How many lives were saved by Superdome and Convention Center ?

[kentuck]

Even though the conditions were horrendous, where would these people have gone if they had not gone to these two places? How many would have stayed in their homes and how many would have died? It appears to me, in looking back, that the part of the evacuation plan to put people in the Superdome and Convention Center was mostly successful, considering the alternatives. And was that part of FEMA plan or was that a local plan?

[zann725]

1. Since we DON'T know either the TRUE 'numbers'' of dead IN the Superdome

OR those who remained outside the Dome...it's difficult to say what was a "better" idea. Given that this Admin. is NOT particularly We-The-People oriented, nor do they have a good track record for 'good' or successful ideas/plans...I have my doubts as to putting people in the Dome. Maybe we should ask those who were held hostage there without food or water or toilets for over a week?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. I would like those statistics, too.

I have heard that many died in "capitvity" and I have heard that none did.

[Skwmom]

2. Why no food, water or adequate police protection

at the Superdome and Convention Center? I've already heard the "we didn't supply food and water because we wanted to discourage people from going there." This begs the question - where else did they expect these people to go?

Good luck on trying to portray the Superdome and Convention Center as "mostly successful, considering the alternatives."

[kentuck]

4. OK, we'll say that none of the thousands would have gone to the Superdome

or the Convention Center? Do you think they would have been better off?

[Skwmom]

12. So that makes the Superdome and Convention Center a great success story?

Give me a break. I guess the poor should just be "grateful" they had any shelter at all.

[kentuck]

14. Perhaps more of a great "survival" story...

Should the poor be "grateful" they are alive rather than dead? I don't know...The conditions were horrendous but most survived. They may not have survived without the Superdome or Convention Center...

[stray cat]

5. They needed more supplies and police no doubt

However, what if the people would have had absolutely no place to go other than there houses to ride out the storm?

[Roland99]

9. Mayor Nagin, on MTP, said food/water *was* at the Superdome.

There are reports of those 7 trailers of MREs and some water, as well.

However, it was planned to support people for just a day or two and he expected "the cavalry" to arrive within that timeframe.


"the cavalry" never arrived.

[Skwmom]

10. I heard Nagin on TV before Katrina hit telling people there would be NO

food or water at the superdome, they would need to bring their own. He talked about alternative sites but when asked what those sites would be he didn't want to disclose them.

[kentuck]

13. I think the people were told to bring 24-48 hours suppply of food ....

and water. I believe I heard that from the Mayor.

[Roland99]

15. Yeah...he said that on Meet The Press but also said they did have some

already there.

[stray cat]

3. Local plan to evacuate people in place

They bused people from pick up sites all over the city to what they felt would be the safest location. They calculated that if they could keep people safe during and right after the hurricane. The federal government would come and help within 48-72 hours with evacuations and resupplies.

[FloridaPat]

6. It was a great success until the levees broke. It might have stayed

that way if they could have gotten food and water and some troops and lights in there. Starving and dying people get very fiesty.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. The internal evacuation was local. The "Hurricane Pam" scenario

proved to them that the city could not be properly evacuated in time, so the Superdome was a stopgap -- presumably, they thought the people would be there for no more than 12 hours after the storm ended, once FEMA got there to transport people out.

And if the government had gotten in there within even 24 hours, 90% of the post-storm horrors would have never happened.

[marions ghost]

17. right...they were abandoned

The question is: How many were lost and how many were traumatized for the rest of their lives by such a gross "miscalculation?" And how many people around the country were shocked and appalled by the spectacle of people dying in real time because the Emergency Response System failed or was thwarted?

No way to put a positive spin on what happened at those two places. It was a crime against humanity.

[kentuck]

18. Yes, it was terrible....

Could it have been worse?

[marions ghost]

21. what's your point here?

in trying to diffuse the outrage about the way these people were treated, are you saying they should be thankful? I mean, what IS your point?

[kentuck]

23. And what is your point ??

I'm saying it could have been much worse with the number of deaths if not for the Superdome and Convention Center...I'm not saying it was a picnic. It was horrible.

[marions ghost]

24. and so you want

people around here to get into debating relative risks with you concerning this grotesque tragedy? What is accomplished by that?

You can go ahead and be thankful more didn't die, kentuck. Maybe that helps you to rationalize this crime. Personally I'm going to question why more didn't LIVE (or get out of it with their sanity).

As for those who chose to stay and ended up on the rooftops, I'm questioning why more of them weren't rescued either. Why was there NO comprehensive plan to deal with the scanario of the levees breaking?

[kentuck]

25. I'm not trying to "debate" anything...

I was simply making a statement. I agree it was a grotesque tragedy. You can rationalize it any way you wish. Perhaps we would have all been better off if there had been no Superdome or Convention Center? That was the point being made. Not whether or not we should dismiss the incompetence...

[marions ghost]

26. "we would have all been better off

if there had been no Superdome or Convention Center." (!?!)

And how would we have been better off? I guess we would have had less people to watch suffer?

Now you've really got me wondering what it is you're getting at?

[marions ghost]

22. sorry dupe

[RagingInMiami]

11. I would imagine the odds of them getting raped or murdered

Would have been reduced if they had stayed home.

[txindy]

20. Very true, but odds of drowning or dying slowly of dehydration increased

In fact, it probably increased exponentially considering that their homes were flooded.

I don't know what the answer is, but those shelters kept many of them alive. With the benefit of hindsight, I probably would've taken my chances at home, provided I had many containers of fresh water available in my attic. But that's with hindsight.

[Nye Bevan]

16. Going to the Superdome was better than dying...

HOWEVER the conditions were absolutely horrendous, by all accounts.

Read this account from some of the British tourists:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4214746.stm

Jamie Trout, 22, of Sunderland, told BBC News the five "horrific" days he and his two female friends had spent in the Superdome, before being freed by the US National Guard, had been "like something out of Lord of the Flies".

"It was very dangerous - rioting, looting of vending machines, racial abuse, absolutely terrible sanitary conditions."

They had been "intimidated by large groups of men" and, Mr Trout added, he had feared he would be killed.


This was an absolute disgrace. There should have been National Guardsmen ALL OVER the Superdome to maintain order (but instead they were in Iraq). There was plenty of time to set up a water tanker, porta potties, etc. but none of this was done.

[MsUnderstood]

19. The question is not how many lives were saved

The solution of providing EMERGENCY SHELTER at this locations was a good idea and it worked to provide EMERGENCY SHELTER.

The problem was the people were told to bring 3 days of food and water and then nobody brought the crucial items to these people for continued survial: security, water, food, medical aid.

People were deficating, urinating, starving, dehydrating and nothing was done by the federal government to come in and help. Local authorities forced people back into the chaos of these shelters. The national gaurd was held back. The US Military was held back. Volunteers with food and water were turned away.

It was not a problem to move these people to secure shelters, it was a problem to put them there and NOT RESPOND to their needs, then say (as Brown did on national TV) "We didn't know anyone was there."

The logic of your statement is akin to when the republicans take our questions of what was Bush doing during and after the crisis to say "You can't blame Bush for a hurricane!"

I blame Mother Nature for the hurricane, and I blame Bush for the disaster afterwards. I commend the mayor for finding shelter for the citizens, and I blame the federal government for not coming in to rescue those citizens as needed.