Is anyone listening to the preacher giving the homily at the National

[Pirate Smile]

Mass?

He sounds great. Talking about poverty and race and words and rhetoric meaning nothing, it is the deeds that will matter.

I'm glad Bush is there. I hope he is really listening.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. Church words

are often very pretty.

[Pirate Smile]

4. They weren't really pretty. They were actually rather in your face

to Bush. I didn't hear it all but he told the story of the Good Samaritan. He was talking about the uselessness of words, that actions are all that will matter. It was quite blunt and to the point.

[DeepModem Mom]

9. It was indeed "in your face," to Bush and to the entire country...

to those who live in upper Manhattan with Harlem a few blocks away, for example, to those who live in McMansions separated completely from the reality that is life for way too many of our fellow Americans.

[speedoo]

14. Obviously you have not visited Harlem recently.

Some of the blocks are absolutely gorgeous... beautiful brownstones restored to their original glory. And not by "rich whites" either.

Your point is valid, but using Harlem as an example is way off the mark.

[DeepModem Mom]

17. Until recently, I lived in upper Manhattan (for 25 years) --

I used Harlem because it was one of the examples the speaker used.

[speedoo]

20. I see you are impressed with Bishop Jakes.

I am not. And if he used Harlem as an example, it only serves to reinforce my view that he is a phony.

I listened to a few minutes of his sermon. Nice words, but he is still a phony IMO.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. I did not know this

and I find it very exciting. The Harlem I knew as a child (growing up in the NYC metro area) was definitely a "don't take the A train at night" kind of place. I assumed that any recent Harlem Renaissance was funded by yuppies.

I teach the Harlem Renaissance (original one) to my kids at school (I'm an art teacher) and it was such a time of promise, and so completely obliterated by the Depression.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. "And not by "rich whites" either."

No....


By rich African Americans....

[TallahasseeGrannie]

16. EXCELLENT

he most not have gotten the memo, huh?

[DeepModem Mom]

2. This is what religion CAN be, folks. And this is how it was in the 60s...

as churchpeople like this marched arm in arm for social justice. I was moved to tears by this man.

[Windy]

6. It was TD Jakes

And he is great! Perfect words and no holds barred. I really think that he was directing his sermon to the administration sitting right in front of him, in part.

The best form of Christian religion exists in the African-American churches. IMHO

[Armstead]

3. TD Jakes is no Martin Luther King

He's a contemporary "Say the right thing but avoid any real pain or sacrifice" virtual leader.

[DeepModem Mom]

5. Is he not always in the spirit of the words he spoke just now? nt

[KittyWampus]

8. He's in the pocket of the GOP

[Pirate Smile]

I don't know who he is but he wasn't sucking up to Bush. It sounded

like a challenge.

Did the people who are dissing him actually hear what he said? That was all I was talking about in the OP.

[Armstead]

12. He is a "virtual" social activist

Martin Luther King actually took stands and put his butt on the line for civil rights and social and economic justice, and spoke truth to power, regardless of the personal consequences.

Jakes, on the other hand, spouts off platutudes that enable people to feel good without really looking at the root causes of problems in the real world.

[DeepModem Mom]

19. It may have been just words, but these words were aimed at...

getting at the root of social and economic injustice in our country.

[Tomee450]

33. Absolutely correct.

I am not at all impressed with Jakes. I understand that he is very conservative and very rich, a millionaire in fact. He is friendly with Bush. I don't trust preachers like Jakes. There are more and more black preachers who have become very wealthy while their congregations remain poor.

[TWiley]

7. They always lure ya in with sweet words.

Then they take ya right in the RECTORY if you get too close.

[DeepModem Mom]

11. Please, not all of them. But whatever. I'm out of this religious war. nt

[Pirate Smile]

15. Me too. Unbelievable. Are we the only ones that actually listened?

[DeepModem Mom]

22. The man is associated with organized religion --

some here have apparently had such horrific experiences within that, and that can indeed happen, or they feel so intellectually and morally superior to anyone with a good word for anything connected with religion, that they are completely close minded. I myself am an occasional churchgoer, a seeker after some kind of spirituality, and not a believer in much of Christian doctrine, but I object to "painting with a broad brush" on this issues, in the words used by a mod once, as he/she locked a thread here.

[Bridget Burke]

30. You should not have used the word "mass" in the OP!

The Catholic haters begin salivating when they hear certain key words.

The National Cathedral is run by the Episcopalian Diocese of DC & hs hosted many non-denominational gatherings. Martin Luther King gave his last sermon there.

Rev. Jakes is a friend of the Republicans, but I won't judge his sermon until I actually hear it.

[Pirate Smile]

32. I'm Catholic so my vocabulary just tends toward "mass" for a church

service. LOL.

I typed it up quickly because I didn't see anything posted about it yet. I just wanted to see if anyone else was watching it.

[flordehinojos]

10. i am so sick of people talking God, Talking compassion,Talking religiosity

I want that my relationship with God be a personal one--and let other people's relationship with God also be their own personal relationship. I don't want nobody's God thrown in my face, rubbed like salt in my wound, jammed down my throat, used to whitewash greed, crimes and killings.

let GOD be free!

[DeepModem Mom]

13. DId you hear the man speak?

[goclark]

23. Video Link of his speech Please

That would be so helpful.

Jakes is worshipped in the African American comunity.

I recall Bush visiting Jakes Shelter a few days ago.
Some at DU were saying that Jakes was right in the back pocket of Bush. I was praying that they were wrong.

If his sermon is what you all are saying, that would help so much.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I Enjoyed It...

It was a great sermon....

[Tomee450]

34. Don't be fooled by the "great sermon"

Some preachers are great orators. They can really stir people up but if you take a close look at them, they are not what they seem. I don't go to church as often because of what I've seen in the church. There are some preachers who are really caring but others nothing but greedy hypocrites. They encourage their members to contribute their money but when those members turn to the church for assistance,in many instances the Churches fail them miserably.

[DeepModem Mom]

25. Must run to an appointment, for which I'm going to be late! I hope...

someone will come up with a video, or audio, link, or even a transcript.

[goclark]

27. Video link somebody please , we want to

hear Jakes.

I noticed when they were all leaving the church, Jakes was the last minister to leave.

He walked by Bush and as far as I could tell, they did not shake hands.

[Pirate Smile]

28. I haven't been able to find anything yet. The AP articles states:

"Before Bush's remarks, Bishop T.D. Jakes, head of 30,000-member Potter's House church in Dallas, delivered a powerful sermon in which he called upon Americans to "dare to discuss the unmentionable issues that confront us" and to not rest until the poor are raised to an acceptable living standard.

"Katrina, perhaps, she has done something to this nation that needed to be done," Jakes said. "We can no longer be a nation that overlooks the poor and the suffering, that continues past the ghetto on our way to the Mardi Gras."

That is all I've found so far. He didn't sound like a Bush buddy in the sermon.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050916/ap_on_go_pr_wh/katrina_bush;_ylt=Alamy_H33_b0UlEfROx9n2ms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

I actually only heard it because I walked into a room with the TV left on CNN and he was in the middle of the sermon when I walked in the room. I wasn't planning on listening to the service.

[goclark]

29. Thanks a bunch for the update!

[flordehinojos]

35. no. i didn't. i am tired of sermonizing, false prophets, lying, spinning

hell storm and brim fire and all that crap.religion is not free anymore. it is being used by the bush brothers in oodles of ways and God is not free.

31. agree

so many people flaunt their religion and are condescending about it, way to stroke their own egos.

[Sapphire Blue]

26. 'Grab some black people who look like they might be preachers,' "

WHITE HOUSE LETTER

A Blow for Republicans

By Elisabeth Bumiller

From the political perspective of the White House, Hurricane Katrina appears to have damaged the carefully laid plans of Karl Rove to make inroads among black voters.

(excerpt)

One of Mr. Bush's prominent African-American supporters called the White House to say he was aghast at the images from the president's first trip to the region, on Sept. 2, when Mr. Bush stood next to Gov. Haley Barbour of Mississippi and Gov. Bob Riley of Alabama, both white Republicans, and praised them for a job well done. Mr. Bush did not go into the heart of New Orleans to meet with black victims.

"I said, 'Grab some black people who look like they might be preachers,' " said the supporter, who asked not to be named because he did not want to be identified as criticizing the White House.Three days later, on Mr. Bush's next trip to the region, the president appeared in Baton Rouge at the side of T. D. Jakes, the conservative African-American television evangelist and the founder of a 30,000-member megachurch in southwest Dallas.

Bishop Jakes, a multimillionaire and best-selling author, is to deliver the sermon this Friday at the Washington National Cathedral, his office said, where Mr. Bush will mark a national day of prayer for Hurricane Katrina's victims. The bishop's style of preaching is black Pentecostal - he roars and rumbles in performances that got him on the cover of Time magazine as "America's best preacher" in 2001. More important to Mr. Rove, he has become a vital partner in the White House effort to court the black vote.

Last week, the White House continued its political recovery effort among African-Americans through its network of conservative black preachers like Bishop Jakes. Many of them have received millions of dollars for their churches through Mr. Bush's initiative to support religious-based social services - a factor, Republicans say, in Mr. Bush's small increase in support among black voters, from 9 percent in 2000 to 11 percent in 2004.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,374285,00.html