You know what the problem is with this country?

[Cleita]

We can't fire our elected officials until there is an election. We have to rely on other elected officials to do it for us. So if Congress doesn't start impeachment proceedings we can't do anything. It puts the foxes in charge of the henhouse. I think this sort of immunity encourages corruption on all levels of government because there is very little accountability for the actions of those elected officials.

I think there should be a special court, with a judge and a bi-partisan jury of ordinary citizens, where we can bring up grievances about our elected officials and proof of why they should be removed from office prior to elections. The accusations of course would have to be about very grave crimes like negligent homicide and very deep corruption. The court would have the final say of course as to whether the crimes warrant action like arrests and trials.

It needs a certain amount of regulation so we don't end up with the Darryl Issa recall fiasco of Governor Grey Davis in California, or the Repubs would be trying to remove Democratic officials all the time. But we really need something to act on. Most of us, including about half of the Republicans who voted for Bush, now agree that he needs to go, yet we have to sit by wringing our hands not able to do anything, while our nation is gradually flushed down the toilet.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cleita]

2. You mean like riots?

I don't think that's a good solution today.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pitohui]

19. it is illegal to advocate overthrow of usa gov't

i'm just sayin

this thread is walking a thin line, less than this got the fed's attention in the 60s & 70s

[Cleita]

22. He wasn't advocating the overthrow of the government. He was

just recounting the history of what the founding fathers thought. However, yes you are right. We probably shouldn't say anymore about it for prying eyes to get the wrong impression.

[Syncronaut Seven]

24. Agent Mike! Agent Mike! You promised me my own file cabinet!

Agent Mike! Contact me immediately! I have information regarding high crimes and treason at the highest levels of government!

I figured you'd be interested, Plus I'd like to talk to you about that Michael Brown background check. Oh yea, and Leonard Peltier.

Bring Tequila.

[Sandpiper]

27. Where did I advocate the overthrow of the US Government?

My comments were purely for historical perspective.


For myself, I don't even own a gun.

[Qibing Zero]

8. Yep,

else they wouldn't have elmininated the people from the system of checks and balances. It makes no sense at all. If they had such distrust for government, why would they only make it answer to itself? Did they really think that each branch could remain that far removed from the other?

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. Actually, we have "problems", plural.

And the election cycle/impeachment process is pretty damned far down on the list of those problems, right now.

And as to the main thrust of your post: our system of government needs a total overhaul, really. We'd be better off with a parliamentary system, in the European manner, with a no-confidence vote to dismiss an incompetent government, and proportional representation rather than winner-take-all elections. Which would require calling for a new Constitutional convention, but, really, our current system is so damned flawed there's no reason NOT to get rid of it except for stubbornness and tradition. And it would certainly work better and be rather more streamlined than your idea, I think. (to say nothing of being more democratic.)

[BlueEyedSon]

4. No 1: money in politics

[Spider Jerusalem]

7. "This foreign policy has been brought to you by Exxon-Mobil."

Corporate influence on politics is at the root of a good many of our problems, certainly.

[astonamous]

10. Big Business owns our government

And only the rich can afford to run for office. I also think there are too many lawyers involved.

Trudy

[Cleita]

6. I just want accountability of our elected officials.

Our government is so corrupt now because they don't really have to answer to the people for their crimes. They won't go to prison and they will get richer on the backs of the poor and underprivileged.

[Spider Jerusalem]

9. And it's been corrupt for over a century, more or less.

With greater corruption in some eras than others. But the corruption and lack of accountability are nothing especially new. The system itself is deeply flawed and imperfect; if you stop to think about it, there's a good reason the US is the ONLY country in the world with its particular form of government; it doesn't work out that well in the long run.

[opihimoimoi]

11. Be aware of the 3rd Congress shit...they got it so one can be tried for

Treason.....

[Cleita]

13. Their definition of treason, no doubt.n/t

[opihimoimoi]

14. Cleita, be aware my dear, you are too valuable in this fight for ourNation

Sending wine and roses, lobsters and smoked ribs.... enjoy...

:toast:

[Cleita]

15. Thanks Opi.

:-) I will enjoy.

[Spider Jerusalem]

20. Eh.

I'm not advocating treason, or saying anything treasonous. Don't see how calling for a new constitutional convention could be construed that way, really. (Thomas Jefferson thought all laws and constitutions should be replaced every 19 years, which is certainly a bit more radical than what I suggested.) And I know history well enough to know that in almost any epoch corruption tends to be more the norm than an aberration; Credit Mobilier, Teapot Dome, Watergate, Iran-Contra, u.s.w.

[Cleita]

12. It looks to me like it's heading for collapse unless some

heroic leaders come foward to save it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. Maybe not "collapse".

The US is certainly about to lose the position of global preeminence it has enjoyed for over half a century, thanks to geopolitical and economic shifts, but that needn't necessarily mean collapse. Realignment, at the least. The British managed to do okay after their empire fell. And America's survived incompetence and knavery on a massive scale before; the country made it through the Buchanan, Grant and Harding presidencies, after all.

But we have to save ourselves, you know. Waiting for a saviour to appear astride a white horse, ready to lead the charge, as it were, seems a bit passive. Remember, America is what we make it; the leaders are the people who take the credit.

And if there are enough voices for change, then a leader will appear.

[Cleita]

17. But don't you agree that we are forced to be passive?

There is no power for the people except in their single vote and if that vote is compromised, as there is gathering evidence of in the last two presidential elections, then we have no power at all.

This has to change IMHO.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. There DOES need to be a measure of accountability...

and there should be Federally-mandated, uniform electoral guidelines that specify at the least a paper trail if not paper ballots.

For some reason I can't help but be reminded of Patrick Henry's opinion of the Constitution: "I like it not; it squints toward monarchy." Given the erosion of the checks and balances designed to prevent an overly powerful executive, and the results of that erosion, I don't know that he wasn't far off.

[garybeck]

18. the one biggest problem: electronic voting and election fraud

[Cleita]

21. Yeah, we need to set up an organization to demand that

the touchscreen electronic machines not be used in any future elections and that hand counts by both parties verify any totals that might come from electronic voting machines like scanners. We have to demand this.

[garybeck]

25. there are already several organizations trying to do this

everyone needs to get involved or nothing will change. our democracy is dead and we must bring it back to life.

Get informed, get involved:
http://election.solarbus.org

[Cleita]

26. Thanks for the link.

I will look into it and probably get involved if it's something I can do.

[titoresque]

28. yes, and WHY are we still pretending

that there will be real "elections"?!
I've asked this question in so many threads I cannot even remember now and no one will answer this.

[Cleita]

29. I for one don't believe we will have free elections unless we

get some real reforms happening.