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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 11:40 PM
Original message
Poll question: Al Gore in 2008?
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Brightmore Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gore vs. Hillary in the primaries
would be interesting. Gore may be the anti-war, anti-Hillary candidate. Who knows?
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Gore Crushed Hillary on DU last week
like probably 20:1 in favor of Gore
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. Gore!
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. Glutton for punishment
Gore in 2008 would be the biggest mistake the party has ever made.

To win, the party needs new faces, new leadership with a new vision

Nothing against him personally, Gore is a not any of these things

How many times do you think the MSM will play for the American population the tape of him foaming at the mouth screaming "Bush betrayed our country"

The message will be meaningless because bush will be gone, all they will see is a very angry man. Angry men don't win elections.
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LuCifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. No....com'on now!
The BIGGEST mistake would be for the Dems to run another SKULL & BONER like Kerry! Or WORSE, I forgot, how about LIEberman or Zell Miller! DINOs! MEET THE DINOs! THEY'RE DEMOCRATS ONLY IN NAME! FROM THE, TOWN OF STUPID! THEY FUKU EVERYTHING UP FOR YOUR AND ME!

Lu Cifer, shit! Now I have the dame Flintstone's theme stuck in my head! DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Crazy Guggenheim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #44
57. Any candidate who doesn't say "Bush betrayed our country" will not get
my vote!
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #57
61. It's not what he said he's how he days it
Screaming and ranting may work on a internet board, but on live T.V. it doesn't look very good when that guy carries around the nuclear football
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Crazy Guggenheim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #61
76. Nothing's wrong with it. That's what the American voter wants.
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. Really????
Just ask Howard Dean.
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. He could win, but I think he's out of politics... wouldn't run
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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. The perfect campaign slogan for Gore - "Can you hear me NOW?"
"Good".
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. or "How You Like Me Now?!?!"
Edited on Wed Sep-14-05 06:05 AM by stlsaxman
Gore is the only choice for 2008.

The Repugs WANT it to be Hillary. They have demonized her so much already, it'll be easy to pick it up from where they (never really) left off. The meme is in place and in full force.

Besides, I honestly don't know if Hillary has said the US was lied to about WMD... I don't believe she has, if not- she continues to shill for her husbands new best friends, the BFEE.

Unless a newcomer hits the scene out of nowhere pretty quickly, Gore is the only choice for 2008.
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RedSpartan Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. How about a sly smile and say,
"Miss me?"
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. I just envisioned a new debate between gore and bush...
well, I know it wouldn't happen...but it'd be great.

Not once does Al Gore call bush 'Mr. President'...just 'sir'. :rofl:
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Will there be a 2008?



The way things are going I'm not so sure.


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papercut Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Gore/Clark or Clark/Gore
Either way is fine with me. The two best minds and most sincere hearts.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. I could live with it
But really, 2006 is more important right now.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hell Yes!
:headbang:
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. being from Tennessee myself...
Al should stay home. I've never liked him. (not that I would ever vote repub for Pres.) Alot of folks in TN don't.

The Dems wouldn't be doing themselves any favors.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Gore wouldn't need Tennessee to win the presidency.
And certainly it's not a more important state than the other 49.
Tennessee is basically a fundamentalist, retrograde, provincial place which cannot digest a cosmopolitan like Gore. It's worse than Wyoming.
But Gore would be the President of the United States not the President of Tennessee.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
51. I am from Knoxville, Tennessee and I have always admired the man
The problem with Tennessee is that it cannot recognize when it is being politically played. Ask yourself this question: do you really think the citizens of Tennessee would be facing the hardships they face today had Al Gore been allowed to take his rightful place in 2000 in the Oval Office.

Many of my mother's family live in and around Knoxville. Some of her people are very poor. All of them are so much worse off now that Bush has been in the White House for 5 years.

The GOP used religion to manipulate the good people of the South. At the same time, it demonized Al Gore, who though blasted by Chris Matthews throughout the election 2000 campaign, opened an interview with him about a year and a half ago with this sentence: "Everyone who knows you personally says you are a man of the highest personal integrity." This is very true of Al Gore, and as one Tennessean to another, I am so sorry you cannot see this.

You are right. Many people in Tennessee do not like Al Gore. I believe they have been brainwashed by the Republican propaganda machine. I hope you will find it within yourself to take another look at this man and objectively try to visualize what he and Tipper in the White House could do to restore this Country. One of the things I am sure they will look at is the now prevalent air pollution corrupting the sweet air of the Smokey Mountain arena. And the poor and the disadvantaged of Tennessee would find hope in having as their president a man who would not give the wealthiest of his contributors a tax cut while depriving the least of its citizenry. He would not entice the most uneducated among us to risk their lives in an illegal, immoral war through the use of blatant exaggerations and overt lies about weapons of mass destruction.

Try to look at this man with new eyes, appreciate everything he has done for this Country through his more than 25 years of service, and be proud to be from the State which gave Al Gore to this Country.
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. OTHER
There will be NO "election" in 2008
Why are we still pretending?!
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maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. Al Gore jumped the shark in 2000.
For not being more aggressive during the "selection",and ignoring the Black Caucus when they pleaded with him and the other "rollover" dems in the Senate.
Gore like Kerry had his chance and he let it slip away.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Bullshit.
Without a Senator's support Gore couldn't do a damn thing.
Study government rules before you say stupid things.
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Gores little
"We care" comment to one of the Senators of the Black Caucus during the plea for re-count is what turned me off from Gore. It was uncalled for and he got a big kick out of all those asshole Senators applauding and laughing with him. He's nothing more than a bad actor.....well, maybe not so bad an actor, seems like he's still got a lot of people fooled.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. In that situation
if anyone had the right to joke as much as he liked that was Gore.
There was no way out because there was no Senator willing to suppor the CBC. End of story. Gore knew it, I knew it and you make a big deal out of a harmless joke. (Gore has a tendency to have a sarcastic edge in tough situations, anyway. Which is one reason I like him. He is not a whiner.)
If you want to jump on some people let them be the Dem Senators who did not sign the petition. Gore alone had no power at that point to make a difference.

BTW after that remark Maxine Waters laughed together with Gore and the Sentators. Do you want to bash her, too?
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maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
58. He could have made a plea for support. But he didnt.
He rolled over and allowed the "selection", and now look at what has become of our country.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #58
69. Re:He could have made a plea for support. But he didnt.
Plea for support? What does that mean?
Exactly what should he have said and most importantly WHEN?
When the certification was already going on? There is no rule which allows the President of the Senate to make such a "plea for support". Gore had to play by the rules.

And you forget something important:
even if Gore had specifically asked a Senator to sign that petition and that Senator had been willing to sign it -- which I really doubt -- it wouldn't have made any difference because according to the Constitution if there is no aggrement on the electoral college the president is choosen by the House. And who had the House in 2000?
The Republicans. And guess who they would have voted for?
Bush. End of story.

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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. I like the possibility of Howard Dean running.
At least he doesn't back down from anything.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
18. HELL YES
As long as he's ready to FIGHT.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. No. Good man , ridiclously bad candidate.
Edited on Wed Sep-14-05 04:30 AM by bowens43
He couldn't beat bush. Bush, quite possibly the dumbest man ever to run for the presidency beat Gore. I know , Gore had more votes. Big deal, he didn't have enough. He should have won easily.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Gore was also running against the
corpwhorate owned MSM, not just Bush. The corpwhorate owned MSM trashed Gore for two years prior to election because he empowered us by championing the internet. The same corpwhorate owned MSM gave Bush a free pass, because they did not want an adult in charge. Even with the corpwhorate owned MSM working against him, Al still beat Bush by at least half a million counted votes nationwide. Only through mass corruption of the Florida election system through purging legitimate voters and various other means with the blessing of the corpwhorate owned MSM did Florida fall to Bush.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. You should explain that
to the dumb American voters who liked the fact that Bush was stupid.
45% still do. Hello? Is that Gore's fault?
Gore is not responsible for the stupidity of the voters.

And with that kind of electorate Gore couldn't have won easily.
He would have won easily in the UK or Sweden or Canada but not in the US.
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Sewsojm Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. Bad candidate??
:wtf:
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. That's from a media that hated him--well-documented. you swallowed it
he won and considering all that we have learned since (and knew already by then) about the Bush campaign methods, thats quite a feat. he is freed up from the Clinton shadow and is looser (he's always been funny) now. main thing is he underdstands the war is illegal and immoral and that is where we have to start from.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
20. A good man like Al Gore could heal this country, as long as ....cont.
he don't ask that damn Lieberman run with him!
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. He won't, he'll ask Shumer--less baggage n/t
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'm ABaR
Anybody But a Republican.

I really don't give a shit who the Dems nominate. After KAtrina, dumping Republicans IS the difference between living and dieing.
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
41. "...diff. between living and dieing" w/Some Dems, more Iraqis would die
and that is a big goddamned difference and you'd continue to see US soldiers dieing for a lie.
So any Democrat will not do.
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ladylibertee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
23. No more Stiffies.....They don't work.I want Edwards
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. I like Edwards too.. but Gore has loosened up considerably.
Did you see the pictures of him helping to fly those sick people to Tennessee hospitals? Wow, he didn't look like old Wooden Gore anymore.

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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. A Gore / Edwards ticket would work for me ...
I love those two.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Edwards IS a stiffy.
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. drummo, who do you like and why?
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. It's really not a question of liking someone.
Edited on Wed Sep-14-05 09:25 PM by drummo
The president is not you drinking buddy and should not be one. I don't care how stiff or loose or funny the president is. I don't care about make-up or wardrobe. I don't care about charm and backslapping and charisma -- whatever that is. I don't care about "leadership", either. We are not sheep.

Here's what matters:

- ability to work hard
- ability to focus on multiple issues at the same time
- discipline , ability to control emotions (No Don Juans like Clinton)
- relentless curiosity
- ability to learn quickly and analyse information quickly
- detailed knowledge of the federal government and all of its procedures In other words you have to know everything about this: http://www.lib.lsu.edu/gov/tree
- detailed knowledge of foreign countries, their population, politics, economy, military strenght etc.
- detailed knowledge of short-term and long-term threats, ability to find the the line between naivete and paranoia (not exactly something Bush and the neocons can do)
- detailed knowledge of our own military and defense capability, history of US military interventions, ability to assess risk-benefit ratio in various geopolitical crisis situations
- ability to think ahead and see various disaster scenarios, both manmade and natural, before they happen. This also depends on knowledge. You have to look systematically for expert analyses which describe disaster scenarios.
- ability to see the potential of technological and scientific advances
- willingness to listen to opposing views, no matter what someone's party affiliation is, and ability to suppress personal feelings about the source so that you can judge the proposal on its own merits
- willingness to communicate with the public on a frequent basis
- ability to communicate with the public in a non-emotional, pragmatic, articulate way
- rejection of mass manipulation using photo-ops, "damage control", smear campaigns, TV or radio ads, rejection of simplification. No soundbites, no slogans no "talking points".
- willingess to follow the rule of law, even if you don't like the law or you think it's just plain stupid
- willingness to respect separation of powers, the congress' investigative and oversight authority, even if its in the hands of the opposition party
- willingness to appoint competent individuals to various government positions, rejection of the concept of "political favor"

This is just a short list. But when it comes to actual governance and not just silly campaign tactics and "I feel your pain" melodrama these factors are far more important than any ideology let alone personality.

Now think about this list then think about Gore and compare him to other pols you know.
Can you say, with a reasonable mind, that there is anyone who is better qualified than him?

I posted this in another thread a week ago. I can't find it anymore so I repost it.
It was written by a guy named Richard on another board before the 2004 elections.
It's a very good summary which explains why Gore is not your average pol.

**********
Here are a few things why no other candidate comes even close to Gore on my list.
(Note: none of these comments were made by a Gore fanatic. These are unbiased opinions.)

"If you take a longer-range view, the outcome that Gore was pushing -- take the warheads off these land-based missiles, that single-warhead missiles are the route to stability on land -- what Gore was pushing for became conventional wisdom 15 years later."
Michael Krepon
Founding President of the Henry L. Stimson Center on Gore's 1983 arms control proposal

"Becoming an expert on nuclear arms gave Gore a national, and even international, reputation. Not an easy thing--can you name a junior congressman?"
Nicholas Lemann
“Gore Without a Script” The New Yorker, July 31, 2000

"January 1983, Washington: I had just gone to work for Arkansas congressman Bill Alexander, who slipped me into a turn-of-the-year issues workshop being held for newly elected Democratic members by returning Democratic congressmen. Two of the recognized masters on hand were Rep. Les Aspin of Wisconsin (later to be Secretary of Defense under President Clinton), who held forth on arms control and weapons policy, and Jake Pickle of Texas, who was equally respected on the ramifications of Social Security. The format permitted some relatively junior members to come in behind their elders and elaborate on the finer points of a subject, however. One such presenter was a dark-haired, earnest-looking beanpole named Al Gore. As a native Tennessean, of course, I recognized him to be the son and namesake of former Senator Albert Gore, who had been narrowly defeated for reelection back in 1970, an early casualty of the Republicans' Nixon-era "Southern Strategy." The younger Gore, a Harvard grad who had served in Vietnam and worked as a reporter for The Tennessean, was now representing his populist father's old congressional district in Middle Tennessee.Presenting meticulous, closely reasoned analyses of both weapons policy and Social Security, Gore proved more illuminating on those subjects than either Aspin or Pickle, the recognized experts, had been."
Jackson Baker
The Heir Apparent, The Memphis Flyer, May27-Jun2, 1999

"I think the short answer to that, at least in my judgment, is yes.I think the Clinton administration's decision making on many, not all, aspects of foreign policy and national security matters has been rather focused on short-term political and public relations matters. And let me say a word about, from my perspective, Vice President Gore's style of decision making, which I think is rather different. I first met him about 20 years ago when he was in the Congress, when Leon, whom I also didn't know at the time, called me.I had just gone back to law practice from being Under Secretary of the Navy, not an admiral. Leon asked me if I could come up to Capitol Hill to meet with Congressman Gore to talk about something I had worked on in the Pentagon, and I said, oh, you mean Navy matters? He said, no, when you were there before. I said, well, when I was there before, I was a lieutenant in the Army.What's this about? He said, well, it has to do with Code 50. Now, Code 50 was a computer program that was used for force exchange calculations in planning U.S. strategic weapons. So I went up to the Hill and really a rather modest office, to put it mildly, there is Congressman Gore in his shirtsleeves with a large stack of computer printouts. Leon is sitting next to him and they are poring through the printouts.And I said, "Can I help," and he said yes.He said, "I'm very dissatisfied with the studies that get done in the government on arms control and strategic planning.It doesn't seem to me they emphasize survivability enough and every time they do a study, they say it derives from this old Code 50, and I understand you used to program this. Can you help me understand the assumptions and the model so we can get a model written that is more along the lines of what's important rather than what's not important?"
I said, "Well, Congressman, you broke the code. That's what it's all about, is understanding the half-dozen or so key assumptions in these models and let's see if I can remember.This was 15 years ago." So we pored through this for close to an hour and he took careful notes on a yellow pad, and after he understood the half-dozen or so key assumptions in the Code 50 model, he said, "Thank you very much," and I got up and went back to my law firm. I remember thinking at the time, this is a different kind of Congressman. I had experiences in the administration, both working with the Vice President on the intelligence budget, working on matters related to Africa, and seeking his advice in my own resignation, which suggested to me that he is a man of substance, precision, and discipline in making decisions.I don't agree with him on everything, but I must say I think that on matters of foreign policy and national security policy, it would just be my personal prediction that you would see far more focus on long-term objectives and on substance in a Gore administration than you have in a Clinton administration."
James Woolsey
former CIA director answering the question: Would the Clinton administration policy have been better if Gore had been in charge?
Wednesday, June 14, 2000, American Enterprise Institute

"Gore has never shied away from tough foreign policy decisions. When he decided it was in the United States' strategic interest to dislodge Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991, he joined just nine other Democratic senators to vote in favor of the Gulf War. In Bosnia and Haiti, Gore decided the humanitarian and pro-democratic imperatives of putting a halt to mass murder and dislodging dictators off the Florida coast were legitimate reasons to send in U.S. troops. As it turns out, Gore was right on all three counts. Can you think of another politician with a similar track record?"
Alexandra Starr
The Stiff Man Has A Spine ,The Washington Monthly, September 1999 - Volume 31 Issue 8

"As tens of thousands of people were gathering in the stifling morning heat outside the city library to hear how the Democrats planned to fix it, Gore was inside the Arkansas Governor's hotel suite persuading him to take a stand on a Balkan dictator most Americans at that point had never even heard of. Within days, Clinton was attacking George Bush for being soft on Slobodan Milosevic and calling for military action. He had started down the road that seven years later led to Kosovo."
Karen Tumulty
The secret passion of Al Gore, Time, May 24, 1999

"He went ahead and went to Iowa. But once he got there, Gore--who had studied airline security as vice president, before anybody cared about it; who always took his CIA briefing; who could pronounce names like Osama bin Laden and Hamid Karzai at a time when most Americans could not locate Afghanistan on a map--Gore stood before that rabidly partisan crowd, and pronounced George W. Bush "my commander in chief."
Liza Mundy
Mr. Resident, The Washingon Post, November 17, 2002

"The guy genuinely does look seriously around the corner and into the future on a lot of issues a lot people don't pay attention to. In the early 1980s he was studying climate change and early global warming when that was not on people's screens. In the early '80s, he was also very interested in changes in computer infrastructure, in what he called the information superhighway. He would talk in congressional hearings about the day when everyone would have PCs in their homes. At his best, there's almost a prophetic edge to the guy."
Bill Turque
Newsweek, Author of "Inventing Al Gore"

"Back in the '80s, Mr. Gore was the only national political figure who understood what the Internet could mean to America's future."
Jaron Lenier
computer scientist and a pioneer of virtual reality
Al Gore: Internet Pioneer, Washington Post, April 21, 1999

"Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development." ... "The Vice President deserves credit for his early recognition of the value of high speed computing and communication and for his long-term and consistent articulation of the potential value of the Internet to American citizens and industry and, indeed, to the rest of the world."
Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf
designers of the Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)

"It is the case that Al Gore was perhaps the the first political leader to grasp the importance of networking the country (and later the world). In 1986 I chaired the Computer science and Telecommunications Board and Gore was our dinner speaker at the National Academy of Sciences. He spoke about the importance of a National Information Infrastructure. At the time he was a senator from a fairly small Southeastern state and I was amazed at his national vision. He has continued to be a national leader in promoting the importance of the internet for commerce and education."
Joseph Traub
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~traub/

"Al Gore has been one of my heroes for the last decade. I became aware of him around 1990 when he started being quoted a lot by the engineering types working on internetworking issues: He was the first legislator who actually appreciated what the Internet was all about, and he helped guide the 'net through a very tricky transition. When the 'net got started in the 1970's, every computer scientist who heard about it was jazzed, but only a very select clique could get to touch it: The hardware for the internet was these special computers called IMPs (I think that was short for Intelligent Message Processors) built by Honeywell, and outfitted with software and some minor hardware modifications by Bolt Beranek and Newman,and engineering company in Cambridge, Massachussetts. In order to get one of those, you had to be a research institution with contract funded research for the Advanced Research Projects Agency of the US Department of Defense. I think the rental for an IMP was something like $100,000 per year, which had to be paid out of the overhead on the research contracts, so small colleges need not apply!
Around 1980-82, the ARPAnet had grown to include major military posts, defense contracting companies and most universities that had any defense research contracts at all. It was now carrying several different classes of traffic:
- administrative traffic for the military
- administrative traffic between the military and its contractors
- and acting as a testbed for research experiments in protocol development.
During this period, TCP was developed, and the network switched from the original NCP protocol to TCP/IP. Shortly after that, the network had grown so large that it had run out of numbers for the IMPs (the hardware allowed 8 bits for the IMP number) and it was split into two separate networks connected by some routers called "mail bridges":
- network number 10 - ARPAnet
- network number 26 - MILnet
This split also helped calm the fears of some military people who were worried about sharing a network with potentially subversive students. This fear is why the connection between the networks was called "mail bridges" implying that only the relatively safe e-mail could get across. Despite the name, however, those were really full-fledged routers, providing a completely seamless
connection.
With IP installed, and the newly invented ethernet allowing for affordable campus networks, the major universities started attaching campus networks to the ARPAnet backbone, using VAX-11/780 mini-computers with the network-aware version of UNIX that ARPA had paid University of California at Berkeley to develop.
Many of the smaller universities wanted to participate, but did not have any military reaserch contracts to qualify them, so they banded together to build a compatible network running TCP/IP over X.25 (Telenet, Tymnet). This was known as CS-NET (for Computer Science network).
By 1989, the university-to-university traffic had dwarfed the military traffic, and the DoD wanted to divest itself of the overheads of running the network, so they asked the National Science Foundation to take over. Around this time, the NSF had started a program to build - I think it was 9 - national supercomputer centers, and needed to link them with the potential users at universities. They rented a bunch of 56 kbps lines - of the same kind that ARPAnet ran on - and installed a bunch of routers built out of inexpensive PDP-11/23 minicomputers, using a software package called FUZZBALL, developed by professor Dave Mills of University of Delaware. This created a second backbone, parallel to the DoD-sponsored ARPA backbone. Since NSFnet had no military funding, there was no longer a requirement for military contracts to be connected, but since it was paid for by tax dolllars earmarked for reasearch in the national interest, it was not available to businesses, except in support of government paid research.
It was at this point that Senator Gore stepped in, and basically brokered a deal where NSF stopped paying for the network, and instead gave the universities money to buy network services.
This made it possible to start network companies to compete with NSFnet and its regional affiliates. Several of the NSF-funded affiliates re-invented tehmselves overnight into for-profit ventures. NYSERnet became PSI, for example.
Without this visionary plan, there would not have been a commercial Internet. Because I had seen how elegantly Senator Gore pulled off this very good thing, I was happy to see him run for president,and even happier to see him join forces with Bill Clinton. I still think Al Gore is the better man."
Lars Poulsen
http://www.beagle-ears.com/lars/

"If it had been left to private industry, it wouldn't have happened, at least, not until years later."
Marc Andreessen
founder of Netscape, on Gore's Supercomputer Network Study Act of 1986 that helped fund the National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois, where a team of programmers led by Andreessen created the first browser

"In the early days of the Web, he was a believer, not after the fact when our success was already established -- he gave us help when it counted. He got us the funding to set up at MIT after we got kicked out of CERN for being too successful. He also personally saw to it that the entire federal government set up Web sites. Before the White House site went online, he would show the prototype to each agency director who came into his office. At the end he would click on the link to their agency site. If it returned 'Not Found' the said director got a powerful message that he better have a Web site before he next saw the veep."
Phillip Hallam-Baker
former member of the CERN Web development team

"Say what you want about Al Gore, but when it comes to difficult, complex matters of public policy, he has an impressive record of calling it right when others called it wrong. As a senator, Gore was the only Democrat to vote in favor of the Gulf War. He didn't "invent" the Internet, but he did sponsor the congressional spending bill that allowed it to expand outside the Pentagon. He was one of the hawkish members of Clinton's inner circle whose early advice to bomb Slobodan Milosevic in Bosnia and Kosovo to stop ethnic cleansing was both morally and strategically right. He was also a fiscal hawk who argued that cutting the deficit would lower long-term interest rates and lead to prosperity--a policy that worked beyond everyone's wildest expectations. He headed up a commission on airline security, whose recommendations, had they been followed, might have helped prevent September 11.
But more than anywhere else, it is on the environment that Gore can claim to have what every leader needs but few possess: vision. Before the rest of the world had ever heard the term "global warming," Gore was holding the first congressional hearings on the subject--in 1980! "
Stephanie Mencimer
Weather tis Nobler in The Mind, The Washington Monthly, July/August 2002


"When you get back to the vision issue, I believe that Gore has it within him to be an incredible president; he has it within him to be a truly great president, because he's sane, he's balanced, he's normal in a way Bill Clinton is not, he has a grasp of substance, he has a clear vision about the environment and about its centrality in our universe. He was 15 years ahead of anybody in understanding the consequence of global warming. And he's got a clear sense of where he wants to lead the country."
Dick Morris
political consultant and former advisor to President Clinton

"I actually think he's done a great job. I mean, he really did work, when nobody else was working, on trying to define what the hazards were in this country and how to clean it up and helping with the Superfund and other legislation."
Lois Gibbs
,the Love Canal resident who brought the issue to public attention, talking about Gore on CNBC's "Hardball," Dec. 1, 1999

"Al Gore was the first member of Congress from a tobacco state to take on the tobacco industry on health officials in any meaningful way. Whatever else you think of the guy in 1983 that was not something that was good politics, and it was something that took real personal courage. No doubt about where he is on the issue today."
Matthew Meyers
former head of the Coalition on Smoking or Health

"And to his credit, he also led the way in strengthening the language on health warning labels on cigarette packs. And so, you know, in spite of what happened later in his career, that really was unusually brave I think on his part to do that in the early 1980s."
Bill Turque
Newsweek, Athor of "Inventing Al Gore"

"For many scientists, however, the selection of the 44-year-old Democrat as Clinton's running mate immediately made sense. Far more than other lawmakers, Gore during his career in Washington has gained a reputation in the science community for being concerned, knowledgeable, and articulate on matters of science and technology. Researchers of various disciplines interviewed by The Scientist attest to this, saying they are impressed that Gore is well versed in scientific areas as diverse as space science, supercomputing, and biotechnology."
Barton Reppert
Researchers, Pro And Con, Cite Gore's Science Acumen, The Scientist, August 31, 1992

"I have interacted with him a number of times, at many conferences. And he is surely the most knowledgeable major politician in terms of his actual scientific knowledge."
F. Sherwood Rowland
atmospheric chemist at the University of California, Irvine and president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), a leading expert on atmospheric ozone depletion

"I think that in general, it's very difficult to find members of Congress who are as well-versed on those issues."
Allen Goldhammer
chief scientist at the Washington, D.C.-based Industrial Biotechnology Association, on Gore and biotechnology

"One reason Gore's always ahead of the curve is that he reads so much. The names he drops are not those of celebrities, but of authors."
Jake Tapper
"I'm not peaking too early", Salon.com, Aug. 4, 1999

"Well, there are two statements that are unquestionable. One is, he was deeply involved in the decision-making process that brought Alan Greenspan and kept him in the Federal Reserve system and also that brought Rubin into the Secretary of the Treasury's office, which has resulted in a good economic system, there's no doubt about that. Secondly, he was not involved in any way in the elationship between President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. So, the two factors that you questioned me about are inherently separated and not related."
Jimmy Carter,
answering the question: doesn't he have a fairly subtle task ahead, both stepping into the spotlight himself but still wanting to run on a record?, PBS, August 14, 2000

"Whatever the merits of running as a populist during a boom, Mr Gore's campaign is now looking more far-sighted by the day. Even the briefest reading of the press cuttings produces some choice quotations. Mr Gore gave warning that his rival was being bankrolled by “a new generation of special-interest power-brokers who would like nothing better than a pliant president who would bend public policy to suit their purposes and profits”; that these special interests were determined to “pry open more loopholes in the tax code”; and that “when powerful interests try to take advantage of the American people, it's often other businesses that are hurt in the process.” The people who would benefit from Mr Gore reining in the corrupt moguls would be “the small- and medium-sized companies that are playing by the rules and earning profits the old-fashioned way.”
...You might imagine that the Democrats would be falling over each other to praise their prophetic candidate-that the airwaves would be crackling with the sound of loyal senators claiming that, if only the Supreme Court had sided with Mr Gore rather than Mr Bush, the corporate scandals that are engulfing America could have been averted."
The Economist
A prophet without honour?, Jul 11th 2002

***********

So again. Name one who knows better than Gore how to govern at the federal level.
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #47
63. Thanks, appreciate the detail, BTW "like" has different senses.
And I was aware of only some these glimpses of the man. I really do think with all of his perceived flaws that he has marks of greatness, and this (parts i've read so far) has reinforced that.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. Yes, & he said he invented the Internet....
Any more Right Wing Talking Points you want to share?
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
49. Cece Connelly said Gore said that!
He never said it. Long since dis-proved.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #49
64. I know it's been disproved.
Just another of the lies--along with how "stiff" he was. Little Bush isn't exactly graceful.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
25. I could go for that!
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
27. Our best candidate..BY FAR. Experienced, electable, and a progressive!
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
28. Sure, I have no problem with that.
:kick:
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
33. Why do we keep going back to the old standbys?
I say we forget Gore, Kerry, Biden, and yes Hillary too! Senators very very rarely get elected! The last one was Kennedy in the 60's!!!

I think we need the opportunity to use the "I'm not part of the DC mess, and I will make things better" statement. EVERYBODY is sick of the DC beauracracy, on both sides, and if we select from that pool, we'll fail again!

We need someone like Paul Hackett, only it can't be him since he has NO political experience at all! I don't pretend to know all the Dem Governors, or maybe somebody like Spitzer, but we need to get the heck out of the dirt and corruption of Washington and find a GREAT Candidate thins time, because good or OK just won't make it!
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. BidenBayhClintonLieberman, all pro-war, Al: anti-war and freer now-
and he's not a Senator NOW. Senators running while in office rarely get elected. The message of post-katrina is that we expect things from Gov. and when it's not delivered or treated with callousness we think it's wrong--NOT a blanket brain-dead blame of some bugaboo bureaucracy.

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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
34. I could support Gore without any problem.
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politick Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
42. Why?
Why, why, why? Why would we run this man? No matter how good he is, the smell on him, infused by media skunks, is of loser. I'm sorry, but it's true. And they can easily talk about old news and fresh start and all that. He's better off, in my opinion, as an outside agitator, who has respect and gravitas as an elder statesman, than as someone trying -- again -- to win the presidency.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. Re:Why would we run this man?
Because he knows how to govern, that's why.
Good enough reason or you want entertainment?
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elsiesummers Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #42
62. I agree - the media ruined him for the presidency.
While I always believed Gore would make a great president (better than Kerry, better than Edwards who I supported last election, and better than Bill Clinton) the media and Rove did such a number on Gore in 2000 that he is too dammaged.

By too dammaged, I mean that he has permanently lost the votes of voters that he would need to win in 2008.

It is too bad, but the best Democratic Candidate is the one who can win the Presidency beyond stealing distance. I really don't know who I think that is on this round, but it's not Gore and it's not Kerry because they are both irredeamably tainted/dammaged by the media.

Also, in some ways there does seem to me to be some justice in the idea of no second chances once losing the GE (although Gore won but he didn't have the cajones to seize the office.) I especially feel this way in terms of Kerry's campaign. Less so about Gore's campaign, though he did too much of the Gentleman's rules nonsense.

I keep thinking of the RW talking point after 911 where they said "Thank God Gore wasn't President," in the context of the current Katrina disaster where I'm left thinking "if only Gore were president."
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
43. Please no. Barbara Boxer, Wes Clark, John Conyers, Maxine Waters
Edited on Wed Sep-14-05 01:52 PM by in_cog_ni_to
would be better. I like Gore, the man. Gore the politician...ain't so swift. He IS the man who REFUSED to let Clinton campaign for him in 2000. Remember? And Clinton was flying high in the polls too. BIG MISTAKE on Gore's part.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Nonsense.
Edited on Wed Sep-14-05 09:37 PM by drummo
You don't know what you are talking about.
Clinton's personal approval rating was below 40% in EVERY red state. He was loathed in the South for what he did with Monica and all the lies about the whole affair. Guess what? People do not have that short memory. They remembered 1998 in 2000 and looked at Gore and thought he was just like Clinton -- which was another nonsense but that's what many thought.
Name one red state which Gore would have won with Clinton on his side. And then prove it. Speculation will not be enough.

Moreover, Gore had the right to run his own campaign, just like Bush had it and Clinton had it in 1992 and 1996. And you are a fool if you think that people vote for a candidate just because someone else campaigns for him. Clinton himself admitted after 2004 that it doesn't work. Reagan campaigned for Bush in 1992 and it didn't work. At the same time Bush Sr ran his won campaign in 1988 and he defeated Dukakis big time. Clinton campaigned for Kerry in 2004 and it failed miserably.

So please don't tell me that it was a mistake. It was a logical decision and Clinton wouldn't have had anything to do with a Gore administration anyway. So what on earth should he have done during Gore's campaign?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
65. Nonsense my ass. What would Clinton have done during Gore's campaign?
Edited on Thu Sep-15-05 02:13 PM by in_cog_ni_to
Uh....get those things called VOTES????!!!! Clinton was still very high in the polls at election time because the American people were pissed off about the 8 year witch hunt and $60 MILLION WASTED by the repuke party and Ken Starr. Clinton would have DEFINITELY helped Gore get more votes. Again, nonsense my ass! It WAS a mistake. A HUGE mistake because we are now suffering the repercussions of that fateful decision on Gore's part....the repukes destroying this country.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Re: What would Clinton have done during Gore's campaign?
Uh....get those things called VOTES????!!!!

Sure. Any evidence that shows Gore would have won more votes if he had campaigned with Clinton? You don't have any evidence. This is just baseless speculation. Kerry did campaign with Clinton and it didn't help him at all.
With every move on the campaing trail you both win and lose votes. Can you prove that Clinton wouldn't have alienated even more voters from Gore?
And which red state would Gore have won if people had seen Clinton on his side? Name one.
And which blue state would Gore have lost if people had seen Clinton on his side?

And explain: why should anyone vote for Gore just because Clinton campaigns for him? Where is the logic in that?

Clinton was still very high in the polls at election

Clinton WAS NOT very high in the polls in 2000 at all. His personal approval rating was below 40% in EVERY read state, all right? That's a fact. And 2000 was not about the issues. It was not about the economy. It was about character. Why do you think the media and Bush bashed Gore's character all the time? Because it worked. Why did it work? Because a hell of a lot pf people had Clinton fatigue due to the endless scandals (real or speudo). You are naive if you think that in 2000 Clinton's job approval rating would have mean anything good for Gore. Most people did not give credit to Gore for the economy because he was just vice president and veeps ususally do not get credit for anything when they run for president -- that's historically true, ask Bush Sr about it -- and because the boom lasted for so long they believed the economy would be in good shape no matter who is in the White House. That sentiment, too, was confirmed by polls at the time and Gore knew about them.
Moreover I think most people can decide on their own whether they were better off economically in 2000 than they were in 1992. They didn't need a Bill Clinton -- or Al Gore for that matter -- to explain the obvious.

because the American people were pissed off about the 8 year witch hunt and $60 MILLION WASTED by the repuke party and Ken Starr.

They were pissed off by Clinton's immorality and lies. In 2000 Ken Starr was old news. Clinton was not.

Clinton would have DEFINITELY helped Gore get more votes.

Any evidence for that? Just because you say so it will not make it so.

Again, nonsense my ass! It WAS a mistake.

It was not. It was a logical step based facts. Do you think Gore did not have polls in Arkansas, Tennessee, Florida etc? Come on. He knew very well what most people thought about Clinton in those states. And it was not good.
And as I said Clinton himself admitted after 2004 that people do not vote for someone just because he is campaigning with someone. Similarly people do not vote for someone just because someone else endorsed him or her. That's the reality and can be proven by historical data.
Clinton campaigned for Kerry in 2004? And as a result Kerry won the election, yeah?


A HUGE mistake because we are now suffering the repercussions of that fateful decision on Gore's part....the repukes destroying this country.

Complain about that to Clinton who could not control his zipper. No Monica no Bush. And it was not Gore's fault.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. No one gave a shit that he had a personal affair. ONLY repukes cared.
It was no ones damn business and if his wife forgave him, why should YOU give a shit what he did in his private life. He was too high in the polls. Gore fucked up by not letting Clinton campaign. No one but the repukes gave a shit about Clinton's zipper problem. :eyes:
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Re: No one gave a shit that he had a personal affair. ONLY repukes cared.
Edited on Fri Sep-16-05 07:46 AM by drummo
No one gave a shit that he had a personal affair. ONLY repukes cared.


Really? Then how do you explain that in the red states Clinton's personal approval ratings were around 40% or worse? That was the case in Arkansas, Tennessee, Florida, Virginia etc.
How can you explain that if indeed only Reps cared about Clinton's lack of morality and lies?
It was not just a personal affair. It was about Clinton's lies after the affair which created the political climate in which no Democrat who was linked to Clinton could have run an issues-only prez campaign in 2000.
You overestimate the intelligence of the American voter.

He was too high in the polls.

No, he was low in the polls. You don't know what you are talking about.
Clinton's job approval rating was irrelevant since noone gave credit to Gore for what Clinton did for the economy. They only blamed him for the bad things. Including those which he had nothing to do with such as Clinton's lies.
Which is usually what vice presidents get from the voters if they run for president.

Gore fucked up by not letting Clinton campaign.

Prove it. Give me evidence that shows Gore would have won more states, instead of losing more, if he had campaigned with Clinton.
You can't prove it because there is no such evidence.
Don't forget just because Bush says that Saddam has a nuke program it will not make it so. Similarly, just because you say Gore would have become president if he had campaigned with Clinton it will not make it so.

And again: Clinton did campaign with Kerry. Did it help?

No one but the repukes gave a shit about Clinton's zipper problem.

That's a typical liberal illusion. Wishful thinking.
Check out the 2000 exit polls. The most important issue in 2000 was character. Not the economy. And 80% of the voters said that Bush was more thrustworthy than Gore.
Bush and the MSM could create that perception because of what Clinton did during the 90s. And it was not just a zipper problem. The main problem was that Clinton lied consistently about the affair.
As a result in 2000 the Bush camp focused on character, (honor and dignity) the media focused on character (Gore is a pathological liar) and the voters focused on character. Not on the economy.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
48. How about Al Gore right now?
I like that even better.
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Vadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
53. I don't know! I love Al but he disappointed the hell out of me when...
he conceded! I begged him not to concede and told him that we were all behind him and would fight for him! I felt so bereft when he conceded that I just turned off politics for a while. I knew that he had won--as many of us did--so why did he concede so damn early?



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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. Early?? 36 fucking days after election day is "too early"??
And by that time most of the public turned against him.
The Supreme 5 stopped the recount and that was it. Gore had no more option.

Or what do you think he should have done?
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
54. Please, no more "sore Gore."
I can hear it now.

He wont win. Good man, got screwed out of the last election that he won, but he wont win this time.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Nice to see how quickly you concede to wingnuts.
So what if they call Gore a sore loser? They call every damn Democrat traitor or worse. Hello? What did they do to Max Cleland? Or Kerry? Or Clinton? Or Daschle?

The wingnuts will decide who should be the Dem nominee or what?

Just go to a freeper board. When can you find one who says "no don't nominate X beucase the left would demonize him"? They don't care about what the left says about their people so why should we care about what they say about our people?
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #55
66. I said twice in my post, he "wont win"
I'd rather see a candidate run that stands a good chance of winning.

THAT is my reason for being opposed to seeing him run, because he "wont win," not because the wingnuts would demonize him.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. But you suggested that he "won't win"
Edited on Thu Sep-15-05 05:32 PM by drummo
because the wingnuts (including the MSM) would portray him in a negative light, to put it mindly.

So why do you think he "won't win"?
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. I can see how my post read that way.
I wan't clear. But that's not what I meant. I was being lazy. ;)
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ignatius 2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
59. Gore is a wonderful human being. What a change from the walking
disaster we have now to have a president who is articulate, intelligent and genuinely caring about people and the environment.

He got a raw deal from the supreme court(I often wonder if any of the 5 traitors ever regret their decision) and Bush's paid minions in Florida and I was hopeful that he would run in 04. Maybe with all the cheating and the Diebold machines it worked out best that he didn't, but I think he would make a wonderful president and I am certain that things would have been so different if he had been able to take his rightful place in the white house and the will of the people had been fulfilled.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
60. THERE's A GROUP FOR THIS.
FOr the second time in as many days. Just want to make sure everyone knows this.........
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
68. "If you voted for Bush's War, I won't vote for you."
That should be our mantra.

And any politician who voted for Bush's War in Iraq and has not recanted that vote, does not deserve our support.

No exceptions.
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Amen.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
73. Shoukd have run in 2004. By not doing do, he legitimized W. (although
not as much as kerry did with his concession)
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drummo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Nothing can legitimize the bastard.
But I think Gore would have run if the Dem establishment had supported him. And they didn't. Donna Brazile said after 2000 the Dem party
didn't want to do anything with Gore. She actually used less diplomatic words.
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