Do Clark, Kerry, Edwards Supporters understand what Clinton has Done?

[KoKo]

Clinton's incredible feel for timing has kicked in. He came out with his boxing gloves on at just the right moment..thereby overshadowing and stomping on the folks who were left to fight the fight for Dems when he abandoned Al Gore DURING the RECOUNT for 2000. (I understand that Gore distanced himself from Clinton during Campaign and why) but AFTER was when we Dems and Al REALLY NEEDED Clinton. He was popular in spite of Monica and he could have really helped us then and in the years after by pushing to get out what "really happened in Fla. with Katherine Harris).

So, Clinton appears with Evil Poppy then just a week or so later now is trashing Poppy's spawn.

What are we to make of this. Well, which Dems have been left "in the dust" by Clinton speaking out NOW?

How do supporters of Clark, Kerry, Edwards for '08 feel about this? Maybe my view is very dark and some of you are more hopeful? A Coalition? Hillary in and the rest get Cabinet Posts?

Lots of things to think about here, because the others allowed Clinton to DO HIS THING... Maybe they know what they are doing?

[neuvocat]

1. Huh?

I can't tell if you're trashing Clinton or praising him.

[DU me]

36. Do you suppose in the "world of conspiracy's" that Clinton is buying

Hillary's victory to the 08' election by standing side by side with the Administration to at some point - maybe now - make a break from them and starting more momentum for Hillary's support?

I have always suspected that Clinton is wiggling his way back into the WH by his continued support of Bushco and at the same time somewhat neutralized the Bush Supporters that hated Clinton. With Clinton "helping" and "supporting" Bushco, maybe Bush's supporters will soften on Hillary.....

[magnolia]

47. Are you nuts?

Clinton is neither helping or supporting Bush.

I don't know which of your ideas is more ridiculous. The one that implies that a dem could win the democratic nomination by cozying up to Bush...or...that Hillary would win over the right by having Bill cozy up to Bush.

[DU me]

53. Yep, I'm nuts

I don't believe that there are so clear a lines drawn between the L and the R when you get to the top of the heap. Furthermore, I am so nuts that I don't believe that the "top of the heap" is necessarily in the Oval Office in Washington DC. I am one of those nuts that believes there are mightier powers lurking in the shadows running our Government.

[Beam Me Up]

64. Me 2

Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[neuvocat]

55. I see.

I don't think he would bother doing that. However, I don't doubt that he is up to something in dealing with the Bushes.

[patrice]

2. I know I'm not supposed to be a single issue voter, but . . .

Hilary voted for this War. That's important to me.

Do they really imagine that we couldn't see what was happening, or that we think Hilary didn't see it either?

I'm sorry, but at this point, no thanks.

[magnolia]

49. Can we be clear on one thing?

Nobody voted FOR the war. They voted to give Bush authority as a last resort. Any president would want that and deserve during threatening times.

[Toots]

50. None of the Senators voted for the War

They voted to give Bush* authority if it became needed. It never became needed but Bush* went to war anyway. There is a difference between voting for war and voting to give someone authority to make that decision. Do you think you could honestly say that if Hillary or Kerry or Edwards or any Democratic Senator that voted for IWR, even Leiberman would have gone to war against Iraq if they had been President? I can not conceive of that being a reality myself. Bush* was of that mind before the election. President Clinton was asked by PNAC to attack Iraq and he would not. It was their agenda and they carried it out but don't blame it on Democratic Senators.

[patrice]

52. Your point is well made.

[Samantha]

66. I do hold them responsible

That authorization gave Bush* an immunity of sorts from prosecution of impeachment. I knew better than to give Bush* such authority. They are our leaders. They are supposed to be smarter than we. I believe if you took a poll on DU whether or not the majority of us would have been so feeble minded to entrust Bush* with such authority, you would find few who would have done so.

The tough part to swallow is that how could they have been deceived by Bush* when they are the politically educated, so to speak. They too need to be held accountable for surrendering their Constitutional authority to declare war to a person sitting in the White House under extremely questionable (and that's being charitable) electoral legitimacy.

I am sorry; I just don't think you can defend our Democrats on this one. I recently read that Bush* lied to Kerry about the evidence of weapons of mass destruction. If Bush* had come to my home, sat down and tried to convince me we were under threat of attack by Iraq, I wouldn't have believed a word he said.

If you can't believe a man would tell the truth about an election, why would you believe he would tell the truth about a war?

[shimmergal]

59. Do you really think Bush wouldn't have

gone to war in Iraq if he couldn't get an IRW through Congress?

He'd have done it anyhow. That war was on the table from the first day he seized the reins of power.

[sandnsea]

3. Jumping on the bandwagon

He thought he'd continue on with his centrist politics and triangulating Katrina; but when he discovered the rest of the Dem Party wasn't going to go on that path anymore, he tried to head them off at the pass by getting his tp's against Bush out there first.

Pure Clinton politics and nothing more.

[lancdem]

23. If you're jumping on the bandwagon

how can you be heading anyone off at the pass? That's a contradiction. BTW, as an ex-president Clinton shouldn't be leading the charge anyway. That's what Dean, Reid, Kerry, etc. are for.

[sandnsea]

26. No it isn't

He knew what the party as a whole was going to do, he knew they weren't going to withhold criticism of Bush. No matter what he said. So he decided to jump on the bandwagon, but head them off at the pass so it would appear as if he were leading the charge instead of Kerry or Edwards of anybody else. For Hillary. For 2008. Geesh.

[flowomo]

4. never thought of "timing" as one of his strong points....

making gays-and-the-military his first issue out of the gate after he was elected in 1992 wasn't so hot. Great issue... but first?

[blm]

11. He didn't do that. Dole did it TO him via the Senate and put him on the

spot.

[firefox]

13. Clinton said that himself

It was up at Cspan several years ago in a speech he gave at the University of Arkansas. He said it was a big mistake going down that path so early in his administration.

[SharonAnn]

17. That was forced on him by the right-wing. They wanted the "outrage".

And they wanted to taint him in the eyes of anti-gay Americans.

[SharonAnn]

18. That was forced on him by the right-wing. They wanted the "outrage".

And to agitate the Anti-gay Americans.

[gumby]

25. I thought Sam Nunn was the one

who did that -- I mean he is the one who made it into a big deal -- not that the Repukes wouldn't have gotten around tuit.

[The Backlash Cometh]

42. Funny how the Liberals seem to forget that he did try.

Most definitely got his ass kicked in for being ahead of his time.

Who knows? This may be a major part of his legacy the day that we do have gay rights passed.

[Mend]

5. I am grateful to Bill Clinton...there was a vacuum

of Democratic response. Bill waited several weeks after Katrina to hit the tv circuit. Now everyone else is opening their mouths and I am grateful to them as well. But Clinton has the most balls and didn't worry about "blame game" charges. We need spines, outrage, and big mouths and we need them now.

[Seansky]

6. call me dumb, I didn't quite get what your point and theory is..

[seabeyond]

7. i dont see it that way koko. i think clinton was truly trying

to work with this adm. now i am not a fan of clinton, but i do watch and listen objectively. he has been trying hard to get the bickering and attacking out of the politics to bring in and allow more bipartisan. i think that is a big deal to his personality. i think he has been bothered with a lot of bush, but not letting go of the iraq war because it is so darn important we dont fuck it up. i think ultimately where clinton has come, is bush is hopeless and is going to continually fuck things up cause he is just so incapable. and he picked his time to speak out.

we all saw it much ealier. when does the person give up. we gave up on bush much sooner. he is just now giving up on him

*since you have two thread, i will put my comment in both threads, lol


no i dont see it the same as you how it effects kerry. i see kerry made that distinction in fall during the campaign. that bush was just hopeless worthless corrupt. he already took that step. i think clinton speaking out just fortifes and empowers the kerry's and boxers and conyers, instead of in the past, in clinton hopeful and optimistic of bush, weakened kerry boxer conyers.

i think it is good, a good development. i think it will empower the party. i think it is in tune with the majority giving up on bush. this nation, stupidly in my opinion has given bush chance after chance after chance.

i think this is taking care of any more chances. just gotta call it like it is. bush is a failure. has been all his life. bush is staying true to his pattern in life. failure

i think clinton finally admitted it out loud to the people.

kerry boxer conyers have been saying

[KoKo]

15. Your post is a great read....and thanks for this...

I really asked for what people thought in my post...Is it a good thing that Clinton has come out. My view might differ but I hope to be enlightened by the posts like your. :-)'s ...Only discussion...not bashing..didn't want that.

[seabeyond]

37. i hear ya koko. it was a good question on your part

i was thinking about this after having read both clinton and then kerry speech

and i have way had it with the bashing crap. totally a waste of everyones time. and..... non productive

[seabeyond]

39. reality all..... bush getting a whole lot of money again... to fix

something again. there is a pattern for all to see. including clinton. anyone could listen to thurs bush speech and say wtf. there is no way he is going to be responsible with all that money. and once again, a lot of money out and the job not done.

has become in our face disgusting

i think we are going to see a whole lot more of this. even the most conservative has got to be wary of bush with this money

frankin even recognized, and he has been an optimist to a point with bush.

and then, really all, the donate to rebuild iraq,.... that is significant all in and of itself. just a "hugh" wtf. all these coming within days of each other

[KoKo]

40. I know...sorting it all out...

we've spent so much time here for years sorting it all out. When does OUR TIME COME...When do WE get "payback" for all the time we've devoted to DEFENDING OUR DEMOCRACY...while others hung back...waited in the wings like actors in a play looking for the "cue cards" and our WHOLE COUNTRY WENT TO ROT?

I don't know...scratching my head...I don't know. :-(

[KoKo]

41. Is DU having "slow down problems?" or is it my Dial Up...I keep replying

and getting a DU "Error Message." ?????

[seabeyond]

45. a couple times i had an odd error going back.

but then fixed itself. when do we get our payback. koko this is the first time i am being so optimist in saying 2006. i can see us taking house and senate in 2006. do you know hte majority of people want a balanced washington so no party has too much of the power so they can get the least done, because we figure they will hurt us least that way. this couple years of repug power in all is scarying the shit out of people. media just doesnt play it. but we have always been an america that has not wanted one party ot have all power, by a majority

[DU me]

34. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer

[Boo Boo]

8. Maybe he's just tone deaf.

Goes on his Clenis and Poppy tour, then finally wakes up and realizes that Bush has really screwed himself this time and that he doesn't really want to be associated with Bush's failure.

An awful lot of people, including Clark, hammered Bush over Katrina while Clinton was still going around making excuses for him. Clinton even tried prop up Bush's "nobody could have predicted" bullshit. Not sure I see how that makes Clenis a genius.

I think he's late to the party on this one, and, has once again been caught-out trying to play it safe. One thing you can be sure of: Clinton will always try to drive down the middle of the road. So if his latest repositioning represents where he thinks the middle of the road is...

I think that's good news.

[KoKo]

22. Well...what you say might be the truth of it, also...Interesting

and thanks. I'm open to ideas here...wasn't trying to do a flame war.

I like what you say about he's "...late to the party on this one and once again been caught-out trying to play it safe." Also you say "Clinton will always try to drive down the middle of the road."

yeah..I kinda think you have a point we shouldn't forget. :-)'s

I really wanted a discussion because I'm mulling it all over in my own mind. thanks.

[bahrbearian]

9. Go Dean... YeeeHaaawwww

[Reciprocity]

16. I’m with you. Go Dean!

Back to Clinton. He makes me crazier than usual (for me) from time to time, but boy howdy he knows how to cut the opposition into tiny little pieces. He just smiles and lays it on the line with simple words that even freepers can understand.

[KoKo]

56. Is it possible that Clinton is "The PAST" and Dean is "The Future?"

I don't know if Dean wants to accept the mantle...but for a "breath of fresh air" Dean surely has been "THE ONE." :shrug:

[Reciprocity]

60. I blame the media for submarining Dean’s run for the presidency.

They played that clip over and over again. With only one network (I can’t remember which) telling the audience that it sounded louder on TV than it did live there. After that he never had a fair chance. Now folks are getting to know him better. Who know maybe a Dean/Edwards ticket could still be a viable option.

[pepperlove]

10. Hillary already has my vote

even if I have to write her in! :)

[1monster]

12. Like the song says, "You got to know when to hold 'em...

You got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run."

Clinton is so effective when he does make his move simply because he knows when to and when not to.

I admire Kerry, but he didn't light any fires with his campaign (I know quite a few Republicans who would have voted for Edwards or Clark, but never Kerry), Clark couldn't get any traction with the media (he was my first choice for 2004).

As for the latest trend of blaming Clinton for not securing the White House against the fraud perpetrated by the Republicans in 2000, come on! Get real. There was nothing he could do. In case you've forgotten, Clinton was not loved at all by the Supremes (severe understatement here) and that is where the whole thing was decided.

As for Clinton not speaking before, have you forgotten ALREADY just how badly he was trashed by the Bushies upon leaving the White House? A lot of people believed that garbage. Anything he said would have had the tinge of sour grapes at best.

In the end, Clinton is a genius. His stint with GHW Bush confused the neocons and it has given a better opportunity to do an end rush around the corporate media.

I say more power to him. We're going to need Bill Clinton to help dig us out of the deep deep hole the Bush Administration has dug for us.

[One_of_8]

24. I tend to agree with 1monster

I'm no political whiz kid. But I have been trying to get educated these past few years. At this point in time, I say that the more voices raised in protest and thoughtful, factual criticism of George W. Bush and his administration, the better. 2006 is around the corner -- now is the time for all those opposed to Bush and the Repugs to concentrate their focus on removing Repubs from office.

Despite the spin masters, most of America is not happy right now. Iraq is temporarily out of the headlines, but it's being replaced with Katrina. For those who supported Bush, yet still have some common sense, their gut is telling them there's a serious problem.

We need to keep bringing up the facts, hit the Repubs hard, win their seats, and then we need to hold the newcomers' feet to the fire, to make sure that things change for the better. False Demos like Lieberman need to go too, or at least be shook to their roots until they realize that "business as usual" isn't acceptable to the majority of the American public, and that their every move, every vote, will be scrutinized. They work for us, so until they earn our trust, we need to be the annoying boss that breathes down their neck at every turn.

[Seansky]

14. total, total speculation, but what if he is acting now cause

they might know something we don't about the word I having some momentum and the country is ready or an unprecedented election before 08? And, with Kerry having been so close to * in 04 and his latest speech beginning to resonance with the public, Could it be a "get Hillary vote out effort?

I am totally speculating of course...and my apology is some one already posted this thought.

[HoosierClarkie]

19. So are you saying that Hillary is pimping out Bill?

I do not understand your premise.

[faithfulcitizen]

21. hey!

:pals:

[faithfulcitizen]

20. Sorry Koko, what is your point exactly? I'm confused.

seriously, I don't know what you're sayin'.:shrug:

[KoKo]

27. I think I'm trying to parse out whether Clinton's Timing is Right On or

is his waiting and his timing so impeccable that he is reasserting his LEAD of the Dem Party...seeing that NO ONE ELSE can get traction or media attention.

IOW's Clinton knows that he's a "lightening Rod" for the Right...so he cozies with Poppy and then goes for the Bush Jugular (neck vein) when he now says that Poppy's son is incompetent.

Is he doing it for Hillary because he "owes her for Monica Thing" or is he an astute polition who knows that HE will get more PRESS COVERAGE than Clark, Kerry, Edwards.

Look...I'm sorting it all out in my own mind...so if you didn't understand my post...I've gotta tell you I don't EITHER.

I posted from my Gut, Political sense. :shrug:

[faithfulcitizen]

29. hmmm, okay then, I think the answer is yes he has great timing, & no

I'm not happy he chose NOT to speak out when we really needed him-last year! But pols do what pols do...sigh.

[KoKo]

31. Ok...thanks for getting my post..

I was unsure, but my political sense hit my gut and said "something's UP..so let me post on DU about this."

:shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

28. And the purpose of this is...?

I don't see what you're trying to accomplish.

First he gets it for helping out without criticizing, then he gets it for criticizing, and thus that is why I think we should pay little or no attention to people who make it apparent that they are too hard to satisfy.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

33. There is no point to this then.

I already knew it was a discussion.

[KoKo]

46. GACK! *Cough...*Cough*...

Subject: I know...sorting it all out...
Message:
we've spent so much time here for years sorting it all out. When does OUR TIME COME...When do WE get "payback" for all the time we've devoted to DEFENDING OUR DEMOCRACY...while others hung back...waited in the wings like actors in a play looking for the "cue cards" and our WHOLE COUNTRY WENT TO ROT?

I don't know...scratching my head...I don't know. :-(

[LoZoccolo]

38. Also, you can see by other posts...

...that I'm not the only person who can't figure out why you're making a big deal out of this.

[KoKo]

43. hey LoZoccolo...I'm having "big time Dial Up problems on DU" tonight...

but I don't think what was "deleted" on this thread was MY POST...and I can't find my post to you?

Sun Spots? I'm having a hard problem replying and keep getting DU Error Message when I do.

But...no matter...I'm a very PERSISTANT kind of person, LoZoccolo...and I've got your number.. :D I'll keep at it for as long as you want...:-)'s

[KoKo]

51. Some folks travel for years ....in a wilderness...wondering Why/How?

Perhaps you are one of those seeking a truth for yourself but never being able to see it when it's just around the next tree.

:shrug:

[Pepperbelly]

32. I have never known of an error in his timing.

In fact, it is generally remarkable.

But what is really bothering you, I sense, is the intent behind his recent move into the spotlight with the Global Conference and saturating appearances on the talking head shoutfests.And this is where you're just going to have to do like the rest of us. Bill plays his cards close to his vest and will say only what he wants to say.

I expect he won't say and speculation will amount only to worrying a very tough walnut with a small knife. It will frustrate you and when you finally get to meat at the center, you'll wish you hadn't wasted your time.

[mdmc]

35. down the hatch, I say

All of those guys will lose.

Kerry might be our best chance, and that is sad.
I like boring Gore. Put him with HRC as veep, and things might get jiggy.

HRC would not get my vote in 2008. I'll vote for Nader's corpse before HRC.

[KoKo]

44. Down the Hatch...I know. But where is the "Leader?" Captain & Commander?

I hate to think the US "MEDIA" is going to decide this for us after all we've been through...but I don't see anything coming except the "same old, same old."

I'm one of those looking for the "BIG BREEZE" to clear out all the MUCK that's been around for Decades..

I guess I'm always the "hopeful, Dreamer." :shrug:

[mdmc]

48. Gore / Clinton 2008

anything less is uncivilized!

[KoKo]

54. Gore Alone with "Undecided"

might be a good thing, too. But, I hear what you say. :-)'s

Don't know if we could convince Gore that it might be wise at this point, though.

But, many DU'ers seem to be going for that "Coalition Thing." :shrug;

[Catherine Vincent]

57. I'm glad he's criticizing *.

I just wonder if that bitch Barbara Bush would still call Clinton her son.

[The_Casual_Observer]

58. Seems as though Bill is shooting from the hip

Reacting to circumstances as they arrive, calling each one as he sees them without connecting everything in a grand strategy.

[TayTay]

61. He's criticizing the Bush Admin because it screwd up

Democrats were, generally, extremely upset by what went on in the aftermath of the KAtrina storm. Democrats are the ones who worry about the people and the poor. The crisis in the Gulf port area was like having an convulsion, a heart attack and an aneurysm all at the same time.

Clinton is a Dem. He waited until it was time to attack the blatantly incompetent Bush Admin until the time was right (and the immediate danger to most people was over.) He can attack now. Kerry can attack now. All other Dems can attack now. All are welcome.

[Quixote1818]

62. You do realize this will be forgotten in about three weeks?

This means squat and as a Clark supporter I could care less.

[Liberal In Texas]

63. Clinton could be a trial balloon to see how the criticism flies with the

general public before other dems (like his wife) stick their necks out. After all, he has nothing to lose if he gets either vilified by the RW press or if it's doesn't go over well with the public.

Just my 2 cents.

[KoKo]

65. Interesting...I know some of the liberal bloggers were concerned

about Clinton's fund raising with Poppy being a problem. I was kind of pissed about it myself. Maybe he heard the criticism and answered it.

:shrug: Activists that I know were really pissed off at him for hanging out with Poppy over NO's funding. All were Okay with Tsunami Fundraising. But here at home over Katrina Relief it seemed like "dealing with the devil" to many.