Eight Worldly Sins from Gandhi and his grandson- what ails us..

[Bluerthanblue]

Just read this excerpt from Arum Gandhi, about his grandfather, while listening to Norah Jones sing "I think it's gonna rain"-

""Materialism," Grandfather said, "has an inverse relationship with morality. When one increases the other decreases." It is obvious that materialism today is in the ascendancy while morality has been consigned to the waste bin. Capitalism, materialism, market economy, the pursuit of one’s goals, and the right to democratic privileges are wonderful goals but decidedly harmful when overindulged.

For any society to be cohesive, rather than corrosive, we have all got to come together to knit a strong fabric. We are almost obsessively concerned about our rights in a democracy, but not all of us are willing to share the responsibility of making democracy healthy and viable.

Grandfather taught me what he called the "Seven Sins of the World." They are: Wealth without Work,
Pleasure without Conscience,
Knowledge without Character,
Commerce without Morality,
Science without Humanity,
Worship without Sacrifice,
and Politics without Principles.

Recently, I added the eighth "sin"—
Rights without Responsibilities."
(Arum Gandhi)

[Syncronaut Seven]

1. Looks like we've blown it on all eight counts

People think I'm insane because these are the very values I espouse. It gets pretty lonely sometimes.

[Bluerthanblue]

4. people often

cry 'insane' when they feel convicted- I know the loneliness, but we're in very good company SS. These are the values worth living for- and striving for, as long as we are able.

Peace,
blu

[IChing]

2. Thanks

I remember reading the "seven sins" from some of his readings
but I like the one the grandson added.

[Bluerthanblue]

5. thanks, me too, especially

in light of these days we are living through.

Peace,
blu

[IChing]

3. dupe n/t

[StellaBlue]

6. Re: wealth without work

I find it very interesting indeed that the same people who cry about the 'welfare queens' and the 'lazy poor' and the 'druggie tree-huggers' and all the other social-economic drop-out stereotypes with which we are all familiar are also the same people who most benefit from the oligrachy's social promotion racket.

Only, for the first group, the various types of 'drop-outs', there IS NO WEALTH. While for the socially promoted, elitist, entitle-complex-infused oligarchs and their wannabes, well... you get the idea.

This is why I am in favor of no income tax for the poor and hardworking, and steeply increasing income tax for the elite classes and their followers. NO ONE CAN MORALLY CLAIM MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. NO ONE WHO INHERITS MONEY DESERVES IT.

Although it does piss me off to no end that I will be taxed to death myself on any pittance of an inheritance I get from my lower-middle-class parents, while the likes of * get BILLIONS without needing or earning it.

[Bluerthanblue]

7. That one jumped out at me too,

because I was trying to figure out how to put bush's life into the 'average' persons shoes. He'd either be in jail, homeless, or dead were he not the son of someone of wealth and power.
Every enterprise he's been a part of has gone under- And he's escaped the concequences of his actions, as only those with money, power and connections can.
Kerry, on the other hand, DID work hard as an attorney in Mass. not relying, or needing to fall back on his family for support. My parents are dead, I'm the sole support of my sons,- and I have chosen to give what little I have, to them, now- while I'm alive to see them make the best of what life they have. They've lived through hell with me, and are really grounded, kind, and generous souls. The 'karma' has come round for them- and they deserve some ground to stand on as they work their way through this world. It's not much, but I'm not going to 'be' there for them as long as I wish.- And they will have to struggle to keep from losing this little farm, especially as dark as the future looks.

They've worked since they were old enough to walk.
I have hope for them.

[StellaBlue]

8. I agree

And I think assets up to a reasonable point should be heritable. I haven't decided on that yet.

As for myself, though my parents don't have much, I tell them to spend it all and use it all up while they're alive, because they've worked for it! But since we are not rich, I never assume I would get anything, and thus I have neither an entitlement complex nor a disappointment lurking. :)

[delete_bush]

10. Unless I'm missing something, I believe the

estate tax kicks in after $1.5 million. Which means if your definition of lower middle class is the same as mine, you will not be "taxed to death" on whatever inheritance you receive. Some states also look for estate tax revenue, tax planning can often mitigate this. Notwithstanding your belief that no one who inherits money deserves it in the first place.

As far as no income tax for the poor, the bottom quintile is responsible for less than 1% of income tax receipts, the next quintile is around 3.3%, so you should be happy to know that the working poor pay little to no federal income tax.

[StellaBlue]

11. But

I would consider, say, my mother, 'poor'. Compared to *co.

Lifelong secretary; no health insurance; no pensio; no savings; lives in an apartment; drives old cars; never takes vacations; never buys stylish or trendy anything; always barely making ends meet. I would call that the working poor. But since she makes about $26,000 a year... paying taxes out of proportion to what she gets back or can ever hope to get back in services. Doesn't qualify for any social programs (Medicare, etc.), according to her.

I am not totally sure what I think about the entire tax system, granted... but there is no reason ANYONE needs millions and millions of dollars. No one can work that hard. Dick Cheney, even if he really was doing everything his official bio would credit him with, still wouldn't be working 1,000,000,000 times harder than my mother. That was my main point.

It's immoral. Especially as long as there are people, anywhere in the world, living in poverty.

[Bluerthanblue]

13. much better said

than me StellaBlue-
Same thought, better articulation. Thanks-

[rosesaylavee]

19. Right on, Stella Blue

And there are many more of your mother working without healthcare and other benefits, esp no 5 week vacation than there are of the wealthy small percent who has all of the above and the power.

To me, we are heading toward a revolution when there will be a tipping point of angry workers tired with the 'way things are'. It has happened before and it will happen again. I just hope it is bloodless.

[Bluerthanblue]

12. anything over a hundred thousand dollars

is beyond my comprehension....
And, unless I have some long lost relative, who is hidden VERY well in the branches on my family tree, and is wealthy (not very likely) there won't be any taxes on anything I leave behind, hopefully, no outstanding bills either- got a living will, and dnr's no heroics- no bancrupting a future for the remains of a life lived hard, and fast.

I don't have a problem with children inheriting something from their folks- but not to the extent that they lose sight of making their own way in the world, and living lives of 'enough' but not excess, in any area.
I pay income tax, and I'm below poverty level, it may not be much, but when seen in comparison to what I have coming in, it's considerable.
No 'offshore' accounts or tax shelters for me.

And I don't begrudge anyone some of what I have- because I DO have more than most of the people in this world do- and that truth is very sad.

[tblue37]

18. Just as we now (supposedly) recognize inherited power as

inappropriate to democratic governance, in the sense of denying power to royalty and the hereditary nobility, we must someday come to recognize vast inherited wealth as equally inappropriate to democratic governance. Great inherited wealth is essentially equivalent to inherited power.

Unfortunately, here in the US we no longer even seem to understand that power should not be inherited. I think this error is based on our culture of celebrity worship, which is driven by popular entrtainment and the mass media. The power of name recognition combined with the power of inherited wealth has produced an oligarchic class that functions pretty much the way the useless yet rapacious aristocracy did in feudal times.

[StellaBlue]

24. !!!!!!!!!!

Yes!!!!

I keep saying in mixed company, 'Isn't it funny how, in a country of almost 300 million people, we can't do better than to have a father and son as president within 8 years of each other?'. I usually accompany this with a deer-in-headlights look which only other progressives seem to recognize is totally sarcastic.

[Nothing Without Hope]

9. I hadn't seen that before, thanks. We need to be looking to the great

nonviolent leaders for inspiration and guidance in these terrible times:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

14. Thank you for...

...sharing this.

http://www.karlandkinggeorge.com/Like_Rays_of_Hope.html

[blogslut]

15. A can of gasoline and a book of matches

That's what I'm leaving my kid.

I've been through the deaths of both my parents and while they had very little, it was enough for my greedy brother to make the rest of us sibs hate him.

[snot]

16. honey, pls get help. nt

[blogslut]

17. the ignore feature

is very cool

edit: nasty reply removed

[H2O Man]

20. "The Way to do

is to be." -- Lao-Tse

"People should not consider so much what they are to do, as what they are." -- Master Eckhart

"The less you are and the less you express of your life -- the more you have and the greater is your alienated life." -- Karl Marx

These three quotes are found at the beginning of Erich Fromm's "To Have or To Be?"

[all.of.me]

21. wow, these are wonderful.

it is all about being, not doing.

[glitch]

23. Do be do be do - Sinatra

Gotta be both.

[ignatius 2]

22. Wealth without work and politics without principle seem to be tailor

made for our current pResident.

Of course pResidentin' is "hard work" you gotta read all them speeches and bat your eyes at the right time and squeeze out a tear or two when you menton some poor bastard who got blown away in my war..whoa, I wish I was back at the ranch with the rest of the rattlesnakes just ridin' my bike and readin' about that goat.

[satya]

25. "Politicians have ceased to be servants of the people...we, the people,

are content with this because we simply want to enjoy our rights without responsibilities—the eighth sin of humanity."

A Life of Faithful Integrity

In the final analysis it is not how many times one prays but how eager one is to imbibe it.
An interview with Arun Gandhi, grandson of the Mahatma, by Ann E. Helmke

<snip>

Arun Gandhi: Words without action and actions without discipline is a dangerous concoction. This is the nature of politics. My grandfather regarded politics without principle as one of the seven sins of human society. Politicians have ceased to be servants of the people. They have become masters, taken control of our lives. They decide the fate of a nation and its people. We, the people, are content with this because we simply want to enjoy our rights without responsibilities—the eighth sin of humanity.

How can we utter the words terrorism and nonviolence in the same sentence? That signifies the duality in human life. We wouldn’t appreciate right if we did not understand wrong. This is why Gandhi said, "Only those who have experienced the worst form of violence would appreciate the value of nonviolence." However, because of our ignorance and our arrogance, instead of looking at the roots of terrorism and how we feed it by our own actions, we took the easy way out. Blast the terrorists off the face of the earth, no matter if we have to sacrifice our own and our perceived enemy’s innocent lives in the process. Anger can motivate people to do good or bad things. The sheer audacity of the terrorists moved the nation to anger, and our politicians exploited this by promising to eradicate the evil. Being introspective, trying to get to the truth, changing our relationships, and letting greater compassion take over requires the kind of moral and spiritual strength that we are lacking.

We accuse the conservatives and fundamentalists of wearing their religion on their sleeves, but I notice this is a universal habit. It is so common to find people talking about being a Christian peacemaker or a Christian peace group or a Christian soup kitchen or a Christian children’s fund. I never heard Grandfather talk in terms of being a Hindu peacemaker or working for Hindu peace. Why is it necessary to make the world know one is a Christian?

<snip>

...more

Thanks, Bluerthanblue, for this very timely and thought-provoking post!