SO, WHAT are we to infer about the two British "soldiers?"

[BeHereNow]

Okay DU, I have just finished reading every thread in the
DU forums about the British "soldiers."
WHAT the hell is going on?!!!???

Are we to infer that many of the IED roadside bombs
that have killed Americans were actually planted by
special ops!?!

Are we to infer that the assasinations of various
Iraqi government officials were targeted by special ops
and not Iraqi "insurgents?"

My head is exploding...
WHAT exactly is going on?
Is this all PNAC/LeDeen "creative chaos?"
I swear, I don't know WHAT to think.

WHY were these two men busted out of the Basra jail?
WHAT are the PTB afraid of them revealing?

Shaking my head in disbelief,
BHN

[Jacobin]

1. one idea

They were trying to infiltrate the insurgents by becoming part of them in an undercover operation?

although that is a silly game to play since there are hundreds of thousands of insurgents and millions who help them out.

its a losing battle.

i have no idea really though.

the occupation gets bizarrer and bizarrer every day in every way

[BeHereNow]

3. THEN WHY...

would they shoot the Iraqi police?
IF they were working undercover to infiltrate
the "insurgents," why wouldn't they just let the Iraqi
police know that?
AND, WHY would the British forces bust down the
wall of the jail to free them?
WHY wouldn't the British commander just
tell the Iraqi jail officials that they were part of
an infiltration operation?
NONE of this makes sense.
BHN

[Jacobin]

9. I have no idea

its all very bizarre.

Its become unreal, as Viet Nam became utterly unreal.

I'm waiting for the buddhist monks to start pouring gasoline on themselves in public squares and self immolate...or whatever the equivalent in Iraq would be.

We have really really really screwed up by trying to occupy Iraq.

[ThoughtCriminal]

51. Two words

Suicide bomber. Not something a Buddhist would do, but there's your equivalent.

[MADem]

96. Because some of the police ARE the insurgents

...and they would tell, and the guys would end up dead in a ditch.

I don't know if your scenario was their mission, but assuming it was, the police would be the last people you tell. They cannot be trusted.

Whatever the situation, they needed to be busted out of there before they did any talking under duress. Clearly, whatever information they had was white hot.

I always wonder about an Iranian angle down in Basra...

What a mess this is...

[annabanana]

2. maybe

the iraqi soldiers that they attacked were part of some special ops thingie and they got religion..

and the UK ops guys were doing us a large..

(I miss Al-CIAda.... anybody heard from him yet?)

[BeHereNow]

6. I am REALLY reconsidering the be-heading threads now...

remember all the speculation about the be-heading videos
being Psy-op propoganda?
This story REALLY makes me wonder.
BHN

[truebrit71]

57. I called bullshit on those as soon as they happened...

..especially the Nick Berg one...

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[valerief]

4. If it walks like a duck…

Why do you think they call it theater?

[me b zola]

5. The US is activily CREATING a civil war to justify their presence

Here is the ugly truth:

[BeHereNow]

7. Well then, if that is so-

It means that it is a very real possibility that
our soldiers have been victims of the
staged conflicts too.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

8. after thought on that...

gives "Support the troops" a whole new
meaning, doesn't it?
BHN

[me b zola]

13. The truth is so filthy that I cannot fully wrap my mind around it

What you have said is a very real possibility. :cry:

Dear God, please bring them home NOW!




If the world courts do not act after this, I do not know what will cause them to act. We must all write to the UN to demand justice.

[BeHereNow]

16. I know what you mean.

I can't wrap my mind around it either.
It is just so awful to even contemplate.
But I guess after 9-11 and the utter neglect
of the hurricane victims, nothing should surprise us.
as far as how the BFEE operates.
BHN

[jim3775]

11. That doesn't make any sense

Why would the US create the very thing that is hurting them in the polls. Also, this would mean that there is no insurgency only a created fraud and that is a ridiculous notion.

[BeHereNow]

14. The only problem I see in your argument:

I REALLY am convinced that the BFEE doesn't
give a flying fuck what the polls say.

The ARROGANCE and blatant mocking of the
citizens of this country by the BFEE is more
than evident.

BHN

[jim3775]

15. Why would they create a loss?

Wouldn't Iraqis throwing flowers and heaps of WMD's be a better fraud? Just saying.

[BeHereNow]

18. Well, if the flowers and WMDs had happened

That would be the end of our reason to be there.
As long as they can point to chaos they can
justify the need to continue the occupation.
If everything was sunny and happy then what would
our excuse be for our continued presence and the bilking
of BILLIONS of dollars by the corporations running the war?
BHN

[jim3775]

26. Or...

The administration didn't actully plan for the postwar peroid (a fact that has been proven in the DSM) and got stuck in a quagmire. I believe a lot of unconventional things but "bush is behind the insurgency" isn't one of them. I need more proof than an inference based on an account from the chinese communist party news service.

[Zodiak]

72. I think this is opportnistic

The insurgency is excellent cover for certain "clean-up" operations that the BFEE would like done. But the insurgency is part and parcel to lack of pre-war planning.

There have been pracically no beheadings since the election.

We know the "Salvador option" was enacted by Rumsfeld

We know Negroponte came to Iraq and set up the diplomatic apparatus that currently runs the Iraqi government. The same guy who enacted the "Salvador option" in El Salvador

We know the "death squad style" killings have been occurring all over IRaq, ostensibly by insurgents and police.

We know that British soldiers were just busted out of an Iraqi prison. These soldiers were arrested firing on Iraqi police.

Many, many journalists have been killed in Iraq. The most recent was a New York Tims reporter killed "death squad" style by masked policemen.

This has the markings of a campign of terror meant to steer not only public opinion in Iraq, but also here at home. This covert operation has served, in my opinion, to whatever end it is needed for politically, but its chief goals are to spread a campaign of terror in an attempt at militaristic control of the population, justify the continued occupation of the country, silence dissent and limit access to information, and serve as a chaotic cloud to obscure the mountains of cash being pocketed by the war profiteers.

IT's not like we have not done this sort of thing before. It is Vietnam all over again.

All of this points to covert operations

[stickdog]

127. So you really find it unbelievable that war profiteers might try to

foment factional infighting?

What's your explanation for two British special ops soldiers dressed as Arabs traveling in a car filled with explosives and artillery? What's your explanation for British forces then using a tank to knock down a prison wall -- freeing over a hundred Iraqi prisoners -- on a subsequent rescue mission to free these soldiers?

Just trying to get a sense of the outside parameters of your personal bs meter/critical analysis skills.

[The_Mule]

42. Why? $$$$$$$$$ nt

[Bouncy Ball]

53. Oh the insurgency is very real.

Who knows what THIS particular shit is about.

But I think the entire war is about money. Money and control of resources.

If the powers that be can keep the shit stirred up just long enough and at just enough of a low simmer to keep things the way they are (money-wise) then that works out well for them.

The true politicos on the repuke side ARE getting rather nervous, looking at 06 and 08. bush et al don't care about that, they're outta there.

[MADem]

97. Yeah, it's back to ole OPERATION IRAQI LIBERATION (OIL)

That IS what it is all about, and they should have just said so in the first place. It would not have made it right, but it would have been a more forthright methodology.

I wonder if they might have been getting rid of someone who is working with Iranian interests. There is a lot of cross border activity down that way. You hear Farsi in the streets as well as Arabic.

It will be awhile before we know the truth, if we ever do.

[lostnfound]

54. Not true

"this would mean that there is no insurgency only a created fraud "

Assuming that some (or one) 'insurgent' acts are really self-inflicted
does not mean all insurgent acts are self-inflicted

Also, polls are right up there with 'focus groups'. Long term strategic goals would take precedence.

[truebrit71]

60. As long as they control the media, and own the voting machines...

...what do polling numbers mean?

Nothing, that's what.

The ONLY reason these thugs act with such impugnity is because they know they're untouchable. They countrol all three branches of government, will be installing a CJ of the SCOTUS that will be doing their bidding for DECADES, and they have Diebold.

Next question?

[digno dave]

78. this is what i am afraid makes it all futile

[FreedomAngel82]

90. Power and money perhaps?

We all know how they want to control Iraq. Maybe something was going on that was going in the opposite direction they wanted. :shrug: Only thing I can think of. That's what all of this is about. Oil, power and making tons of money.

[greyl]

28. What do you mean?

What is 'the truth' of that pic?

[me b zola]

41. The picture is of 2 British soldiers who are being held in Iraqi custody

They were dressed as Arab men. They were driving in a car loaded with explosives. When questioned by Iraqi police, they opened fire on the police. Might I point out the beards on their face (not reg). Might I also point out that soldiers wear uniforms.

************************

A Basra policeman, who declined to be named, said the two British servicemen detained were undercover soldiers, wearing Arab dress, who allegedly fired at a police patrol before being forced to stop.

Pictures taken at the scene where the men were detained showed their car, a plain white Nissan, with its front doors wide open.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16661037-38201,00.html



We have long suspected many of the occurrences in Iraq of having American/coalition prints all over them. The 60+ dead journalists are but one of those things that leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. This is the first proof of coalition forces false-flag activities.

[greyl]

45. Thanks. I just didn't know who was in the pics.

I thought you may have been implying that they were the same guy in some 'fake' pics.
I appreciate the info. :)

[jim3775]

48. False-Flag

There's that word again. So the new theory is that the insurgency is a complete fraud? Remember the last theory, a general got fired so that meant that we were going to get nuked. That died down pretty quickly after it didn't happen.

[lostnfound]

56. Who said it was a 'complete fraud'?

It's not all or none.

[jim3775]

61. You are right it's not all or none

but when I hear "false-flag" my crazy alarm goes off. I should also mention that the "car packed with explosives" claim came from Xunhua, the Chinese national propaganda service.

[Frederik]

106. Washington Post

reports that the two were suspected by Iraqi police of planting bombs. I don't have time to find nthe link now, but it's easy to find at www.washingtonpost.com

[stickdog]

129. Do you really find the notion of state sponsored terrorism crazy?

Have you ever studied human history?

[me b zola]

80. No one has suggested that the entire insurgency is a fraud

The "insurgency" is complicated, to say the least, as is also the US involvement in foreign lands/policy.

As for the General who was fired. The bottom line is that the neo-cons have been purging anybody who dare speak and act with integrity--in their world there is only room for the darkest of loyalty--integrity has no home there. People speculate when there is such evil taking hold of power, and of every action that they take.

I personally have a much greater problem with the credibility of someone who has access to so much information and chooses to belittle people who are alarmed with the abuses of power rather than focusing on those who are creating so much death & harm on the world.



What was reported to have happened with those 2 Brits defies an explanation other than they were up to no good. That no good has a name. The US gains much more than just oil profits by staying in Iraq. The corporate contracts have long been on the radar as a major source of war-profiteering. There is nothing sane about our presence there--NOTHING.

[barb162]

66. why, when we are pissing away a billion or so a week

and don't say oil, because we already know we cannot protect all the pipelines, and we can't spend to build new refineries, etc.

[me b zola]

89. Contracts, baby, contracts

Here is a link to PBS's documentary "Private Warriors". Watch it with a critical mind and many questions & outrages will come to you.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/view/



A great book to read is: "Cofessions of an Economic Hit Man". This book will do wonders to open the eyes. It goes a long way to help us understand why we "busy" ourselves in third world nations...and if you are paying attention, what they are doing to us here in the US.






Edited because I forgot a "y". A good reminder to never forget to ask "why"

[FreedomAngel82]

91. And guess who will get those contracts?

Halliburton. Bush and Cheney and I'm sure Bush will give something to the Carlyle group as well. Is Poppy Bush still going over to visit the Saudi's?

[Frederik]

107. The importance of the oil

is not letting the Russians, the Chinese or the Europeans get it. And it isn't going anywhere, It will be much more valuable a few years from now. Obviously, we can't have a free, un-occupied Iraq at that time, ready to sell its oil to China rather than the US. That's why it is absolutely necessary to maintain the US presence.

Also, the Iraqi government is getting very cozy with Iran. US policymakers cannot tolerate that a stable, Iran-friendly government emerges in Iraq. Thus, they need a civil war or at least a strong insurgency to put a check on the government and to have an excuse to maintain the occupation.

[barb162]

123. I hope you're wrong, you know

I had read way over a year ago that the quality of the Iraq oil was not as good as the US had thought and plus the Iraqis had shoved/pumped a lot of water down in those fields.. We like the sweet crude the Saudis have. ANd since the whole Iraq oil infrastructure was so falling apart, the US thought, geez, who needs this.

[cthrumatrix]

121. ding ding ding....we have a winner

you can't stay if there were "peace"

[TroubleMan]

10. Remember it's easier to steal things when the country's in chaos.

Where's all of Iraq's oil going?

Aren't there billions of dollars unaccounted for that we've spent and that were known to be in Iraq and previously accounted for?

"Cost plus" no-bid contracts for Halliburton?

Reporters can't leave the green zone for fear of being kidnapped or killed.

_______
Keep the country in civil war. Steal all you can while it's still in chaos. People lose sight of accountability in the fog of war.

If you notice, the bombings have killed a lot of civilians, not just military personel. bush and his cronies benefit from terror and chaos running rampant, so nobody has the time or safety to look at what's really going on.

[Team44Car]

20. that explanation seems the most direct given the facts

I find it very very hard to explain why normal channels of
non violent communication were not used. When you add it all up,
something is way wrong with this picture.

[BeHereNow]

22. Welcome to DU and YES...

The picture is GRIM and WAY too many
aspects spell deliberate malfeasance.
Unbelievable, is it not?

Oh wait, that's right, we ARE talking the BFEE/Blair
KKKabal, aren't we.
Nevermind- totally expected in that light.
BHN

[Team44Car]

29. It would require quite a fairytale to explain this episode

Perhaps they can have JK Rowling whip up something.
The sheer wickedness defies belief, but there we have it,
staring us in the face.

Hello!

[TroubleMan]

24. "War Is A Racket"

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/war_is_a_racket_033103.htm

This is by one of the most decorated Marines ever. Read the first paragraph.

Oh yeah....and welcome to DU.

[Team44Car]

33. Hello

thay was an interesting read

[TroubleMan]

35. Here's the short version he gave in a speech:

http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm

I apologize, as the other link was a long read. This one is more to the point.

[The_Mule]

47. Excellent link, TroubleMan!

Everyone should read this. The last sentence sums it up nicely:
"I say, TO HELL WITH WAR"

[psychopomp]

117. That would be Smedley Butler

Who, it should be recalled, was hand-picked by American fascists to lead a coup against the government that was led by Nazi-sympathetic US businessmen. He went along with them just long enough to expose their plot!

[meganmonkey]

12. I'm afraid I have to agree with your ideas

And your total disbelief.

And don't forget all the slain journalists, photographers, etc.

x(

[NNN0LHI]

17. Look at the posters here at DU who say we can't leave because Iraq...

...is too unstable. Thing is if the occupation were to end Iraq would stabilize on its own very well thank you. Bombing and assassinations by soldiers like these are what fuels the need for us to stay.

Don

[BeHereNow]

19. So we sacrifice our own soldiers

to the cause of continuing chaos?
Now all those SUV "support our troops" magnet laden
bumper sticking SUV driving 'murikkkans can rest easy.
Eh?
BHN

[moodforaday]

125. It's easy to pull out

because the majority of people will always refuse to believe it's really being done. Your can show them proof and they will turn away and only get angry at YOU for making them see things they don't wish to see.

They do need a modicum of cover, but don't have to try too hard. Let's see how the Basra story will play out in the media. I see matter-of-fact reports, but no outrage and no questions asked. Because MSM absolutely cannot handle the implications.

[Team44Car]

40. Those posters seem conspicuously absent here

I wonder what they're thinking now

[BeHereNow]

43. Uh..."They were working to infiltrate the insurgents...

and the Iraqi police didn't know...uh...so they killed 'em...uh, no
maybe they discovered those explosives and were delivering
them to a safe location...uh, no, maybe, maybe, maybe..."

There is NO logical way for anyone to spin this story.
It is what it is and it is DISGUSTING, depraved and
the TRUTH of the what is going on over there.

BHN

[Team44Car]

50. I spent my entire day mulling this over

It is a tough riddle with an answer I will not like.
This appears to be actual proof of the unthinkable.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

49. If you call stable ...

Look at the posters here at DU who say we can't leave because Iraq is too unstable. Thing is if the occupation were to end Iraq would stabilize on its own very well thank you. Bombing and assassinations by soldiers like these are what fuels the need for us to stay.

If you call stable a divided Iraq with the Sunnis added to Syria, an independent Kurdistan destabilizing Turkey and Iran, leading both countries to invade and battle, and also a Shiite addition to Iran, destabilizing Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

Simplistic solutions do not make for good geopolitics. It was simplistic to invade when Bush did and it would be simplistic to simply pull out.

[NNN0LHI]

64. You don't know if any of the theories you suggest would actually happen

Do you? Its all conjecture. Isn't it? Sounds a whole lot like the "Domino Theory" I heard about for over a decade during Vietnam. Lot of people really believed it too. That theory was proven to be without merit.

Don

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

21. Read the big LBN thread here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1791641

I guess the reason there are so many "conspiracy theories" is because of all the freaking conspiracies...

[leftchick]

23. oh BHN sweetie. You have stated the truth yourself.

all of the above and more. It is Vietnam redux. One only needs to read up on the CIA covert operations running beneath the Pentagon's scope to understand what we are seeing now in Iraq.

The difference here is the so called intelligence ops were caught. In The Act! Something we have never witnessed before to my knowledge.

It is a shocking thing to behold is it not??

:cry:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

30. It's all good though, because the Brit Spec Ops soldiers were 'rescued'

from the custody of our 'allies'. You can go back to watching Monday Night Football. No uncomfortable explanations necessary for an event that never happened.

You didn't see NOTHING!

Pay no attention to the man behind the burning tank!

[BeHereNow]

37. CLEARLY caught in the act! Question is-

WHAT will come of it?
With a media that LIES and COVERS all the stains,
what will happen now?
Will the rest of the world ignore this story too?
Every possible explanation is thoroughly
shredded within seconds by a thinking person.
There is NO explanation other than the unthinkable.
BHN

[NNN0LHI]

52. Chances are the Iraqis will not ignore this story

That will be bad news for those wishing to continue the occupation.

Don

[MADem]

98. VIETNAM REDUX--well, seeing as George missed his opportunity to serve

in that war, perhaps he is trying to recreate a moment for himself, the putz!

I do not know if this is the first time these types of guys have ever been caught, but coverage of these things has improved over the years.

It is pretty damn bizzarre...

[Junkdrawer]

25. BushCo does NOT want a democracy in Iraq...Just as BushCo does NOT...

want to stop terrorism in the US.

BushCo wants hegemony over the world's remaining oil supplies and a frightened, "patriotic" US public to provide the troops and treasure support his imperialism.

Isn't that clear by now? :shrug:

[leftofthedial]

27. they are "in-sergeants"

helping keep the flames fanned on unrest

the bushturdgang thrives on unrest and chaos and death and destruction

[NNN0LHI]

32. We have finally identified al Qaeda in Iraq methinks n/t

[BeHereNow]

34. What ELSE are we to think?

HOW are they going to explain/spin/market
THIS story?
The good 'murikkkan people may buy it,
but I REALLY doubt the rest of the world will-
especially not the Iraqi people.
BHN

[TroubleMan]

31. Who wants to be the last person to die for a lie? Raise you hand.

Anyone?... anyone?.... Bueller?.......Bueller?


________________________

The similarities to 'Nam are striking.

[Auntie Bush]

36. We're getting out of Iraq just as soon as we've trained enough police

to protect their country from the insurgents. Therefore, as long as the police keep getting killed off as fast as we train them...WE CAN STAY!!!!! The more vilence...the longer we stay. Makes sense to me!We also get to justify building all those military bases.

Been saying that to hubby but he says DU is making me too cynical.
After this thread...he'll see I'm not the only one.

[phusion]

38. I have the same questions - PLEASE RECOMMEND

let's see if we can get some dialogue going...

[BeHereNow]

39. WHY did they shoot an Iraqi policeman?

WHY were they dressed like locals?
WHY were they driving a car loaded with explosives?
WHY did the British forces destroy a prison wall to get to them?

WHAT the FUCK is going ON over there?

The details of this story STINKS to high heavens of
CONSPIRACY and DELIBERATE aggitation on the part
of the BFEE/BLAIR war profiteers.

DISGUSTED and sickened beyond belief...
BHN

[phusion]

44. I'm with you my friend...

This does stink, big time.

We need answers to these questions. We need to make sure this story is not missed by AAR hosts and friends in the MSM. This could be an opportunity.

[BeHereNow]

46. Yes, because ONCE AGAIN...the trail of turds leads back to BUSH

WHO is in charge in Iraq?
Are we to REALLY believe that the Pentagon
did not know about this bizarre operation involving
these British "soldiers" dressed up like locals
drinving around in a car filled with explosives?
WTF?
I guess our "ally" just decided to do this on their
own initiative, right? RIGHT.
BHN

[FreedomAngel82]

92. Yep

If you haven't you should see the PBS documentary "Rumsfeld's War." It shows how Rumsfeld told Bush not to worry about Iraq and let him. So instead of Bush I think it probably goes back to Rumsfeld. Why else do you think Bush keeps Rumsfeld on?

[MADem]

99. A few possibilities

They were dressed like locals because they are posing as insurgents.

They were off to kill someone. Who? A fundy politician or tribal leader who does not share the occupation goals, or even more troubling, an IRANIAN?

Their mission had such repercussions, if discovered, that even a botched, loud, rude rescue was preferable to risking those guys talking under duress.

Why did they not tell the police? There may be (most likely ARE) insurgents in the force, and they don't want to risk their lives by identifying themselves to the enemy. It could also be that the cop that ended up getting shot was on their suspect list.

These are just guesses, but I keep wanting to look EAST over the border...

[ThoughtCriminal]

55. I can only hope the British press shows more curiosity

than our own. The cover story is going to be a doozy.

[tgnyc]

58. Agree. There is guaranteed to be nothing in the corporate US

media on this.

[BeHereNow]

59. Yeah...I AM curious to know why the Brits tore down a prison

to retrieve their two boys.
Seems awfully desparate, doesn't it?
Wonder WHY they were so anxious to get them?
Perhaps they were afraid of some TRUTH being told
about just WHO is setting off explosions in Iraq?
BHN

[jim3775]

62. Maybe they were afriaid of them being tortured

or quickly executed? There are other explanations than "massive conspiracy" you know.

[Laurab]

74. Maybe they were, but...

they are supposed to be allies, so "negotiations" should have been able to clear up the little misunderstanding, don't you think? It doesn't make sense that they couldn't explain it to our allies, and get the nice soldiers out of jail somehow. At least not to me. Why with a tank, and why let other prisoners escape? I'm sure there are other explanations, and we'll probably hear them all, but it just doesn't make any sense. I vote "massive conspiracy" only because nothing else makes sense to me.

[MADem]

101. We do have a Status of Forces Agreement over there, FWIW

We punish our own as a courts martial may direct.

Something else was going on in this case...this was a black op that went horribly wrong.

[FreedomAngel82]

93. Could be

[barb162]

63. You know I am so glad you brought this up. I have NO idea

if these guys were regular soldiers or what. And are you going to believe anything you read?

[Marr]

65. The only thing I can imagine they were doing is

attempting to assassinate suspected insurgents using their own methods, and perhaps sow divisions between different factions in the insurgency in the process.

Or it could be a ludicrous attempt to address that whole "we're creating terrorists faster than we're killing them" problem. Perhaps the policy makers here believe they can mask assassinations as inter-insurgency stuff, and thus avoid stirring more hostility towards western troops.

That is the only thing I can imagine that makes even a little sense.

Why did they shoot at cops? I can't begin to imagine. Unless they'd already been spotted by the police and they were trying to keep their little murder program secret. But it's all just speculation- who knows what the fuck is going on over there.

[BeHereNow]

67. Doesn't make sense for them to shoot the Iraqi police though!

Why wouldn't they simply explain who they were and what
they were doing?
It DOES make sense for them to shoot the police
if they were trying no to be caught while up to no good.

Another nagging question- Wouldn't the Iraqi police
be briefed of undercover operations as NOT to interfere
or impede in such operations?

BHN

[jim3775]

68. How do we know they were police and not some local militia?

I have read stories about how militias are replacing the local police.

[BeHereNow]

75. What possible difference would that make? Police? Militia?

Fact is- two British "soldiers" or what ever the
hell they were opened fire on Iraqi security
who were simply doing their job?
I thought they were on OUR side?
Why would the "soldiers" shoot them for simply doing
their jobs?
DOES NOT MAKE A LICK OF SENSE under
ANY circumstance.
BHN

[WeHoldTheseTruths]

108. Which "our"?

"I thought they were on OUR side"

Which "our side," the one behind the Bush admin. or the American people?

(Rhetorical, not challenging you.)

[Marr]

69. You got me, brother. Maybe it's too "sensitive" to tell anyone

outside of the forces doing the do? I can imagine it might be. I mean- if word of this got out, it'd be far more provocative than just rolling into town with a tank. Know what I mean?

Whatever they were doing, it's obviously very shady and twisted.

[BeHereNow]

71. Make that "sister..." Why does everyone always think I am a guy?

I get more "dude" and "bro" than the local
football team in a locker room!

Now that I have clarified my gender, not that
it really matters, back to the topic at hand-

Shady and twisted sums it up nicely.
The details around the event point more
to covert BFEE ops than legitimate operations.
BHN

[Marr]

73. Pardon me, sister.

It's a failing of language- we need a gender non-specific pronoun more then ever, you know? With this internet stuff, I mean.

Anyway, could be. Who knows what they're doing over there. I'm surprised they didn't do something like this to Chalabi when that relationship first went sour. There's got to be a whole web of intersecting agendas over there.

[BeHereNow]

76. No problem! N/T

BHN

[Occulus]

82. we could try using "derp"

as in "Excuse me, derp, but what I was trying to say was..."

:silly:

[Marr]

87. Haha- I like it, but it sounds almost like one of those

British put-downs that defuse themselves with unintentional cuteness.

'E's a bloody derp, e' is.'

:)

[radwriter0555]

70. Welcome to Uhmurrikkkuh under a bush. NOTHING is as it seems, and it's

all a pile of lies to justify the atrocities being committed for fun, power and profit in the world according to bush.

Yes. The bombs are indeed being planted by US troops and covert ops; the insurgents are NOT foreign fighters, if they were, that would mean that the foreign fighters are assisting the US troops in killing iraqis... now that doesn't make much sense, does it?

Yes, US special ops are indeed killing off Iraqi power players who are not condusive to the operation. They've been doing this kind of thing for decades.

It's all a lie, from November, 2000, everything you knew to be true about the bush regime is all a lie. The USA is now bought, paid for, owned and operated by the PNAC.

[Marleyb]

81. Iraqis aren't stupid

It has always seemed illogical that the Iraqis save their biggest bombs to blow up their own people at shopping centers etc. Apparently the Iraqis don't believe it either...

Ali Ghazi, a Shia from the Iraqi deep south. "I believe it is the Americans who are doing this, pretending it is the Sunni, so there will be a civil war and they can control our wealth."

They don't hate eachother...they hate US!

Many Iraqis believe ’suicide’ bombings done by US to start a civil war
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article312735.ece

[BeHereNow]

83. Welcome to DU and thanks for the link

This story is getting stranger by the second.
BHN

[radwriter0555]

88. I firmly believe that the Sunnis and Shi'ites are basically united against

the USA.

There is no logic to the lies that the iraqis are killing each other or their own; that would mean they're doing the work of the USA, which utterly defies all logic. Just ask some idiot republican why the iraqis would work WITH the USA to kill -- each other...

And to imagine that 'foreign' nationals are traveling all the fucking way to iraq to (depending on the version) kill iraqis OR kill americans, is wildly illogical and non-sensical... who is supplying their arms, munitions, food, clothing, medical aid and shelter? Show us a money trail.

It's a total *duh* if you take the idiot factor out and break it all down to reality.

[FreedomAngel82]

94. Right

They all want us out. I remember watching a video someone had on a website that was a message from an Iraqi stating how they'll fight as long as we're there. I believe them. Look at Vietnam for example. And also I believe the Iraqi's know very well why we're all there in their country. They're not ignorant I'm pretty sure. On Moore's F911 he talks to some Iraqi's about it as well and they knew Saddam didn't have anything and it didn't make any sense to them. Also, why else would they have blown up oil pipelines? I wonder if they know about PNAC? :shrug:

[radwriter0555]

104. The iraqis didn't blow up their own pipelines, that was done by the covert

ops as well; I've said that all along.

They were blown up as a demolition excuse to get the oil co subsidiaries of halliburton in there to control the lines by ruse of putting out the fires.

I've said this from the very, very beginning. The oil lines in the gulf war were also set fire to by the US, not the iraqis.

[shadowknows69]

79. I've suspected this for a while

If it swims like a duck and quack likes a duck then holy fuk it's a duck.

[chalky]

84. You know, there was this story in NYT back in June

Iraqis Found in Torture House Tell of Brutality of Insurgents

It's archived now, but I found a website that has it in total:
http://www.talkshowamerica.com/2005/06/iraqis-found-in-torture-house-tell-of.html

There were some bits in that article that just struck me as off-key. Enough so that I saved it in drafts with some highlighted bits:

In an interview with an embedded reporter just hours after he was freed, he said he had never seen the faces of his captors, who occasionally whispered at him, "We will kill you." He said they did not question him, and he did not know what they wanted. Nor did he ever expect to be released....As the marines walked through the house - a squat one-story building of sand-colored brick - the broken black window glass crunched under their boots. Light poured in, revealing walls and ceiling shredded by shrapnel from the blast they had set off to break in through a wall. Latex gloves were strewn on the floor. A kerosene lantern lay on its side, shattered....The manual recovered - a fat, well-thumbed Arabic paperback - listed itself as the 2005 First Edition of "The Principles of Jihadist Philosophy," by Abdel Rahman al-Ali. Its chapters included "How to Select the Best Hostage," and "The Legitimacy of Cutting the Infidels' Heads."
Also recovered were several fake passports, a black hood, the painkiller Percoset, handcuffs and an explosives how-to-guide. Three cars loaded with explosives were parked in a garage outside the house. The marines blew them up.

(more at link)

-------------------------------------------------

And I remember thinking while I read this article: It would be so nice to trust in my government. It would be nice to read something like the above and have confidence that we were saving these men from evil anti-democratic interlopers. Instead I found myself thinking things like, "If they were actually planning to kill these poor men, why did they bother to hide their faces?" and, "What was the purpose of those latex gloves? Surely they weren't worried about fingerprints."

I couldn't help but wonder why insurgents would kidnap and torture civilians with no apparent goal (since no demands for information were made), and how they would find the time since they were fighting off allied troops. And I wondered why they would leave behind their "Insurgency for Dummies" manuals.

I adjusted my :tinfoilhat: at a jaunty angle and tucked the article away just in case something brought it to mind later. Something like today's events.

[BeHereNow]

86. Your mind works like mine.

I don't think it is tinfoil at all-
I prefer to call it critical thinking and logic.
SO many of the crappola "reports" BEG for
questioning.
SO many details that add up to CONTRIVED propoganda.

BHN

[FreedomAngel82]

95. That is quite strange

And also remember those very weird "terrorist" video's. :shrug: Don't forget the Italian journalist too earlier this year! Remember before she was free'd she was warned? Did anything ever come out of that investigation?

[Warren DeMontague]

85. Um, that the shit's really hittin' the fan?

And, as I was saying to my wife the other night vis a vis us just getting the fuck out of there ASAP. "No one who hates anyone ELSE in that country is going to hate them any MORE just because we're not there. All our presence there can do is make things worse, although it does unify them in a sense--- because they ALL hate us"

Now, I would suspect, that is exponentially more true, since we're seemingly at war with the provisional Shiite government we have installed as WELL as the Sunnis.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. SAS Operators, either trying to infilatrate the resistance

hence the party favors, or helping the resistance... I doubt they were tyring to actually place bombs,

Either way they blew it... and oh boy I really hope this does not prove too painful for them... their hell just started...

The resistance is of our own creation insofar as nobody expected it (among the planners that is), but it is real... and black ops trying to infiltrate, even bringing in party flavors is not unheard off..

[Minstrel Boy]

103. Not infiltrate. They were obviously British soldiers

to the Iraqi police.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. that is the fluff they are putting out

look at the photos, look closely at them.

A beard? yep british troops wear facial hair all the time, and the one with gauze... that hair is longer than regs...

They are operators...

Something went down, something bad, they were caught you think the police is gonna tell you the truth? And tell the truth, what sounds better we caught the big bad british soldiers (who are obviously operators) or we caught the SAS as they were trying to infiltrate our cell that was planning to blow up something but damn them party favors made us nervous? And if you think there are no resistance in the police, care for the bridge? There aer... this is one of the problems, the resistance if very real just like it was in the 1920s. I wonder, did the brits try the same games in Basrah in the 1920s?

[Frederik]

110. How would they be able to infiltrate the insurgency?

You can't hide the fact that you're British just by growing a beard... You will, however, appear Arab at a distance, if you also don Arab clothes.

If they wanted to infiltrate the insurgency, they would have to use Iraqi operators they could trust. Two Anglo-Saxon SAS dudes wouldn't stand a chance, for obvious reasons.

So what were those two guys up to?

[psychopomp]

119. I was going to say the same thing

The poster you replied to obviously could not think that through, for some reason.

[ladylibertee]

102. We are to infer our asses do not belong in IRAQ..simple

[soup]

109. So, they weren't in the jail??

Two UK soldiers were freed on Monday after tanks broke into a Basra prison.

The Ministry of Defence says the soldiers were handed by Iraqi police to Shia militiamen.<

>The MoD said the soldiers had been found at a nearby house after troops broke into Basra's prison to look for them.<

>But Mr Reid told BBC News: "We don't actually know the details of why these people were handed over - whether it was under threats or by collusion, or whatever.

"What we do know is that under the law they should have been handed back to the British forces themselves. That is the law which enshrines our presence there.<
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4262976.stm

Well, now it makes more sense. NOT.

[Disturbed]

112. Another mystery that we will most likely never know the

truth about. No the same but I recall a story about the Interim Iraq PM (Forgot his name) who allegedly executed six detainees at a police station. That was never settled.

[psychopomp]

120. No, they were found in a nearby house

"After troops broke into the police station to confirm the men were not there, they staged a rescue from a house in Basra, said the commanding officer of 12 Mechanised Brigade in Basra."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4262336.stm

[WeHoldTheseTruths]

111. A little background

The SAS: Prince Philip's manager of terrorism
by Joseph Brewda
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/1995/2241_sas.html

The Dogs Of War: Her Majesty's irregular forces
www.members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/irregs.htm

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2841wolfowitz.html
`Wolfowitz Cabal' Is an Enemy Within U.S.

http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2000/terror_memo_2703.html
Put Britain on the List of States Sponsoring Terrorism

And we do remember (Ex-Brit Pime Minister)Marg Thatcher's son being busted in Africa recently, don't we? Resource-control and genocide.

Central Asia (Iraq, Iran, etc.) is the geographic connection between Russia, India and China-Asia. The world-empire-globalists want chaos and war there to stop planned economic development between nations.

Sorry for this half-assed crazed-sounding post, but better than nothing. Ill and in pain today.

[muriel_volestrangler]

114. The Larouche website isn't background, it's fantasy

As you say, "half-assed crazed-sounding". Or maybe truly crazed.

[WeHoldTheseTruths]

116. Dispute facts.

Your post is useless, unless you just intend to misdirect people.

[muriel_volestrangler]

118. Larouche is a convicted fraudster

A federal jury in Alexandria convicted political extremist Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. and six associates yesterday of conspiracy and mail fraud in his group's solicitation of $34 million in loans since 1983.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/larouche/larou6.htm

Larouche supporters disrupt Democratic meetings:

Followers of perennial presidential candidate Lyndon LaRouche interrupted a campaign event for former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean on Monday before being drowned out by Dean supporters and removed from the room with the assistance of comedian Al Franken.

As Dean was addressing a crowd in Manchester, the fans of LaRouche -- who is something of an outcast in the Democratic Party for his extremist views -- began screaming that Dean is "a liar" and not a Democrat. They said the only candidates telling the truth are LaRouche and Sen. John Kerry, the apparent front-runner in the race.

The crowd began cheering "Howard Dean, Howard Dean," drowning out the LaRouche supporters as they were removed from the room.

Franken, a comedian and self-described liberal well-known for his attacks on the Bush administration and conservative-leaning media, helped carry out one of the disrupters. In the process, Franken's glasses were knocked off his face and broke in two.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/27/elec04.prez.democrats.larouche/

Larouche supporters are running a personality cult:

All she did know was that her Jewish son would never return home after becoming embroiled with the LaRouche organisation, a shadowy cult led by a convicted fraudster with virulent anti-Semitic views. When police broke the news that Duggan had died they urged Erica 'to go nowhere near those people, they are dangerous.'

It was advice quickly ignored. Driven by a desire for truth, the retired teacher began a one-woman investigation that would take her into the political orbit of a group obsessed with conspiracy theories, apocalyptic prophesies and extreme political ideology.

Over the months Erica, 58, has tracked down 20 former members of the LaRouche group from as far afield as Australia and Canada. Each interview corroborates allegations of mind control and intimidation, substantiating a Scotland Yard internal report that the movement seems to be a 'political cult with sinister and dangerous connections'. More than £50,000 raised from selling her home funded her quest, but this has now run out.

Yesterday speaking from her parents' house in Golders Green, north London, where a study holds 30 box-files of notes, testimonies and observations, she said: 'The pain never goes away, sometimes I am out and a tremendous wave of grief washes over me. There have been times when I have nearly given up, especially after talking to people damaged after contact with LaRouche. Now I feel confident that we are heading towards the truth.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1340301,00.html

Quotes from a Larouche website have no place on a Democratic forum. They cannot be trusted in any way whatsoever.

[Wizard777]

113. Britian violated Iraq's sovereignty. No offensives w/o Iraq's permission.

The coalition may defend it's self. But they cannot mount any offensives without first gaining the approval of the Iraqi Government. So this is either the coalitions violation of an international treaty with Iraq or Iraqi government sponsored guerilla warfare.

[WeHoldTheseTruths]

115. Soldiers were using a civilian car packed with explosives

The two soldiers were using a civilian car packed with explosives, the source said.

http://www.expatforums.org/forums_plus/rlink/rlink.php?url=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/19/content_3514065.htm

B.B.C. World Radio reports initially identified the car the SAS drove as being: "full of explosives and bomb making equipment."

Thanks to:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/20/43456/2343

[jasmeel]

122. The idea that the * admin would attack it's own is not insane.

People at DU know this. I could definately see the * admin bolstering an insurgency so they could continue their war profiteering. I wish I could say I couldn't. Thanks for starting this thread. I've been wondering what the British were doing trying to break soldiers out of prison.

[never cry wolf]

124. It is the same in any country

I believe it is black ops all the way. They want to create boogey men to foment civil war & create terra so the majority of Iraqis will back their puppet government.

Read the attached recent thread about Zarqawi possibly being a fake boogie man himself:

"Zarqawi is dead, claims Baghdad imam (Washington's bogeyman)"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1785845

Please also keep in mind how masterfully they used the fascist lessons they had learned in the run up to the war:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger. It is the same in any country."
--- Hermann Goering, Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe and President of the Reichstag in the Hitler regime

I am not sure of the motive, planned chaos so it is easier to steal, perpetual war so our presence is needed indefinitely, an attempt to get the majority of the locals to support and sympathize with the puppet gov't. or some other nefarious reason but it is probably a combination of all of the above. A win/win for them at the cheap cost of a few thousand brown skinned people.

[stickdog]

126. Don't forget the 2003 UN building bombing that killed de Mello.

just saying ...

[jmatthan]

128. What British soldiers?

Two Brits dressed as Arabs were caught in the battle arena.

They are ENEMY COMBATANTS and should be treated as those at Gunatanamo.

http://jmpolitics.blogspot.com/2005/09/enemy-combatants.html