Hugo Chavez is the next MLK, I realise that you don't know it yet

[Melodybe]

so I figured that I should be the one to tell you.

Don't believe me?

Well...

Name one world leader who has done all of these things in the last 5 years other than Hugo Chavez.

If you don't agree, answer these five questions and tell me what one person has done all those things on a global scale?

______________________________________________________

In the last five years...

Who else has stood up and damanded to have the same time as Bush?

Who else has been heroically applauded by the world's diplomats for eviscerating Bush at the UN?

Who else has stood up to the big oil companies and said NO?

Who else has been offering a beautiful and glorious religous voice to the left?

Who else has had the nerve to call Bushco and the United States out for being an empire of terrorism, not back down once?


____________________________________

Hugo Chavez is the only political leader on Earth to do all those things.

I'm telling you, if you disagree, you just don't know Chavez.




Here is Chavez's recent interview with Ted Koppel

By the way props to Ted Koppel for even doing the interview in the first place. It could have been better but Chavez steals the show anyway.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/International/story?id=1134098&page=1

Chavez:

I've been in revolt for years against ignominy, against injustice, against inequality, against immorality, against the exploitation of human beings.

One of the greatest rebels, who I really admire: Christ. He was a rebel. He ended up being crucified. He was a great rebel. He rebelled against the established power that subjugated. That is what rebellion is; it's rebellion out of love for human beings. In truth, that is the cause, the cause of love: love for every human being, for every women, for every child, for every man, for every brother.

I believe you to be a brother. I don't see you as above or below. I don't feel superior or inferior to you. We're on an equal basis. Your cameraman, your photograph are equal. The men and women who are seeing you, who are seeing us are equal. They're true brothers.

(snip)

We love the people of the United States, and our desire is to have a world of brothers in peace. God grant that that be the case.



*************************************************
If you dislike Chavez's references to Christianity, let me ask you, did it both you when Martin Luther King referred to god?

Just asking.


*************************************************


OR HERE:

Hugo Chavez eviscerates Bush at the UN, gets cheering and applause from all the world diplomats!

It is the best article ever!

I love Hugo Chavez!

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-un-chavez,0,3395650.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

Enjoy every truthful word!

Please nominate this, I want to get the word out on Chavez. Unfortunately, the USA has been brainwashed into thinking that Latin America is only contribution to world politics can be criminals and dictators. I think that is repulsive and vile, it should stop.

So please, have an open mind, and give Chavez a chance you won't be sorry.

PS, sorry that is kind of a repost, but I'm on a mission.

[Beam Me Up]

1. need to fix the link. page not found.

[Melodybe]

3. Done, copy and paste always messes it up

[applegrove]

2. Mel - relax. He seems to be a good egg. He is a politician so immediately

we know he is not perfect. (That should be obvious with any human being but somehow these days we have to remind ourselves).

Chavez gets huge reporting and support. People all over the world know who he is and what things he is trying to do for a hugely rich and hugely unequal country.

He is in the news all the time.

Weekly.

So relax.

We know this. We do not need it force fed. He is a good politician who seems to care about all the people. And he is constantly baited by the Rove WH.

He will be in the news next week.

Relax.

Not up to you to make Chavez.

[Melodybe]

4. true but he is the most important person on the left right now

I want introduce him to as many people as possible.

Plus he is the next MLK, mark my words.

[applegrove]

6. He's a politician. MLK was a minister. You cannot compare the two

personalities (corrected for personal foibles). He is not MLK. He is not. He is just a leader. Shows you what a vacum we face. He is just a good leader.

[Melodybe]

7. I'm still getting the word out though.

[Carla in Ca]

26. And that is a good thing. Go for it...but

there is no one who is the next MLK. There may be some similarities and I liked his rant at the UN but I can't agree with you on that one.
I appreciate your spirit though!:hi:

[1932]

34. I disagree with this.

Chavez is changing an entire continent for the better.

I guess in the same way you couldn't say MLK was the next Bolivar, you couldn't say Chavez is the next MLK. But it's very true to say that Gandhi, Bolivar, MLK, Lincoln, Washington, all have a lot in common.

[1932]

20. I read that Robert Kennedy was seriously considering picking MLK as his VP

[applegrove]

22. They had vision. I'm trying to think who was assasinated first - don't

remember - it was before my time.

If ever there was a reason for gun control - loosers with guns assasinating valued leaders was it.

[1932]

29. RFK's speech in Indianappolis the night MLK was shot is famous.

[applegrove]

30. Have not read up on that time.

[bobbieinok]

36. MLK in April 1968; Robert in June 1968

1968 was a horrible, unbelievable year

LBJ announces on national TV he will not seek re-election so democratic nomination up for grabs

Eugene McCarthy knocked LBJ out of the race and then Bobby came in .... there was a lot of bad feeling about Bobby's opportunism

then in August the Soviets crushed the Prague Spring (an opening up of society in Czechoslovakia) the same week as the Democratic National Convention where the Chicago cops went on a rampage

[applegrove]

42. Yes - many people talk about that time in their life - authors & such.

Perhaps someday - we will talk about these dark days. And be reminded of how we learnt to take stock of what was really important in governance and what is really important to fight for. And how delicate democracy really is.

[charlyvi]

97. MLK was assassinated first. Here's RFK's speech.

In fact, RFK was in Indianapolis when it happened; he gave a speech to the black community there and was credited with quelling a potentially explosive situation. It was a time of inner city riots; RFK gave a wonderful speech "as a white man" and reached across racial lines that night. Here's an MP3 of the speech:

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/robertkennedyonmartinlutherking.html

It brings back so many memories!

[rman]

86. Chavez holds similar principals as MLK - it's not about personality.

Also Chavez being "just a leader" instead of a minister does not make him any less valuable.

[1932]

19. Don't realax. Keep up the enthusiasm.

There aren't enough heroes for the left out there. When we find one, we should be enthusiastic.

[applegrove]

25. I have nothing against enthusiasm. But when someone gets frustrated

at "lack of enthusiams" on a particular day and tries to call it racism - I say relax. Some days some stories fly. Others - not so much. DU is too big. Things get lost.

[1932]

31. I don't see that in the OP.

I just see justified enthusiasm.

[applegrove]

32. I was going on yesterday's thread. My bad.

[zippy890]

5. that was a good interview with Koppel

I'm impressed with Chavez.

[Melodybe]

9. he's awesome!

[blonndee]

8. I for one am glad you're posting stuff about Chavez. I'm liking getting

to know more about him. =)

[ugarte]

10. I'm afraid he'll end up like MLK

That's usually what happens to people who tell the truth.

[Melodybe]

12. well, Chavez is in the same kind of position as Castro but with more

friends.

I don't think that Bushco is powerful enough to take out Chavez.

Also since Chavez has repeatedly said that bushco wants to kill him, specifically I think that it's gotten to hard for them to do it.

[ugarte]

14. I hope and pray you're right

You can bet the Venezuelan elite have a hefty price on Chavez's head, however. Just takes one Judas.

[Melodybe]

15. True, but they wouldn't get away with it cause he already fingered them

[Cocoa]

11. he sounds more like Shaft

Who's the black private dick
That's a sex machine to all the chicks?
SHAFT!
Ya damn right!

Who is the man that would risk his neck
For his brother man?
SHAFT!
Can you dig it?

Who's the cat that won't cop out
When there's danger all about?
SHAFT!
Right On!

They say this cat Shaft is a bad mother
SHUT YOUR MOUTH!
I'm talkin' 'bout Shaft.
THEN WE CAN DIG IT!

He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but his woman
JOHN SHAFT!

[Melodybe]

13. Shaft is cool too.

[alittlelark]

16. I DO believe it. The fact that he has a country to protect him

gives him a decent chance. Those w/ the ability to rouse sheep out of their slumber are routinely 'taken out' by the shepards.

[DemInDistress]

17. We can all help Hugo Chavez at least a little help

When possible I fill my gas tank from a CITGO station.Ther're owned
by Venezuela..Screw BP,Exxon and the rest...

[Selatius]

18. He'll be more like MLK if Chavez ends up assassinated.

MLK had great influence in the US, but that didn't stop his assassination.

Chavez is great, in my mind, not just because he's not afraid to call out Bush but because he has a proven record of fighting for the people. His programs to invest in the poor, the busting up of the corruption in PDVSA, his intention to reinvest that oil wealth back into a population that has been living in crushing poverty for decades even though that oil wealth was more than enough to alleviate that poverty--these are what make me impressed most about Chavez. His anti-greed, pro-people stance has made him a force to reckon with in Venezuelan politics and perhaps that part of the world.

The only question is what will the US federal government do about it?

[enid602]

21. Chavez

I like a lot of what Chavez said, and how can you not admire someone who has shown so much tenacity in standing up to Bushco. I think his assertions with re: to the 'Balboa' plan should be taken seriously here in the US.

That said, I'm not yet sure that Chavez won't end up being another banana republic dictator. If it weren't for the high price of oil, I don't think he'd have a voice on the world stage. Will he back up his commitment to democracy by gracefully ceding power after democratic elections, or become yet another romantic yet quixotic Latin American president for life?

Lula in Brazil and Kirchner in Argentina, though not as flashy, have done an admirable job in creating tremendous economic growth in their respective economies, while at the same time enacting progressive legislation. Both work tirelessly against Bushco. Neither country has much in terms of petroleum reserves, but neither imports petroleum, either.

[blonndee]

23. "ceding power after democratic elections?"

He won democratic elections, no?

[enid602]

24. power

Doesn't mean he'll give up power afterwards.

[blonndee]

28. Elaborate, please? Saw you posted this elsewhere. n/t

[enid602]

35. Chavez

Chavez has been democratically elected twice. No question about that. I just have some reservations about his commitment to democracy. His respect for Castro is not unlike that shown by other Latin American leaders; Latin Americans never gave up on their Cuban brothers and sisters. But Chavez goes further than most. I just wonder if he won't model his tenure after Castro, who, though revered by many, has never hesitated in using brutal force, and continues to fight windmills at the expense of the populace.
On the other hand, I see someone like Lula, who (despite having to quit school in the tenth grade) has proven able to represent the poor while encouraging foreign investment and rapid economic growth. He's not quite as revolutionary as Chavez, but realizes that without tremendous natural resources, Brazil will have to work extra hard to make it in the modern world.

[1932]

48. Do you have any concrete examples of your reservations.

Chavez probably welcomes as much foreign investment per capita as Brazil. They have co-development deals in every oil field they drill. Just a couple weeks ago there was a story discussed at DU filled with quotes from an investment seminar for American companies in Venezuela at which Chavez spoke.

Venezuela's economic growth has been very good and it has been due not just to oil but to hard work and smart spening on infrastructure, health care and social services which will continue to reap reqards into the future.

[Melodybe]

40. Doesn't mean his people won't want to keep him afterwards.

His people LOVE him, not since Che Guevara has the third world and Latin America had such a strong voice and they show up for him in the millions.

[1932]

33. After his first election, he proposed a constitution, which required

a second election which produced a government that wrote the constitution. The new constitution, once passed, didn't require a subsequent election, but Chavez dissolved his government and ran again. So he responded to democracy when the law didn't even require it.

In fact, his party has won 8 elections by increasing margins since 1998.

There's nothing in his history that suggest he wouldn't respect the constitution (which I believe would term limit him after one more election).

All this is in this book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1920888004/qid=1127112192/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-0913486-6351016?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Melodybe]

37. that is why I said what I did about racism

Why is it that you would auto-matically suspect that he may become a dictator?

I don't think you're racist or anything, yo, this is not a slam on you. I personally think that Americans have been conditioned to think that leaders in South America have no potential to be anything but dictators, thugs, and criminals.

Chavez won a fair election and his people love him. He speaks about brotherhood and peace, just because he was a solider doesn't mean that he is a dictator or ever will be.

that is why I brought up racism.

[1932]

43. And it's funny because the real thugs are the US and the dictators we've

supported and the Spanish empire supported.

So, when someone comes along who presents a clear alternative, they have to endure comparisions to bad people whose mess they're trying to correct.

[rman]

87. "end up"? - Chavez is in power for what, 4 or 5 years now.

He's had plenty of time to "end up" as a dictator - but didn't. He has been overwhelingly victorious in several elections (including a recall referendum). And like the leaders you mention Chavez to has been doing good for the economy of his country, while enacting pogressive policies.

[ladylibertee]

27. Seems like a nice guy.Pat Robertson wants him dead though. LOL

[Nothing Without Hope]

38. Excellent photo essay on Chavez vs Bush from a few weeks back:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4439697

[liveoaktx]

39. Vid Clip and MP3s of Chavez Speech at the UN

Video

Overlay of Translator with Spanish Mp3

English (Translator) MP3

Spanish MP3

[RagingInMiami]

41. The only problem is

He's not American.

EDIT: So it would be a stretch to call him the next MLK.

[T Town Jake]

44. Chavez is a communist asshat...period.

(n/t)

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[T Town Jake]

46. Chavez is a communist asshat...period.

(n/t)

[Melodybe]

49. Back it up then buddy, give me some links, otherwise

don't shit on my thread.

[T Town Jake]

50. Chavez is a communist asshat...period.

(n/t)

[Melodybe]

51. Put up or shut up, pal

[T Town Jake]

52. Chavez is a communist asshat...period.

(n/t)

[wmills551]

77. t town jake is a junior high student....period.

[Melodybe]

78. Do you know for sure or are you assuming?

If you know for sure, I'm sorry for any foul language I may have used earlier.

I curse like a sailor when not in the presence of children, I should work on it, I know.

[T Town Jake]

79. LOL...hello, newbie...

(n/t)

[1932]

53. Chavez is defnitely not a communist.

He has said that there's only one industry that he wants to remain nationalized -- PDVSA, and PDVSA is hardly centrally planned. It operates as market-driven operation and the managers have a great deal of control over how the business is operated. So not only does Venezuela not have a planned economy when it comes to the one nationalized industry, it has no interest in ever having a centrally-planned economy.

As for Castro being a communist, the funny thing is until the late 60s I don' think Castro had but two Marxists in his entire government. And, according to Richard Gott, Castro doesn't even have much to do with the running of Cuba anyomore. Half the civil servants in Cuba are in their 30s or younger (IIRC) so they're twice removed from the Sierre Madre rebel generation. Furthermore, there are four powerful positions in the goverment -- basically, president, secretary of defense, secretary of agrculture and one other position. Gott says each of those positions is held by very competent, very autonomous administrators. Castro bashing since the mid 90s sure is fun, but it's really not very relevant to understanding what Cuba is today.

[T Town Jake]

54. Chavez is a communist asshat...period.

(n/t)

[1932]

55. Yes. Except that he's neither a communist nor an asshat.

But other than that, you're exactly right.

So, put down the pipe, and go to bed.

[T Town Jake]

61. Chavez is a communist asshat...period.

(n/t)

[1932]

66. "period" or "repeat bar"?

[T Town Jake]

71. Chavez is a communist asshat...period.

(n/t)

[1932]

72. So I've heard.

[T Town Jake]

75. Chavez is a communist asshat...period.

(n/t)

[burythehatchet]

80. the Yahoooo message board is that way

and 7th grade study hall is just past the boys room. You, dear friend, are the kind of person that has made this country a foul place.

[T Town Jake]

82. Yeah, but..Chavez is STILL a communist asshat...

...all that silly blather ya got going there notwithstanding.

Peddle it elsewhere, slim.

[Dutch]

88. Just ignore it

Making an idiotic remark and then endlessly repeating it rather than substantiating it is a pretty effective way to win attention- although the fact that some people crave any attention, however negative, is as sad as it is puzzling.

[burythehatchet]

94. done

childhood neglect is not easy to overcome.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

100. Yo. T Town Jake. The capital of Slovakia is Bratislava. Did you know that?

[Melodybe]

56. Guevara was the only real communist to ever work in the Cuban government

as far as I am concerned.

[1932]

57. Che didn't trust democracy at all.

IIUC, he believed that it was inevitable that people with economic power (corporations) would be able to convince people to vote against their best interests and so that it was acceptable for a government interested only in helping the people to rule without the occassional democratic referendum on whether they should continue in power.

[Melodybe]

58. he is right about that

I love Che.

[1932]

65. Except that Chavez's party MVR has one eight consecutive elections.

And we're seeing liberal parties hang on all over the world despite probably this being the most hostile moment since 1932 for liberal governments.

[T Town Jake]

59. Che worked for Castro...

...whom legitimate liberal John Fitzgerald Kennedy (President, U.S., 1961-63), despised.

'Nuff said.

[1932]

62. Hello.

Recently, Castro said that JFK was his favorite president of all the ones he dealt with. He said he had a great deal of respect for JFK.

Also, Bay of Pigs was an Eisenhower-era plot and JFK refused to give it air coverage, which was a big reason it failed.

In Richard Gott's book on Cuba, he either states or suggests that the reason the US has not invaded Cuba was becaus in Kennedy made a binding promise with Castro that the US would never invade as part of the Cuban Missile Crisis resolution. That's not how you treat your enemies.

So it's not "'nuff" to say it. You actually have to have the facts on your side too.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Melodybe]

68. NA NA NA I'm not reading anything that you type.

[T Town Jake]

69. Bravo for you...

...you're a real American hero...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[T Town Jake]

67. Good for Fidel. JFK despised him...

...and "Operation Mongoose" was, well, what would you call it? It was appropriate, to be sure. Who ran it?

Please play with the truth for once, not latter day 2005 :tinfoilhat: fantasies.

Thanks.

[1932]

70. Bobby Kennedy hated Castro, as did the Washington CIA.

That's true. I believe that Gott said that. Gott also quotes CIA officers from the Havanna office in 1959 who all said they really liked Castro. They said their office was full of Fidelistas and it wasn't because they had a relationship with him. It was because they saw the damage Batista was doing to the country and believed that Castro would stabilize it by making sure poor people weren't exploited. They were right. Compared to pre-1959 Cuban politics (a series of coups, mostly with greed dominating politics), Castro has been very stabilizing.

Anyway, back to the Kennedys. RFK was a little crazy before his brother died and he went to Appalachia and South Africa and started really carring about african americans. He was a hyper-moralist who hated communists and the mafia.

But everyone in JFK's cabinet, including Bobby Kennedy, and including McGeorge Bundy, and George Ball and everyone else told JFK to launch a strike on Cuba, and JFK said no.

I have not read anything anywhere that suggests that JFK had a personal grudge against Castro, and Castro liked him.

In Richard Parker's Galbraith biography, he said that Galbraith believed that Kennedy, after 17 months in office, was seriously interested in focussing on development rather than anti-communism (and not the kind of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man development, but real development). Parker quotes funny letters Kennedy wrote to Galbraith before he was elected, where Kennedy reveals an obvious distaste for the CIA's pro-empire shenanigans. (At about that time, JFK gave a speech in the Senate so critical of colonialism in Algiers that Adlai Stevension, at the time a lawyer for an investment bank making money off colonialism, got very angry with Kennedy.

Furthermore, there are many sources of information about Kennedy's Alliance for Progress that you should read if you really want to understand what Kennedy was working towards in the developing world.

[T Town Jake]

73. Bobby Kennedy was a legitimate liberal...

...and a true American hero. Had he lived to win the 1968 election, and been sworn in as President on January 20, 1969, we would be living in a very different - and better - country right now.

And he still would've sneered at communists like Che, Castro, and Chavez.

You need to enroll in a legitimate University, and go through a series of genuine history courses. And then get back to me...

[Dutch]

89. I think virtually any university

Will expect you to back up wild assertions with some kind of evidence, something you have proved pitifully unable to do. Although to judge by your contributions to this thread, your idea of a "legitimate" University would probably be best represented by Bob Jones.

[Theres-a]

96. genuine history classes?

Like the ones in the dumbed downed schools across the country?It's all going down the memory hole as we speak,no?

[1932]

98. You need to go no farther than the PBS special on Robert Kennedy

that was on TV last year to learn that Bobby Kennedy changed a great deal between his brother's assassination and his run for president.

Most people who knew him didn't find him to be a great liberal before that transition. They thought he was a narrow-minded, mean spirited moralist.

[Qibing Zero]

99. Well now it makes more sense.

Someone is still stuck in the red scare. Move along, nothing to see here.

[1932]

60. However, Che also believed that Cuba needed to diversify its economy.

He wanted Cuba to build factories so that they could turn their raw materials into finished products.

Russia talked Castro into focussing only on sugar. That was great for Cuba in years when sugar prices were high, but it was awful for Cuba when prices dropped and, ultimately, when the soviet union collapsed.

Had Cuba gone the direction Che advocated, it would have been in a much better position today.

This is all in Richard Gott's book Cuba: A New History.

[Melodybe]

63. I know, Che in the sugar fields and factories

showed that unlike so many others, he definitely walked the walk.

[ladylibertee]

47. Great man, but No. So not MLK...Not MLK great

[morgan2]

74. The best part about the Iraq War

is that it kept Chavez off of the neocons radar for a few years. They were all too busy feeding at the reconstruction trough in Iraq to plan the downfall of Chavez. Now he has really enfirmed himself in power in Venezuela, and the world's mind, so it would be very hard to kill the movement he has helped start in South America.

[Melodybe]

76. Yep, he is quickly getting to powerful for Bushco to just kill

if they fucked with him, the whole world would be down their throats.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. I Have To Read More About Chavez

from third party sources that are neither on the left or right and draw a conclusion...


As long as he's democratically elected and doesn't persecute the opposition I don't have a big problem with him...


Will he change Venezuelan history the way MLK changed American history?

We shall see...

[Melodybe]

83. He already has

look into it.

I have yet to see it but the documentary "the revolution will not be televised" is all about Chavez and is apparently very accurate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. "He already has"

Has what?


Like I said I don't know enough about Hugo Chavez to make an informed decision but I do know that he hasn't had the impact on Venezuela that MLK had on American history...


Let's give it some time....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. I Should Add My Three Political Idols Are

JFK, RFK, and MLK...

[Melodybe]

90. Well I think the whole oil money for the poor

is a pretty good step.

As for your idols, they rule! You have good taste.

[rman]

91. Already has changed Venezuelan history

Amomgst other things, during his reign he has broken the elite monopoly on the economy, who were hoarding the oil wealth. Also he has all but eliminated illiteracy.

Btw, if i were you i'd be suspicious of anyone claiming to be neither left nor right (and thus supposedly objective). I'd say read/listen to what both sides have to say about Chavez and draw your own conclusions.
On the one hand there's Hannity, Cheney, Pat Robertson - i guess you pretty much know what they have to say about Chavez. On the other hand there are various non-mainstream media, such as www.democracynow.org, www.gregpalast.com, www.venezuelaanalysis.com.

www.chavezthefilm.com

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. MLK Spearheaded The Movement That Broke Jim Crow

That's quite an accomplishment.....


My take on Chavez and other elected leftist leaders....


As long as they are democratically elected, allow opposition parties, fair elections, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, habeas corpus , private property* they are fine with me...


* I am of the opinion that a nation's national resources should be used for the good of all the people but at the same time I am opposed to the wholesale appropriation of private property... The ch allege is to strike an equitable balance......

[rman]

95. Chavez is not a communist;

he'd be crazy to baby-sit *all* economic activity. So yes, for all i know private property is allowed, and there is differentiation in income.
My sources tell me Chavez allows all the conditions you mention. I should point out that those opposed to Chavez don't usually claim that any of those are not the case, rather they just claim Chavez is insane and/or a communist ass and/or that his followers are blind ideologues.

[julianer]

92. It's not going to be easy to find an unbiased

sources.

I get my news about Venezuela from

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/

This is mostly pro-Chavez but seems accurate and fair. It doesn't distort the opposition's arguments, though it is quite dismissive of them for the most part.

He has had a massive effect in Venezuela already - he ushered in the new constitution (more details at the site linked above).

[Blackwater]

101. Not the next MLK,

but he is certainly well on his way to becoming the Robert Mugabe of South America. Give him enough time and he will turn Venezuela into one of the most backward countries in the world.

Fascism sucks.