Last straw w/ fundamentalist friend ...

[PittLib]

his latest e-mail (he did not write it) after I asked him to remove me from his address book, titled:

"This is why I want to become a Republican."
Compromise is a trap from satan himself. Last summer, I watched with great interest the Democratic Convention as they did their very best to hide their true beliefs. This party supports a woman's right to kill her baby, they try to redefine God's Holy Institution of Marriage and family, and are made up of many special interest groups that are in rebellion to God and His Word. However, they very carefully kept from the podium in Boston anyone who would articulate these beliefs on the critical spiritual issues facing our nation today.

A few weeks later, I watched the Republican Convention in New York. This party states that it supports life, a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as a man and a woman, as well as other positions consistent with the Bible on key spiritual issues. However, the speakers in prime time did not endorse any of those positions at the podium, and were actually people on record supporting the exact opposite! My friend, this is called compromise and it is a trap from satan himself!

While compromise is part of the landscape of the political world, sadly, it has also become part of the landscape of the church world. Many churches now support and condone the sin of homosexuality. Some have perverted the Gospel with the abominable lie from hell that "all good people will go to Heaven." Too many pastors have quit preaching about sin for fear of offending people. For too many people, church has turned into little more than a social gathering and a place to be entertained on Sundays.

WHEN YOU COMPROMISE THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD, YOU ARE LEFT WITH NOTHING!

This is not only true in the church, but it is true in your life as well. There is no such thing as a little sin. Sin by its very definition is rebellion against God. You either obey God or you don't. There is no middle ground. You are either living in accordance with His Word, or you are living in rebellion to His Word. There is no room for compromise! Many of you are facing the problems you have in your life today because you chose
to compromise God's Word. The fact is, our way doesn't work and God's way does!

I love you and care about you so much. I want to encourage you today.
Whenever we choose to compromise the truth of God's Word, there is always a price to pay. Never forget that satan is a liar. He is the great justifier. Satan will always give you great reasons why it is OK to compromise in a certain situation or circumstance. But remember, Jesus told us in John chapter 10 that it is satan's goal to "kill, steal, and destroy"...you! God on the other hand loves you, cares about you, and wants to bless you. Don't listen to the one who wants to destroy your life, listen to the one who wants to bless your life!

This is a simple message today, but a powerful one. Politicians can't get anything of significance accomplished because they have compromised themselves to the point they really stand for nothing. One of the reasons the church today is so weak and ineffective is because it has compromised the truth of God's Word leaving it powerless to affect change in our world or in the lives of people. Many of you are struggling in your life today because you have compromised God's plan for your own.

My word for you today is to hold firm to the truth of God's Word. It will guide you and sustain you through the good times and bad. Don't ever let the enemy deceive you into believing that you have a better plan than God does. When you compromise what God has said, you are telling your Creator that you know more than He does. Never forget that compromise is a trap from satan himself that will only bring heartache and pain. Follow God's way, that is where you will find the blessings.


In His love and service,
Your friend and brother in Christ,
Bill Keller


And my response:

This is intellectually dishonest ... but whatever - that never seems to make a difference to you. FYI - Republicans, in whole and particularly in power, are not "true believers" ... they tell you what you want to hear in order to gain your vote (in numbers) so that they may further their OWN agenda - which has far more to do with Mid East oil and corporate structure than it EVER will with God. The sad thing is - IT IS SO EASY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU BECAUSE YOU DON'T QUESTION ANYTHING! One mention of God or Jesus by a politician and you'll follow him like lemmings right off a cliff... and certain Republicans are just insidious and dishonest enough to abuse your blind devotion. I don't think you'd recognize truth if it kicked you in the nethers. Hey, if you don't mind being used for a vote, then go for it... but DO NOT kid yourself into believing that the Republican party is somehow more devout or moral - just perhaps more opportunistic and self righteous.

I pride myself on my ability to reason and think for myself. I strive to show compassion and not prejudge a person or their circumstance. I strive to life free of hypocrisy. And I have asked you multiple times not to send me this shit ... and it is just that - absolute shit. I've asked nicely in an attempt to appeal to your sense of reason and respect. I've asked a little less nicely when you chose ignore my initial request, and continued to send me your racist, dishonest and ignorant (yet completely unoriginal) narratives. Frankly, the fact that you buy this shit makes me question your ability to reason ... and I will no longer tolerate your views, as you've so cavalierly disrespected mine. Hell - you don't even try to string together anything vaguely resembling an opinion or original thought. You just regurgitate the crap you suck up from "Christian" TV and radio. I love the person I knew. I do not, however, know you, and I don't think I want to. This is the last time I will ask, and I am very serious ... do not contact me.

Pittlib

PS - Bill Keller is an asshole.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Good job. Don't ever let them get away with thinking they are right. Just

send this guy to my site. Let that explode his brain for a while. :P

[elehhhhna]

2. WTH soes God's word have to do with Mepublicans?

I'd ask him why his God is SUCh an ASSHOLE. Seriously.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

3. Ask him (seriously) to answer these questions I posed to

My fundie brother;
David, I am confused. Brother Robertson quotes Leviticus to show that hurricane Katrina is a result of New Orleans having a gay pride parade. Leviticus also says that you will go to hell for eating shellfish. Additionally, there are some other rules in the bible that I don't quite understand, to wit:
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)

B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines, in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)

C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)

D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)

E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)

F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe, and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law. (Gen. 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)

G. In lieu of marriage, if there are no acceptable men in your town, it is required that you get your dad drunk and have sex with him (even if he had previously offered you up as a sex toy to men young and old), tag-teaming with any sisters you may have. Of course, this rule applies only if you are female. (Gen 19:31-36)

I was under the impression that , with the new testament, Jesus told us of the "Good News", that we are forgivin for our sins. Please enlighten me. I can't figure out if God is punishing us or if we are forgiven?
Bud

BTW, I still have not recieved an answer.

[sweetladybug]

4. It sounds like a good reply to your ex-friend. And

I personally, would not want a friend like that.

[acmejack]

5. I think what you're experiencing has been felt by almost everyone here.

It is sad that it comes to this, but a time comes when one must stand up for their beliefs.

I'm sorry about the loss of your former friend, I know the feeling all too well.

[cornermouse]

6. Republican party morality in action.

http://www.joplinglobe.com/story.php?story_id=206371&PHPSESSID=5e9f0ef448db47a202dd7917ad2ad7da

More than 9,500 people across the state, such as Rieman’s daughter, had their benefits eliminated when that program was cut. At the same time, the state informed 90,000 other Medicaid recipients that the income guidelines had been reduced and that they were no longer eligible for Medicaid coverage. In addition to that, equipment and rehabilitation services were cut to 389,000 Missourians.

Among the 90,000 people who lost coverage are Sandy Crawford, 57, of Cliff Village, and Joe Lindenfelser, 53, of Seneca.

“They claim we make too much for me to be covered. I take 11 kinds of medicine,” said Crawford, who is battling cancer with treatments and prescription drugs. “There is no money left over for food. We’re going to go in the hole fast if we can’t get my Medicaid back on.”

Lindenfelser said he and his wife, Donna, 57, “have both been kicked off Medicaid. We can’t afford to buy medicine now. People will buy food before they buy medicine. We’ll have to do without medicine. We ain’t got no choice.”

[Dem2theMax]

7. I don't blame you a bit.

Someone I've known for almost 20 years has now been banned from my life. During the election, she sent me all the right wing email garbage she could find. She never bothered to find out if it was true. (Never was and I always sent her links to prove it.) A day after the election she sent me an email titled "I told you so" -- not written by her but it didn't matter. I was furious with her and wrote her back and told her so. Then I stopped replying to her future emails. She sent them for a few more months (I'd just delete them, never reading them) and she finally gave up and quit sending anything.

After the disaster of * and Katrina, I figured she HAD to have had an awakening. She had to see now what * was, and wasn't, compared to her previous beliefs. So I sent her an email, first one in 10 months, that was a petition asking * to get busy taking care of the victims of Katrina. Her response? ANOTHER garbage filled, written by someone else, right wing, hate filled attack -- this time on the victims of Katrina, BLAMING them for being victims. It went on and on, saying that being on welfare, being poor, living in government housing, being in jail, (all without saying BLACK, but it was heavily implied) all of that was the reason these victims were now victims. It was all their own fault! Two weeks later, I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor.

This 'former' friend believes herself to be a VERY good Catholic.
Well, I wrote her back, told her that I was absolutely dumbfounded that she would BLAME the poor, BLAME the victims, for what had happened to them. I told her that Jesus would be ashamed. And told her that I was ashamed as well. Sent it off and waited. No reply to MY email. But she sent another, with a file attachment (heaven only knows what was in it) labeled 'New Orleans.' So I reported it to my ISP as spam and had her blocked from sending me any more emails. I KNOW, sure as I'm sitting here that she would send more emails. I would have loved to see the look on her face when she got the 'your email has been refused, blocked by *****me*****' message in her in box.

I no longer see this woman as a Catholic, good or otherwise. I now see her as evil. How could a person be anything other than evil when they blame the victims because they were POOR? Oh, and black.

I'm done trying to reason with any right wingers. They are brainwashed beyond belief and filled with hate.

[CatholicEdHead]

10. Your friend has forgotten about the social works part of the Church

All the Popes from Leo XIII on have supported the working people, fair distribution of wealth, right to form unions, etc...

Yet I know this present political strain of Catholism all too well. :(

[PittLib]

16. I don't think it is Catholicism ...

well, maybe ... but I understand him to be "born-again" which seems even more extreme. I know some pretty crazy Catholics, but never this bad.

[PittLib]

12. I understand ...

I might have to do the same as far as the ISP report, as he continues to send me shit. The unfortunate part of this whole thing is that this was one of my closest friends. He was a good friend of the family and we (my brother, my mother and myself) adored him. When I was 17 (he was 23), he was in a motorcycle accident and never quite recovered. He could have fought to be independent, but I think he gave up. He is now 37 and still lives with his parents, who always struck me as hard-luck types, but not religious - and he was far from it. I picture it not unlike the Terri Schiavo relationship ... where the parents find meaning (and perhaps a little martyrdom) in caring for an incapacitated child, even if adult. He could have benefited from physical therapy (he had a series of strokes) moreso if not unlike my step-brother (also in a motorcycle accident) who broke his neck and now is a quad, but otherwise had no head injuries (brain damage). This brings up another issue with this friend - SCR = abortion ... it seems that he has conveniently forgotten how quickly one's life can change. I ignored this friend's e-mail for years, until I became more politically aware. Even my mother and brother (both non-religious Repubs) have found most of it pointless/objectionable and now delete it before opening. I just can't ... I feel it would be dishonest and yet see no further point in attempting intelligent debate.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

8. Sorry, PittLib. This may help....

Maybe, you would want to send him a little follow-up re: his line WHEN YOU COMPROMISE THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD, YOU ARE LEFT WITH NOTHING!

Something along the lines of the old Dr Laura letter:

The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1 . The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21 . In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

************************************

:rofl: I always get a chuckle out of these...I imagine your "friend" won't...that's the point.:evilgrin:

[Mnemosyne]

18. Thank you for that!

:rofl: :rofl:

[Lexingtonian]

9. Was he a friend?

People who don't know how to think and have such numbed moral and spiritual sensibility as this fellow tend not to be friends, in any deeper sense of the term.

This person's theology is an occultism centered on the Bible. He claims to know a Higher Plane and that- and how- it emanates into The World. He claims that a Dark Demiurge confounds the efforts Above to achieve salvation Below as explained in the Bible (to his reading), i.e. subscribes to the doctrine of Analogy of Above and Below. He says to be doctrinaire, i.e. willful, and proposes a salvific efficacy to the doctrine's implementation/exertion- which is in effect assertion of the doctrine of omnipotence of human will.

So, it's magical thinking. It abuses the Bible to serve ends that are his own, treats it as dead or a conduit for human desire, aka Bibliodolatry. It talks about love and compassion and has none to give or accept. It's paganism using a Bible.

I wouldn't object to the body of the missive. I would object to the closing claim, to the "In His love and service, Your friend and brother in Christ" as fallacious and a violation of the Commandment to not engage in false witness.

[PittLib]

14. My friend did not write the text ...

he merely forwards the words of another, Mr. Keller, who I find to be a bit scary. My friend is a "born-again" which I tried to understand for years as his accident left him (in his mind) helpless and/or hopeless. He was abandoned by his friends (including me) and girlfriend and turned to God. Perhaps I felt guilty for not being there (I left for college out of state) or for not knowing how to handle the situation - so I gave him a lot of room. I just cannot do it anymore. He was a great friend, but he in no way resembles the person I loved years ago. That person was fearless and kind and outspoken. Now he is brainwashed, obstinate and judgmental. I can't do it ... it isn't worth it.

[seabeyond]

19. repugs do that. i never hear from them with their own words.

it si always a made up thing from repug party and then all the little sheep send it to each other shaking their head in agreement but certainly no thought

[PittLib]

21. I did try to get him to express any unique thought ...

I begged in fact. He never wrote "hey - are you ..." or "I recently read _____..." - he just forwards me crap that can be debunked on Snopes. I don't care if he hates liberals, I just want him to prove that he came up with the idea on his own. Pathetic. I want to send him a card that says "Congrats on your lobotomy ..." or "Why think when you can pray!". What pisses me off most of all is that I found out that my neighbor has cancer today. When I asked what I could do ... she replied "Say a prayer for me". This is a woman who needs and deserves it (she is a 40-something mother of 3), as well as embodies what a good Christian is. I admire her devotion to her faith, and while I am not religious, I will say a prayer. Perhaps I can ask my "friend" to do the same once he's done damning the homos and abortionists.

[seabeyond]

22. i am amongst many of these "good" christians

how they now seperate themselves from all other christians (dems). started hearing good christian spring of 2004. my kids went to a christian private school. a lot of hypocrisy.

anyway, your neighbor, my thoughts will be with her.

[PittLib]

24. Thank you.

That makes me teary, and grateful. I don't really know what to do - I don't think the prognosis is good (rectal cancer) ... but nothing can happen to her. It would just be too cruel. I know - when isn't it? I just started training for a new job, so I'm a bit strapped ... but I think flowers might be nice? Is that inappropriate? I'm so bad at this - and she has been so kind to me.

[seabeyond]

27. save your money and grab the kids, take em out for icecream

sometime when she isnt feeling well. or invite them over to watch a movie. where she knows they will be safe and they can be away from the illness some. just be her friend. no more special gift than that. the best of luck to you all. no one is good at this.

[sandnsea]

11. I have no friends such as this

I guess if they were lifelong friends or something, I can understand. Otherwise, I shoo these people away right quick. Is there some reason other people don't??? :shrug:

[Ladyhawk]

13. Having grown up in the fundy subculture, friends like these were all

I had. It took awhile, but I've realized I can't be close friends with any fundies. They're too judgmental, too strange. Unfortunately, it's harder to leave fundy family.

[PittLib]

15. I don't have to deal with the fundy family ...

Gott sei dank (thank God)?! This person did not begin this way, I don't remember him ever being remotely religious. It has been for the last 7-8 years, and we communicate solely through e-mail. I recently considered a visit ... until I realized that he might use the time as a conversion attempt. I struggle with my conscience because I feel as though I should have done more as his friend (as should all of them) and perhaps this wouldn't have happened. I feel a bit guilty for writing him off ... and yet know that I cannot change who he is, nor can he change me.

[Ladyhawk]

17. True. We can only change ourselves.

It's a tough lesson to really learn and dealing with fundies is highly unpleasant. It's especially unpleasant for me because I dealt with what I will call "spiritual abuse." It's amazing what folks can justify in the name of religion.

[Mr_Spock]

20. Good for you. I can't even eat at restaurants owned by Republicans

that I heard towing the Repuke line in other settings. I won't even debate these pin-heads any more - though a few I know have learned to tone down the bullshit before getting cut-off. Without the approval of thier more intellectual friends, many Republicans are starting to wonder how good all this Gawd stuff is if it ends up driving away 1/3 of the people they know. Is their God really good? Why does preaching his word drive away the thinking people? Something for these zombies to think about...

[PittLib]

23. Kind of an aside ... but -

I haven't been back to my favorite wateringhole since the gay, bi-racial, raised on a military base in Japan owner Limbaugh-ed me (meaning screamed in my face every time I tried to speak, accused me of thinking that I'm better/smarter than everyone AND insisted on calling me "you people") after bringing up politics in the first place.

[newspeak]

25. hypocrites?

Maybe he should read "Sex in History" by Tannenbaum. Great book. You know in the Catholic church, wants upon a time, it was a greater sin to have sex with a woman then it was to have sex with another man. And abortion, a dirty little secret in history. Today, the different is it's out in the open where it should be. And of course, a male child was more valuable than a female child. Maybe you should tell him that both Hitler and Hirohito banned abortion, I wonder why. Then there's Ceausceu (sp?) in Romania-what was that? Women in Romania were to bear at least five children? You know why the adoptions after the split of the Soviet Union in Romania, because of his maniacal legacy. Of course, white babies, preferable superior for that superior Aryan race?

[newspeak]

26. newspeak

oops, that's "once upon a time".