If Clark had agreed to be Dean's VP, would Kosovo be an issue now?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

Before Clark entered the race, there was a lot of speculation that Clark would be Dean's VP. Dean met with Clark about defense issues.

If Clark had not run, and instead planned to accept the VP position from Dean, does anyone think that Dean's campaign would be on DU accusing Clark of being a war criminal? If Clark is a war criminal, why would Dean want him as VP?

Kucinich 2004

[LoneStarLiberal]

1. Probably Not

Probably not. And to extend your idea, no matter if the ticket ends up as Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean, all previous faults will be magnanimously forgiven once the ticket is organized.

If it works out that way. We've still got a long way to go before we start seriously considering tickets.

[bowens43]

2. What makes you think that 'Dean's campaign' is on DU

accusing Clark of being a war criminal? What makes you think that 'Dean's campaign is on DU at all?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

3. At least one admitted it

There's a poster accusing Clark of war crimes, who has posted that he works for Dean.

"What makes you think that 'Dean's campaign is on DU at all?"

Because I'm not an idiot - there are staff from every campaign on DU, surely you don't think otherwise?

[LuminousX]

8. I assure you

If the Dean Campaign decides to push that dubious line of attack against Clark, they will do it from official avenues and not as a post on here. And someone pushing that line of attack saying they work for the campaign in an official capacity is most likely a liar.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

11. of course Dean won't do it officially!

he'll do it with plausible deniability, using an unofficial campaigner. He'd be an idiot to attack Clark in public for it, and no one has said Dean's an idiot.

[stickdog]

32. The next time I talk to ANYONE with ANY official status in the Dean

campaign will be the FIRST time.

And I just happen to like it that way.

[Woodstock]

18. Someone can "work for Dean" but not be affiliated with him

If you were a public person, let's say a movie star, I could "work for you" if I thought you were neat or cute or interesting, and you might not even know it. If I stood on a corner and gave out flyers for your latest movie, for instance, I could say I "worked for you." But would I represent you? No.

As someone who has "worked for Dean" in a fairly significant capacity as a volunteer, let me be the first to let you know, the communication is GOD AWFUL between Burlington and the volunteers in many states. There are big wigs who get to talk to Burlington, but they have no clue about all the work that is going on at a lower level, and could truly care less as long as those meetup numbers and email addresses keep pouring in. Politics as usual. I don't blame Dean for this, however.

And while I'm sure paid staffers are lurking on this board (though not as much as you think - let's not overinflate our importance) I truly doubt they'd be dumb enough to post extreme things like "war criminal" when they can be tracked in a number of ways, electronic and human. I'm pretty sure what you are seeing with the extreme comments are some over-eager, inexperienced supporters who are going overboard with the "bash the opponent" rhetoric. Again, I don't blame Dean for this, nor should you.

[stickdog]

31. I work for Dean. Independently and for no money. I am not part of any

"campaign." The fact that Dean has embraced independent, grassroots activism is one of the most appealing things about his candidacy.

[w13rd0]

4. Fallacies...

...you ask a question set up with an erroneous assumption in the first place. Claiming that the "Dean campaign is on DU accusing Clark of being a war criminal". Is this internet push polling or something?

ON EDIT: Define "works for". I "work for" the Dean campaign in the sense that I am a Dean supporter, and do what I can on a volunteer basis to advance the Dean campaign. I don't think paid staff of the Dean campaign would be making a habit of accusing any democratic nominee of being a war criminal. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion.

[Capn Sunshine]

5. Kosovo is an issue?

where? Besides on DU? Which in and of itself , is all consuming wonkism? I have never heard the word "Kosovo" mentioned once, and I've attended probably 50 different Democratic Party functions since Clark announced.

In the world, no one knows DU. I swear.

If I were a fervent Clark supporter, I'd worry more about Depleted Uranium, and Pentagon fraud/loss of three trillion dollars.

[clar]

6. I absolutely

doubt Dean has campaign staffers posting on DU about Clark/Kosovo. It makes no sense whatsoever. Paranoid. What's more, I'm a Dean supporter who supported the Kosovo campaign. Many of us do. It's been my observation that the majority of people who are critical of Clark on this issue are Kucinich supporters and very sincere in their opposition to Kosovo. I'm sick and tired of the demonization of Dean supporters because of a few bad apples. The Clark campaign has it's own bad apples. One of them called Dean "a reeking piece of shit" and "unfit to lick the toilet bowl of.....". An Edwards supporter just called Dean a scumbag.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

9. of course Dean has staff posting on DU

Dean didn't get to be the number one fundraiser by NOT having staff post on internet forums. As to Clark/Kosovo, one of the people posting attacks on Clark over Kosovo described themselves as "working" for Dean - you tell me what that means.

[clar]

15. Gee,

maybe it means he/she is a supporter of Dean's. And yes Dean campaign workers have ocassionally posted on DU, openly and about issues related to the campaign- not other candidates. But posting to bad mouth Clark would be stupid, and this isn't a campaign that makes those kinds of mistakes. If you're truly concerned about this, notify the Dean campaign. And would you care to defend/condemn Clark supporters who behave as I described in my other post?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

17. hey, the Clarkies are fast becoming worse than the Deanies

I admit it freely. 6 months ago, it was the Deanies who were astro-turfing heavily and smearing Kucinich and Kerry all over the place. The Deanies were posting total BS "feel good" posts about how they all loved Dean and all sorts of nonsense. I objected constantly.

But when Clark joined, his astro-turf campaign was even more aggressive than Dean's, and the Clarkies went after Dean's record with a vengence.

My only serious objection is attacking Clark for his military career - it's the height of civilian arrogance and hypocrisy to denounce Clark because he actually did the killing instead of just ordering it like the politicians did.

[SEAburb]

7. How many threads are you going to start on Kosovo today/nt

????????????????????????????????

[Eloriel]

10. You mean if Dean had agreed to take Clark as his VP?

And everything about Clark is an issue, no matter what else.

No way I want him anywhere near Dean. And it's not just about Kosovo. There's plenty else in his background that makes him unsuitable as a Veep candidate.

Eloriel

[Code_Name_D]

12. Question?

When did Dean approch Clark to be his VP? I seem to reember Dean saying that he never asked this of Clark. Date please.

[StopTheMorans]

14. oh you won't get facts on this thread

as you'll see if you look at the above posts, it's 100 percent conjecture flavored with a heavy dose of tinfoil.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. Have you read a newspaper, or DU, in the last 3 months?

Because if you had, you would have read lots of reports of Dean and Clark meeting, claims that Clark was "advising" Dean on national security issues, and a whole lot of speculation - and a lot of urging from Dean supporters on DU - that Dean wanted Clark to be VP.

When Clark entered the race, the trashing of him on DU began.

[Code_Name_D]

20. Link please.

I don't see a date in your response eather. You just making this up?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

21. find your own link

The speculations about a Dean/Clark ticket and the meetings between Dean and Clark were posted on this forum for months and were heavily covered in the mainstream press.

Are you saying that Dean never met with Clark? Are you saying that Dean supporters didn't lobby here to have Clark as VP?

[Code_Name_D]

27. Ohhhh, we are "speculating" now, are we?

The speculations about a Dean/Clark ticket and the meetings between Dean and Clark were posted on this forum for months and were heavily covered in the mainstream press.

LOL. I do recall a number of drug induced speculations about Dean/Clark. But I also saw speculations about Dean/Kerry, Dean/Gore, and Dean/Elvis, combinations. But obviously, senses your are "speculating" you know full well that there is no evidence to back up your attack against Dean. And why attack Dean? What ever did he do to Clark?

Are you saying that Dean never met with Clark?

Oh NOW we are asking for my opinion? LOL. I believe it was you who claimed that Dean approached Clark. But you failed to give any dates where Dean and Clark met in privet to "speculate" on a Dean/Clark ticket. Mean while, I am speculating that you made this all up. And I dare say that point has already been made, explaining your hostility.

Are you saying that Dean supporters didn't lobby here to have Clark as VP?

Oh please. Yay, that must be it. The DU is a secret Dean spy ring for Deans evil empire, playing a vital role in Deans plans for global conquest. Now that is some speculating you can sink your teeth into.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

33. Maybe you're right

"LOL. I do recall a number of drug induced speculations about Dean/Clark. But I also saw speculations about Dean/Kerry, Dean/Gore, and Dean/Elvis, combinations. But obviously, senses your are "speculating" you know full well that there is no evidence to back up your attack against Dean. And why attack Dean? What ever did he do to Clark?"

Maybe you're right, perhaps that possibility was not discussed everyday for months here on DU, on FR, and in the newspapers around the country. Perhaps I just made that up. Let's let the readers (if any) decide.

"Oh NOW we are asking for my opinion? LOL. I believe it was you who claimed that Dean approached Clark. But you failed to give any dates where Dean and Clark met in privet to "speculate" on a Dean/Clark ticket. Mean while, I am speculating that you made this all up. And I dare say that point has already been made, explaining your hostility."

Maybe the WSJ, the NYT, and the WP were all lying when they wrote about the meetings between Dean and Clark. Maybe it's all a big conspiracy?

"Oh please. Yay, that must be it. The DU is a secret Dean spy ring for Deans evil empire, playing a vital role in Deans plans for global conquest. Now that is some speculating you can sink your teeth into."

Again, you could be right. But then again, maybe not. After all, I did refuse to provide a link or a specific date for the many stories in the newspapers and on DU about this, so again maybe I'm just making it all up. I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

[Larkspur]

13. Dean never offered Clark the VP slot

He just offered him a position within his campaign should Clark decline to run for Prez.

It's too early to think about VP's but Dean did say that there is a strenuous vetting process for VP nominees. Wonder if Clark would pass it?

[Padraig18]

16. I take exception to the use of "Dean campaign"

A great many of US are just as apalled at the baseless accusations about Clark as anyone else, and defend Clark on these very boards in that regard.

Politics can be sorta odd, that way...

[Rowdyboy]

22. And you are much appreciated Padraig...

Once, you were so eloquent in your defense of Clark that I assumed you were a supporter. I was really surprised to discover you were for Dean. I, like you, admire both men and would love to see them run together. If not, I expect each would find a way to use the other in his administration. Both are incredibly talented.

[Padraig18]

24. Thank you!

I believe in any FAIR comparison/contrast discussion of *true* issues among the several candidates, but I dislike intensely defamation and slanderous, ad hominem attacks on ANY candidate. To call Gen. Clark a 'war criminal' is a most grievous accusation, and absent proof of the same, I will defend his innocence on the charge.:)

[JasonBerry]

23. Yes!

I am on record, going wayyy back as saying that Democrats should keep Clark off the ticket as #1 OR #2. By the way, not all who are opposed to Wesley Clark are Dean supporters. Dean is fine with me and far better than the good general, though actually, I plan to vote for Dennis Kucinich in our primary.

[gully]

25. Dennis Kucinich is no fan of Wesley Clark...

and, as a supporter of Dennis Kucinich, how do you feel about that?

And by the way, some of the most outspoken Clark 'critics' if you will, are Dennis Kucinich supporters.

[dfong63]

26. personally i don't want Dean to have a war criminal as a running mate

[stickdog]

28. Had Dean accepted Clark as his VP, it would have been the

Eagleton moment that destroyed his campaign.

[dsc]

29. Do you have any citation at all

for your charge that the "Dean campaign is calling Clark a war criminal."

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

30. sorry I should have said

"Dean's grassroots online campaign" - obviously Dean's official campaign wouldn't have the guts to say it in public.

[dfong63]

34. kosovo would be an issue even if Dean hadn't run

a lot of people protested the Kosovo war, and haven't forgotten. Clarkies are kidding themselves if they think the issue is only being brought up by Dean partisans.