"The two soldiers were using a civilian car packed with explosives,"

[radwriter0555]

Iraqi police detain two British soldiers in Basra

www.chinaview.cn 2005-09-19 22:46:55

BAGHDAD, Sept. 19 (Xinhuanet) -- Iraqi police detained two British soldiers in civilian clothes in the southern city Basra for firing on a police station on Monday, police said.

"Two persons wearing Arab uniforms opened fire at a police station in Basra. A police patrol followed the attackers and captured them to discover they were two British soldiers," an Interior Ministry source told Xinhua.

The two soldiers were using a civilian car packed with explosives, the source said.

He added that the two were being interrogated in the police headquarters of Basra.

The British forces informed the Iraqi authorities that the two soldiers were performing an official duty, the source said. British military authorities said they could not confirm the incident but investigations were underway. Enditem

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/19/content_3514065.htm

Nah, the illegal invaders of iraq would NEVER plant car bombs!!! nooooooooooooo.......

[texanwitch]

1. No, never, no way.

:sarcasm:

[radwriter0555]

2. I'm seeing scores of various articles all over the web being posted faster

than anyone can imagine, dumping the information, convoluting it, contorting it, turning it around, twisting it and turning it into a confusing mess.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9E60DCBA-3470-4FF5-AA15-8000CCF163E9.htm

http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20050919/D8CNHCHG6.html?PG=home&SEC=news

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/ALI971469.htm

http://telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/20/wirq20.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/20/ixnewstop.html

PRESERVE THEIR PHOTOGRAPHS before they get disappeared...

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Ok I suspect once again

that these two are SAS, who were trying to infiltrate the very real resistance... hence the party favors. Something went down, and went down fast and they were caught on the wrong side of the shit as it hit the fan. Both have the kind of info you need not fall on enemy hands, yes the kind that usually says save the last round fer yourself. Once the brits realized these two were still alive... they needed to get them out and talking to the locals woudl not work... so they extracted them.

Everything else is fluff... and yes this happens in wartime, more often than people think... oh and you will see a lot of articles that will quite on purpose confuse this... to get the truth buried... SAS operators, to the point of regular troops wearing a beard, and somewhat longer hair... what does this tell you ?

And no I don't need a tin foil hat to be adjusted...

[MADem]

9. Of course they were black ops guys, but the question is, what about the

explosives? I am not quite sold on the infiltrate/party favor idea. What kind of cover story can you give those faces? They look fine from a distance, riding in a car, but they are Brit up close. Two of them? What group would be that stupid?

I think, more likely, there was some effort to foment discontent between factions within the region in and around Basra, or possibly take someone out who was getting to cosy with the Iranians.

The rapid extraction was to avoid their talking, perhaps they suspected or knew that the police were infiltrated and that was the reason for a lack of coordination.

I think that bomb had an intended, clear target, the question is, who?

There has been quite a bit of violence of late around once-peaceful Basra--contractors killed, reporters shot, house raids that were the result of bad information...Basra is becoming a bit of a hotbed, and I cannot help but look east, given the proximity and cultural attachments...

This little noted report is of interest as well: http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/iraq/dispatches2/080305ccdriraqrobberson.13274156.html

BASRA, Iraq — The prominently displayed posters of Iran's revolutionary leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, are only one reason why many Basra residents are anxious about a growing Iranian influence in Iraq's southernmost city.


Cheryl Diaz Meyer / DMN
Posters of the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini aren't the only signs of Iranian influence popping up in Basra.

Concerns are spreading that Shiite Muslim Iran, only 25 miles to the east, is providing intelligence to the city's Shiite religious parties so they can carry out revenge attacks on political opponents.

Residents say Iranian agents prowl Basra's streets in apparent contradiction of Tehran's oft-stated pledge to respect Iraq's sovereignty. Iranian imprints are suspected on all kinds of social and political changes affecting the lives of Basrans.

The question of Iran's influence here and elsewhere in Shiite-dominated parts of Iraq could become a chief concern of U.S. military strategists if tensions increase with Washington over allegations that Iran is developing nuclear weapons.....

Something else to keep in mind, and this is quite important:

Many Basrans regard Iranian influence, like it or not, as a natural part of life, given their shared Shiite heritage, close geographic relationship and strong social ties. Intermarriage between Basrans and Iranians is common....

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. During WW II the SS did this a lot

they sent some of their peiple with party favors, lots of them , to try to get the trust of the locals, you see we are really working for ya... and all that... this is what I think was going down and somebody got their sixth sense up and going... and went ... these guys are double agents, so the police got into a little fight if you nkow what I mean.

These guys were in the midts of an op that required them to kill themselves, which is the only explanation as to the hot extraction... and to think that they were going to blow up something, no... I beleive they were playing the same games they played well back in the 1920s

[MADem]

16. I think this has to do with a specific target

They were after a person with that bomb, I don't think a suicide attack is plausible at all. That vehicle was likely to be parked near a mosque or a building housing someone they wanted to get rid of.

I also think this has to do with IRAN. The Iranians rebuffed us recently vis a vis nuke inspections and the Brits have rattled the sabre over it as well: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/20/wnuke20.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/20/ixnewstop.html

Lastly, their failure to advise the police of their actions suggests that the department is heavily infiltrated with Iranian sympathizers, insurgents, advocates for Shi'a Sharia Law or all of the above.

This was a tight plan that unravelled unexpectedly, and they had to extract those guys before they talked to the wrong person, perhaps under duress.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

24. Well, you have a right to your opinion

but I still think the target was specific and associated with Iran. And the thing went wobbly.

[Usrename]

71. Wobbly would explain it.

Does any sane person still believe we are trying to accomplish anything other than perpetual war in the region?

The Iraq invasion has ALWAYS made me think of Operation Rolling Thunder during Viet Nam. They took the prioritized list of 200 targets and bombed number 200 for two weeks, then number 199 for two weeks, and so on. Not really a winning military strategy when SAMs would be set up by the enemy after the second day of bombing the same target.

Everything possible has been done in Iraq to mobilize the resistance and discourage aid from allies or the international community. This operation to free Iraq and remove Sadaam should have been much less difficult than the removal of Malosivitch. That was a much more complicated situation than Sadaam's Iraq, and I don't care what Condi says!

[Zuni]

80. that makes sense

good analysis

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. What are 'party favours'? (n/t)

[Henny Penny]

40. I presume sweets and small toys etc n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. explosives

[stickdog]

87. So why all the obfuscation, then? Why the ridiculous costumes?

Sorry, but it doesn't add up. This wasn't an attempt at infiltration -- although that would be heinous enough.

This was an inside job that went awry.

[Richard Steele]

23. "infiltrate the real resistance"???????

They ARE the "resistance"!

Osama's family is good friends with the Bushes...
Al-Zarquawi has been dead for years...
OUR tax dollars created the TALIBAN.
OUR tax dollars gave Saddam the only WMDs he ever had...

I'm sorry, but you are WRONGwrongWRONG!

The British response proves you WRONG!

If they were "good guys", a single phone call
to Iraqs puppet government would have seen them quietly released.

Instead, we saw ARMOR mobilized in a full-scale ASSAULT
to prevent their interrogation.

Someone IMPORTANT is very worried about what those
2 "soldiers" might tell our Iraqi "Allies"

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

25. WOOBAWOOBA

[Richard Steele]

28. Well, as long as we are being completely incoherent...

[radwriter0555]

30. "Touches finger to nose and POINTS..." That's it exactly...

well said.

[SodoffBush]

54. I need to read more Clancey novels to follow this logic

not saying I doubt you, as I don't doubt Bush/Blair are that much over the edge.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. You may want to do that,

I am a writer and talk to retired snake eaters from time to time...

Picked up some of the lingo from them, and I guess now can spot an op gone badly...

[psychopomp]

83. I talk to the logically challenged from time to time...

now I can spot thinking gone badly...

How are two obviously white guys going to infiltrate anything at all? They were looking to blend in enough to have cursory cover but that is about it. Have you any idea how different the dialects of Arabic are? As different as English, let me tell you, and just as I can tell the difference between an Indian, Australian, British or Singaporean speaker Arabic speakers can tell you where a person is from based on their dialect.

Once these guys opened their mouths they would be dead givaways, even if they were fluent in Arabic, which they probably were not.

edit: changed "idiots" to "the logically challenged" --must be civil...

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. Yep and I can also spot those who like to do

drive by attakcs...

Look these guys were headhunting, and it went south... you may speculate how many ways you may want to, but they were SAS confirmed now by the British Press...they also confirmed that they were on a special assignment, they won't go beyond there.

[psychopomp]

92. I am saying your "story" on how the two were infiltrating runs counter to

the obvious. If you want to cloud the issue then you are doing a lousy job.

[stickdog]

88. Yes, it was an op gone bad -- an op to blow something up and

blame it on "insurgents."

State sponsored terrorism is a lot more likely than state sponsored delivery of explosives to insurgents in order to "infiltrate" the "bad guys."

We have met the "enemy" and ...

[MADem]

77. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras

I have no intel on this, but my take is that it is much simpler than some postulate. You can get away with something a thousand times, it is the thousand and first time that can screw the pooch.

Occam had a point, or a Razor!

[stickdog]

86. That's the BEST spin anyone can put on this MURDEROUS black ops

team.

The explosives were meant to be used on PEOPLE, not as a "peace offering" to help infiltrate a local gang of insurgents.

[MADem]

6. Close ups

[dutchdemocrat]

17. Done

Remove spaces for link.
www. chris-floyd.com/images/brits. jpg

[radwriter0555]

62. How about a photo of the gear found in the dude's car?

A grab from footage released on September 20, 2005 shows weapons which Iraqi police said were confiscated from two undercover British soldiers after their arrest in Basra, southern Iraq, September 19, 2005. (Al-Iraqiya via Reuters television/Reuters)

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/iraq/082701iraqplane/im:/050920/photos_wl/2005_09_20t104655_450x372_us_iraq;_ylt=AnP2DryFvAGOz16BpRSbOdwHcggF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3dmhrOGVvBHNlYwNzc20-

?

?

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Yep your party favors, yep

sorry to be cynical but they were caught, the op went bad, if this was felse flag like some have sugested, the hot extraction would not have been needed...

Oh and some of those party favors are ... part of your explosives package

[sadiesworld]

69. Why would the hot extraction not have been needed if this was false flag?

That makes no sense.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. becuase thsoe are disposable and deniable assets

until the op is over... that is why... this has all the hallmarks of soemthign else...

What we all saw though was a peek into the shadow war, just one more layer of the mess we have created

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

93. You provide no reasoning to support your position that 'hot extraction'

essentially proves your complicated 'infiltration' scenario.

Others of us are saying if these guys were out pretending to be Arabs, and actually committing acts of mayhem, murder, terrorism under orders from the British and U.S. governments, then it is rather OBVIOUS that those governments would have a STRONG INTEREST, at the HIGHEST LEVELS, in either recovering or killing those men IMMEDIATELY so that the governments' role not be exposed.

If it were revealed that the Bush administration ORDERED Special Forces to commit terrorist acts dressed as Arabs, to maintain a "reason" for us to "need" to be in Iraq, it's one of the few things that would actually bring the Bush administration down. Even now. As crappy as the media is, and as dumbed down as the American public is. Shrubco would lose half of their voters. I won't even comment on how sad it is that they wouldn't lose ALL of them.

And, by the way, you have provided no plausible scenario on how white dudes dressed as Arabs could hope to 'infiltrate' an Arab group or movement. Or VC for that matter. Links please. Now if white dudes were going to dress up like Arabs, or VC, and commit asssassinations or terrorist acts, and slink off into the darkness, to either discredit and blame their enemy for these acts, or to commit acts that are politically unacceptable at home, then that IS plausible, but is a completely different beast than 'infiltrating' those organizations.

[radwriter0555]

64. Check out the advisory on these guys via the wire services....

?

ATTENTION EDITORS - ADVISORY FOR PICTURES BAG18/19/20/21 WHICH MOVED AT APPROXIMATELY 1330GMT ON SEPTEMBER 19, 2005. THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT REQUESTS THAT THE IDENTIFICATION OF THESE MEN IS NOT REVEALED, EITHER VIA PIXELLATION OF THEIR FACES OR BY NOT PUBLISHING THE PHOTOS. REUTERS SINGAPORE A British citizen detained by Iraqi police sits in a police lockup in the southern Iraq city of Basra September 19, 2005. The Iraqi authorities detained two British nationals in the city of Basra on Monday for firing on police, a senior Iraqi official said. The senior Iraqi official said he had been informed by the British military that they were undercover soldiers in civilian clothes. 'They were driving a civilian car and were dressed in civilian clothes when a shooting took place between them and Iraqi patrols,' the Iraqi official told Reuters. The names of the men have not been released. REUTERS/Atef Hassan

[okieinpain]

68. Warrior being used to collect the men "might"

But the Ministry of Defence denied reports that Warriors had broken in. It said that a Warrior being used to collect the men "might" have accidentally knocked into a wall as it reversed in the dark.


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[Usrename]

96. My 12 year old nephew's spontaneous rection to your post was:

Yeah, I guess those night vision goggles don't do anything -

bwahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahha - smart kid

[okieinpain]

98. hey that's a good one, wonder why the reporters didn't think of that

sad is it. a 12 year is smarter then a supposedly seasoned journalist.

[Dancing_Dave]

4. It's a great thing cops caught them so red-handed!

So why weren't more NYC cops this honest right after the 9/11 propaganda coup???

[ladylibertee]

5. rather puzzling

[radwriter0555]

7. There is nothing puzzling about this at all. They were caught driving a

car that was to be used to stage yet another "suicide attack" on iraqi civilians and iraqi police.

They've been doing this all along. I'll also bet you see an instant drop in said 'suicide bombers' until the chiefs can get more explosives experts in there to stir crap up again.

[ladylibertee]

14. Time for us to leave

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. Folks, we have a winner

We are probably behind half the shit that happens in Iraq. Everything from the Red Cross bombing, to Nick Berg and now this.

This is one of the reasons why they never catch anyone and that the Iraqi prisons are filled with innocent people instead.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. No the resistance is very real

it has been very real from day one... just as it was during the 1920s and 30s and 40s and 50s, they drove the brits out once....

By thinking we are behind all this stuff you are also denying the very real nationalism of Iraqis, by the way... these same argumnets were also made during Nam... I guess the VC was not real either.

[Minstrel Boy]

74. I think you're misrepresenting people's positions.

You respond to a post that states "We are probably behind half the shit" with "By thinking we are behind all this stuff..."

I don't see anyone saying there is no such thing as an authentic resistance. And you yourself acknowledge that false flag ops are a fact on the ground.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. false flags ops are a fact of war

not this one, but a fact of war

That said... I think you are misundersatanding what I am saying... things are far more complex than people want to admit or are willing to admit, because of ideological reasons, many want to blame all this shit on us... and yes we started it, but there is far more going on than what people want to admit

[FM Arouet666]

8. Could it be that we are behind the insurgency.

Sure, think about it. Without an uprising, the U.S. would be out of Iraq, and that is not why we are there. The U.S. can never leave. We have to stay, maintain the peace, and have military bases in the middle east. That is all part of the plan, the Neocon, agenda for a new century. Keep things stirred up, make it look bad, so we can stay forever. How better to wield influence over the middle east.

Just a thought..............

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. no the insurgency is very real and very local

just as real and local as it was in the 1920s, but we are trying to braek it... this is what this sounds like quite brutally honest and it went south.

[mogster]

31. Well, there are differing views on this

You seem awfully sure of your points, if you don't mind me asking.

Provocation techniques like these Brits were caught using is a known method of stirring up trouble, it isn't surprising at all if it turned out to be true.

Why do you think Bush/Blair want this war to end when they lied like hell to make it come about? And fucked up the invasion beyond any coherent, explainable way of doing any military operation?

I have for a long time suspected CIA/MI6 to be at least partly behind the 'insurgency', exploiting it for what it's worth to prolong the war, kill more people and keep the PNAC dreams alive.

Peace in Iraq means that Bush is meat - remember his father. He won the most overwhelming victory in modern history, yet he was not reelected.

Bush need that war like a drunk need a drink. He doesn't want it to go away.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. If they were white dudes how could they hope to 'infiltrate' insurgency.

They could "pass" as Arab long enough with costume to bomb or assassinate someone and slip into the shadows. As long as no one spent time up close with them.

[glitch]

52. That's the clincher.

Edit to add: if they still have the car and explosives they can trace them to the other car bombs going off around Iraq.
On Democracy Now this morning they said the two were being held in a house nearby and returned diplomatically. So the assault on the police station was not necessary, or a diversion, or whatever. Unless the assault retrieved the car and the explosives, which would be significant.

[MADem]

78. Thank you

My view: they are not AT ALL on the front lines of the insurgency, they indeed have little to do with it at all--they are simply, under orders, using the atmosphere of violence and suspicion to pick off targets. This is simply a crime of opportunity, perhaps well planned opportunity, and no doubt they have done it before, but they are not responsible for the chaos, they are simply following directives, joining in and advancing the agenda of their superiors amidst the confusion.

The question still remains--who, in and about Basrah, was the target?????

At a distance, in a vehicle, they are fine. Up close, even with superb flat out, spot on, language skills, someone would be asking "Who is your mother? Who is your father? What village??? What school??? You do not look like us...Who do you know? Who knows YOU???"

You can pull the bullshit over their eyes a bit if you claim a fair Irish ma who abandoned her nation for the love of a fine local lad, or even a half French, half Algerian mom (makes a bit more sense), but those guys are way too MEAT AND TWO VEG to pass for long. It is the small things, little tics and mannerisms, that give you away, as well...it ain't easy to pass in a tight society, and IMHO, these guys are just not scruffy enough, weathered enough, with the right haircuts despite increased length, to do it right at close range and careful inspection. The fitness level is too western--not that Arabs are not strong, they just don't go for the total body business the way they do in the West--a bit of a bay window and short, bandy legs would be more convincing. Even the shoes are not right.

Just my take, I could be wrong. I have been gone from the fair for quite some time, so I am not up on Middle East fashion and influences of late. But I bet I could fit in for longer than these dudes in a contest...

As ever, your mileage may vary...

[Catrina]

55. I disagree

to the extent that the 'insurgents' are necessarily the bad guys. They, according to most Iraqis, are the 'resistance'. Very naturaly when a country is occupied against the will of its people.

I agree with post #7 regarding the fact that no one is ever caught, ie, Nick Berg's killers, (remember that superhuman Zarqawi was supposedly in the video? But, oops, the one-legged Zarqawi was not forgotten as expected, by the general population so they gave him another leg!!! Only, that debunked their own 'terrorist connection' theory, which was not forgotten either!!

Oh, what webs we start to weave when first we practice to deceive!!

Zarqawi has never been seen by any ordinary Iraqi. A foreigner in their country, supposedly killing their citizens and most Iraqis laugh at the idea of this mythical figure. Personally I wonder how they can name him with a straight face, in every, single 'terror' attack that takes place.

Federal fairy tales, only some of us, actually most of us, don't believe a word they say anymore. They're not even good liars.

I think they have been stirring up trouble for a while in Iraq. When we say 'withdraw the troops' they say 'there will be civil war, see what they're doing and we owe it to the Iraqi people etc. etc.' As far as I'm concerned, they lied about the reasons for going there and that's all they've done since.

If they were infiltrators, they didn't do much to hide their ids as British citizens. Seems to me they weren't planning on anyone getting a close up look at them. They merely wanted to leave an impression that they were Arabs.

And why shoot at the police? Were they there to release the 'prisoners' maybe, but failed? Then the tanks came and finished the job, since all 150 inmates escaped? Who knows, but bottom line, they shouldn't be there, and never should have been there ~ so much death and destruction, and for what?

[moodforaday]

67. Two different "insurgencies"

I think there are (at least) two. One is against the occupiers - these are mostly Iraqis themselves (plus whoever wants to aid them, possibly Iranians, Syrians, etc.) These people attack the coalition forces, usually US troops, because they want them out of their country.

Then there is another kind of "insurgency" - ostensibly Iraqis (Arabs, anyway), fighting other Iraqis. It is these actions that we now seem to have proof are instigated by US/UK special forces. And in the last few months there has been much more of the latter than the former.

[stickdog]

89. Based on what, pray tell?

Do you really believe that not a single black op mission has been completed under the infinite official cover "Zarqawi" or "the Iraqi insurgency"?

[radwriter0555]

20. The US IS the "insurgency" at least in the rationale for staying there

and doing the dirty deeds.

[elehhhhna]

48. Yep. You nailed it.

[pnorman]

10. If THIS doesn't rate a vote for Greatest,

I don't know WHAT does. I'll look for a second source though. Xinhua.net (PRC) by itself isn't quite enough.

pnorman

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. not the first post on this

BBC had it too

[dutchdemocrat]

15. BBC?

Link Please...

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

36. Go to bbc.co.uk, story is not hard to find. Also linked in my post lower

in this thread.

[Wizard777]

18. No coalition offensives without permission. Iraq is sovereign now.

So the British have either violated that treaty or the Iraqi government is giving their Blessings on a car bombing that could be labeled as insurgent attack. Soon Zarqawi will releasing video's saying, We didn't know. That's not our car bomb and not our fault.

[MADem]

27. I say look east, to Iran

Basra is a defacto Iranian city--you can speak Farsi and be understood in all the shops. There are posters of Khomeini everywhere.

This has to do with Iran, somehow. And the Iraqi government, despite mixed feelings in Basra due to strong religious and cultural ties and intermarriage, remembers that longass war with them, and doesn't remember it at all fondly.

[dutchdemocrat]

22. Washington Post says explosives too.

Washington Post says explosives too.

SNIP

Iraqi security officials on Monday variously accused the two Britons they detained of shooting at Iraqi forces or trying to plant explosives. Photographs of the two men in custody showed them in civilian clothes.

SNIP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/19/AR2005091900572.html

[EuroObserver]

44. Yep. Second source, sort of.

That Washington Post report (towards the end) reads thus:

"Iraqi security officials on Monday variously accused the two Britons they detained of shooting at Iraqi forces or trying to plant explosives. Photographs of the two men in custody showed them in civilian clothes.

"When British officials apparently sought to secure their release, riots erupted. Iraqi police cars circulated downtown, calling through loudspeakers for the public to help stop British forces from releasing the two. Heavy gunfire broke out and fighting raged for hours, as crowds swarmed British forces and set at least one armored vehicle on fire.

"Witnesses said they saw Basra police exchanging fire with British forces. Sadr's Mahdi Army militia joined in the fighting late in the day, witnesses said. A British military spokesman, Darren Moss, denied that British troops were fighting Basra police." - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/19/AR2005091900572.html

Observers may be interested in monitoring this site in the coming days: http://www.albasrah.net/maqalat/articles_E.htm

Brits especially should be interested in reading the following "Letter to the British People" - http://www.albasrah.net/ar_articles_2005/0705/eman_080705.htm

On edit: BBC version (at present time) here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4262336.stm

Reuters says: ""It is a very unfortunate development that the British forces should try to release their forces the way it happened," Haider al-Ebadi, an adviser to Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari, told a news conference in Baghdad.

"The operation followed rioting that began, according to police and local officials, when the two men fired on a police patrol. At least two Iraqis were killed in the violence." - http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-09-20T133756Z_01_HO032036_RTRUKOC_0_UK-IRAQ.xml

[RepublicanElephant]

26. and now...

...4 more americans killed by a "suicide bomber".

[opihimoimoi]

29. The Brits sent in Waldo and Bozo to bomb them. NOT Shoot the place

Dark Ops.....

[Wizard777]

32. It's okay to take a knife to a gun fight.

As long as the guy with the gun is British. Dayum! Looks like they aren't doing any better with IED's. LMAO

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

33. BBC, CNN links

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4262336.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/09/19/iraq.main/index.html

[oblivious]

46. That CNN report is quite important...these two were firing on civilians.

This seems to be the only report that mentions this. All the others say they shot two policemen. According to these two paragraphs, their "special security task" was to fire on civilians. This is pretty hard proof that the coalition is at least partly behind the attacks on Shiite civilians. It's not unreasonable to assume now that all of the attacks are false flag ops by the invaders.

The official said two unknown gunmen in full Arabic dress began firing on civilians in central Basra, wounding several, including a traffic police officer. There were no fatalities, the official said.

The two gunmen fled the scene but were captured and taken in for questioning, admitting they were British Marines carrying out a "special security task," the official said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/09/19/iraq.main/index.html
(Para 3 and 4)

[RepublicanElephant]

35. from aljazeera...

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9E60DCBA-3470-4FF5-AA15-8000CCF163E9.htm

At a recent military briefing in Basra, a journalist was told British soldiers had been ordered not to stop at Iraqi police checkpoints for fear that fighters could be posing as Iraqi police.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

37. Nominated and kicked.

[theHandpuppet]

38. I noticed this tucked at the very end of a BBC article on this incident

"On Tuesday a suicide car bombing in the northern city of Mosul killed a US diplomatic security guard and three US private contractors, according to American officials."

Sure are a lot of mercenaries running around Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4262336.stm

[radwriter0555]

39. kah POW...

for the morning crew.

[Guaranteed]

42. WTF is going on????? nt

[confludemocrat]

43. A glimpse into the blackest, vile-est corner of a dirty filthy war we are

gonna pay for this in some way. Sickening. All in our names. Get to DC!!

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Don't you silly know

we're liberating them!! We're giving them freedom!! :sarcasm:

[rman]

47. oops, yet another false-flag op uncovered

Breaking: British tanks smash Iraqi jail to free(yes, you read that right)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4820809&mesg_id=4820809

[Supersedeas]

49. no worries, DiRita has investigations underway

[converted_democrat]

50. Damn.........n/t

[Boxerfan]

51. CNN International has it on front page...

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/09/20/iraq.basra/index.html

Doesn't mention the car bomb...

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. BBC: Al Jazeera shows several guns, but no explosives in car

Richard Galpin said al-Jazeera news channel footage, purportedly of the equipment carried in the men's car, showed assault rifles, a light machine gun, an anti-tank weapon, radio gear and medical kit.

This is thought to be standard kit for the SAS operating in such a theatre of operations, he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4264614.stm

An anti-tank weapon sounds like overkill, for British forces. They don't have to defend themselves against armoured vehicles.

[MADem]

79. Tribal leaders do not travel in camel caravans, they ride in armoured cars

with bodyguards in SUVs fore and aft and beside them.

Again I wonder, who was the target????

[defiant1]

56. All I see is a bunch of speculation....

I doubt the truth will ever come out.

[radwriter0555]

57. We know that the truth was not reported by the US or british media.. My

money is on the chinese report..

I just know these guys were busted cold, shooting iraqi cops and with a car loaded for a fake suicide bomb.

We KNOW it. We just KNOW it, like we KNOW the GOP cheated in both the past 2 elections.

We KNOW it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. more info

this looks like a shadow war on top of the regular one



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/international/middlee...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169841,00.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5B9D68F9-E629-41...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1573933,00....

and in particular pay attention to Juan Cole

http://www.juancole.com/

[norml]

65. The day that Iraqi anger exploded in the face of the British occupiers

The day that Iraqi anger exploded in the face of the British occupiers
By Helen McCormack
Published: 20 September 2005


The dramatic events began to unfold just before dawn yesterday, when two British nationals were detained by Iraqi authorities. It emerged later that they were British soldiers. Dressed in plain clothes - according to some they were wearing traditional Arab dress - the two men had been driving in an unmarked car when they arrived at a checkpoint in the city.

In the confrontation that followed, shots were fired, and two Iraqi policemen were shot, one of whom later died. The Iraqi authorities blamed the men, reported to be undercover commandos, and arrested them.

Mohammed al-Abadi, an official in the Basra governorate said that the two men had looked suspicious to police. "A policeman approached them and then one of these guys fired at him. Then the police managed to capture them," he said.

"They refused to say what their mission was. They said they were British soldiers and ask their commander about their mission," he added.


snip


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article313848.ece

[norml]

66. British "Undercover Soldiers" Caught driving Booby Trapped Car

British "Undercover Soldiers" Caught driving Booby Trapped Car
"They refused to say what their mission was."


September 20, 2005
Reuters



The following Reuters report raises some disturbing questions.

Why were undercover British "soldiers" wearing traditional Arab headscarves firing at Iraqi police?

The incident took place just prior to a major religious event in Basra.

The report suggests that the police thought the British soldiers looked "suspicious". What was the nature of their mission?

Occupation forces are supposesd to be collaborating with Iraqi authorities. Why did Britsh Forces have to storm the prison using tanks and armoured vehicles to liberate the British undercover agents?

"British forces used up to 10 tanks " supported by helicopters " to smash through the walls of the jail and free the two British servicemen."

Was there concern that the British "soldiers" who were being held by the Iraqi National Guard would be obliged to reveal the nature and objective of their undercover mission?


snip


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050920&articleId=972

[Ganja Ninja]

95. Probably driving on the wrong side of the road too.

[confludemocrat]

70. The negligent release of 150 prisoners shows how out-of-control the sit-

uation is for the British. Who anywhere believes we are not past a point of no return, and as Juan Cole concludes by proxy, "in a revolutionary situation"? Those 150 included, it is concluded guerillas. Whomever is running the show on the "coalition of the willing" side should be canned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. hmm that would be Ronald Rumssfeld

care to deliver the pink slip?

[buzzsaw_23]

76. For some historical background

The British have a long history of this sort of thing. As do the, shhhhh....

Pay particular attention to the name Ken Livingstone. A real founder in the post-modern multi-national corporate mercenary model of controlling "areas of concern".


Formed to perform acts of sabotage and assassination behind enemy lines during during World War 2, the SAS evolved into a counter-insurgency regiment after the war. The 1969 Army Training manual stated that their tasks included:
"the ambush and harassment of insurgents, the infiltration of sabotage, assassination and demolition parties into insurgent-held areas, border surveillance, . . . liaison with, and organisation of friendly guerrilla forces operating against the common enemy". (3)

<snip>

Examples were found during the Mau-Mau rebellion in Kenya during the mid-fifties, when SAS officers commanded some of the infamous "pseudo gangs" that terrorised the civilian population; (4) in Borneo, where they used cross-border operations to attack and destroy guerrilla bases; (5) and in Aden in 1967, where they dressed as Arabs and would use an Army officer to lure Arab gunmen into a trap and kill them. (6) To defeat the insurgents counter-terror must be deployed back at them - described by Ken Livingstone as "subverting the subverters". (7) Little indication of this is found in Ambush. But in Fred Holroyd, we have a witness, and evidence that these tactics were used in Northern Ireland during the period of the Wilson government in the 1970's. Here are the origins of the so-called "shoot-to-kill" policy that John Stalker (and others) investigated, whose inquiry was effectively sabotaged by the RUC.

<nip>

It is clear now, that because elements within the security forces did not want a political deal with the IRA in the mid-seventies, and the military solution was only possible with a change at the top of the Labour leadership, MI5 and the SAS were prepared to use the same methods the IRA are condemned for - civilian deaths, assassinations, bombings and black propaganda—to bring this about.

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/dirty_war_in_ireland.htm


Strategy of tension

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


The Strategy of Tension (Italian; "strategia della tensione") is a way to control and manipulate public opinion using propaganda, disinformation, psychological warfare, agents provocateurs and terror. Coined in Italy during the trials of the 1970s and 1980s terror attacks and murders committed by neofascist terrorists backed by deviated intelligence agencies or NATO's secret stay-behind networks ("Gladio"). Other examples include Operation Condor in South America and events in Algeria during the 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_of_tension

[thecodewarrior]

81. Since

the British are occupying that area, they are responsible for its security. Running covert wet operations on public and the police shouldn't be tolerated.

I thought the 'insurgents' were on their 'last throes' months again we Bush said we turned that corner. So why does a smaller town which isn't the most violent have 'intelligence' running around as Al Queda, then get surprised when the cops arrest them and did their fucking job.

So the UK plays are power trumps your police station and call in air support without blinking about it. Here's in written in our puppet laws you signed.

UK talking points will be shutup, forget who those SAS were. None of this ever happened, anybody who wants answers is a conspiracy nut, look here, see this 7/7 footage we covered, and UBL #2 guy put a new DVD and its climbing the charts. Booga, booga

[buzzsaw_23]

82. for you home viewers we the media will now muddy the waters

"geez I don't know what to think I just read in the respectable paper of the state that there are seventeen theories as to what really happened."

"Those conspiracy types keep sayin'....."

"Let's just go to the game, red is playing blue tonight."

:toast:

[stickdog]

84. Remember the UN bombing all those months ago? The scores

of international journalists and Iraqi leaders who have been assassinated by "insurgents" and "Zarqawi"? The saga of Nick Berg?

Care to revisit any of these, coincidence theorists?

All of these actions fit the neocons' self-proclaimed agenda of "creative destruction" a little too close for comfort. Wouldn't you agree?

[Binka]

90. De Mello was the most trusted by the Iraqis

IMHO he was killed by a car bomb planted by US forces. I do not have time to post all links now but the bombing of the UN building was rife with US Black Op Stench. De Mello was ACTUALLY working to end the occupation. Bush and Bratz didn't and DON"T want that happening. EVER!

http://www.nndb.com/people/294/000023225/

Basra was going to be the gateway into Iran. Have Blair and crew let the cat out of the bag? Who we're these Mercs trying to kill in Basra?

[EuroObserver]

91. More explosive sources

There appears to have been this early report (in English) in Turkish media:

"The two British soldiers were dressed like Arabs and waved a British flag from the car and asked the police not to fire.

"The people were taken out of the car and searched and they were identified as British. The car was also searched and mines (ready to be placed on roadside) and arms were seized.

"They were arrested by the Iraqi police and taken for interrogation at a local police station. British officials are negotiating with Iraqi officials to have the men handed over to the British Army." - http://www.iha.com.tr/bin/directory.dll/pf?content=http%3A//www.iha.com.tr/bin/directory.dll/pub/news/getdoc%3Fsec%3D3%26nid%3D37540

Also, and probably quite a clincher, a Kos diary has many listeners to BBC World Service Radio hearing first reports which "initially identified the car the SAS drove as being: "full of explosives and bomb making equipment." " - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/20/43456/2343 (perhaps someone here at DU can also confirm this?).

BTW, there is plenty of confirmation that these were SAS. SAS are very Special Forces. Eg. today's Guardian front page headline article:

"The fragile situation in the south of the country was dramatically exposed when Iraqi police arrested two undercover British SAS soldiers on Monday and handed them over to militiamen before they were rescued. The incident came after months of concern that local security forces in the region had been infiltrated by radicals.

"Senior defence officials admitted yesterday that far from improving, the security situation in southern Iraq might well get worse over the next few months. They referred in particular to the Mahdi army, a militia headed by the radical Shia cleric, Moqtada al-Sadr." - http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1574668,00.html

[EuroObserver]

94. Also (versions multiply)...

"Many analysts and observers here had suspicions that the occupation was involved in some armed operations against civilians and places of worship and in the killing of scientists. But those were only suspicions that lacked proof. The proof came today through the arrest of the two British soldiers while they were planting explosives in one of the Basra streets. This proves, according to observers, that the occupation is not far from many operations that seek to sow sedition and maintain disorder, as this would give the occupation the justification to stay in Iraq for a longer period." - Syrian TV 19 September 2005 / BBC Monitoring

"...the sons of Basra caught two non-Iraqis, who seem to be Britons and were in a car of the Cressida type. It was a booby-trapped car laden with ammunition and was meant to explode in the centre of the city of Basra in the popular market." - Al Jazeera TV 14:14 GMT, 19 Sep 05 / BBC Monitoring

Both sources quoted here: http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050920&articleId=973

[Supersedeas]

97. the networks today are calling it a rescue mission