I need advice please

[koopie57]

1) I have struggled with depression and thoughts of suicide.

2) My daughter has struggled with depression, suicide, hospitalization, etc.

I am a psychology major and know a little, learned a lot, but am not a professional nor feel confident handing out advice. I do my best and most generally listen rather than act.

So, my son's girlfriend has been struggling with depression.

1) Her parents have got her help, but it is through their church. She hates her counselor, which may or may not be a bad thing. It is my understanding that sometimes people hate the counselors who are the most effective.

2) She is the same age as when my daughter started struggling.

3) She is scared of her parents and from talking to them I can't help but feel what the kids tell me is true.

a) One night my son came home and gave me a hug and said thank you for never yelling at me. He said I know you get angry at me, but you never yell. He says that her parents yell at her all the time. That is the way the converse with her. They say that her older brother can do no wrong and I sort of got that same idea from visiting with her parents. They call her a whore cuz she has many male friends and don't like my son cuz he is a male who spends time with her.

Tonight my son came upstairs and said he was going to Katie's. I was surprised cuz they had spent the afternoon together and he had came home about 6 to do homework. I looked up and he was crying and said he was going to Katie's. I asked why and he said she was threatening suicide. I told him that he could go but I would drive and he was okay with that.

Anyway, he called her and asked her to come outside. He didn't want her to know he was coming till he was there, plus we were not sure how her folks would react if he rang the bell. I told him to say he forgot a book or his cell phone and just wanted to pick it up. Anyway, they talked. She was cutting herself, using a sissors. Brian told her not to hurt herself and she said it wouldn't hurt which I took to mean she would overdose.

Anyway, they came to the car and I gave her a hug and she felt clammy. I had thought maybe she was just talking smart but once I saw her I felt it was more than an attention grabbing situation. I asked if I could come in and talk to her parents, she said no. I asked if I could call someone, and she said no. I made her promise not to hurt herself tonight and in the morning to talk to her school counselor. She promised not to hurt herself tonight. I told Brian each day to make her promise that. I explained to her that it was only temporary and she will feel better, that there is help for her and I told her both my daughter and I have been there and have come through.

My question is, did I say okay things? And what do I do? I'm the adult. These are high school kids. I feel it is more serious than attention grabbing. I think she hurts bad. But I don't feel her parents will help, and might make it worse. Should my son tell a counselor? He has good instincts.

Anyway, this is long and to whoever has taken the time to listen, thank you very much. Listening is so important.

[smartvoter]

1. Can you call the school counselor and tell them what your concerns

are? If they get involved, they may be able to get her some help -- around her parents, if need be.

[Ioo]

2. Please find her Help ASAP What ever it takes..

ALl I ask is please find her help, I lost a real good friend in life because we did not say anything, we allowed him to vent, and we took his word that he was okay, and he killed himself.

Please find her some help, please.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

3. Wow- Pretty complicated.

I think I would have asked her to
come to my home and stayed up with her
all night.

Clammy- had she already taken something?
Frightening situation.

Have you met her parents at all?

[kentuck]

4. I would offer to take her to dinner....

and get some warm soup or something... And let her know that there are some people that care about her. I think when it gets to the point when she thinks there is no one, that is the most dangerous. Just my thoughts.

[are_we_united_yet]

5. I would recommend

calling a suicide hotline immediately. Don't hesitate.

[smartvoter]

7. Yes. This is a good idea. Should have said this first. nt

[niyad]

6. I have just gotten off the phone with a friend who is also depressed and

bordering on suicidal. As you said, listening is important, as is, in most cases, being gentle and kind. I think you did much the best that could be done, especially if her parents refuse to acknowledge what is going on.

Please know that there are people out here who are listening, who do care. Hang in there, and know that you have reared some very special children. Your Brian seems to be very compassionate and caring, and that is wonderful. I will hope that Katie will feel safe enough to reach out for the caring that is out there, and hang on.

Please let us know how things are going.

[alittlelark]

8. Tommorrow morning call the school counselor

Express your concern as you have here. You still have decent schools in MN, odds are you will find the counselor is open. If not call the district supervisor. If this can be done through the school, it should be. You will be anonymous.


Good Luck - I've dealt w/ a similar issue. It didn't work out. ;(

[smartvoter]

9. "It didn't work out." Does that mean what I think it means? nt

[applegrove]

10. I don't know what to say. I have not been there per se. Find a team

who can help you on your journey. Find a team for your kids. And allow your daughter to make her own mistakes and live her life according to what she knows and lives.

There is help out there.

Keep searching. And at some point you will find that the wonder is not in what you want - the wonder is in the journey.

I've had a really tough life. But I keep in mind the many ways in which I am lucky. And anything harsh I face at this point - makes me all the happier on the days i do not face horrors. My life is full. Filled with love & memories. Filled with the little things. Filled with helping others in the ways I can. Filled with hope & dreams.

[happyslug]

11. CALL CYS TODAY.

She is CUTTING HERSELF? Has she told her Counselor? Probably not, and if not someone should tell the Counselor (You are as good as the next person). Furthermore she needs professional help. I would report this incident to your local Children and Youth Service (OR what ever is the local name for your county's CYS organization). If she is under age 18 she is under CYS jurisdiction and CYS has the right AND DUTY to investigate. This is serious and I hate to say something best treated by a professional. Your School Counselor is out of her or his league in such a situation as is the Church Counselor. Furthermore CYS has the authority to intervene against what her family wants if what the family wants is going to endanger her (That is the key to CYS involvement, is the child "Endangered"?) A mere dispute on what how a family raises their children is NOT endangerment, unless it raises to the level that the child is endangered.

Now the only way to investigate this problem is through CYS. CYS is the agency authorized by Law to protect children. Now CYS can NOT just go into a family and intervene because the family is raising their children under terms most people disagree with, but can do so if the method "endangers" the child. CALL CYS.

Here is the Child Abuse National Hot Line Phone Number:
Childhelp USA National Child Abuse Hotline
1-800-4-A-CHILD
(1-800-422-4453)
TDD: 1-800-2-A-CHILD

The Official Name for Minnesota's CYS appears to be:
Minnesota Child Protective Services.

No 1-800 number is listed so look it up the name in your area.

[applegrove]

12. Find a counselor who is a fit. And make sure nobody interferes.

Sometimes it takes a while to find the right person. Sometimes it happens right off the bat. It could be a religious counsellor. It could be a psychologist. It could even be a psychiatrist. It could be someone trained in secular counselling.

And best of luck. There are amazing people out there in the helping professions. Tell them to keep looking.

[happyslug]

13. I regret changing my thread after you posted your response.

But as I looked over the thread I had to make the need to report to Minnesota Child Protective Service clear. This child has some severe problem evidenced by her cutting herself. Even if her Church Counselor is the best counselor is the world (and many religious counselors are) such counselors can NOT order the family to change their ways to protect the child. Family Protective Services can, and as bad as this sounds Family Protective Services has to at least review the child's situation and make sure the child is NOT harmed by her situation.

Now once the child turns 18 she can get help herself (and I strongly recommend it) but as a child she can NOT go to seek Psychological help today. Thus Child Protective Services can over-rule the family when it comes to such help if the family is objecting to such help for any reason.

Now my thread started as a statement on avoiding right wing religious counselors (While encouraging her to see Catholic, Main line Protestant, Jewish Counselors). I did Children and Youth many years ago and do Child Custody cases (and Protection from abuse cases) today. I have found most religious counselors are good and good for the person receiving the Counseling. My problem has been with Counselors from Right Wing Fundamentalist Church's (and I include with such fundamentalist the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Scientologists) whose counselors are self-educated or worse educated within their religion without any input from professional Psychologist or Psychiatrists (The Mainline Protestant and Catholic Counselors tend to be better educated and have had some training input by Psychologists and Psychiatrists, I have heard the same about Jewish and other religions but have no personal experiences with such counselors).

I wanted to say the above in my thread but it interfered with my comments to report the situation with Minnesota Child Protective Services and as such I deleted it after you had made you comments. I regret the change for it makes your comment sound like it was NOT a response to what my thread said. Your comment had been but do to my deletion it no longer does. That is my fault and I wish to apologies over the change and explain why I am NOT changing my previous thread back.

[applegrove]

14. To be truthful - I heard your opening and did not read down the thread.

I gave you advice based not on the ebb of the discussion - but from what I know.

If a kid is cutting themselves - yes - some real serious intervention needs to take place. The reason I am for religious counselling is because there are some people who do soul care out there who will take this girl and love her. For sure you need someone qualified. You also need someone who is "there". Many counselllors of all types can be "there".

I do not know what it is like in the USA. In Canada - the church is not such a big deal. Evangelicals make up only a small percentage. And yes - someone who hates gays should never be allowed near a person or a child dealing with "coming out" or issues of gender preferance.

But there is love among some of the true christians out there. But when things are serious - yes - the right intervention is the most important thing.

[koopie57]

15. I want to thank all of you

who put in your opinions and thoughts. I have found a crisis center hotline and gave the number to my son to call and to give to her. Tomorrow I'm going to call them and ask them what they can do and how we need to go about things if Katie does not choose to call them on her own.

I never felt such a cold fear in my bones before. I touched her skin and heard her voice and it was not familiar, it was not the girl I have come to know.

I know with my daughter, I am in charge and can call who I need to and do whatever I feel I need to so that she has the care she needs. I also understand how scary it is, frustrating, and the anger that goes along with it.

Katie's folks are different. I worry about doing something that might end up in her not getting the help she needs and having to deal with her folks. I think they are good people and if they understood they would do the right thing, but to risk things and then not getting through to them.

I'm going to try to get her permission first to call someone or tell someone. I will take the blame or the anger of her folks, if she will let me. But I think I'll tell her if she doesn't give me permission but I feel she is hurting too much I will do what I need to do to keep her safe.

I believe she is safe tonight. Tonight is the first hurdle. Thank you for your support and suggestions and caring. Every idea has possibilities, every post means someone cares. It is all good and thank you. Brian says thank you too.

[Lethe]

16. good luck i hope things work out for her

sometimes in life we just need a friend to listen and maybe offer some words of encouragement. Sometimes we need some serious therapy.

i understand her not wanting to talk to a church counselor or her parents. I've been struggling with the same kinds of issues...depression, suicide. There is no way in hell I could ever talk to my parents about it. My parents are hardcore fundamental southern baptist christians, and any problem I have, the answer is always "prayer." If something is wrong, it's because I don't go to church enough, or I don't have enough faith, and if I just pray harder things will get better.

I don't know if her case is like that or not, but she probably needs to open up to someone she can trust.