I DO NOT Support the "under God" phrasing of the Pledge of Allegiance

[Whoa_Nelly]

Back-burner this for now, but it should not be an issue allowed to become a non-issue and simply be let go for "expediency".

If it were voted on today simply to move on to other pressing issues, it would be a slap in the face to all who believe in separation of church and state. Even more importantly, to uphold the premise that it's such a non-issue that it can "cleared out" and "taken off the table" adds even further to the dismantling of the Constitution regarding civil liberties.

We, as a nation, are not made up of a whole cloth Christian belief. When it becomes allowed by ruling to continue indoctrinating children to support that belief system, then we, as a nation, have failed our children by not schooling them in their rights as under the Constitution.

It is imperative that US Public Schools, funded by federal and state monies, not be the stage for forcing one singular belief system that becomes the blanket belief system for all. Privately funded schools can insert whatever they wish into the Pledge of Allegiance, such as Under God, Jesus, and Constantinople, as long as they are not receiving federal funds.

I can support the indoctrination view of stating the pledge within the public school venue, and that those who choose, whether by their own decision or through their parents' instructions, be allowed to not participate. However, the "under God" part has to go.

And by all I've stated above, I feel it important to add, that this particular issue should become a catalyst in changing recent court decisions that allow placement of Christian belief on any US public grounds, such as the Ten Commandments being allowed on courthouse lawns.

One axiom I wholly support is this:
Freedom is the distance between Church and State.

If all of our civil liberties based on our freedoms are to be allowed to live and thrive, then religion must not play any part to any party when it comes to properties that are for and by the people of The United States of America.

[Atman]

1. We should just give up free speech for now, too. Y'know, for the GOP

They seem to have such a problem with it, why don't we just stop worrying about the abuses of the Patriot Act? Don't fight efforts to limit privacy...it just gets the GOP upset. We wanna be friends.


And if we keep on with that line of thinking, we'll need the GOP as friends, because they will completely control every aspect of our lives.

Great post, Nelly. Thanks.

[Frances]

2. My husband is old enough to remember saying the pledge

before the words under God were added!

[longship]

4. Me, too

That's why it's a very important issue for me.

[Chipper Chat]

7. I was 14 when it was changed.

The pledge was recited, standing by our desks, in school every morning. The principal came on the PA & announced the change. The homeroom teacher wrote the words on the chalkboard so we wouldnt fumble. We just did as we were told (silly, obedient us!). But I remember the two Indians (Piankishaw? maybe) in our room who still wore some indian garments, and I wondered what they thought of the words when they worshiped the great spirit or soumething like that. Otherwise, after saying the pledge at football games and at scout meetings, it soon became routine, although I've always thought the flow of the pledge was interrupted by the addition of "uhndrr gawd."

[Jack from Charlotte]

18. Do other countries have a pledge.....? I think the whole thing is sort of

odd. I mean, why should anyone in this coutry be required or expected to pledge allegiance to the country before every sports event?

[longship]

3. Thank you for saying this.

This is every bit as important an issue than if the court ruled e.g., that resricted "first amendment zones" are unconstitutional and that the entire country is a first amendment zone.

When we start setting aside Constitutional liberties for political expedience we start down the road to totalitarianism.

Thank you again for your very wise post.

[libertypirate]

5. I would like to amend your axiom

Freedom is the use of knowledge to overcome belief; we define this as understanding.

If belief is the best that you can do don't claim that you understand something you only have enough knowledge to believe.

[Whoa_Nelly]

9. Thanks for your amendment, libertypirate!

Much appreciated!

[Walt Starr]

6. Cool, what are you going to do when the Repukes win a bunch of

Senate seats next year and we lose the filibuster so we have no way of stopping the legislation that offically makes us a theocracy?

[Whoa_Nelly]

10. I will do all I physically and financially can to speak out and act on my

conviction that this is an issue that must not be allowed to be the blanket religious belief system that represents our nation.

What will you do?

[Walt Starr]

14. Blow this bullshit issue away by supporting the terminology

and work to get Dems elected, even though other Dems will do everything they can to insure that the Republicans win because the Republicans can easily paint Dems as people who "hate god".

[Caution]

12. Stand on principle against it?

Just like I stand against "under god"in the pledge.

[Walt Starr]

13. That and a buck might get you a cup of coffee

in the camp for non-believers.

:eyes:

[Caution]

17. Damned all those friggin principled forbears!

I guess those silly idealistic people like Jefferson and Madison and the other framers should have simply let it go for political expediency. Screw the Boston Tea Party, I think it woudl have been better to let that damned taxation without representation by the wayside because I don't drink tea.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Well, caving in to the repugs has worked so well so far.

Let's see.

'94
'98
2000
2002
2004

The "compromise" to save the now unusable filibuster.
The IWR vote.
NAFTA
Welfare "reform"

Yessiree, kissing their asses sure does pay off.

[Arkansas Granny]

8. Since I can remember when the phrase "under God" was added

to the pledge, this just doesn't seem like such a big deal to me. I'm all for separation of church and state, but I think the right wing fundies are using this to prove that anyone who wants it removed is a "Godless" and "immoral" liberal. It has very little to do with the wording of the pledge, IMO. It's just another instance of someone pushing their buttons and getting them all riled up with righteous indignation.

[hamerfan]

11. I'm with you, Whoa_Nelly!

Anyone born since 1951 has had to learn three versions of the Pledge of Allegiance! I have no links handy, but I recall most official references to a deity (In God We Tust, etc.) were rammed through by vocal minorities who would not take no for an answer. Worship has its place, but not in the government, or else we are too close to a theocracy for comfort!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. Being only 3 when it was changed I only remember it with under god

and when I was old enough to truly understand, I was in my teens, I stopped saying it and resented that it was there in the first place.

[DanCa]

19. I agree and I am a regular church goer

Simply put this country is supposed to be a great melting pot of all people and not just one nation under god. Also under which god? My god doesn't match the god worshipped by Murder Inc I also think that public prayer is rude at best and is a powder keg to more violence at worst.