Why is the use of the word "Refugees" considered so taboo?

[Maine Mary]

Aren't the folks in NOLA refugees? In other words, are they not people seeking refuge?

(BTW-I'm sorry if this may have been discussed before-it's been awhile since I've been online)

[Kenroy]

1. I thought the same thing you did

until I looked it up and found that the word implies people fleeing from another country. It was first used to describe the Huguenots who fled France for England.

Almost all dictionaries have the sense of "exile" or "foreign" in the word. I was unaware of that until the latest brouhaha.

[Baconfoot]

2. DA: I haven't found a dictionary yet where that was the ONLY meaning

-Devil's Advocate

[Kenroy]

4. Why would you expect to find a

dictionary that has only one meaning?

What is the PRIME definition in most of the dictionaries you looked at?

[displacedtexan]

19. From Webster's...

One entry found for refugee.

Main Entry: ref·u·gee

Pronunciation: "re-fyu-'jE, 're-fyu-"
Function: noun
Etymology: French réfugié, past participle of (se) réfugier to take refuge, from Latin refugium
: one that flees, especially : a person who flees to a foreign country or power to escape danger or persecution
- ref·u·gee·ism /-"i-z&m/ noun

[Laughing Mirror]

27. Correct

Call them refugees sounds like you're calling them foreigners, but this is their country too. That is why the survivors who fled the disaster, no matter where they wind up, do not like being called refugees.

[cantstandbush]

40. It means people seeking refuge in a foreign country. Certainly

many RW would like to think of the poor as having not country, especially this one, but most of those evacuated from Katrina are our very own citizens and therefore not "refugees."

[KitchenWitch]

3. I guess if I were one of the displaced people from Katrina

I would probably feel insulted by refugee, because it implies fleeing from one's country. I think evacuee (yes, harder to pronounce) is a more appropriate term.

[Maine Mary]

6. Oh please

Did you have to throw the insult in there? (yes, harder to pronounce)

That said, I understand your point. Thanks.

[KitchenWitch]

7. It sincerely was not meant as an insult

Refugee rolls quite smoothly off the tongues of the news anchors and "reporters", evacuee, on the other hand, does not...

I sincerely did not mean to insult you...really.

:cry:

[Maine Mary]

8. Thanks for clearing that up

"i" sorry too. :-)

[klyon]

16. to me refugee implies not returning while evacuee is temporary

I do not like the word refugee but no one I mentioned it to seemed to care so I let it go.

KL

[xultar]

5. The black folk jumped the gun. NOLA displaced an others are political

regugees. We coulda used it. But we fuckes it up.

[marions ghost]

9. the focus on this word is weird to me...

I'm a writer and usually like word precision, but I also think the intent is more important than strict word definition. While I understand the argument that 'refugee' is not precisely the same as 'evacuee,' I don't think most people are aware of that and it really doesn't matter a whole lot. Anyone using the word refugee does not intend harm. OK I prefer 'evacuee' to 'refugee'. I prefer 'survivors' to 'victims.' But to worry about policing that distinction...well, there are other words that are far more damaging to police IMO.

Dunno, this whole thing seems excessively PC. Like some kind of displacement activity. Focusing on minutiae that we can control rather than contemplating the overwhelming big issues. Maybe in that sense it's indicative about our level of sensitivity to what has happened--the horror that we were forced to witness and acknowledge. I may be wrong, but I doubt that semantics is on the minds of actual survivors. Whoever's reading this, if it feels better to correct this usage, then do it, but really, it's such a small matter.

[Maine Mary]

10. Intent,,,,You summed up my thoughts perfectly

Thanks.

[zippy890]

11. I understand the displaced people's sensitivity

to certain words. There is such a big controversy in this country about immigrants, 'illegals', noncitizens. Refugees sounds like victims of famine in Eritrea, not Americans. Black americans want to be defined & treated as americans, first & foremost, & I don't blame them.

[marions ghost]

17. I accept the sensitivity

and am aware of the reasoning behind the objection. Just saying I think it hooks into deep fears of "labelling" that are at times unfounded and more divisive than anything else. I'm curious to know where this objection originated.

While the word refugee may have several connotations, none really derogatory, I don't really think this is a case of black people not being defined as Americans. That's a stretch for me. Yes, they were defined as poor and expendable in Corporate America, in Halliburton America. But "America" doesn't mean what it used to, if you want to get down to it. A lot of us are not being treated as Americans these days, by obsolete definitions.

[ret5hd]

35. as a writer, are you a "hack"...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:hack

hey, my intent was to imply definition #1 (one who works hard at boring tasks), not #5 (a mediocre and disdained writer)

[Tomee450]

39. Nonsense

This is not the first time that people have been evacuated in this country and the term refugee was never used. Why use it now when talking about a situation in which most of those evacuated are black? For too long blacks have been made to feel like they are second class citizens and now a term is being used which previously referred to people forced to flee to another country. Try putting yourself in the shoes of African Americans. If you did so perhaps you would understand how that might look to black people.

[lala_rawraw]

12. It implies

That the people are displaced as foreign nationals, the connotation. Not good in describing American citizens.

[KitchenWitch]

13. I am glad to see you back!

I hope you are feeling better.

:hi:

[lala_rawraw]

29. thanks, i am starting to

and enough to rant a bit anyway:)

[marions ghost]

14. Believe me I am fully aware of the semantic argument

and it makes sense to point it out...but I don't think most Americans understand the nuances, the connotation. So it's hardly a serious matter nor an insult. The hoo-ha about it may get people talking about how we treat our own citizens perhaps. Or it may make people feel they shouldn't open their mouths...

Anyway I will try to avoid 'refugees' but not impugn those who do. I'm just saying there may be another side to this debate. I question the way people have locked onto this as though it was a really big deal, another PC infraction we have to police. I think this may make the more intellectual onlookers feel better and discharge guilt but does it really help the survivors? I see it as displacement activity on the part of those who are sincerely concerned, but detached. It's OK as a symbolic gesture.

[Old Mouse]

15. our brain processes words and concepts the same way

Although logically there is a tremendous difference between the label of a thing an the thing itself, to the brain there is not.

For example, when reading this sentence it is MORE effort for you to see the separate letters then it is to read the entire sentence. You brain makes the concepts of these words, which are in fact abstract thought, have more weight and value than what they are; glyphs on a screen.

When you apply a label to a person or persons in the human mind they become that label. Even if applied in jest, your mind applies emotionally every aspect of that label it has stored when that label is used.

The destitute become the homeless, and suddenly they seem a little more like a political or ethnic group, and therefore easier to tolerate without guilt.

If these victims of this act of massive criminal negligence by our federal government become "refugees", we will begin to accept the fact that they will not get their homes back, that they will be inadequately compensated for their loss, and that they will be forcefully relocated throughout the nation. And just as though they were fleeing some oppressive third world nation, people will start to get angry that these "refugees" aren't more grateful for the help that have received.

[marions ghost]

20. I DO understand how labelling works...

--I understand how labels carry connotations.
--I understand the damage of inappropriate or derogatory labelling-- the examples that I personally work against are too numerous to list.

BUT I believe in this case that NO amount of debate about labelling is going to change or affect the reality of the situation. The people are going to be compensated or not, whether you call them evacuees or refugees or not. If the powers that be want to relocate them, they WILL do that. We ARE living in an oppressive nation, parts of which are very 3rd-worldy, where it's all about survival EVERYDAY, not just during hurricanes.

After awhile those who survived Katrina will no longer be evacuees (as that implies recent) so maybe they then turn into 'survivors' (though some will use the word 'victims,' which you could argue also has a crime connotation (which may be actually be appropriate since they were victims of a crime). But a lot of people would say 'survivors' sounds more positive than 'victims' See what I'm getting at? You can drive yourself crazy with all this. I guess after all these years in the Rovian spin machine I've overdosed on an emphasis on shaping images through words. I don't really trust it coming from anyone, period. When you EMPHASIZE the situation of the "outgroup," instead of letting it be defined loosely and naturally, then it can also amount to "otherizing" in a subtle way.
Does anybody out there get this, or am I off-base? If so, why?

I'm not really attempting to argue this one way or the other. Just honestly trying to figure out what's behind my own sense of "tilt," when I see people slicing and dicing the word 'refugee.' If it serves ANY purpose to help victims then OK. But I can't see how it does.

[Old Mouse]

38. I'm assuming you're a writer?

As a wordsmith you have a predisposition to believe literal definition of a word caries equal impact to it's emotional and cultural content.

The vast majority of America do not understand these concepts, and the use of "victims" and "evacuees" will be limited to progressive boards such as these. I'm not talking about "otherizing" a term that trivializes the power of tribalism, or mere connontations... I'm talking about consciousness. Instinctive rationalizing coping behavior. Try going a few minutes without subvocalization and you will see how much power language has over us.

If they are labeled as refugees they will cease to have news value, and the administration will be free to victimize them at will, just as they are with "terrorists" or "enemy combatants" as though e could have friendly combatants.

30 years ago no American would have accepted institutionalized poverty on the level we call "homelessness" or the torture rape and murder of foreign women and children over the vague threat of "terrorism" Rove has more than just spun news stories, he has turned a full spectrum of religious and political beliefs into polarized "red" and "blue" states, launched a full culture war over the mere word "marriage" and made even Jon Stewart forget Darwin thought evolution WAS "intelligent design"

If these people are called refugees its the Trail of Tears all over again. Open and close the news story with theme music and graphics that assure we will regard it as reality tv, not reality ON tv.

I am sincerely sorry if I sound condescending, I really don't know how else to explain what I mean... language is insufficient to describe itself. I also think it's moot, as they are "refugees" by the news now no matter what we want to call them. And the Katrina title graphics and segment naming is far more damaging anyway, IMO.

[Tomee450]

41. I am African American

and I find your attitude appalling. You simply don't have a clue. Black people have always been considered the "other" in this society and now they, American citizens, are being called refugees, a term usually used to refer to people who had to flee their native land. This term was never used before to refer to white displaced citizens, why use it now when most of the evacuees are black. Unfortunately, there are too many people who just cannot put themselves in the place of others. You might think the opposition to calling black citizens just more PC, I don't. Black people are citizens, not refugees and should never be called such.

[RC]

18. I use the term 'Survivor'

They most definitely did survived despite the federal government's forced inaction to kill them off.
I have a problem with the word refugee as that denotes the survivors as other, foreign, not us.

The next step is less than human, or at least not as good as us. This is needed so we can blame them for their plight instead of the federal government, i.e., FEMA.

[marions ghost]

23. does it mainly connote 'foreign'

because we don't usually think of refugees as occurring in our own country? But why couldn't they? Still, how do you make the jump to this means 'lesser American' or non-American. Many of us are psychological refugees from the America we once knew. Does that make us "non-American."

I ask in a spirit of enquiry, I don't claim to have any definitive answers.

[kath]

31. in some of the dictionary entries posted here last week, the 2nd or 3rd

definitions do NOT require the "foreign" element. Therefore the word refugee could appropriately be used here.

[Karenina]

37. My fantasy

Big White NOLA Mama trailing kids be wearin' a t-shirt say:

I Survived "Operation Drown the Negroes"

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[mmonk]

21. It doesn't remind people

that the victims are citizens.

[marions ghost]

26. And why should we need a reminder of that?

Only the most twisted heads would think that, and they aren't subject to 'reminders.'

[Tomee450]

42. I am curious.

Why do you fight so hard for the use of a word that millions of American citizens find highly offensive when used in this situation. Is it that the feelings of those people, American citizens, mean so little to you?

[NorthernSpy]

22. as far as international law is concerned, "refugees" are persons who...

... have crossed an international border because of persecution.

Those who survived Hurricane Katrina are Internally Displaced Persons.

Of course, they are also refugees in the plain English sense. But some people react badly to that word because it seems to imply that they came here from somewhere else -- when in fact they are native born citizens.

[marions ghost]

24. in plain English (rather than Internally Displaced Persons)

most people do not MAKE the connection until it is pointed out to them. So if you promote this as a 'problem', you PLANT the idea that these people are not somehow citizens, when nobody ever thought that. The jerks who discriminate against a whole group of people are not affected by any such subtle arguments. So who is really being helped or (adversely) targeted?

[Ms. Toad]

32. International law, by its name,

implies that it is a law governing relationships across international borders.

I can imagine the U.S. would be pretty upset at having an international law which purported to govern people displaced within its borders - so the definition would be written that way just to ensure it was not overreaching. It is specific to the context, and has nothing to do with the common (or even US/state law) definition of refugee.

That said, I think either refugee or evacuee is an appropriate label. But, since I have now heard repeatedly that these folks to whom this label is being applied find the term refugee inappropriate or offensive, I will defer to their choice.

I do find it interesting that the initial suggestion of refugee was by the left as an alternative to homeless because of the negative connotations sometimes associated with being homeless. The first person I heard condemning the use of refugee was Lars Larsen (extreme right wing radio host), followed by outrage from the left (which later accused Bush of co opting the left's designation). It has been interesting watching tussle in framing this issue.

[seemslikeadream]

25. The Black Caucus, former NO mayor, Jesse Jackson

object to the term

[marions ghost]

28. thank you

I see that the media is divided also on this issue:

"Calling Katrina Survivors 'Refugees' Stirs Debate"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9232071/

Everything else Jesse Jackson has said about the tragedy rings true for me, right on the money in fact. (I agree with him 90% of the time). Well, although I question the semantic argument, maybe this little debate about "refugees" draws attention to the bigger points Jackson was making.

[pitohui]

30. as a displaced person i'm not offended to be called a refugee

to be honest i'm more offended that i can't call myself a refugee because it might make someone who isn't homeless more aware of the disaster & more uncomfortable abt the situation

i'm weary of the euphemisms

being afraid to say it like it is doesn't help anything

[Ms. Toad]

34. You should call yourself what feels most appropriate,

As I indicated above, and in several prior posts, refugee seems to me a very accurate word. I have shifted to using evacuee only to be respectful of those evacuee's who have said they find refugee offensive.

Naming is often very important - and no one has the right to tell you you are not a refugee if that is the term that is most comfortable for you.

[question everything]

33. Will the real refugees stand up

Published September 18, 2005

Will the real refugees stand up

JUNE CASAGRANDE

(snip)

A number of media outlets have used this word to describe the people displaced by Hurricane Katrina, that is, people seeking refuge.

Others, including a number of black leaders, have found this word deeply troubling and offensive. "Refugees," they point out, tends to be associated with foreigners -- people who fled their home country to seek refuge in another. These leaders worry that this word dehumanizes the flood victims and implicitly suggests they're somehow below the status of Americans.

(snip)

None of my style guides contains an entry for this word, so we're left to rely on dictionary definitions. Webster's New World College Dictionary defines "refugee" as "a person who flees from home or country to seek refuge elsewhere, as in a time of war or of political or religious persecution." That's "home OR country." So technically, it's OK. The word may carry lots of racial baggage, but it is not expressly racist.

(snip)

Political correctness is really just politeness. But it's politeness once removed. Someone named Robert might not like it if I call him Bob. Perhaps this if for reasons I can't understand. Maybe he had a cruel stepfather named Bob. Either way, when he tells me "I prefer to be called Robert," I have no problem honoring his request. But when such a request comes not directly from Robert but from some larger, removed force, I feel bullied.

And that's what all this hype is about. If you or I were in a one-on-one conversation with a traumatized, sobbing storm victim who said, "Please don't call me refugee; that makes me sound like I'm not an American or something," we'd be happy to oblige.

Of course, the media can't kowtow to every language request. That's why the New York Times is as right to continue using the word as the Washington Post is to abandon it. They're all just trying to walk a fine line between sensitivity and independence.

(snip)

http://www.dailypilot.com/opinion/story/24707p-35321c.html

* JUNE CASAGRANDE is a freelance writer. She can be reached at [e-mail].

[Igel]

36. Mostly because people don't read widely.

As one woman was widely quoted as saying, standing in New Orleans, she wasn't a refugee, as though anybody would even think of applying the word to her: she obviously thought people were. Then again, she wasn't an evacuee, either.

Secondarily, as one DUer said, if the CBC says that it's racist to use the word, it's good enough for him/her. The, "I can't think for myself ... tell me, kind sir, what I'm thinking" routine.

FEMA has no business dealing with all the evacuees; many survivors never left New Orleans, and not all merit help. Some left the Marriott and went home.

And I can't bring myself to force 'evacuate' to be a medio-passive, thank you. Maybe after I've heard it enough times, but not today.

Then again, I'm just an educated speaker of English and a trained linguist. Not competent to opine on English or language, like politicians and pundits.