Should we confiscate "excess" wealth to rebuild America?

[benburch]

By the time we Americans get control of our country from the PNAC Neo-cons, there won't be much left of it. Their looter regime will have borrowed against the treasury more money that the USA has ever collected in taxes in the prior two centuries, all of that money having been either squandered or siphoned into the pockets of Neo-con cronies.

I am wondering if we should not confiscate the "excess wealth" of all Americans worth more than 20 million dollars? No rich man, "busted" down to a "mere" 20 million dollars would be able to claim that he was suddenly made poor by the confiscation, nor would this effect small business or the working man. But it would be an end to hereditary family fortunes, and the wealth of the Bush** looters. And I would further suggest that we invade tax havens such as the Cayman Islands and simply seize all assets there without regard to who owns them or why.

Yes, this is extreme, but I am simply fed up with the looting of the treasury I am seeing in Iraq and in the Katrina cleanup. I am certain that the 200 Billion KKKarl Rove has been given for no-bid cost-plus contracts is gone as surely as if we had simply burned it.

Comments Welcome.

[Carolab]

1. I think there should be a massive stop loss on taxpaying.

This is ridiculous. They are ROBBING us blind.

Our tax money is one of the precious few levers we still have left.

If we stop paying taxes NOW, what will happen? They can't arrest EVERYONE!

[whatever4]

15. Actually...

At this point, with "national security", they can arrest anyone they want, for no reason, with no trial, and no freedom in sight. Are already doing such things.

We've seen that all the lies about keeping the truth hidden by this admin have ALL been cya and have NOT been about national security AT ALL. To keep us safe. As if. They keep themselves and their political careers "safe".

Can we even believe those opposed to their "system" (our idle discussion here, taken any further, gathering in groups, having meetings, making plans, holding protests, and we all know how well protesters are treated)will be any less a threat? Even just their tax system, something so innocent, is somethng they'll kill for. It's their own personal treasure chests. Isn't that the biggest risk they face, isn't money all they care about? Aren't any and all efforts against this administration (and who am I to say this is the only admit that's been this way, just because it is the worst one in my memory) seen as subversive, basically? Aren't they watching, recording, analyzing and cataloging the actions of EVERY subversive group?

Can we believe they aren't doing the very same things as the McCarthyism of old? Why would they not? They have more power, more and BETTER toys to play with, and an insane leader surrounded by more intelligent, greedy people. People who don't want to lose. Anything.

No. I have to politely disagree, they can arrest with impunity, and as far as "all" of us, it wouldn't actually take all of us. It only has to be a few. A family member attacked here, someone disappears there, and there will be control of many, many people. They've already shown us what they can do in New Orleans. Those Americans are being treated like prisoners in their own town.

Especially if the attacks come in subversive forms which are difficult to see. Like, say, a nation with all prisons so full, we exceed the numbers of every other nation in the world, both free ad not free, industrialized and not, looking at both per capita and sheer numbers. Hardly ever hear it in the news. We're number one, but they never seem to brag about it very much.

We have more people in prison in America than any other nation on earth, and more than half of them are for drug and drug-related convictions. Moralistic, killing us, and our nation doesn't even see it. Millions of lives damaged, by the law, and somehow it continues. Just too damned easy to control "the people"

Just my opinion, my bitter cynical, fed-up opinion, because our nation has wasted many generations of our own people, for nothing. For nothing at all, just greed and racism. We seem to practically run on the stuff.

[Veronicrat]

35. Oklaahoma city Bombing

one of our own did that

[Carolab]

39. But, friend, that is what the Boston Tea Party was about.

And, IMHO, it makes no difference if we keep playing along, being "good citizens" because they are taking away our jobs, our freedoms, and our country, ANYway.

[Bluerthanblue]

52. as I said to the Congressmen and Senators aides I

called last week, this country may think that the middle and lower classes are 'expendable' but we are not- we are the people who provide the cannon fodder for the rich to use to expand their empire.

How many of them would allow their prodgeny to be sacrificed for oil?
And power??? and who will clean their houses?? and service them???

Bad move on their part.

May take awhile, but it'll bite em in the butt eventually.

[Melodybe]

41. YES YES YES YES

[havocmom]

2. Just take away the legislated welfare for the rich & corporations,

make them pay for the Coast Guard, airports, and other services they are the primary users of and make them pay their share of taxes needed to bring the deficit down to zip and restore the surplus the treasury had before the dipshits stole the power and the $$.

Then, set the nation back on a decent path.

[NYCGirl]

3. No. Just repeal the tax cuts for the wealthy and close a few of the

tax loophole for corporations. That should do a lot.

[papau]

18. But I also like a "fair tax" - not sales but a 2% annual tax on Wealth

being added.

If the GOP insist on not taxing 95% of the income of the rich - namely the investment income - then a wealth tax is the only way to go - say with a $10 million per family member deduction.

[NYCGirl]

47. I don't. Easier than that, just remove some of the big tax loopholes, and

you'll get a lot more than 2%.

[Yupster]

50. Which ones are you thinking of?

I'm in the business so it's interesting to me.

[MercutioATC]

4. Until we live in a communist society, no.

...if we DO become a communist society, I'm moving elsewhere.

We SHOULD reexamine huge tax cuts to the wealthy, but this country's economic system is built on the ability to amass wealth. Confiscating money above some arbitrary amount is unconscionable.

[LincolnMcGrath]

13. Communism in theory, or Communist like China, USSR, etc?

[Veronicrat]

19. education=socialism

in case you dont realize it we have plenty of socialism in the us, just not enough of it, which is why areas like education arent working. american business doesnt need an educated american worker anymore, as it did 50 years ago
AND there is no incentive to get the poor & disenfranchised to vvote.

there was supposed to be no limit to amassing wealth to create Opportunity in this country.
why is it then whe a company fires 25,000 people it's stock price s rise and the top guys get more money?

you have to stop those knee-jerk reactions to "hot words" look behind them, or we are all just trained dogs.

& there is a salary cap in the national basketball association- so its not unconstitutional.

there should be a maximum wage- how many people do you know personally, including yourself who will EVER make more than 5 million a year?
what threat is it to you if there is a maximum wage. it really means your kids & grandkids would probably have jobs in this country one day.
We have to stop being trained like animals- will YOU ever see that much money?????

[Just Me]

Certain corporations have essentially confiscated OUR wealth,...

,...via abuse of their freedom/power to exploit US.

This isn't an either/or, fascism vs communism exploration.

Corporations, like citizens, must be subject to laws which limit abusive and/or exploitative behavior. Presently, corporations have been given entirely too much power to abuse our people, our nation, our resources and our domestic interests.

[klyon]

37. yes corporations have too much power

Corporations are run by people that use them to further their personal wealth. We can have companies that are win win but right now people are hiding behind them to gain personally without taking responsibility for selfishness and putting unseen costs on the commons.

KL

[cmdrxog]

38. And it is time to make them accountable

Allow no CEO to make more than x (say 30 maybe) times the salary and benefits of the lowest paid employee. This doesn't cap their earnings it just ensures that the labor of those that create their wealth is rewarded too.
Industries that provide needed services: power, water, building & repair of transportation, garbage removal and processing, banking, insurance, medical drug & equipment suppliers, among others need to have profit caps. Tax the excess 100%.
Tax work sent to cheap & slave labor nations, dollar for dollar would be a starting point.
I

[FyurFly]

20. I agree completely

If someone is going to “redistribute” the money I have worked my ass off for, I will feel free to “redistribute” hollow point rounds out of my rifle at whoever is taking my money. Rich folks (no, I’m not rich by any means) need to pay their fair share of taxes, but redistribution would start riots and a civil war that America would never recover from.

[newyawker99]

44. Hi FyurFly!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[tx_dem41]

22. Whew....your subject title scared me for a second, M ATC.

Much relieved to read the rest.

[Kansas Wyatt]

46. Bush has no problem....

Selling out the United States of America to Communist China, to pay for his Fascism and war on 'We The People.'

Let's just go back to the original intent of income taxes on individuals and corporations, and make everything retroactive and due in full for each deviated year since it's introduction. Of course, if many have been paying too much for years, then that must be refunded as well. That way, everything is FAIR.

Same end result, and Communist China will not own the United States of America.

[leftofthedial]

5. we should determine the current true median net worth

and immediately confiscate all wealth in excess of that and redistribute it to bring every American to that level. Then, we should use the balance to rebuild the infrastructure of the nation (including the Katrina rebuilding) and bring it up to modern standards.

it's a modest proposal.

[MercutioATC]

40. Bullshit.

We should tax to ensure a safety net and let people earn what they will.

[Perky]

54. Does that include Ben & Jerry and the guys who started google?

My God... why do so many of fail to understand that Being a Democrat is not the same as being a Marxist. I do not begrudge anybody were smart enough to fairly earn huge profits so long as it is not on the backs of the poor or by unscrupulous means.

Should the folks at Google be penalized for coming up with a great idea?

No they need in excess of $20M, perhaps not....but why do you think the government should have the right to redistribute the excess to the poor. There are far better uses of tax dollars we have:Education and health care.

What would you expect the poor to do with the largess? Invest it?

Are you going to take their money when they become the Uber-rich?

[leftofthedial]

61. what you call failure

others call virtue

[Occulus]

6. Is money property?

Can we confiscate property in time of national disaster?

There's your answer.

[lyonn]

12. cleverly put kgfnally. nt

[TahitiNut]

7. I think the borders should be closed to stop off-shoring of capital.

Capital raised in the US should stay in the US. Sadly, all of the leashes on capital have been discarded.

[Modem Butterfly]

8. Let's tax religion

If religious organizations want to get involved in politics so deeply, let them pay their entry fee just like the rest of us.

[Just Me]

9. We should confiscate monies acquired through exploitation of,...

,...war and/or natural disaster and/or manipulation of the market, all of which constitute an unacceptable abuse of the public welfare and national interests.

Moreover, the reins MUST be tightened via appropriate legislation on those who have engaged in such exploitation including FAIR taxation policies (punitive style) and clear limits on such activities with severe penalties (incentive via punishment). These exploiters have been given entirely too much slack and, as a result, have abused their positions in our country and in the global community.

[lyonn]

10. $200,000,000,000. !!

Sheesh, that would make Any U.S. city beautiful and rich. From what I hear that can only happen if the poor are eliminated and especially the black element. Who needs a poor part of town.

No, the very wealthy will get business deals the rest of us only dream about with our businesses. They will get no tax increases only reduced taxes, like, get rid of the Estate tax. They have no shame.

Let's all pray. It seems to work for bush & co. Wake up america. Who knew so many americans were so stupid or blind?

Once again, speaking to the choir. Venting ---

[Veronicrat]

14. Praying is so passive, Bush would rather us pray than vote

I often wonder about the garden of eden- you know what kind of god would want his followers to be so ignorant-
"eat of any tree but the tree of knowledge-" i guess an intelligent population asks difficult questions, and demands answers that god would rather not answer.

[lyonn]

24. Amen, "tree of knowledge" is a no no. nt

[Veronicrat]

11. Enough is enough --ITS TIME FOR THE MAXIMUM WAGE

no one needs to be worth more than $20 million I agree
it is ridiculous that the no limit to upward weatlh has contributed to the losing of jobs & manufacturing in this country.
Agreed an end to greed. You can only sit on one throne at time anyway.

[lyonn]

25. Veronicrat, I agree somewhat with what you believe, but,

I don't object to someone having more than 20 mil. That is the american dream. But, there is a fair share thing that should be factored in. FICA takes a bunch from those at the very bottom, those that don't make enough to pay taxes above that. But, this govt. thinks the very wealthy pay too much. How did they get there? Many through hard work and good luck. Many others worked hard and still failed and are punished by this bunch controlled by big corps. There is where I have a problem. Big corps can make the rules, not the struggling smaller businesses and ordinary struggling computer programers, etc. Send their jobs to India, that's real good for big corps.

We must not assume those making many millions need to be limited as a general rule.

Welcome to DU.

[Veronicrat]

26. american dream is to make more than $20 million a year?

let us have a discussion on the American dream.

is it to make unlimited weath? I thought it was to have a decent home and job. To know where your family was, that they were safe. that we had clean air & water. That our kids would get a good education (& yes public education is socialism, not a dirty word)

you know the money supply is fixed!

you dont "make money" you get it off of someone else.

if one person is making 25 million a year that is how many folks not making
$25,000?--and they are not indeed.
Companies "outsource" read: pay cheaper labor, so the people at the top make more & more money. If the American dream means that most folk dont have jobs so they can be rich- sorry
ain't much of a dream.

And you KNOW THIS! you said so yourself- its just knee-herk reaction to any limits on wealth-
we are well-trained I am afraid.

[lyonn]

30. Just a figure of speech, 20 mil.

Kinda like, anyone can be president. ha ha

[blogslut]

16. How about

we just make corporations pay their taxes instead of allowing them to hide assets offshore?

[tx_dem41]

17. By all means...if you want to be as fascistic as you think Bush is.

I am all for a progressive tax system. That is a far, far cry from the Federal Government confiscating wealth.

[Veronicrat]

21. progressive tax system

that would be great to have atruly progressive tax system
not give tax cuts to the wealthy

the richest 400 people in the world have more than the 4 million poorest

anyone know the figures for this country in particular?

[Raksha]

43. Not to a libertarian it isn't!

Re >>I am all for a progressive tax system. That is a far, far cry from the Federal Government confiscating wealth.<<

Sorry to bring that up, but I was just arguing with a couple of libertarians on another forum. They are always griping about "confiscatory taxes." They think taxation is legalized theft, even when (or especially when?) someone less fortunate is the beneficiary of federal tax dollars. I wish they could see this thread--it would give 'em nightmares for the next month!

[cascadiance]

23. We should restore temporarily the 90%+ top marginal rates of the 60's

that were pulled back to 70%+ by the Kennedy administration. Perhaps also have some excess capital gains taxes as well for amounts above a certain amount to allow us to collect some "delayed" taxes from those who accumulated all of their "excess" wealth during the 1980-2000 time period, and not just penalize those that are "currently" making high incomes.

I don't think we should make these top marginal rates permanent, but I think temporarily they will help get us to pay down this hugely accumulated debt by the people that have benefitted most over the last 20 years from this imbalanced system towards their favor. Call these "temporary" higher margins a "corrective" tax that is earmarked towards paying down the debt, and not for new deficit spending too.

We certainly need to restore a lot of the safety net spending levels (and other essential domestic areas like FEMA, etc.) back to manageable and not catastrophic levels that these recent administrations have put in place.

I think the top marginal rates of over 90% were probably left in place too long before they were scaled back in the 60's, but I do think that we need to restore these to restore wealth balance before we have another recreation of the depression of the earlier part of this century when the wealth gap was similar ratio-wise to what it is now.

We need to find ways of helping America not put so much dependence on just their housing as their investment vehicle for the future. We can't engage in draconion measures there, or we'd really destroy our economy, but hopefully something that will help maintain people's investment values that were made there, but somehow scale back the rising prices that make owning a home less and less of an achievable dream for the average American. At some point when people's borrowing and earning limits are reached, we might see a housing crash that will really get us started on this depression.

[catmandu57]

27. Absofuckinglutely

How many lifetimes does it take to spend a billion dollars? We need income redistribution, and we need to spend tax dollars for the good of the people.
we need to build roads, bridges, water and sewage plants, we need people to know that if they get sick they'll be taken care of. We need an education system that works, one that you can go as far as you can in without going bankrupt to get there.

We don't need uber rich piggies snuffling up to the govt. trough gorging themselves and their fucking heirs to the twentieth generation.

we need to pay teachers more than someone who can hit a baseball 430 feet 30 times a year, or anything to do with a ball for that matter, it's a fucking shame as long as Americans are living and dying on the streets, that thats not the number fucking one priority, making sure that the least are taken care of.

Tax the fucking rich, tax the fucking churches, tax the fucking corporations that have raped us.

[ComerPerro]

28. No! Lets give them money by cutting taxes for them yet again!

That's a sure cure for the Blues!

:sarcasm:

[Qibing Zero]

29. You damn commie

Those people earned all that money fair and square!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Veronicrat]

31. the glow of reflected money

it's like a joke isnt it- to call someone a commie and they freak out

another great brainwash of the american people- I think wanting to have a greater middle class is not a communist thing. but when the discussion gets to redistribution of wealth, and real trickle down, then someone fires off that ancient put-down. like
Senator joe mccarthy, a brilliant man by anyone's stand point
(sarcasm)

& "those" people who earned their billions fair & square, like the people of wal-mart, use cheap labor and unfair working practices.
mcdonalds?? haliburton?? enron???
the gap betwween CEO & the average worker is 434 to one
It i not an inalienable right to rip off the great diverse american people for the benefit of a few. But this will take a lot of grass roots efforts.

that is the reason to have poor folks you know, keeps the wages down

Please enlighten me as to someone out there really being worth their 25Mill plus a year

your kids teacher, or your stockbroker- who is more important to society?
& who gets paid more?
it's our values too you know- we defend the right to be rich- reflected money- we live in the glow of reflected money!

[yankeedem]

32. Americans will riot first

This is a country where people making $6/hr will fight for the right for their boss to make $10 million a year. The rich have gotten the poor to carry their water before, there is no reason to think it won't continue.

[libertypirate]

33. I think it was durring wartime but there once was a 95% income tax

I know it didn't last long but a couple of years of that 95% tax on that fortune list of richest Americans might be what we need.

Fuck them they already have enough

[Wizard777]

34. Sure! We Confiscate money and property from the poor all the time. n/t

[sierrajim]

36. Is that in cash, stocks, and bonds

Or all assets like real estate, property, intellectual property, etc. etc?

[lonestarnot]

42. Yes! bust it down! I am all fed up with this 1/2 of 1 percent at the top

slimebags that thing the world owes them everything in it. They want classwar and I am ready to give it back to them in their face.

[OneGrassRoot]

45. Can I have an AMEN?!!!!

I haven't even read the entire OP nor the replies yet, but I was thinking the same thing this morning. The disparity is intolerable (to those of us not in that small percentage, of course).

I'd love to see some of these millionaire/billionaire types (Ted Turner, Soros, Oprah, etc.) band together to show the government how it should be done, and take it upon themselves to do something about the $$ crisis here. Of course, they would also need to demand oversight of how the funds are used....THAT'S a given.

kicked and recommended

[Gold Metal Flake]

48. Nationalize oil production. Seize the assets of the oil bandits.

Sieze the assets and accounts domestic and abroad of Halliburton, KBR etc.

ALL domestic mercenary corporations will be dissolved.

Install Robert Kennedy Jr. as head of EPA, arm it and fund the hell out of it.

Cease all mountain top coal production.

Fund the development of new-tech concentrator solar enery production. I understand not many here are familiar with the new techniques, but we have tremendous production ability now. Trust me on this.


Just for a start.

[NorthernSpy]

49. given that our laws provide for compulsory military service...

... I've always wondered about people who agree at least in principle with the practice of drafting men into the military, but who think that even a modest expropriation of the rich is "unconscionable". Why is it so much easier to countenance forcing a poor man to give up his life for the good of the nation, than forcing a rich man to give up part of his fortune for the good of the nation?

[alarimer]

51. Raise taxes on the wealthiest

Make sure they pay their fair share and end corporate welfare. If we did that, there would be no need to redistribute wealth- if we could get everyone to pay their fair share. A big if I know.

[lonestarnot]

53. Only 2 more!

[petron]

55. Is it time for armed rebellion?

Sadly, that's not a sarcastic question; it's a partially rhetorical question. Whatever the case, something should be done.

Edited to add: Distribution should be without loop-holes and money hiding schemes and should be fair all the way up the income scale. If you think it's already fair, you need your lobotomy reversed.

[blindpig]

56. nobody needs that kind of money

and nobody deserves it either as long as working people are paided so miserably for providing the goods and services that support our society. Fuck them, they have utterly disreguarded the social contract that allows their for existance. Even the Roman patricians, the models for our ruling class, understood this and provided generously for the commonweal, often in fact competing in generosity. These Social Darwinists of today show less sophistication and comprehension of their position than their bloodyhanded predecessors so consumed with hubris are they. Up against the wall.

[tlsmith1963]

57. Take Social Security Away From the Rich

I mean, they can support themselves. Why do they need it? It should be there for the middle class & the poor. This would help, I think.

Tammy

[Cleita]

60. Very bad idea. When you don't include everyone in a social

program, they resent paying into it and start chipping away at the benefits from the people who do need it.

What we need to do is lift the income cap so that the rich pay their fair share into it percentagewise. This way if Bill Gates pays 15% of his income into Social Security, why renege him getting some of it back? What he gets back is only a pittance to what he paid into it.

[papau]

63. Correct - very bad idea - result would be pension becomes "welfare"

Much better is to extend Social Security Benefit calculation rules (the 15% factor on the high end money) to all income - wages and investment income, and then have a "payroll tax" on all income, wages plus investment income, the latter investment income "payroll tax" via the current Social Security adjustment section on the 1040

[Cleita]

58. We don't have to confiscate it. We do need to take back the

tax cuts to get the money back. Thirty percent FIT with no loopholes on all income of the top thirty percent of the wealthiest Americans until the debt is paid off.

Then we need to tax and fine those corporations like Halliburton because they are the ones who have benefitted from this illegal cash windfall and I think it is illegal. So whatever the SEC can throw at them in the way of fines should be good and we should tax these companies for doing business here while registered elewhere.

Finally, if we get the entire Bush administration to trial for war crimes RICO and whatever else we can convict them of, part of their sentencing should be a confiscation of a large part of their estates. I know we won't be able to get all of it because most of it is probably stashed away overseas in numbered and anonymous accounts. But we may be able to get a lot of it anyway. This is what the Phillipines did to the Marcos. So they took what was in the Phillipines although it seems Imelda is still quite wealthy.

[KG]

59. works for me.

how much money does one man need, anyway?

[porphyrian]

62. Bastille Day Looming

I wouldn't expect things to continue as is for too much longer. Neglected levees are breaking all over, and there's more to come. What an exciting time to live.

[Massacure]

64. There is no such thing as excess wealth.

If a person has enough work ethic to earn a billion dollars, then he deserves it. However, we need to get rid of free wealth: IE $87,000 toilet seats from Halliburton.