I'm over 9/11.

[BurtWorm]

Not to be coldhearted, but I think Katrina blows 9/11 out of the water, so to speak.

I was not a fan of sacralizing 9/11 to begin with, but it's very difficult to work up the level of gravity every year, especially when our own government, even in light of 9/11, allowed many thousands to die four years later.

Furthermore, the Republicans want to own 9/11. It's like an ice cream cone with their tongue marks and spit all over it.

Finally, I think the reading of names ceremony should be private. I certainly don't need to watch it again. The first two times were far more than enough.

[halobeam]

1. I lost people in 9/11... glad you are over it but I'm not.

I certainly do need to watch the readings of the names ceremony. You stated your feelings and I'm stating mine, that's all.

[jsamuel]

2. I suppose that is natural for both of you

[BurtWorm]

3. That's why I say it should be a private ceremony.

[phylny]

52. I find my self agreeing with you.

I almost lost a sibling that morning. Our principal's son was killed at the WTC, and I knew of so many families in the D.C. area at the time who were affected as well. Our whole school district was affected by the Pentagon - the school I worked for is a few miles from Dulles, and there are so many government workers who lived close by.

Having said that, I purposely did not watch anything on 9/11 yesterday. Here in the NY area, it was in the papers and on television. The attacks were a despicable act of violence, terrifying, and awful. I send condolences and my heartfelt sadness out to all who were affected by it. But as it's been pointed out here, people die and are killed every day, and most don't get nearly the attention that the poor victims and their families got who were killed on 9/11. I think it's time to turn away from mass public mourning and ceremonies, and turn our attention and anger into helping the people who are alive today.

So many people were adversely affected by Katrina, and had to suffer for days on end with no food, no water, no access to the outside world, in a sometimes violent and frightening place. Parents are still looking for children, babies drowned. Old people were left to die. Let's focus on them for a while, and as I said, turn toward the future to make this country better for EVERYONE.

[BurtWorm]

54. Not that we should forget 9/11.

But if we can't deal with it honestly, then let's set it aside until we can (i.e., until after the Bushists have their asses kicked into the oblivion they came from and to where they are destined to return).

[magnolia]

23. I sympathize with your loss.

Do you understand that people lose loved ones everyday. Whether it is through accidents, disease or whatever, their loss is as painful as yours. Most people don't get to have their loved ones' name read at a cermony on national TV or have their loved one honored. So please don't complain if attention toward your loved one is waning. Most people don't get any attention...they mourn their loss in silence, alone.

I can understand if you are not ready to separate your personal loss from the event itself but the country is ready to do this and need to do this. In our name, our government has attack a country that was not responsible for your loss and as a result we have killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis. Their pain and grief over the loss of their loved one is as real as yours.

[xultar]

56. I'm over it cuz Bush fucked it up by going to war with Iraq.

[shaniqua6392]

4. I completely agree!!

And I do not think it is cold hearted at all. I feel like every year they show us a funeral for 3,000 people which lasts a whole day. I can not watch it. I feel like an intruder on their pain. And I also know they are just using it to connect 9-11 and the occupation of Iraq. Sickening.

[trotsky]

5. The memory of the people who died on 9/11

would be far better served by opposing the current criminals in charge than allowing them to CONTINUE to use those corpses as political props.

As you say, the ceremony should be private.

[MN ChimpH8R]

15. Amen!

Watching some of the memorial programs yesterday got me thinking. I wound up furious, because all of these people were killed because ChimpCo simply LIHOP.

Three thousand ordinary men and women died because it all served the PNAC plan. After all, it was PNAC that openly said that their agenda would stand no chance of implementation unless there was "another Pearl Harbor." Well, they got their Pearl Harbor.

ChimpCo HAD to have a 9/11 to provide the cover and justification for the things they have done, and they stood idly by, looking in the other direction while it happened. The best way possible to honor the loss of those three thousand people is to do what can be done to rid this country of the evil bastards who let it happen, at least until it comes proof that nothing of the sort can be done. Then it is time to move on, honor the loss, but save ourselves, even if that means bailing for Canada or New Zealand.

[smirkymonkey]

44. Hear, hear.

[Roland99]

6. I feel saddened thinking of the attacks but this admin has tainted it.

[BurtWorm]

8. I can't stand the taint.

To me 9/11 has always meant "failure." And it's always been sold as "sacred." I can't stomach the phony sacrality designed to masque the failure.

[wtmusic]

33. yes

by committing an even bigger crime in its name. That wound to our nation is deeper and will last far longer.

[William769]

7. The Government was not hurt by 9/11 regular citizens were.

You don't want to watch it fine then don't. But there are many many people that do (me included).

[SemperEadem]

9. I grieve the loss of innocent human life that took place`

yet I'm sick of having my emotions pimped to justify a lie-based war and the offensivness of the thugs' supposedly righteous indignation. I refuse to watch any of it on television, it's so disingenuous to me.

Meanwhile, Osama's still alive and free and no one gives a damn. I wonder if his check from * cashed?

[Ilsa]

19. Thank you for your comments. I sometimes feel

the same way. I tend to avoid all of these sad memorials when I can. My life has enough grief in it, with the living and the dead, and I don't need Bush trying make me cry and get depressed again over something he has no intention of remedying. I feel so badly for everyone that suffered and is still suffering. I'm just tired of us having gone from a cheerful nation to a fearful and depressed one with PTSD.

[soleft]

10. Probably a better way to express your sentiments

I have a friend who still has PTSD from losing her entire department - she was late to work that day, which is why she's still alive.

I'm actually worried Katrina is making her relieve a lot of the trauma in the way the events are similar -

I don't think your opinion is cold, but your subject line leaves me feeling like it is.

[BurtWorm]

37. Well, it certainly attracted the attention of some wingnuts.

One of whom had this to say to me:

You're over it because you'd like to pretend it never happened. 9-11 was the biggest justification for the Iraq war, and the fight on terror in general.

As though 9/11 being "justification" for the war in Iraq is a good thing?! Even though Iraq and 9/11 have NOTHING to do with each other!


You still live in a fantasy world where Islam is the religion of peace and Christians are the only harmful people.


Sure. :eyes:


You are a sick monster, and a true enemy of the United States. What part of NEVER FORGET don't you understand? If everyone just got 'over it,' we would f***d over so bad by the terrorists, it would make 9-11 and Katrina seem like minor car accidents. But since you obviously want Islam to rule the world, I guess this is what you'd like to see.


What I should have said is "I'm over the phony public ceremony of 9/11." I am not actually over the event itself. I'm not over 9/11/01, in other words. But if 9/11 becomes stuck in for all eternity in the first Bush term, then I don't see how the nation--or this city--will ever heal from it.

[BIG Sean]

11. I am far from over it!

I am in New York

I was in the WTC 15 minutes before the first plane hit.

I lost friends that day.

My family didn't know where I was for hours.

Glad you are over it though.

[BurtWorm]

12. I was in NYC that day as well.

And I'm still here. I did not lose friends, though I know many who were in the neighborhood and who were traumatized by it, and some who did lose family and friends. I can understand why they may not be over it.

I am not over the theft of 9.11 by the Republican Party. I'll never get over that.

[longship]

13. I've been over 9/11 for three years, at least.

What spoiled it for me was Chimpy's shallow, callous exploitation of the disaster. 9/11 has been a political football exploited by the Repugs almost from day one.

[Not Me]

14. I imagine those who lost family and friends to Pearl Harbor

will take the pain to their graves. I don't think there was any disrespect meant by the original post...but it begs the question: at what point, for most Americans, will the grief of 9/11 subside?

[snappyturtle]

18. If only....

we could forget! I lost no one in 9/11 but I can't help wondering why the families and friends who did, obviously, aren't feeling any type of closure? I don't know how rehashing that horrific day helps them but I give them credit for keeping it in the news---no small feat!

[BurtWorm]

22. I think they (and we) deserve the truth about 9/11.

What I really can't tolerate is the empty ceremonializing of it.

[snappyturtle]

55. I totally agree....

we need the truth and we need the empty ceremonializing to keep it in the forefront....but I don't think the victim's families think it's an empty ceremony....(does that make any sense?) :confused:

[slackmaster]

16. I'm not over it and probably never will be

:nuke:

[onecent]

17. I'm glad someone said this. I have been feeling the same way

but thinking that I should be ashamed for thinking such thoughts.

9/11 created a Bush on a pedestal type of creature and he has made me puke ever since he held that megaphone.

[Brightmore]

20. It's not a contest you know

Doesn't really matter if Katrina killed more people than 9/11.

I don't know how anyone can be "over" 9/11. It's not about politics. I'm not going to let Bush and the Republicans steal 9/11 anymore than I would let them steal the flag.

[BurtWorm]

25. It's not about the numbers who died, I agree.

It's about the fact that they died.

Here's truth #1 about 9/11: US foreign policy in the Middle East caused it.

This is a truth, so elemental to that day, that is forbidden to be even mentioned in polite society in the US. But how is the nation ever going to heal from the day if it doesn't confront the root cause of the day?

[Brightmore]

28. I don't blame America for 9/11

Saying our foreign policy caused it is somewhat excusing the terrorists who did. It's saying that they had a legitimate reason to do what they did.

[MN ChimpH8R]

29. Not really

UBL was our (read Reagan's and Bush I's) boy in Afghanistan when the Big Bad Rooskies were trying to take over that godforsaken place. We bankrolled UBL, encouraged and enabled him. bin Ladin bears a "Made in the USA" sticker the size of a billboard.

[Brightmore]

30. I agree with that

But I don't agree that we deserved 9/11 because our support of Israel and other Middle Eastern foreign policies.

[BurtWorm]

32. Who said we "deserved" 9/11?

I didn't. I wish it had never happened. Then we wouldn't be stuck in this phony time warp every year.

[BurtWorm]

31. It's more complicated than that.

US dollars trained the mujahedeen to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, and the mujahedeen turned around and joined a jihad against the US. US dollars prop up repressive regimes Islamists detest. These are the sorts of policies that led to 9/11. Without these policies, no 9/11. This doesn't excuse al Qaeda for being coldblooded enough to murder civilians to retaliate against the US government. I have no illusions about what pieces of shit the fanatics were to carry out the plan. (I have a very low opinion of virtually ALL religious fanatics.) But the piece of the puzzle the US has been incapable of dealing with is the government's responsibility for 9.11.

One reason I tolerate the day less and less is that the sacralizing of it represents the institutionalization of the taboo against understanding US responsibility for the day.

[calico1]

21. While I agree that bush and his cronies have

used 9/11 shamelessly, let's not forget that there were real victims from 9/11. That, bush did not make up. The politicizin of 9/11 is disgraceful but it does not change the fact that it was a real tragedy. I do not seek to relive it everyday, and I am a native New Yorker. But its not "nothing" to me.

[txaslftist]

24. I'm not over it, but I understand how you feel.

I wore a red-white and blue ribbon that I made myself for days afterward, thinking that in this small way I was showing that the US was united behind those who had suffered. I watched in dismay as the president made 9-11 a Republican touchstone, instead of the Republican failure to act that it actually was.

I watched in dismay as the Republicans took 9-11 and made of it a justification for stripping Americans of their civil rights (The Patriot Act), for starting an unjust war, and for beginning a crusade.

9-11, and people's reaction to it, have become a thing that divides us instead of uniting us.

Osama has achieved all he set out to do on 9-11 and he remains free, rich and more powerful than he was before 9-11.

I won't be over it until we elect someone with the willingness to do what it takes to catch that murderous bastard.

[BurtWorm]

26. It won't be over until Americans grow up enough to admit their govt.

has some responsibility for what happened that day.

[Bridget Burke]

27. I have been "over" the use of 9/11 by Bush & Co for a long time.

I can fully understand the grief of those who lost people that day. I only visited NYC once, but the shock of the attack felt like a body blow.

But Bush & his minions should have been put in prison for their activities (& inactivities) before 9/11 & on that date. And they continue to use the tragedy obscenely for political gain.

[stevietheman]

34. I'm not. We need "Independent Commission II" to answer remaining...

questions, of which there are *many*.

[BurtWorm]

35. That I could get behind.

But only if it's an honest and independent commission, and not a phony self-consciously "bipartisan" one.

[bloom]

36. There is that aspect of using 9/11

for political gain - to rally people around America as a reason to kill people - that I refuse to have anything to do with. In light of the NOLA disgrace - I don't see how anyone can be proud of America. Anyone who is still trying to use 9/11 for that purpose should just forget about it.

[BurtWorm]

38. Attempts to use 9/11 yesterday struck me as such a pathetic attempt

to change the subject of Republican FAILURES since 9/11. That's how they are always going to use the date. They'll always be saying "Never forget"--which really means "Don't think."

[CatWoman]

39. It's not 9/11 that I'm "so over"

it's the blatant and constant attempts of the GOP to politicize it.

That is so September 10th.

[BurtWorm]

40. You're right. Point well taken.

:hi:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

48. I agree, and I would add

that what i'm "so over", is the Democrats' unwillingness/inability/disinterest in calling the GOP out when the GOP is politicing 9/11.

The GOP's politization of 9/11 is just begging for a "have you no sense of decency" moment.

[Jersey Devil]

41. I was disgusted how 9/11 was politicized yesterday at Giants Stadium

OK, they marched out a few hundred NYC fire & police with a huge flag and naturally everyone cheered. It was a warm moment. Then it went downhill from there imo, introducing the future chairman of the joint chiefs, the West Point Band with a singer to Lee Greenwood's "Proud to Be an American", some guy saying a prayer for almost 5 minutes that was much more about 'fighting terror in Iraq and Afghanistan', introduced pilots who bombed Iraq who did a flyover before the game in fighter jets. All the time I am thinking, "Hey, I am in a blue state and they have 78,000 people cheering "USA, USA" to this stuff - imagine how it must work in a red state?"

The topper was the Giants' coach saying there is no way his boys would have lost one "in this city (which actually is in NJ) on this day." Sure, they won it for the Gipper.

[BurtWorm]

42. That shit I hate.

That's the shit I'm talking about. I'm talking about photo ops of Bush with NYC fire fighters in NOLA yesterday. :puke:

When the Bushists have their asses kicked out of office for their utter indifference to their jobs, then I might be interested in 9/11 ceremonies again. Bush and the PNACers are too much wrapped up in it for me.

[jokerman93]

43. Let them own 9/11 and their glory war

9/11 is old news. Someone tell the Republicans, and this admin, that we're in the Post-Katrina world now. Everything has changed. The curtain has been pulled back on America's soul and on the Neocon's sham government. Tell them to get ready for far-reaching social and cultural transformation. Tell them their world view will be irrelevant soon too. Their Neocon ideology and its christ-fascist ancillaries and enablers have lost claim to legitimacy.

Someone just tell Bushco to get ready. The adults are coming back now, and we're pissed...

:rant:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

50. from your lips to God's ears, my friend

:yourock:

[Politicub]

45. Thank you for your post

You were brave to voice something that controversial.

I'm feeling much the same way. When I logged on to the Internet yesterday, the first news item on my homepage was about the siblings reading the names of the 9/11 dead. It was very, very sad, and my heart goes out to those who lost friends and family that day.

But, the GOP has corrupted the symbolism of 9/11 beyond repair. It's no longer about those poor folks who didn't escape the towers in time, or the fireman who gave their lives to save others. No, today it's about the Iraq war. Iraq had zero, zilch, nada to do with 9/11, but the GOP successfully linked these two things in a broad number of people's minds. I'm sure Rove, Hughes et al were high fiving each other when they realized that their mission had been accomplished.

I have to wonder if the GOP, in addition to using 9/11 as justification for the PNAC agenda, is trying to stir up divisions using the day? I guess the lesson is this -- get some B-list singer to write a catchy country tune, snarl and sneer as your talk about Ah-rabs, and accentuate your cock in a flight suit, and you can have the idiot right wing in America eating from your palm.

As for me, I'm not finished mourning over the the selection of George Bush. Something that wicked had to throw off the delicate balance of things. IMHO, The attacks on 9/11 were a culmination of stealing the election, GOP complacency about our safety and the willingness of the far right to use a national disaster for political gain.

I refuse to celebrate the GOP's failure in protecting my country.

[BurtWorm]

49. Thank you for YOUR post!

I'm reading some right wing reactions to this thread and I'm struck, not only by their rabid emotion, but by their inability to see the irony in a common response: "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it." This, they somehow think, is appropos to me but not to their own dumb Hesitant Bush, who went through Katrina in EXACTLY the same kind of sleepwalk he went through 9/11/01, despite four years of emptily boasting that he was the National Security "president."

[RedCloud]

46. WWII at 9/11 pace would take over 20,000 days to finish.

If the native americans and Africans each experienced a death rate from european expansion at the rate of 1 9/11 per year, it would take 33,000 years to reach the death toll.

We have seen a lot of death in recent times. I point out my above numbers so that we remember to never go to war blindly or hate those who are different from us.

For those who lost friends or family members, you have my deepest sympathies. Did any of you have to sign a promise not to sue form from our government before getting any financial relief? That to me is a glaring mistake that needs to be told. No one authorized our government to protect its derriere with the donations that were being amassed. So, why did they?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

51. because protecting its derriere

is the only thing it does well.

[patrice]

47. Bush knew the WTC was being attacked and HE DID NOTHING!

How much more obvious does it have to be?

[graphixtech]

53. from 911Truth.org - "It’s Not JUST New Orleans..."

It’s Not Just New Orleans That Needs Rebuilding
By Bryan Sacks
(more)
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050904221329705

So now, horribly, we know what it takes to stir disgust and outrage directed at the federal government, in the hearts of the corporate press corps. It takes a catastrophe of biblical proportions unfolding right before their eyes, right here in America, right in front of their cameras and camera crews, amid the stench of rotting corpses and a heaving mass of literally thousands of sick and dying.

Katrina’s aftermath has exposed the ‘most powerful country in the world’ as literally powerless to address the most basic needs of the most highly visible suffering people on the planet. This monstrous failure could literally be paradigm-shifting in its effect on the public consciousness.

(excerpt)
While the scope of the tragedy in New Orleans grows, its immediacy will make comparisons to past government-sponsored failures seem inappropriate, and that's understandable. But when enough time has passed, perhaps this colossal failure will enable the public to entertain the similarities between the Administration's failure to respond to Katrina, and its orchestrated failure, represented by the omissions and distortions of the 9/11 Commission Report-- to answer the questions gnawing at victims' family members and millions of other Americans for years now about the true scope of the attacks. The victims of Katrina deserved better, and likely thousands have died because of a cataclysmic failure to respond in time. There should be a full investigation and a complete accounting of the tragedy with consequences for failure and malfeasance. To our great detriment, that is exactly what has thus far been denied all citizens regarding the aftermath of September 11.

(excerpt)
The horror of Katrina's aftermath, even more than 9/11, may prove to be a monumental political turning point. We must work to ensure that, unlike with 9/11, it's a turn for the better. Getting the truth out, both about the scale and disproportionate impact of this tragedy as well as the facts about 9/11 cover-up, has never been more important. The dead and dying in the South, and the dead in New York demand it.


http://www.911truth.org/index.php