Another post on abortion inspired by ruggerson's thread

[rockymountaindem]

In another post ruggerson asked a great question for the "pro-life" forces: how will we punish those who get/perform abortions?

Here's another thought in that same directon...

A few months back I read an interesting pro-life article on a left wing Catholic website. I'm so so sorry, but I don't remember what site it was. Please take my word for this... Now, the author was definitely opposed to abortion, but the article contained an entirely different argument than I anticipated. It noted that the lowest abortion rates in the world are in Belgium and the Netherlands, where abortion is totally legal. The highest rates of abortion are in Paraguay and Bolivia, where it is completely banned.

From a right wing perspective, this paradox seems impossible. From a left wing perspective, it makes perfect sense. In Belgium and the Netherlands, there is effective sex education, use of birth control, and a strong social safety net to ensure that impoverished mothers and their babies are cared for. In Latin America, desperate and impoverished women have nowhere to turn. They do not have access to birth control, and nobody will help them take care of unwanted children. They feel abortion is their only option.

Thus, the author reached the conclusion that in the "fight against abortion", banning it was not the answer. The solution is to establish education programs and a safety net so that mothers unsure about carrying a pregnancy to term will be confident that everything will be ok.

Now, those of us in the reality based community know that there was abortion in our own country even while it was illegal. Making it against the law will not stop abortion. Evidence demonstrates that the only "cure" for abortion is a strong social safety net and health insurance for at least children and expectant mothers.

Yet these are the very ideas which "pro life" conservatives so passionately oppose. This begs the question...

Are "pro lifers" more interested in actually saving babies, or just punishing adults?

[deadparrot]

1. That's my argument for the whole thing.

But there is somewhat of a counterargument.

The basic philosophy of this is "Whether it's legal or not, abortion's gonna happen, so let's do it in a safe enviroment, etc."

They can argue back that "Well, why don't we make murder legal? Because, you know, it's illegal now, and people still do it."

I'm running on two hours' sleep, and I'm not on full brainpower, so I'm sure there's a million brilliant DU arguments to that, I just don't have the capacity to think too coherently right now.

Let it just be known that those are not *my* views on the subject. :)

[rockymountaindem]

2. It's not about making abortion safe

It's about reducing the number of abortions by ensuring there's adequate support for mothers to convince them that having a baby they aren't sure about won't wreck their lives.

Better yet, it's about having real sex education to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.

[deadparrot]

4. Yeah, that sentiment I agree with.

But as to the argument that "Abortion is going to happen whether or not we make it illegal or not...," I'm just saying it may not hold water in some circles, especially those who equate abortion with first-degree murder.

[HawkerHurricane]

3. countercounter arguement.

"If you can show me that legalizing murder would reduce the number of people murdered, I'd say you had something. The figures show that to minimize the number of abortions, it must be legal, there must be education on reproduction, and there must be a social safety net. Is your objective reducing abortion, or punishing sex?"

[deadparrot]

5. There you go...

See, I'm too tired to think critically right now. :)

[hopeisaplace]

6. I like the Totalitarian references...

Forced Birth by State = State assuming all medical & education for these children.

It's only fair.


(like this too)
Pro-Choice
Anti-Choice

(mentioned by someone else..like this)
Pro-Privacy
Anti-Privacy

[Crunchy Frog]

7. "Pro-lifers" are interested in controlling sexuality

particularly female sexuality. They care nothing at all for babies, seeing them merely as "punishment" for "sinful" behavior. Not the author of that article, but the RW ones. Any policy for reducing abortion that involves empowering women and making sex less likely to result in unwanted pregnancies will always be rejected by these types. They will always take the Bolivian solution over the Dutch one, even though the Bolivian one involves thousands of discarded children living on the streets like rats. That's what the "culture of life" means to those types.

[rockymountaindem]

8. kick

for the morning crowd