NOLA recovery pics: PICK UP THE DAMN CAT!

[iconoclastic cat]

:banghead:





More horrible pics at this site (warning, horrifying!): http://cryptome.org/katdead-01/katrina-dead-01.htm

More pet thread info at nicknameless's thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4765178

BTW, yes, I was yelling the subject line in my apartment.

[soup]

1. Is that cat Following them? n/t

[iconoclastic cat]

4. It sure looks like it, doesn't it?

:banghead:

I don't know whether to cry or scream. This whole nightmare had hardened my resolve: I must do more--much more--to both assist in helping the victims and ridding our country of its murderous regime.

F'ing. Bastards.

[soup]

5. Tried to reply,

but I've got nothing. nothing.

[fasttense]

2. The least among them. n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

3. I was yelling too!!!!!

The entire sequence is heartbreaking in so many ways...

[WePurrsevere]

6. It's obviously friendly... the poor sweetheart...

It breaks my heart to know so many wonderful loving furbabies are in need of help. Dammit I wish we were closer and had more funds to offer to the pet rescue folks. :banghead:

What effort would it take the person who is not helping carry the bodies to pick the cat up, since it's OBVIOUSLY rathe friendly, and get it to a group that wants to help and care for it? :grr:

[Atman]

7. Okay, I get to be the bad guy

The last thing I want when I'm standing knee-deep in toxic sludge is a kitty cat's claws digging into my protective suit. I'm sorry the kitty is lonely, but did you think for a moment what is going through the minds of the men digging dead grannies out of piles of shit? Probably not, "aw, look at da kitty."

Sorry. Fire away.

[iconoclastic cat]

9. I do understand that the conditions are horrendous.

However, I doubt very much that a cat's claws could puncture a protective suit. Besides, how hard would it be to put the cat in a box and drive it to one of the pet rescue groups and let them deal with cleaning the cat off?

[Atman]

11. I think "how hard could it be" is a ? you and I could never imagine

I really, really do understand your point. I am a cat guy; my last three lived nearly 18 years with us. I'm not unsympathetic, just realistic. We cannot begin to compare anything in NO with what anyone would do under normal circumstances. I also think of the guys charged with hauling the dead. Who gets to break for the kitty while the rest of the crew shovels bodies?

How hard would it be to drop off a cat at an animal shelter, when 50% of the sprawling city is underwater and covered in toxic slime? My guess is, pretty damned hard.

[mopaul]

10. seriously, what about the poor dead human being?

any concern there?

[iconoclastic cat]

13. Mopaul, that point has been made.

[Ioo]

14. Honestly

No, that poor person is dead, his/her suffering is over. That cat is still alive, and has only started the long road to death.

I am angered by the reason they are dead, and I am sad that they have died.

What I am going to say is very anti-Dem of me, but I have always felt that PEOPLE can take care of themselves far better than a house pet. We owe the sick and the old the help they need, but pets we take into our home are not critical thinkers, they are dumb cats and dogs.

When it is all said and done, people have control of where they physically are right now, pets do not.

Do I care about the people still stuck, in need of help and alive, Hell yes... The same as the cat.

[mopaul]

15. i like cats, and dogs too

truly i do. but priorities under these horrific conditions are clear.

[Ioo]

19. Yes, I agree...

Unless you are a watcher of to many horror flicks, the dead are not going to go anywhere.

As someone said, if it is alive, resuce it (period).

I understand the task at hand is not easy, and we as a nation have not even started to understand the mess we are in. That being said, Allowing pets to die in the streets only creates more death and dispare. What if that cat right there has an owner that is looking for it. The 2 meet and something very good comes out of this.

I am just saying, I don't want anymore death here. None.

[mopaul]

21. i understand your angst

i feel it too, believe it or not.

[iconoclastic cat]

16. Or how about this: If it's STILL ALIVE, human or pet, RESCUE IT.

:banghead:

[mopaul]

17. i wish they could save ALL the animals

but they can't, they're too busy gathering dead people

[Coventina]

24. If people had been allowed to take their pets in the first place

Maybe many of these people would not have died.

This tragedy was compounded by a lack of compassion for creatures more helpless than ourselves.

[iconoclastic cat]

25. Clarification: Creatures that we have *made* totally dependent on us.

[mopaul]

27. what can you say about a person who perished with the cats...

...rather than go and be saved? seriously.

[Coventina]

31. That they have compassion not to abandon those that depend on them

Unlike the insecure who insist that THEIR needs come first all the time.

[justiceischeap]

18. I second that sentiment. (eom)

[Atman]

20. Cats are amazingly resiliant

And why do you assume she was on a slow road to death? These photos are a snapshot in time, a few seconds of one day. Maybe the cat DID get to a shelter, ten minutes later. Maybe she had a nice warm spot picked out to snooze in...I doubt she was curling up in mud puddle to sleep -- cats don't do that.

My point is, you make LOTS of assumptions from these 1/1000th sec images of time. Why not think happy thoughts? The cat doesn't look emaciated. Maybe he jumped in the truck with the workers after following them around all day, and had a nice dinner and warm bed that night.

More importantly, keep some perspective. Imagine it was you loved one in that body bag, or missing for ten days. Would you then be yelling at the workers to stop what they're doing to pet a kitty?


Ohhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Ioo]

26. I see your point, but...

I also understand that the dead stay dead...

Looking for missing people is another thing outright, and it is being done. Body recovery, that is another thing.

Sadly it just dawned on me, the owner of that cat may be the one in the bag, cats are very loyal, and will do just that, follow them. If that is the case, then yes, pet the kitty because it does not understand what is going on, and you are about to take the one thing it had away.

Sorry to sound like an ass people, but we place animals where they are, they are not free to leave as we are.

[Atman]

29. "they are not free to leave as we are."

I think they had a lot more freedom to leave than the poor residents of New Orleans did.

[Coventina]

32. Oh please

Pets do not have freedom to pack little bags and move to another place.

You are really reaching for excuses to be hard-hearted.

[Atman]

36. What would cats pack? Mine cat's toys would fit in her pants pockets.

You're beginning to sound like a loon.

[Coventina]

42. You are the one that thinks animals are capable of leaving their owners.

I was merely further stretching your conceit.

[Atman]

51. I know for a fact that cats are capable of leaving their owners.

Or are you the only person never to have had a pet run away?

[Coventina]

54. I never have had a pet run away.

And do you seriously think any pets follow evacuation orders for hurricanes?

[Atman]

65. No, but they climb trees.

How did THIS cat survive so long? Did you think of that? Maybe its a good, strong, hardy cat. Maybe it IS getting fed someplace. The assumptions you are making about people are amazing.

[Coventina]

68. You are the one who said the animals had more freedom to leave than the

people did.

A statement that I find totally ludicrous.

[Atman]

71. "A statement that I find totally ludicrous."

Then we're even, believe me. In fact, I think I owe you a couple.

Buh-bye. This thread is simply lunacy.

[Ioo]

69. Not all cats can, people declaw them...

You just do not get it, animals are slaves to us, we teach them NOT to think on thier own. We want them to depend on us, that is why we get them.

I can declaw my cat, he can say nothing about it. I ME I Control his every move.

[Ioo]

43. I dissagree...

My cats can not leave the house unless I allow them to.

Again, this is where I and the Far-left depart... So forgive me

Unless you have no feet, you are never without trasportation. The old and sick need our help, and we as a nation owe that to them. Rich or poor, feet work the same

[Atman]

52. Bingo

"Unless you have no feet, you are never without trasportation."


Cats have feet.

[Ioo]

Not if they are locked in my house dude...

Cats feet only go as far as I allow them. I lock my cat in the bathroom, he is not going to turn the knob and go. I lovk him in the house, he has a hard time with the dead bolt.

You are not helping your argument here.



They can only go as far as that box... get it?

[Coventina]

30. You are ALSO making a lot of assumptions

Many people have DECLAWED their cats, making them essentially helpless. Many people keep their cats strictly indoors, which makes them ignorant about hazards like cars, dogs, etc.
Why are we supposed to believe your fairy tale? I suppose all the people that are currently on the list of missing, well we can imagine that they are vacationing in the Bahamas or something.

You anti-animal people kept saying not to rescue animals while there were people to be still rescued. Now it's, "Don't rescue animals while there's human bodies." It's all an excuse for you to hide behind your own insecurity. A lack of compassion is insecurity.
Pure and simple.

The bottom line is that humans have made these animals dependent on us, and we as humans are shirking responsibility by abandoning them in their time of need.

If I'm dead, I don't give a rip what happens to my body. If there is a living, breathing creature that needs help, its needs comes first.

[Atman]

35. "You anti-animal people" -- Wha wha whaaaaaaaaat?

I guess you're just reponding to my posts and not actually reading them.

And, btw, why are we to believe ANYTHING? My story does not become a "fairy tale" simply because you choose not to believe it.

"It's all an excuse for you to hide behind your own insecurity. A lack of compassion is insecurity."

And THAT is simply a big steaming crock of armchair psychology, based upon YOUR insecurities. Were you left behind somewhere as a child or something? I mean, as long as we're making up stuff about people we don't know...

[Coventina]

40. Your posts indicated that the cat does not need rescuing

That, to me, indicates a lack of compassion.

In my experience, people who lack compassion are insecure.

[Atman]

48. Indicates this, indicates that. But not actually SAYING that.

YOU pulled out what my post "indicates." I posted only facts and what I believe. You called me an animal hater, although I have had cats my entire life, all of whom died of old age in our care, not neglect or disinterest or lack of compassion. We lost our lemon beagle last year after a bout with cancer. I haven't cried so hard in twenty years.

I never said the cat does not need rescuing. I am sorry you are taking all of this so personally, but you don't seem to be reading/comprehending the posts you are replying to. I suggest you climb down of that white horse of yours long enough to stop and smell the roses, which are currently lying under 10 feet of water, a foot of sewage, a couple of dead bodies and an overturned truck.

[Coventina]

50. You started your posts on this thread by declaring yourself the bad guy

'nuff said.

[Atman]

61. That's me, Mr. Animal Hater.

Again, you just don't seem to be reading what you're responding to. Do you really, honestly not know what my "allow me to be the bad guy" line meant? I mean, really? You seem to have a command of the English language, at least when insulting people and twisting their words.

My post was the first one to suggest that the men in the picture had higher priorities, maybe even orders, while the other posters were saying "aw, poor kitty." Get it? "Allow me to be the bad guy." Yeah, sure, I can see how you figured that meant that I hate animals.

At least now you can use my subject line as a verbatim quote to PROVE I hate animals. Sheesh.

:eyes:

[mopaul]

37. i am certainly not anti-animal, don't you understand that?

i am not a hater of kitties or puppies, but some seem to be dwelling on the pets to a strange degree. the dead MUST BE REMOVED, they are a serious health hazard. the pets, tragic as it is, are not at the top of the list of things to do.

[Coventina]

45. And where exactly DO the needs of the animals that have been abandoned

come on your "list"?

[mopaul]

59. not first, definitely not first

[Coventina]

64. Well, I think it is our duty as humans to take responsibility for those we

have made dependent upon us.

Anything else is cowardly and a betrayal.

[justiceischeap]

67. With that said

The dead are a serious health hazard to the living, which includes these animals.

I dwell on the rescue of the animals because they are living, sentient beings who through ages of domestication have become reliant on human beings for survival. Yes, domesticated animals can survive in the wild for a short time, just as humans can but the quality of that survival is severly limited. Concern and caring for animals or the lack thereof speaks volumes of the human condition.

At this point, all of the animals left alive in NO are drinking from the toxic water and eating what food they find that has been sitting in the toxic water. Lots of people have been discussing the toxicity of the city, well then put it in perspective, leaving these animals to fend for themselves will "pollute" them; they then spread disease and that leaves the strong possibility that all remaining animals in NO will need to be euthanized because they themselves have become walking, breathing "Super Fund" sites.

Another thought, those that are rescuing the animals in NO are reporting developing "blisters" from exposure to the water. Some may call these chemical burns. Imagine what that is doing to the insides of a living being, forget the fact that they are animals.

[Catchawave]

12. Maybe they can take along animal rescuers too ?

I know some animal teams are picking up live humans that were "missed" by the people rescuers!

Just saying, most of these people didn't evacuate because of their pets. It would be a lovely tribute to the dead grannies to at least take care of Fluffy.

[theHandpuppet]

28. Yep, I agree with you!

I think some folks are wayyyyyy outta line here. Those folks are doing the damn best they can with a job none of us would want. They are probably covered with bacteria and a tear in the suit from a scared cat could be lethal.

Pet rescue should be left to people who know how to properly rescue animals and know what to do with them AFTER they've been rescued.

Pardon those folks for not picking up the cat when they're busy carrying someone's dead body.

Some of you folks should be ashamed for some of the comments I've seen here. I've got six furkids of my own and just sent a check to rescue this morning, but I'm not going to fault this recovery crew for not picking up that cat. Jeeze, people!!

[iconoclastic cat]

34. Why turn this into a flame war?

This is exactly the problem with the entire culture in the US: we waste time doling out "shame" to one another for not following our exact concept of "what should be done."

My point in posting this was not to diminish the need to recover corpses, nor was it to suggest that the rescue workers are negligent or should be putting themselves in more danger than necessary. I have one point and one point only: Rescue the living.

Notice I did not say, "forsake the dead" or "screw the rescue workers." Nor did I say, "Handpuppet should be ashamed for _______."

I'm saying this, and only this: Rescue the living.

[theHandpuppet]

41. You provoked one with the very title of this thread

Which read as a condemnation of those relief/recovery workers. Perhaps you should have made your point clearer in your original post.

[iconoclastic cat]

46. My esteemed and respected friend, I was expressing frustration.

Hence the emoticon. Nowhere did I condemn anyone except *.

edit: spelling

[theHandpuppet]

58. Okay, but your thread title was provocative

That's why tempers started flaring. Now that you've provided an explanation, I accept the fact that it was not your intention to attack the recovery workers.

I wish more animals could be rescued, as well. This has been a tragedy all the way 'round.

[iconoclastic cat]

63. Next time, I'll tone it down.

[theHandpuppet]

88. It was the photo juxtapositioning the cat with the recovery workers

If you can't see that people were making a connection to the visual you chose to present -- especially when you gave us little else but an exclamatory thread title -- what can I say?

[iconoclastic cat]

89. I *do* see, and I *do* agree with you. Now I am agreeing *twice.*

[Ioo]

8. You have made me cry...

You know that cat is following them because he is a house cat, he is seeking some sort of contact. He is hungry and is most likely crying for someone to pet him.

Cats rasied in homes need love... My heart just broke.

[The Stranger]

22. Seems like evidence that they are NOT rescuing animals.

Even when the people who are a priority are ALREADY DEAD.

One more recommendation for greatest . . .

[mopaul]

23. the dead, although dead, need to be removed immediately

no, they are not helping the dead, they are removing them

[theHandpuppet]

33. Thank you!

Get REAL, people! Removing dead, decomposing bodies from the streets of NOLA is a TOP priority -- not for sentimental reasons but for very real public health concerns for both living people AND animals.

[Ioo]

62. Not really...

A little off topic, but some education is needed. Recovery of the dead needs to be done, but it is not a very real health concern. That is a myth, based on the fact that people do not like dead bodies everywhere.

http://www.google.com/search?hs=gDs&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=dead+bodies+health+hazards%3F&btnG=Search

"due to the fact that bodies are not the health hazard most people think"

"We accept the word of public health officials that dead bodies are not usually dangerous to health."

"situations, the health hazard associated with dead bodies is negligible.

"decayed human bodies do not generally create a serious health hazard"

"there is generally no health danger from dead bodies in the water"

[mopaul]

66. so, save the gerbils and boas first and let the dead rot a while?

[iconoclastic cat]

70. Mopaul, would you please use your powers of rhetoric for good, not evil?

Your point is both valid and correct: the dead must be recovered. Nobody is disputing that. The point of the original post was to express that more must be done to rescue all living beings. Nobody is saying to forget the dead.

[mopaul]

72. my evil knows no depths

sorry

[iconoclastic cat]

77. No, you're just a natural born copywriter with an incisive tongue.

[mopaul]

78. i am truly ashamed of myself o.k.?

[iconoclastic cat]

83. Break out the hair shirt!

How long until this thread gets locked, do you think?

[Atman]

87. I'm surprised it's still open, actually.

I know the mods have been alerted!

[iconoclastic cat]

90. You know in the same way that I know I ate breakfast this morning?

[Atman]

91. hehehe

Good one. Kinda poetic.






No comment.

[Coventina]

74. Nice attempt to deflect. The OP was referring to a cat (or dog)

that is RIGHT THERE. Obviously wanting help and attention, not locked in a cage in someone's house that a rescuer would have to actively look for.

[Ioo]

76. No, I am just correcting your logic...

You said that we had a serious heath risk having dead around, and that is not true. I have not advicated stopping, I have said we can do both. But to ignore the cat is very sad.

The dead are dead, and that will not change, so do we want MORE dead?

[DefenseLawyer]

75. The point of view of the pet people

is fascinating to me. It is very different from my own, as I would focus on saving people (including removing the serious health risk created by dead bodies) before I would divert time and energy to pets. If a pet is lost it is sad, but I don't put in on an equal footing with losing a person. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, it is just interesting how different people look at the same set of circumstances differently.

[iconoclastic cat]

80. Thank you! Now, I hope everyone reads this.

Or, at least, before this thread is locked.

[Ioo]

Dead bodies pose little risk in health... That is a Myth

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4765715&mesg_id=4766711

"due to the fact that bodies are not the health hazard most people think"

"We accept the word of public health officials that dead bodies are not usually dangerous to health."

"situations, the health hazard associated with dead bodies is negligible.

"decayed human bodies do not generally create a serious health hazard"

"there is generally no health danger from dead bodies in the water"

[iconoclastic cat]

38. OMFG. Can DUers have a discussion without calling one another idiots?

I want you to read this post on this thread.

edit: typo

[iconoclastic cat]

60. And now this is on the GREATEST PAGE?

I have created a monster.

[Atman]

73. I sense it will soon be killed

nt

[Mizmoon]

39. I give people dealing with rotten corpses a pass

I can't imagine what they must be going through, though I too wish they'd saved the kitty.

[Barack_America]

44. For the record, I think that it's a dog...

...and I've also heard that the deceased was the dog's master and that the dog was found sitting by his side...

Animals are so much more heroic than people...

[iconoclastic cat]

47. I disagree. Notice the facial structure and tail flexibility.

Only one way to find out.

[Barack_America]

55. Here's the photo caption from AP

"Recovery officials in protective suits load a recovered body as a dog stands on the corner after floodwaters from Hurricane Katrina receeded revealing a layer of mud Thursday, Sept. 8, 2005 in St. Bernard Parish near New Orleans. The dog followed the workers with the body from the home to the ambulance. (AP Photo/David J. Phillip)"

It makes me sick. That animal was so loyal, and this is the repayment.

[iconoclastic cat]

56. Link?

[Barack_America]

79. Here's where I saw it a few days ago, hope it works!

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050909/480/ladp12709090140

[Atman]

85. Okay, this changes everything...Dogs are HELPLESS DOLTS!

As long as we're all misunderstanding and flaming one another!

I am serious, though. It really does change my perception. Dogs are far, far more dependent on their owners than cats are. I'd also be worried about what that dog is snacking on while out with those guys.

What is doesn't change are all the facts WE DO NOT KNOW.

Maybe the dog actually followed these guys home at the end of the day.

Why must we ALWAYS assume the most negative connotation?

[iconoclastic cat]

86. Negative connotations

Well, I think we're pretty conditioned to expect horror at this point.

[Eurobabe]

57. it's a CAT, not a frickin'dog

tails too upright and long.

Rescue the poor thing for cryin' out loud!

[Barack_America]

81. Biggest freaking cat I've ever seen!

For whatever it's worth, here's the link to the photo + caption

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050909/480/ladp12709090140

[iconoclastic cat]

82. Yes, we're in open DU civil warfare over what is apparently a dog.

[Barack_America]

84. It's really a moot point, except that somebody mentioned...

...how resilient cats are, hence the animal could've survived without being picked up right away.

Well, this is a dog, is less resilient and was faithful to its master to the end. Hopefully the rescuers respected that and at least called animal rescue to the site...

[bklyncowgirl]

49. Sad, very sad. But how do we know that they didn't all animal rescue?

The cat needed to be picked up but it's not these people's job to do it.

These people are doing a job more horrible than you and I could ever imagine and they have to be focused on thier job.

I'm not going to criticize the people on the ground--the politicians yes, but not the people on the ground.

[iconoclastic cat]

53. Again, nowhere in my OP did I condemn anyone.

And we don't know. You are correct.

[iconoclastic cat]

92. How about this: For every DUer on this thread who donates to a relief

agency--human relief or otherwise--I will post a reply that I am an idiot for posting this in the manner that I did.

[Moderator]

93. Locking...

This thread has run its course.