I snuck into the Freedom Walk rally (pic)

[no_to_war_economy]

[liberal N proud]

1. .

:rofl:

[SpiralHawk]

2. Seig Heil - Seig Heil - Right in the Bushler's face

Twwwwwppppp!~

[mirandapriestly]

3. HA HA, HILARIOUS! nt

[Catchawave]

4. I was there too !

[m_welby]

5. you can't fool me...

you need to photoshop out 99% of the attendees. Apparently there were more people at the your average local harvest festival than were there.

[MADem]

And the ones in uniform were there under orders

I'm sure there was a muster and a uniform inspection before the events, as well. Gee, what fun....not.

[MADem]

34. dupe, damn jumpy mouse!

Sorry...!

[deutsey]

6. Dupeland, Dupeland, Uber Alles

[whatever4]

7. and our children

Taken from
http://rexcurry.net/pledgesalute.html

"ROMAN SALUTE"
MYTH EXPOSED

As an attorney, I am asked about historical litigation of the pledge of allegiance. The history of the pledge shocked my libertarian mind. The "Roman salute" myth is used in the same way that the word "Nazi" is used: To cover-up for socialism. It covers-up the fact that government inside the U.S. promoted socialized schools, military socialism within government schools, the creation of industrial armies, and daily robotic pledges of allegiance in military formation with the infamous straight-arm salute (the salute of the National Socialist German Workers' Party or "Nazis"). Francis Bellamy and his cousin and cohort, the author Edward Bellamy, were self-proclaimed national socialists in the U.S. who promoted "military socialism" and the straight-armed salute, and they did it 3 decades before the Nazis. "

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. Isn't a simpler explanation that the Americans took it from Romans too?

The Romans DID salute like that, you know. Are you saying that an outstretched right arm is inherently evil? Or inherently socialist? Are those synonymous?

And while I'm at it, are public schools inherently evil?

What is your opinion about how Scandinavians run their countries?

(Interesting tidbit: I remember doing a "flag pledge" in scholl during the military dictatorship. We were asked to outstretch our right arms. It was the Nazi salute but with the arm in an horizontal position instead. My school was private, and the dictatorship was hardly socialist.)

[whatever4]

19. Hmmm

Okay, I can see your point, but the idea of nationalism leading to forgetting principles and instead blindly following a "leader" is pretty much the same, isn't it? And does it matter, are we any better than the nazis for having borrowed it from the same source? The romans were so peace like?

I'd say, to the rest of the world, the nazis with their salute were seen as evil, whether it came from Rome or not.

Public schools in general? Yes, they can be quite evil, foolish in their team work, pushing organizational skills over intellectual endeavors, and basically teaching kids that the bullies that get away with what they want are, indeed, the leaders. Cheating is so common, I have to tell my kids constantly that I don't want them to do it to make the grades. Their best friends all cheat, all the time. It's the norm.

I have kids in school. I KNOW. I've heard the stories, I've had to confront the idiotic teachers, narrow-minded individuals who look like they would fairly well faint at a curse word, but speak blithely about how if my son doesn't learn how to work well in teams, he won't be able to find a job, he'll have problems in life. Forget being an inventor. I guess it isn't popular nowadays. In school, where it's all about thought and creativity and asking questions...sure.

These are the teachers that marked my sons paper wrong because in math he measured an angle at 89 degrees, by using his protractor. Now, the angle in question DID NOT have the standard box mark to indicate it was given as an exact 90 degree angle. I know. I saw the paper. It was just another angle in a group of them. I remembered some of my math, and not even a math major, even I knew that without the given right angle mark, it was WRONG to assume it's 90 degrees. He measured it, it was 89, and he thought that would be the appropriate answer.

It was marked wrong.

He got upset.

He argued with the teacher, but she insisted that because it obviously was supposed to be a right angle, that he should have just gone ahead and written 90 degrees. That he knew it was supposed to be exactly 90 degrees. He was misbehaving.

This in a math class teaching how to measure angles. Being expected to approximate them without being told, being expected to assume, for no reason at all. Forget teaching precision. They're teaching conformity. Period

Apparently, this math teacher had no knowledge of acceptable limits, tolerance, plus or minus 2 degrees. As far as I know, she still doesn't.

She wanted him to write what he was supposed to write. Even though it wasn't what he measured. Though he was supposed to measure it, per instructions. He refused to back down off the 89 degrees, because he said she was wrong, and the angle measured at 89, so it should be right.

He was sent to the principal. He was 10 years old. He was upset and I got called at work.

This is just one story. Schools evil? I rest my case.

Yes, the schools can be quite evil with our children. They can be flat-out stupid, and evil or not, it's not unusual at all.

And btw, after the mis-measured angle saga, they fixed the problem. From then on, the kids weren't to bring in protractors; they were provided protractors in class. So the would all measure the same thing. That was their fix for kids who measured 89 degrees. Make sure they all have the same measuring equipment, and then NO one has an excuse to measure anything other than the group.

Public schools evil? Only as evil as the people running them. All at perfect little right angles.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

24. Dude...

Jackass teachers who won't admit when they're wrong are everywhere. As I said before, I attended a private school. I speak from personal experience. And some third-party experience too.

If you're thinking your children will be in educational nirvana if they just escape the clutches of evil socialist public schools, you're severely delusional.

And what about my other questions?

[whatever4]

26. Bit off more than I could chew

I think it would be pointless for me to try to answer your other questions. I think I am likely not qualified, and my opinins are subjective at best. Tired of fighting. You win. Whatever it is. YOu win.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. And you expect us to believe this incident with the right angle

measurement actually resulted in ridding the kids of their own protractors? I suppose the next logical conclusion is the school's protractors were rigged?

:tinfoilhat:

:rofl:

Thanks for the entertaining post.

[whatever4]

44. My, how insulting

Oh, heck no; I expect you to believe anything you please, and take all posts with a grain of salt.

You'd as soon think I fabricated that story, about my own children, as believe it was a true account? This bothers me?? Only in your own mind.

It rather goes without saying that many "stories" may or may not be true, exaggerated, poorly told or misunderstood by the writer. The point of pointing it out, to me, is what again? A needless insult. I have to say, though, since you felt the need to say it, it would have to give me expectations of your own beliefs and to take your own statements with...extra salt.

Always happy to entertain. Most especially myself ;)

[MADem]

35. And those Romans were hardly socialists

what with their slaves, plebians and nobles!!!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. That is an incredible, almost critical mass, of bullshit.

Bellamy was a socialist, not a 'national socialist'. Nazis and communists are both totalitarian, but are otherwise totally dissimilar, so linking the two opposing political/economic philosophies is disingenuous at best. The nazi salute us a point of contention in the 36 olympics because it was hitler's olympics, and the nazi salute was never a 'Olympic salute'. "Government" schools, presumably a reference to non-private schools, never used the nazi salute during the pledge, and the pledge itself was not widely used until the 30s.

It was, I admit, a fascinating if twisted read.

[pnorman]

16. The socialist salute is

pumping the (right arm) clenched fist outwards. The arm is rarely if ever a stiff straight arm. The military-type mass unison is a figment of that guy's imagination. The name of Edward Bellamy's somewhat idiosyncritic "socialist" organization was "Nationalist Club", although totally lacking in the jingoism/racism associated with present day usage of "Nationalism". And the clever juxtaposition of "nationalism" and "socialism" is a tip-off to his intellectual dishonesty.

pnorman

[whatever4]

20. Funny, didn't expect this reaction

I just thought this picture, our true history, would be a good complement to the posted pic. It's just history. OUR history.

I thought what it said about us THEN was an interesting comparison to what the poster was saying about us NOW.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. That wasn't history, that was a distorted version thereof.

Hence the reaction.

[whatever4]

27. Well, it was a picture

Distorted as it may have been, just a picture. And it's not the only picture I've seen of kids in school holding their arms up and saluting the flag. I've seen pictures of hundred of kids doing it.

But, so what, hardly matters, we have bigger and better monsters about. So they use the same mindless nationalistic ideas of pledges and USA USA!! So it has that same "my country, right or wrong" mindset

Hardly matters now. Not even worth remembering.

Silly me.

done now

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. Checking sources and getting the facts right helps.

I, too, have seen pictures of school children pledging the flag with the nazi salute - but the source clearly identified the children as being in a private 'bund' supported school in the late thirties. This country has no shortage of nazis, you know. Also seen pictures from 'christian' camps and white supremecist rallys that look much the same. The article itself says it found "no evidence" for it being in general use in american schools -- that's because it didn't happen.

Personally, I've always felt the pledge was an abomination -- it was the product of the rise of nationalism and european imperialism at the turn of the century, which led to both the world wars. Before WWI, most countries did not have national anthems, or pledges of allegiance, or strict immigration policies. Nationalism is a 19th century construct intended to counter the internationalistic movements which threatened the power bases of the hereditary ruling classes.

EDIT: I hope you see this is intended to help you refine your message, avoiding points where the other side can attack it. Without each others' comments, we would all be just tinfoil hatters.

Peace.

[whatever4]

31. Well yes, and I don't disagree

I rather thought the tone of the picture, kids with a nazi salute, went along quite well with the original post about the "Freedom March".

I, ah, didn't really say much about it myself otherwise, though I'm sure I could muster an argument about public school (and started to), school in general, and other similar topics, but why bother; it wasn't why I posted that pic.

Seemed every bit as sarcastic, to me anyway, as the original post, as reality verses the public image, but it missed the point somehow.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. Sorry. I missed the tone.

I'm home sick today and not at the top of my game.:hi:

[whatever4]

43. Oh, just to get back to this

Thanks for that, it was nice of you to say. Hope you're feeling better :)

[MADem]

38. And the pledge has gotten worse over the years

I pledge allegiance to the flag, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Then they added UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, because they were afraid all of those dirty Irish children would be thinking of the Irish flag, and those swarthy sneaky Eye-talian children would be thinking of the tricolore, and those foreign Polish kids the Polish flag...

And then, during the Commie era, they added the UNDER GOD. When are they gonna add, OR ELSE!!!?

It went from a not-too-complicated sentence to the opening paragraph of WAR AND PEACE...

I never liked it either, and the forced nature of it doesn't really make it a pledge, it's more like being extorted, or compelled in a reeducation camp. Which isn't what we as a nation are all about....ideally, anyway.

[DBoon]

8. There was a companion march on the outher side of the continent

[leveymg]

9. It was about 1/30th this size: maybe 3500 - 7000 marchers

And it wasn't nearly as stylish. The music was even worse.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

10. no_to_war_economy

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ultraist]

11. LOL!

:rofl:

[CrackpotAmerica]

12. Did you see these two here?

Kicked and nominated!

[leveymg]

22. This PhotoShop stuff is getting eerily realistic.

Heil Burt!

[mshasta]

40. lol

No words for it

[stevedeshazer]

13. lol!! n/t

[LynneSin]

17. Here's a picture I got from the event

[mzteris]

18. Obviously fake

There weren't NEAR that many people there!!

[MarkTwain]

21. Christ. Make it Black and White....

... and substitute the flags and you could not differentiate it from Berlin in the late thirties.

Damn. The fact that this is Washington is heartbreaking.

Fascists are always so trite and overt in their symbolism; the lack of nuance makes them universally obvious.

[Zuni]

29. dude, that is a photoshop

it is Berlin in the 1930s, with US flags photoshopped in.

[Roy]

23. Take away the paid and coerced. Then how many?

nt

[powergirl]

28. I never heard anything about the state sponsored pentagon fun party?

Did the media cover it? Surely FOX did. I haven't heard anything. Let me know if anyone commented on the glorious show of support to McDoofus in Chief. Thanks.:hippie:

[Gregorian]

32. A few of us made it in.

And what a corporate nightmare it was.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

36. As they say in Freeperville: EAGLES UP!!!!!

[bvar22]

37. I LOVE a parade!

Joyful civilians join in thanking bush* and the Republican party
for "Saving our Freedoms" after 9-11.

[seemslikeadream]

39. Did you stay for the closing speech?

"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer, ein Volk"

One People, one Empire, one Leader, one People

One destiny for a thousand years.



One Hope, One people, One country, One leader.
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny.

Stand up be brave my people we're here to stay, for a thousand years.
An oath you've spoken, can never be broken, you'll pay, in blood and tears
Never tire, never doubt, never falter, never slacken, Just believe in me.
Stand up, shout loud, stand proud, in what we will we will achieve.

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader will set you free
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny for a thousand years

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk.

It's not enough just to say you love your country, its not enough.
It's not enough to get down on your knees and pray, it's just not enough.

The price is high, the price you have to pay is your freedom, surrender yourselves.
Mothers send me your blue-eyed blonde-haired boys and let me see them, blue-eyed blonde-haired boys.

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader will set you free.
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny for a thousand years.

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk.

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader will set you free
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny for a thousand years.

[melody]

41. now I think we ought to make it perfectly clear that this IS fake ;-)

Seriously, this gets laugh of the day. Great work.