The hatred toward those who are leaving the US is unfounded and disturbing

[Qibing Zero]

The personal insults are just not warranted. Unless posts are being made such as: 'Haha! I've escaped. Have fun rotting in hell guys!', I don't see why people are even upset. Most of the people leaving are not turning their backs on America. Must I stand on American soil to make America a better place? Do I have to be in Africa to help it's dying peoples? No. You need nothing more than your voice and your mind to bring change. Put away your preconcieved notions and open your minds.

Those of you who are hostile toward these people seem to still see the world with American eyes. You must realize that these are broader issues that we are fighting, and we have to try and see the world as a whole, not the shattered land of imaginary borders that we have come to accept. Just because, by pure chance, we were born in the US, should we stay here and fight for whatever it is we believe in, regardless of whether or not we as persons would be better suited elsewhere? I can't stand still and listen to the 'America is the best place to live in the world, and you owe something to the country because you were lucky enough to be born here' people any longer. Beside the fact that America being the best has long been questionable (it's really a matter of preference), I don't owe anything to any country. The only thing I owe to anyone by birthright is that to the people of the world: to fight for them, because where they may not, I have the means to do so.

I am with every last person who feels we must stand up and fight the oppression in this country - I have and continue to write extensively on it - but the truth is that the entire world, not just our country, needs sweeping reform. Forgive me if I don't see the point in worrying about one country over another when people are resigned to STARVE simply because they were born in the wrong place, and when people face the same kind of injustice and abuse of power in this world regardless of where they stand.

So, will you judge the person who has the same resolve as before, but takes his or her fight elsewhere? Will you tell them not to go, because we need every voice here? Is our plight most important of all? I do not think it's in our best interest to wait for the next election, and hope for change, when the roots of this problem go much deeper than that. While technology and science have increased exponentially, humanity is receeding back in time. Greed, lust for power, and selfishness control the world. So, so few people are able to think anywhere near freely, and it results in nothing but strife, animosity, ignorance, and blindness. Taking all of this into consideration, it's hard to believe that things will improve without drastic change. The topic of what must be done is open for discussion, but we must forget about 'our interests' and work for the interests of all people.

We all come and speak our minds here not because we are tied blindly to labels and sectarian enclosures of thought, but because we think progressively. We like for our bases to be challenged, and we want to see the future as a better place than the past, not the dystopia many of us can, more easily every day, envision reality becoming. We value freedom of expression, because we believe that if every last thought is to be examined, the ones that are backwards and nearsighted will easily be discarded in favor of the ones that speak true to reality. Most importantly though, we move for the betterment of all people - regardless of their affiliations, and despite what sacrifices it may take.

I hope that we can realize that personal insults are more counterproductive than anything. If you disagree, the first course of action should always be to try and relate to the person's situation. If you still find their position without merit, argue the position, not the person.

Empathy is the most healthy of all of our feelings, and if we're going to survive in today's world without bringing about nuclear holocaust, we're going to need a hell of a lot of it.

[HeeBGBz]

1. I would probably go if I could

I don't blame anyone for going elsewhere.

It's good to see the world from the other side of the fence.

Probably good that there would be others outside the USA vouching for a handfull of people left inside who have not been Bushwhacked.

[Qibing Zero]

3. That's the thing, it's so easy to lose perspective,

and some people don't seem to have ever had much of it to lose in the first place.

[VPStoltz]

2. Again the hypocracy...

When the corporations sending them their tax free dividends leave the country, its called progress.

[bigbrother05]

4. I agree

We have got to learn as a society we are one, there are no borders or boundaries, we are all international.

[brokensymmetry]

5. Maybe it's jealousy.

Maybe it will become more pronounced over the next few years.

[StellaBlue]

6. I agree

as a citizen of the world

what's the big deal?

good luck to people who get to move somewhere they feel more comfortable

[crispini]

7. I've seen those "rag on the movers" threads,

I don't know if I've posted in them or not. I don't think so. Of course, every person has their own reasons for where they wish to live. More power to 'em.

However, I feel that people who proclaim that they're going to carry on the fight from overseas are simply not realistic, or they don't have any idea of what "the fight" truly is. For me, real involvement in politics -- real change -- has to start with the ground up, from the local level. This means electing progressives to your school board, your courts, your city councils. You can't do any of that from overseas because you simply cannot stay that engaged in something (local politics) that, by and large, requires your presence in person, not on the net. It's almost impossible to be reasonably well informed about local politics without going to local candidate forums, meeting them, and talking to them.

IMO, local politics are the "farm team" for our future politicians, the training ground for our activists, the place where people really interact with their community, where the rubber meets the road.

Of course, people leave the US for their own reasons, and I'm not going to condemn them for it, but I find the pledges to "keep fighting" from Over There a bit unrealistic. I don't think that it's possible to do the day to day, face to face work required to improve America when you don't live here.

Now, if you're talking about the "big picture" of humanity, fine, go fight pollution in Cheing Mai or where-ever, I know plenty of overseas development workers who are doing wonderful things. I was an overseas development worker myself at one time. I think that's a marvelous fight to be in, but I don't think it's the same fight that most day-to-day Democratic activists are involved in.

[bigbrother05]

8. Won't pretend to speak for 'most'

people or generalize about the good folks here at DU. Personally agree that the grass roots, ground up activism is the best way for someone to move the party forward. That should be followed by engaging with local & state leaders to make sure they have an honest, direct understanding of how issues impact the citizens. Then the national party should be moved to address truly broad policies that will make sense to the majority regardless of political affiliation.

Now, the question is, should you only be allowed to participate if you have worked your way up the chain of command? I don't think so, not everyone is comfortable at every level and some of us may not have the patience to make sure every box is checked.

We all have something to give and I won't judge whether or not someone can make a valid contribution by only working on local school issues or has to be resident in the US.