So, why don't we just leave?

[Cleita]

Really, what if the blue states decide to leave the union? What if we stop sending the feds tax money and recall our politicians and tell them they are no longer needed in Washington? What if we take over the military bases and naval bases on the coasts of the blue states? What if we sieze all federal land and assets in our states?

Really, what can they do? They can't even send the military after us because they are in Iraq.

Okay, now argue with me as to why this is a stupid idea?

[hiley]

1. hello I live in Arkansas

and can not afford to move..
This is not a good idea, okay?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

4. That's my argument with the idea

Just replace Arkansas with Texas. :hi:

[hiley]

7. sure all of us in the so called red states

are not red!
right?
Besides some states were really purple...

[Cleita]

11. What if we take up a fund to bring blue people to the blue states?

Remember we are liberals. We look after our fellow man. You could apply for amnesty.

[hiley]

19. I could go for that in

a New York minute..

[Lone_Star_Dem]

48. Cleita, I would be so gone from here...

We could try and relocate repug voters to red states in a housing exchange. A last chance for them to be with their own kind before they are cut off for good. :D

Now, about the job relocation program...

edit: typo.

[Cleita]

49. All kinds of good things could be possible, but first we have to

cut off the money and power spigots that lead directly to Washington.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Because it's illegal to secede. Go figure, eh?

------------------------------------------------------
URGENT yet easy! Hold the government accountable for Katrina's aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4736062

[Cleita]

14. Yes, but we can't do this anymore.

Ethically, we are propping up a criminal state by allowing them to use our system and laws against us for their own nefarious purposes.

[Singular73]

3. Because Sometimes, you have to STAND AND FIGHT

Liberals biggest flaw.

[rwheeler31]

10. Make them go, they have stolen enough to buy a few islands.

I rather like it here we could be a great and good country again.

[Cleita]

12. Yes, but they are so strong now and have us under their heel.

If we weaken that hold and eventually starve them out, then we can unite again.

[Dora]

5. Blue states are expensive to live in and we're all mostly broke. n/t

[Cleita]

9. True, but you do make more money to make up for it.

Once we ship the tories to the red states, then we can enact some good social laws that take care of everybody.

[MojoXN]

27. Word.

[PowerToThePeople]

6. Yup, we actually have the votes, just need diebold out... n/t

[hiley]

8. so

true!

[CountAllVotes]

26. Amen!

The real culprit behind the iron curtain are these damn Diebold machines. Be rid of them NOW. If we don't manage to get rid of them, I fear we are forever destined to a vote that no longer counts!

CountAllVotes !!!

:kick:

[txindy]

13. For the sake of argument, let's say that happens.

Now what? Do the repub voters in the blue country have to leave? If they don't and, somehow, someday, they gain the majority in the new gov't., then what? If the blue country finds itself producing little repubs (happens to most families, for some odd reason), what then? Do they have to leave when they're grown? :shrug:

Convince me. Right now, it sounds as if a division would just create the same problems in smaller geographical areas.

[Cleita]

16. You need an opposition or we become them, having too much

power. I think eventually we would make our Constitutions more airtight to control any possible abuses to the system.

[txindy]

21. I agree about needing an opposition.

That's my point, though. I think we'd just end up creating the same problems on a smaller scale. Although,...the idea does appeal. I'm willing to see how the country goes in the 2006 elections - if the Diebold factor can be reduced/eliminated - before deciding whether this country as a whole can be saved.

Right now, though, as others have also posted, I see far more purple than red or blue.

[tularetom]

15. Mental masturbation

This is a fun topic to fantasize about. I've done it for years and it would be amusing as hell to see the reaction of those in the "heartland" if it were ever seriously contemplated. But can you really imagine any of our current crop of democartatic "leaders" having the cojones to broach the subject? Maybe Boxer, Conyers but I can't imagine anyone else speaking up.

[mmonk]

17. If we are heading towards

this fundamentalist states rights model with no Bill of Rights, I actually hope that the the country can break up into smaller countries, maybe with some sort of defense compact. That is my hope because I don't want to live in the America they are talking about us becoming.

[xyzpdq_us]

18. Nice try, but what are you going to use...

More of us need to own and be proficient in the use of firearms if something like this were to ever happen. This may be a news flash to you, but the majority of all Nat'l Guard troops are at home, or in their home states. I heard on some of the news coverage that the Fed Gov't is required to leave at least 50% of the Guard at home. LA had something like 60%, but the troops going to Iraq took all the good Communications gear, so it made coordinating efforts after the storm and flood very difficult. Now if things heat up with Iran AND N. Korea...then there might be some opportunity, hehehe.

How about this...why don't more of you Blue Staters move to the Red States? We can take over the gov't without having to use violence...Kinda like the way that is described in the Constitution.

[mmonk]

20. Voting isn't going to matter that much soon

once they control the laws of the land. It wouldn't matter what you legislate, it can be struck down by the courts. And there will be no equal protection under the law for at least a generation.

[xyzpdq_us]

23. assuming there ever is a vote for SC justices

}(

[MojoXN]

30. "Voting isn't going to matter that much soon"

Where the fuck have you been for the past two or three elections?

Voting HASN'T mattered since 2000. If you want to change things, violence is quickly becoming your only recourse. You can't influence the vote at the ballot box or the tabulation station, even en masse. The only course of action that is effectual is violent revolution. Intellectually, of course. I would NEVER advocate such a thing/

MojoXN

[mmonk]

47. I was thinking in reference

to your idea of migration of Blue Staters to Red States. If the laws are controlled by them, who is where and how one votes is mute. That is unless representatives impeach the court members.

[mmonk]

65. excuse me

I meant the idea of migration mentioned in post 18.

[Cleita]

24. Okay I don't know much about the military, but there were

rumors that there was near mutiny in Iraq from the hurricane states because they felt they should have been at home. Whose to say the NG aren't going to be loyal to their states? I'm thinking they are mostly really pissed right now.

[xyzpdq_us]

29. Think back 145 years

Most people felt allegiance to their state before their Country. Same is true for a lot of people today because in general it is where your family and friends are. Can't imagine how I would have felt if my wife, 3 month old baby and 3 year old boy got stuck in the Superdome while I'm 10,000 miles away.

Nobody will protect your family the way you will.

[INdemo]

22. What Happens

Then what would happen to us poor Democrats that live in a Red State?

[xyzpdq_us]

25. too cold in the Blue states

Must be why they are Blue. Wait a minute, Hawaii and California...hmmmm. How much would it drive a U-Haul to Honolulu?

[Cleita]

28. We will offer you amnesty, however, I don't think it will be that

bad because once you start cutting off the arms and legs of BushCo, they won't be as strong. I would also like a little state sovereignity right now anyway to reel in the corporations that got us here to begin with, like keeping the asses out that refuse to incorporate in each state and keep jobs here and not overseas and well you get the idea.

[Blue_In_AK]

31. I have a better idea...

Why don't some of you people in the very, very blue states (you know who you are) move out to some of the red states and turn them Democratic. That makes more sense to me. For instance, Alaska is beautiful, we have been a Democratic state at different times, and we could use a few more of you up here to help swing us back. Come on, what do you say?

[xyzpdq_us]

34. That's what I am talking about

NY, CA, MA, CT, IL you have way too many liberal thinkers. Send 'em down here to the Sunny South. All we have to do is take one Southern State to win a Presidential Election. Gore couldn't even take his home state or Arkansas. Pitiful!!!

Get your resume polished up and start looking.

[Kazak]

39. Question...

Can you register to vote as soon as you establish an address, or is there a waiting period in most states?

[xyzpdq_us]

44. I presume as soon as you become a resident

and permanently relocate you can vote. There was a lady ahead of me at the polls the last time who still had an out of state license. They wouldn't let her use that, but she was able to use a phone bill, power bill, etc. plus her social security card to prove who she was. She was already registered.

Remember voting in two states or jurisdictions is a felony. There were some snow birds who got caught during the last election voting in their home state plus Florida. Not sure what happened to them.

[Kazak]

62. So then, theoretically...

A person could move to a state for, say, two weeks, and legally place a vote for president in that state, while there? :shrug:

[Cleita]

35. That would have been okay four years ago. We don't have time.

eom

[xyzpdq_us]

36. 2 years will pass

and we'll be right in the middle of another election, and we will all be sitting around our keyboards complaining. Look at the past for lessons learned, look to the future and figure out how you can make a difference.

[Kazak]

37. Or,...

what if all the blues in the red states move out to purple states like Ohio, New Mexico, Florida, etc...

I seriously considered doing this after the last election. Alas...too lazy.

[xyzpdq_us]

40. Florida...hmmm

Except for the Hurricanes and that it is the lighning captal of the world, it certainly sounds appealing. Nice sunny beaches...cold drink in my hand...looking at the beauty of God's creations...SPLASH...wife pours her drink on me. Hmmm, back to reality.

I think that's a great idea. I'm in a Red state, so I'm staying put, but I'm pro-creating so in 15 years and 17 3/4 years, my kids will be old enough to vote!

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

32. Your idea is NOT...

...stupid. Nonviolent revolution built around massive noncooperation with authority can be very effective. The hitch is getting sufficient numbers to go along and stick with it. It requires courage and real sacrifice by many, many people. We need more threads floating ideas like this that we can work on and refine together.

http://www.karlandkinggeorge.com/Like_Rays_of_Hope.html

[Kazak]

33. Okay, wait...I'm coming!!

Ack...don't leave me!!! :o

[Cleita]

38. We are supporting a rogue regime that is committing

atrocities in our name. I fear the normal ways of taking our country back have been closed to us. I thought that maybe if we weaken the beast by starving it state by state, then we might be able to fight and save what is left of it.

[xyzpdq_us]

41. who's supporting them?

Does toleration and disgust = support?

[Cleita]

43. Your taxes and those of your children and grandchildren are

supporting them. The lives of your children sent into war are supporting them. The fact that they can do what they do without anyone stopping them means you are supporting them. You may not want to but you are.

[xyzpdq_us]

45. Good point

I was thinking more along the lines of moral support. Financial support is much more important as you pointed out.

[pro_blue_guy]

42. But.....

But, but, but......

I live in Ohio! Don't leave us behind!

I know, how about we create North Ohio and South Ohio. I leave it up to you to decide which part you'll take with you!

LOL

[Cleita]

46. Sorry, I know nothing about Ohio except what I read here.

When I was in Catholic girl's boarding school, we had one girl from Cleveland. We were all facinated by her because her underwear was black satin and lacey. We never knew why the nuns never noticed when they did one of their drawer checks for booze and cigarettes.

[Greyhound]

50. Been tried. But supposing it did, I think it would work really well for

the Blue State Citizens. As has been pointed out many times in the last year or four, the blue states have most of the intellect, money, resources, means of production, and culture. We/they would probably have to join, or at least ally with Canada, but I'm sure with a few concessions the Canadians would welcome us.
As for those unfortunate enough to live in red states, myself included, I would favor a short exchange period where we could move freely across the new borders. Most of the problems our country now faces would go away with the red states dragging us down. As for the future problems of new born citizens going all fascist, I think it unlikely after living in a truly civilized society.
Go Man, GO! :bounce:

[Cleita]

63. This is what I think too. We hold the majority of the assets,

now it's time to cut George off from his allowance.

[WilliamPitt]

51. Yeah, who needs that whole food/defense thing, anyway.

And if you say "Import food," I direct you to the history of Spain. Didn't work so well for them under Philip.

[Cleita]

52. Could you explain what you are talking about?

For one thing, California a blue state, provides most of the food in this country. I think we would love to share not to mention do business. About defense, if the military can be persuaded it's to their best interests to defend their states, it may work out.

Or, we can let Rummy deciminate the opposition in the Pentagon as he has been doing. (Seems there are only four star generals running the place now.) Rewrite the rules for nuclear war. (I'm screaming!) Or, we can convince the military in the dissident states to tell Washington to go to hell. The best naval bases from what I understand are in the blue states. Those who don't want to stay like in Florida can leave for a blue port.

Okay, I'm waiting to be blasted. :-)

[WilliamPitt]

54. Welp

Most of the food from California is carried by trucks out east and north, so that'll be a bit of a chore if we give up the entire middle of the country. Kansas, Nebraska and those others in the middle there do their part food-wise, too.

If you can come up with a plan to keep the militarty from actively attacking seceeding states (there's some history there), I'd be interested in hearing it.

[Cleita]

55. I'm not good at military stuff, so all I can say is let's hope there

is a military that is willing to follow their state leaders and leave with the state. Of course if those leaders seize all the military bases and other federal lands in those states, it might be a big incentive.

As far as the food, HELLO! We have got that lovely Trans Canada hwy up north that the Canadians are very proud of and that would be very useful, not to mention ships. The Panama canal is still open the last I heard and they probably can use the revenue.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

53. Party pooper

I thought I was finally going to be relocated. :P

[Phoonzang]

56. It's easier for individuals to just leave

Which is what I plan on doing. I've been planning it for a while, but this Katrina mess just has me wanting to leave that much more. The canary has died, time to get out of the mine...

[Cleita]

58. But easy isn't what creates gardens.

Stay and help with the rearranging of the chairs if that's what we have to do.

[lonestarnot]

57. Because this is MY fucking America! and I'm gona watch him go down

in a blaze methane one of these days!

[Cleita]

60. And this is one of the ways it could be done.

I really have no faith in the 2006 election anymore, or his getting impeached, or any of those things happening that Rove and Company are sitting around laughing at us about.

We can't even hope for the allies to come and free us like Europe could hope during WWII to free them from Hitler. We have to weaken him from within and it seems to me that cutting off his allowance is the way to do it.

[lonestarnot]

67. as in conscientious tax objection.... nah brother went that route once

ended up paying the IRS thousands in penalties and interest.

[lonestarnot]

68. and besides the next in succession is worse and progressively worse down

the line and so on and so on.

[nonconformist]

59. Because it's our country and by god I'm going to fight for it. nt

[Cleita]

61. Do you have any ideas or are you just waving a flag?

Really, tell me what's better?

[nonconformist]

64. Well, how about not all of us live in blue states then?

I currently live in Kentucky.

[Cleita]

66. I'm sure the blue states will offer you amnesty.

However, if Kentucky likes the * and what he does for them, then let them stay with him.

[kentuck]

69. Yep, that's what South Carolina said in 1860....

And we know how the Great Emancipator handled that one....?

[Technowitch]

70. Locking

Advocating a break-up of the United States is inappropriate.

We on DU are trying to save our country, not dissolve it.

Technowitch
DU Moderator