice.

They constitute (more or less) 80 percent of his base, the others being the staunch Clinton Haters, and those who have him, or vice versa, by the purse string.

[bobbieinok]

19. students, minister told me God went into the FL ballot boxes to choose W

congregations were praying all during FL 2000 fight that 'god' would see to it that W won

I got blank stares when I would say something like 'my God doesn't steal elections'

in a conversation with another student, she talked about the bias of the various TV networks.......when I said, 'don't forget that (Pat Robertson's) 700 Club is also biased', she just stared at me.....what I got from that was 'the 700 Club is truth, every other source is biased'

I don't know how you can get through to people like that

[Cleita]

14. I liken this RW takeover of our country to a disease, like cancer.

That 38% is like a cancerous tumor that needs to be shrunk or surgically removed so it doesn't spread. Now I think we have succeeded in shrinking the tumor from what was at 75% of the population in lockstep back after 9-11-2001 to that 38% that's there today. Surgical removal isn't feasible because it would amount to genocide. It won't shrink any further, so I think our only option is to contain it, render it harmless, and keep it from spreading again.

[mogster]

15. Maybe the churches not evangelical could do something too

I know next to nothing about the layout of Christianity in the US, but shouldn't there be some Way Out-initiative towards the extreme evangelicals, from the 'normal' churches? It's a pretty tough thing coming off the propaganda and face reality, and if they had another Jesus waiting in the other end, it might be easier.

Just a thought.

[unless]

22. Some are. The problem is that the RW churches are violating

their tax-free status when they promote a specific candidate/party. Other churches would be doing the same if they spoke out against that candidate/party.

It puts liberal churches in a bad spot, because we also believe that we should be promoting ecumenism (unity across denominations).

The other issue is that there are a few buzz reasons why they aren't voting for democratic candidates:
Pro-Choice
Gay Rights/Marriage
Prayer in School
The United Church of Christ (fairly uniquely) supports the liberal viewpoint on all of these issues:
http://www.ucc.org/justice/choice/
http://www.ucc.org/lgbt/
http://www.ucc.org/justice/index.html

but most churches don't. Frankly, while I don't have a full-blown conservative perspective on any of these issues, I have to say that I can't accept the liberal platform without some clauses. I grew up Baptist & was a freep until about 5 minutes before I voted for Kerry.

I might be a fiscal democrat but I am a moral conservative - and there are a lot of Christians like me - Catholic, Amish/Mennonite, and Protestant - people who would be tempted to vote on moral issues rather than on fiscal/social ones. Rove has figured that out.

I think that finding a candidate for 2008 who is morally conservative but fiscally/socially radical is key.

[marions ghost]

24. also see

The Jacksonville Declaration:

http://www.religionnews.com/press02/PR062205B.html

[unless]

25. Still not the right message....

The Christian Alliance for Progress, founded firmly on the teachings of the gospel, will stand for pursuing economic justice; responsible environmental stewardship; equality for gays and lesbians; honoring the sanctity of childbearing decisions through effective prevention, not criminalization of abortion; seeking peace, not war; and achieving health care for all Americans.

OK - what do we have here?

1) Economic justice
The only sticky point here is "welfare" right? and any Christian is going to have a hard time arguing against it.

2) Responsible environmental stewardship
Only Rush can argue against "This is my father's world"... :)
I think most Christians could easily be swayed by "How Great Thou Art" and some information about recycling and pollution.

3) Equality for alternative lifestyles
Bear with me here. "Equality" is not the best word - People in this situation are not "second class citizens" - they are not like women before suffrage or blacks before they got the vote. They are, currently, people whose normal life activities are hampered by laws - marriage, adoption, insurance, etc. I asked my sister in law & her girlfriend (both activists and democrats) if they would rather have a democratic PRESIDENT who did not promote gay rights or an unsuccessful candidate who promoted gay rights - and they both said they would happily vote in the primaries for the former because the latter WOULD NOT WIN.
If you put this kind of message out, it will be the first thing that people hear. It's one of those "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" issues...I say, put it away and bring it out again when there is a house majority and a dem president.

4) Pro-choice message
I think the only good Christian pro-choice message is "Cheap, Safe, and Never". Any other message, and you might as well eat babies.

5) Peace
I would hope this would be a no-brainer

6) Health care
Same w/ #1

I think if they dropped #3 and #4 (or kept them in their back pockets for private discussion with interested parties) they'd have a winning strategy. There are six points here, four are inarguably brilliant. Two clash with all but the extremely liberal Christian denominations -
WHY EMPHASIZE the clash? Why not emphasize the four points that mesh?

[jsamuel]

17. Cult of Personality

[Murdock]

18. Dick Sutphen has written extensively on the subject..

Dick Sutphen is a professinal hypnotist and Neuro Linguistic Programmer.. He's written in depth on the issue..

http://www.dicksutphen.com/html/battlemind.html

Read this and you'll be able to see through most all of what politicians/religious leaders and the like are doing..

[unless]

20. Their leaders tell them...

Don't vote for the guy who will pass laws against what we believe in.

For example:

Up until the 1972, Catholics could be counted on to vote democratic. The National Congress of Bishops pushed this to improve government spending on social programs. (Think of the semi-socialist "Catholic Worker")

Pope John Paul II changed that - why?
The Pill and Abortion.

He advocated for Nixon, and has for every Republican since.

During the 2004 campaign, the Congress of Catholic Bishops campaigned HEAVILY against Kerry - some leaders said he should be denied communion because he is pro-choice.

Karl Rove figured out that Catholics always vote for the winner (they're a "bell-weather" group). 1:5 voters is a non-Hispanic Catholic.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

21. I also think, there is an irrational inability to be wrong with these

people. This is also a product of corporate training as well. The blame game is right out of the corp. play book, which is why we are in the predicament we are.

Some ex's. while my co-workers and bosses were looking where to put blame, I fixed the problem. That is my mind-set, just fix it and move on. They would come back and tell who did what, why this happened and I would just say, "It's fixed!". They looked at me in shock.

Or, as an ex-systems person, the bosses would say can we do this? I would say "Yes we can, but there are implications further down the line." In my mind if you fix something here, that causes a problem there (part of the same problem), you are not fixing the problem but creating a related problem. They didn't want to hear that, because that was a different problem in their mind. My bosses would say "Can we do this, Yes or No".

We have created this incompetency throughout our society, and I think this was part of the problem with FEMA.

It is so prevalent in this society, that I don't know how to change the situation.

[KittyWampus]

23. Artwork, Movies, Theater, Literature. The Only Way To Do It Effectively

there's definately a core that won't snap out of it.

But MOST human beings have a desire for stability and appreciate the Common Good.

I'm one of those who believe the Democrats have done a really BAD job of stating their case in terms that actually MOVE people emotionally.

We are not machines or purely rational beings.