Proof that something strange is going on in Iraq

[ck4829]

Violence erupted in Basra this afternoon following the arrest of two British soldiers for allegedly killing one policeman and wounding another.

British troops exchanged gunfire with protesters as two tanks were reportedly set on fire. Four civilians are said to have been wounded in the clashes.

The fighting broke out after two British soldiers, allegedly dressed as Arabs, opened fire on a police patrol killing one officer and wounding another.

The Ministry of Defense confirmed that two military personnel were detained by Iraqi authorities today, but would not comment on rumors that the soldiers were working undercover.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4819548&mesg_id=4819548

This may be tin foil coming from me, but this sounds like something that INSURGENTS would do.

[Captain Hilts]

1. I noticed the exact same thing. What's going on?

The Brits were supposed to be the Good Guys in the occupation.

And didn't the UK announce today they have no exit schedule????

[KerryOn]

33. The Brits are the good guys....

Look, its simple.

If the story is true, then the Iraq cops were probably not really cops, they were insurgents.

I could never understand why in the hell we are training Iraq civilians to be cops and soldiers. We have no way of knowing who the good guy is. Just like nam. We train them and they fight with us during the day, but at night they stab us in the back.

[CascadeTide]

54. that's the main reason it was a mistake to go in

that's why daddy bush didn't do it in 1991. sometimes father really does know best

[saigon68]

55. FREEDOM

IS ON THE MARCH </SARCASM>

[ContraBass Black]

2. Wait, what?

Run that by me again.

[ck4829]

11. Let me break it down for you. LOL.

British soldiers who were working undercover (AKA Guerrillas) opened fire on Iraqi cops.

:D

[ContraBass Black]

28. That raises a lot more questions than it answers.

:crazy:

[Toots]

30. Maybe they were buying Hashish

or trying to date some local girls without standing out. Why assume the very worst?

[MADem]

45. The Brits would use the Status of Forces Agreement in that case

...and they would be handed over for punishment to the occupying forces. Drugs or women would not cause the storming of a lockup. Those guys needed to be extracted, FAST, and gotten well away from there, for a serious reason.

No, this is something different, it is a Black Op gone badly wrong. It will probably be awhile before we know the truth of it, but if I had to guess, I would imagine that these guys were after a troublemaker, maybe not an insurgent, but someone whose views were perhaps a bit too Islamic for the new government, or were after someone they believe is cooperating with Iranians. Just a guess.

[Poiuyt]

37. Are we (or the Brits) trying to incite rioting and instability?

Do we know for a fact that this story is accurate?

[Sydnie]

3. WE are our own worst enemy? Could this be why we get these

conflicting statements from them? Cheney says "last throes" and then violence excalates?

Are WE pretending to be the insurgents ourselves to justify our staying there?

[arcane1]

6. we wouldn't do anything like THAT!

oh wait...

[leftofthedial]

4. many "insurgents" ARE bushturdgang mercenaries

BFEE in action

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. This confuses me

why would his gang WANT insurgents?

Not that anything would surprise me these days.

So humor me and explain. I sometimes don't do nuance too well.

[leftofthedial]

15. as long as there is chaos and war

they make money

they don't need "victory" in Iraq, they need the "war" to last indefinitely

[TallahasseeGrannie]

16. Okay, gotcha

makes me feel like puking, tho.

Geez. Evil.

[cynatnite]

17. Are you referring to Halliburton? n/t

[leftofthedial]

20. Halliburton, arms dealers, international pharmas

it's also good for the drug trade

[wtmusic]

24. exactly -- the "slow simmer"

too much violence, the public wants to bring the troops home. Too little, and it looks like the Iraqis have things under control.

[moodforaday]

52. Iran bait?

Could also be they're trying to destabilize the situation to a point where Iran will become involved, e.g. because the violence will spill over the border. This would be a perfect excuse to intervene in Iran.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Now will people see why we opened the gates

to the ammo dumps. We want a civil war in Iraq and if the Iraqis don't start one themselves, well I guess we will just have to help them along a little.

[Sunkiss BlueStar]

26. Civil War is Exactly what

I was thinking. They were going to kill all of those people and blame it on the Iranian/Syrian influence.

SICK:puke:

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. It seems at least in Basra today

That the Iraqis are finding out who the enemy really is and it isn't other Muslims.

[wtmusic]

7. The Brits just busted them out of jail

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4820809#4821022

:wtf:

[ck4829]

8. Oh yes, this needs to become a -gate type scandal now

[Pepper32]

9. WTF?

:beer: :tinfoilhat:

[ck4829]

12. Read this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4821425&mesg_id=4821499

[leftchick]

10. something fucked up has been going on in Iraq since 2003

This reminds me of Operation Phoenix in the Vietnam era. Nothing good ever happens in a senseless war for greed and power.

:grr:

[mirandaod]

13. And yet more evidence

that Iraq is on the way to hell in a bucket. And NOT enjoying the ride, either.
The Brits used to have things under some control down there. BAD, BAD, BAD.

[Why Syzygy]

18. "Military Personnel" are being

detained by Ira*qi "authorities". WHO THE HELL IS IN CHARGE HERE?

What has he done? WHAT? :cry:

[jokerman93]

19. Makes one wonder who

Makes one wonder who it was exactly who cried "suicide-bomber" in that huge gathering of muslim pilgrims two weeks ago. The alarm led to a crush and riot in which hundreds died. My immediate thought was "agents provocateur". Who knows anymore.

:shrug:

[eek]

21. Bingo. Agent provocateur

An agent provocateur (plural: agents provocateurs) is a person assigned to provoke unrest, violence, debate, or argument by or within a group while acting as a member of the group but covertly representing the interests of another. In general, agents provocateurs seek to secretly disrupt a group's activities from within the group.

An agent provocateur is often a police officer whose duty is to make sure suspected individual(s) carry out a crime to guarantee their punishment; or who suggests the commission of a crime to another, in hopes they will go along with the suggestion, so they may be convicted of the crime the provocateur suggested. The phrase comes from the French language, where it means, roughly, "inciting agent".
(snip)
Agents provocateurs are also used against political opponents. Here, it has been documented that provocateurs deliberately carry out or seek to incite counter-productive and/or ineffective acts, in order to foster public disdain for the group and provide a pretext for aggression; and to worsen the punishments its members are liable for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

[Minnesota_Lib]

29. NOLA Snipers=agent provocateurs?

Oddly enough, the term "agent provocateur" occurred to me just a couple of days ago while watching the news out of New orleans.

A doctor with a relief crew in New Orleans was being interviewed and he said their efforts were hampered by snipers taking shots at them. No one was ever hit but it was causing delays in the relief effort, he said.

Now, a couple of things struck me: 1.) what possible motive do these snipers have in taking pot shots at relief workers, and 2.) are they really that bad of shots that they always miss their targets? Something doesn't sound right here and I remembered that article about the Vermont NG being told by the local sheriff's officers to shoot to kill anyone they wanted, and the sheriff would cover it up. I have also heard that many NO residents' bodies are being found with bullet wounds and it is, of course, being attributed to these mysterious lawless snipers. How come they can hit the poor but consistently miss the doctors?

Ok, I am not much for wearing a tin-fold hat but something is rotten in Denmark. I am sure there were punks with guns running around early on but I also suspect that rouge cops were also shooting innocent people. The shootings were used by the feds as a convenient excuse for the delayed response (as if NG and SWAT units couldn't handle a few roving bands of punks LOL).

Anyway, the sniping is said to be continuing even today (or at least two days ago when this story aired) and I am starting to believe these latest incidents are not loony punks with guns shooting at people for no apparent reason but maybe feds attempting to keep the sniping stories alive and fresh in the minds of the media and therefore the public so as to perpetuate a mythological justification for Bushco/FEMA's initial foot-dragging. That would explain why medical and other relief workers never actually get hit by the bullets (they don't want to kill, just create a false climate of fear).

Yeah, sounds nutty but at this point I am willing to believe the worst.

[loudsue]

43. VERY lucid summary on your part...and exactly what I've been thinking

The "gangs with guns" story just hasn't been playing that well with me. The only people getting killed have been POOR BLACK PEOPLE.

:kick:

[eek]

49. You betcha. It is not tinfoilly to think this.

I don't recall that any of the sniper reports were firsthand.
It became an excuse, briefly, for not resuing anyone, though. Bought 'em a day.

Anyway, since when is a person or so with rifles going to stop law enforcement pros?

Those wild-eyed stories added to the "omigod it's wild, marauding negroes; grab the kids and flee for your lives " demonization bullsjit.

Riots make good eye candy, anyway.

One of the actual reporters down there finally said that the crazy snipers may've simply been people firing shots to get the attention of would-be rescuers.

Feh.

[arcane1]

22. any connection to THIS story?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1791134


one never knows, these days. All I know is that a chaotic Iraq is a profitable one, thus anyone causing chaos is serving the neocons, directly or indirectly

[OxQQme]

23. Can you say

Venezuela Death Squads.
The attempted un-seating of Chavez for the sake of raping that part of the world.
War is Peace (sarcasm)

[jokerman93]

25. Sounds like

Sounds like Negroponte's forte.

[Bok_Tukalo]

31. Hasn't there been a real problem with people

masquerading as police (or the police themselves) picking up individuals and offing them? I wonder if there is a connection with the undercover soldiers and what they were investigating.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050919/wl_mideast_afp/iraqunrestmedia_050919105926

[Cocoa]

32. this is beyond strange

when I first read this story, I thought I must have read it wrong.

And it is making less and less sense the more I think about it.

[sakabatou]

34. Are they trying to start a civil war?

[dbeach]

35. black ops or hired hands

endless wars for endles profits brought to ya by corporat world


war profiteering and mongering are the elites favorite method..before this movie is over..every war will be exposed as corporat lies

[Beam Me Up]

36. "every war will be exposed as corporat lies" ^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is one of the most 'on target' things I've ever read here.

Can the people of the world be united with this knowledge?

[TroubleMan]

38. Once again I'll refer to "War Is A Racket" by Maj Gen Smedley Butler

http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm

He knew even back then.

[dbeach]

40. war is hell ..ask any real combat Veteran

think of the scars both physical and emotional ask the families..now bush is ordering the VA to review the PTSD claims to grab theri money for his wars

http://www.tarpley.net/bush6.htm

bush sr ditched the plane..

[TroubleMan]

42. Actually by trying to redefine the PTSD benefits, they're trying to

downgrade war to "Heck."

[dbeach]

39. U sir have my salute

I am a Vet advocate

U would laff to hear WW II Vets denounce the CHIKENHAWK AWOL DESERTER TRAITOR guys in their 80s who see the coward for what he really is..the scion of privlege and wealth whose family is the biggest parasite on Freedom in world history and the parasite that may destroy us all..anybody who values Freedom needs to study the bush criminals and expose their war profiteerings ,dope runnin and many related crimes including the possible theft of 2 elections and 3 illegal wars : GWOT Iraq AFghanistan..Its TREASON when the executive lies the Nation into war..

He gots the bad discahrge.. he has the missing Guard records.

I have HONORABLE discharge.. served in VN and have witnesses who served with me. and have plenty of US Army records to prove it..WHERE IS the bush military records??

now the VA is reviewing PTSD claims to reduce disabilitys on the heros/heroines who served.. while the chickenhawks party on.. next target Iran or Syria or North Korea..THEY AIN'T MY ENEMIES..

Did I tell ya when poppy o ditched the plane and how he NEVER attends the USN reunions..wanna hear about the ole Polish Vet who scoffed at bush sr at the repuke convention and called him a liar and a murderer for killing his crew..

[RagingInMiami]

41. I wonder what Poland's role is in all this

[loudsue]

44. I believe the neocons WANT civil war: In Iraq, and in the USA

Why in the hell else would they frikkin' ARREST CINDY SHEEHAN just a few days before the huge anti-war rally in Washington, DC?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4820926

They're trying to START a civil war RIGHT HERE AT HOME, so they can use their new war machines for "crowd control".

Everything these monsters touch is going to come back at them....ten-fold.

:kick::kick::kick:

[dbeach]

50. THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE of the middle class

has neen a long term goal of the rulers who have appointed and annointed themselves the leaders of the world..If the middle class goes down..then the caos will be their excuse for Martial law and whatever else is in their sinister bag of tricks

[Polethebear]

56. I got a weird feeling it may already be.....

but when you get pepole like bush and the lot backed into a corner............

[ladylibertee]

46. There are about ten threads on this.We are well informed now.Thanks

[BikeWriter]

47. Same, same VietNam, fucked up beyond all repair.

[dbeach]

51. war mongers and chikenhawks

party hearty while the blood spills for corporat profits

Welcome Home!!

101st Ashau Valley

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

48. Actually, the fighting broke out the day before...

Not to rain on your parade or anything, but that much is well-documented.

[stickdog]

53. And the bombing of the UN way back when?

All part of neocons' self-proclaimed agenda of "creative destruction," IMHO.

[Name removed]

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