Captured British soldiers, dressed as ARABS, had ANTI TANK Missile!-Photos

[jackstraw45]

Edit: PLEASE call John Conyers [phone]), Robert Byrd (202-224-3954) and Henry Waxman [phone]) and ask them why undercover agents in Iraq need anti-tank missiles!

HOW is that not major news? WHAT were they doing with an ANTI TANK missile?




http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1142658

Iraq denounces British rescue in Basra

BASRA, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraq denounced British forces on Tuesday over a dramatic rescue of two undercover soldiers that could stoke hostility to the army in increasingly volatile southern Iraq.

British troops used an armored fighting vehicle on Monday to burst into an Iraqi jail in search of soldiers held by police in Basra. The British commander said he learned they had been handed to militia and ordered their rescue from a nearby house.

(cut)

Iraqi television on Tuesday showed footage of the two soldiers, unshaven and looking nervous as Iraqi police looked over wigs, Arab headresses, an anti-tank missile and communications equipment, all apparently used in their mission.

The images of the pair seemed sure to fuel suspicions by militias in Basra and elsewhere who believe foreign troops are on a secret mission to exploit Iraq.

(cut)

[SledDriver]

1. Insurgents? Baathists? Saddam loyalists?

Al Qaida in Iraq? GB breaks into the prison to rescue them?
:tinfoilhat:

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. SAS Operatiors

[HereSince1628]

64. More likely a hybrid like Rainbow 6

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. I am betting SAS, Rainbow Six is truly

fictional, for multiple reasons, and all have to do with operational concerns, OpOrds and security.. thuogh cooperation between the Minitry of Information (MI), MOD, DOD and CIA is very tight at very high levels... but rainbow six would be hampered by NOFOR papers

[cantstandbush]

99. The best way to stop these operations is to let the public know about them

Why hasn't the UK or US media reported on this horrible operation?

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. For the same reason you never learned of Project Phoenix

during Nam....

There is a need for secrecy, but what are they doing is something to be wondered about, but I don't expect them to go public with any of this...

Look there are times Spec Ops are justified (entebbe) there are times they are not, but most of the time war is waged at multiple levels, and this is the most secret of them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. self delete

[HereSince1628]

2. You call them soldiers, we call them operatives.

[jackstraw45]

4. We can call them Smurfs for all I care...

These MEN were freed by the British government who stormed the prison to get these guys as soon as possible.

They had an anti tank missile and arab dress.

Instead of debating terms, I think we need to get the word out on this to EVERYONE we know before it slips into the memory hole.

[elehhhhna]

5. the wigs are damnning.

[jackstraw45]

7. Nick Berg anyone?

Now REALLY makes one wonder who was behind his killing....

[FreedomAngel82]

26. How did he get to where he was in the first place?

Why was it him? Did he have anything? I remember reading about this and I saw the photo (someone posted a link and I went there and no warning). :\

[QuettaKid]

You do know there was

a Nick Berg/Jeff Gannon connection.....I'll see if I can find it.

[FreedomAngel82]

29. Seriously??

How?

[Frederik]

55. Even stranger

Nick Berg's e-mail address was in the possession of "20th hijacker" Zacckarias Moussaoui when he was arrested.

[converted_democrat]

75. This??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3238821

[mogster]

57. OK. Time for this link

Note that the source is not the best, and I consider this to be info of dubious nature. But still.

http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm

I was debating several rw'ers at the time Mr. Berg was killed. They almost seemed thankful for this murder, and turned from being on the defensive (caused by the Abu Ghraib pics) to offensively justify the torture used in AG.

[ClayZ]

60. Oh, how they like to play dress up!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4827309
Jeb Bush Reveals His “Mystical Warrior” Friend
Last week, after “more than an hour of solemn ceremony” swearing in Rep. Marco Rubio (R-FL) as House speaker, Gov. Jeb Bush stepped to the podium to tell “a short story about ‘unleashing Chang,’ his ‘mystical warrior’ friend.”
Below, courtesy of the Gainesville Sun, are Bush’s words, “spoken before hundreds of lawmakers and politicians”:




“Chang is a mystical warrior. Chang is somebody who believes in conservative principles, believes in entrepreneurial capitalism, believes in moral values that underpin a free society.
“I rely on Chang with great regularity in my public life. He has been by my side and sometimes I let him down. But Chang, this mystical warrior, has never let me down.”
Bush then unsheathed a golden sword and gave it to Rubio as a gift.
‘’I'm going to bestow to you the sword of a great conservative warrior,'’ he said, as the crowd roared.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/20/jeb-bush-reveals /

[txindy]

67. Jeb looks like someone's been filling him with helium

He's his mother without the wig.

[cantstandbush]

94. I have always had my doubts about the Nick Berg incident.

Now I am almost convinced that we (the coalition) killed him.

[converted_democrat]

3. This whole thing just gets stranger and stranger by the hour.....n/t

[wtmusic]

6. It's the "dressing as Arabs" part

which punches a big hole in the UK official line

[jackstraw45]

8. Anti Tank weapon most disturbing to me

Either they were going to USE it on a tank (American or British) or sell/give it to someone who would USE it on a tank.

Who is the British Government trying to demonize here?

Who is holding up the "constitution?"

Lots of questions...

[alfredo]

25. Was their costume reminiscent of Iranian citizens?

If it was, it would be clear they are trying to drive a wedge between Iran and Iraq.

The anti Tank weapon could have been for some soft target like a bus, restaurant, or police station.

[doublethink]

125. That was my first gut feeling ....

but Iranians are Persian, not Arab. It would make sense to pull this shit off in Basra and blame it on the Iranians, that's where I would suspect an operation like this to happen. But The Arab attire confuses me? :shrug: Then again most of the hijackers on 911 were Arabs too, and as we all know ..... yea yea Bush went to war with Iraq. Maybe the powers that be still can't tell the difference? Geesh .... Peace.

[alfredo]

134. Arab is a generic term used by those who don't know or

don't care.

[doublethink]

135. Yep ........ found this ......

From Al-Jazeera .... "A policeman at the scene said the two detained Britons were wearing traditional Iraqi jallabahs and wigs." for what it's worth. Probably just our own irresponsible western media reporting 'Arab Attire' .... peace. :)

[alfredo]

137. I read that, but it

just passed over my head. Some kind of provocation was going on, but I don't know enough about the internal politics of the region.

[MADem]

146. Or a hard target like the armored car of a tribal or religious leader

Basra looks like an Iranian town in many respects. You can go anywhere there and get by on Farsi, not speaking a lick of Arabic, FWIW....they are culturally similar, and intermarried like crazy there.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. It also makes you wonder now

a lot about many suicide bombings and stuff. :shrug: At least me anyways.

[jackstraw45]

133. Sad how far our trust in government has fallen....

Can't help but suspect the WORST of this administration and their British puppet Carlyle-Group-in-Training Tony Blair.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. No, I think it's the 'shooting at policemen' bit

I don't object to undercover work by governments. It's when they injure or kill people I object. And an anti-tank weapon isn't necessary for personal defence.

[jackstraw45]

14. I agree about undercover work but WHO has tanks in Iraq?

THAT'S the point.

That weapon can ONLY be used to KILL our soldiers and british soldiers.

I see HUNDREDS of DAMN "support our troops" stickers but when this kind of crap comes out, we shrug.

Don't get it....

It's a simple question we need to be asking.

WHY did these men have anti-tank weapons when the "insurgents" DON'T have tanks?!?!

[MADem]

147. As I noted above, they work real well against an armored car

A lot of those tribal leaders and religious leaders tool around in "hard cars"--often Mercedes, which makes a pretty good one.

[wtmusic]

15. The Ministry of Defence will claim:

The policeman were suspected insurgent infiltrators. But why would it be necessary to risk Brit soldiers' lives to friendly fire by having them dress as "insurgents"? And the anti-tank weapon (as JackStraw also noted) -- no plausible explanation.

[Henny Penny]

36. I don't object to people infiltrating terrorist organisations...

if the motive is honourable. But I just can't see how two blue eyed British guys in wigs are going to be able to infiltrate a group of Iraqi insurgents.....

[MADem]

148. I do not think this was an infiltration op at all

I think they wanted to look good from a distance, in case of witnesses. I also think they were going after someone who travels in a hardened vehicle--either a troublesome religious leader, or a politician who has gone off the reservation.

If you are in the market for a hard car, check this site out: http://www.alpha-armouring.com/armored/mercedes/

[electron_blue]

84. why?

I'm having a slow brained day

[wtmusic]

132. The Ministry of Defence claims

the Basra police are highly infiltrated by insurgents, and the two soldiers were essentially kidnapped in retribution for GB arresting a militant cleric over the weekend. They would use the kidnapped soldiers in a hostage trade to get the cleric back.

Why would the Iraqis kidnap some of their own (the disguised soldiers) as retribution against the Brits? Doesn't add up.

[mod mom]

10. Would someone please explain this episode to me? Why would this

occur unless they were trying to frame Arabs. Is it an excuse to go after Iran?
We've heartdUncle Dick has an itchy trigger finger when it comes to nukes. Why does the photo blur their faces?

[Mika]

12. Could be some Brit troops trying to make a buck on the side?

Wonder what the street value of anti-tank ware is?

:shrug:

[jackstraw45]

16. The Brits STORMED the prison with 5 tanks to rescue these guys...

Doubt they were just out to "make a buck."

The Brits wanted these men back NOW.

[MADem]

149. We do not officially assassinate people

but I think their mission was along those lines, frankly.

[Minstrel Boy]

17. Apparently not: "British forces informed the Iraqi authorities that

the two soldiers were performing an official duty" http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/19/content_3514065.htm

[Mika]

21. So they say.

If they say so then it must be true. :eyes:

:shrug:

[Minstrel Boy]

24. Their actions support their words.

They got their men out of there fast because an op had gone south.

[Mika]

30. The entire op has gone south, but the Brits are still there.

I really don't know what's up w/this episode. Still, I don't trust a word from the coalition of occupiers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. If these two boys are still in theater I will be shocked

they were taken directly to air transport and flown out of theater... yuo can bet on that, and you will never hear of them again.. they will be debriefed, and if it was not their fault they will remain with the SAS... if it was their fault consequences will acrue

[txindy]

69. Or they got them out of there fast simply to avoid a public trial

That would further inflame the British public's views on whether the British military should be in Iraq. That was to be avoided at all cost.

[slampoet]

51. So by implication...

the Brits are saying that the official duty of their undercover is to shoot at police, disable tanks, and detonate (or at least drive around) car bombs.

So the official duty of British undercover operatives is terrorism.

[jackstraw45]

56. For our TROOP'S sake, that's what we need to know NOW!

Supporting troops involves more than buying a $1 sticker at walmart.

Call your reps and ask their thoughts on this!

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Makes you wonder about the rest of the so called 'insurgency'

My guess is that at least half of what we are seeing are special ops missions trying to stir up trouble.

I bet if we got the hell out of Iraq, the Iraqis would stop killing each other.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Of course

I still remember when Tom Brokaw retired on MSNBC he one time had a special of all he's seen in his years of tv journalism. Once he was in Iraq in the very beginning. He went to a young guy (twenties-thirties) and asked him what he thought of everything going on. The guy said, "I'd like to fight the Americans. Not the people, the government. I also saw a video of an Iraqi in disguise talking and saying how as long as the insurgence and occupiers were in the country they'd never give up. It's my understanding from briefly viewing the Iraqi people they are very strong individuals and would do whatever they could to save their country from us. They're not stupid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. and they threw the brits out once already

remember the brits marched in, oh in 1919 and finally pulled out in 1955

[ClayZ]

71. I am with you! I think bu$hco is the spoon

that stirs up the most sh_t.

All should look back, clear to 9/11, with a different shades of pink sunglasses.

Where are those pictures of the some of the "supposed" 9/11 hijackers, still alive somewhere?

:tinfoilhat:

[Binka]

11. You Can Not Spell Blair With Out Spelling LIAR! eom

[KansDem]

37. And a "B liar" at that!

Not even grade "A"

[lonestarnot]

131. OMG.... how could I have missed this excellent observation for a sign?

www.freewayblogger.com stealing it... thanks

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Once again, these two boys are SAS

Operators, who were caught on the wrong side of some real bad shit (infiltrating the enemy, hence the party flavors)

If any of you believes that the iraqi resistance is not real, and strong and well organized, I have a huge bridge to sell you.

No John LeCarre is not fiction, some of it is real... so is a lot of Clancy... and if you want to know one aspect of the cold war most people are not familiar with, read Blind Man's Bluff

oh and these boys are no longer in theater... but oh boy the debrief will be a killer

Oh and we did the same shit during the Vietnam War (I am betting we are doing the same shit right now in Iraq and Afghanistan as well), but the Viet Cong was not real either, now was it?

:sarcasm:

Oh and the shit these two were doing was so hot that the Brits did a hot extraction and to hell with diplomacy. Quite possibly the kind that usually operators leave the last bullet in the gun for themselves.

[Minstrel Boy]

19. Once again, "infiltrating the enemy"

makes no sense when you are talking about two Brits like these characters.

Impersonating the enemy at speed and distance, yes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Actually infiltrating makes more sense than you will ever

admit... they needed the party flavors to get the confidence of their targets. This is an old trick going back oh to the origin of organized warfare... infiltrate, learn plans, even participate in some raids and then get the hammer to fall on your enemy. they were going after a high priority target.. a very high priority, the kind that may mean some of the peons die.

Look I am not making this up, spoken to plenty of snake eaters over the years. Hell one of them is a good friend, he did some of this same shit in Nam.

[Minstrel Boy]

28. And how does "inflitrating" explain their

shooting and killing police officers?

[Selatius]

Many resistance groups target people seen as collaborating with "the enemy

As a result, police officers and Iraqi national guardsmen have suffered a very high toll. The same phenomenon was seen in Saigon during the Vietnam War with those seen as collaborating with the South Vietnamese government or with the US itself being targeted for killing, even though they were fellow Vietnamese.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. That reminds me

of the documentary that was made about the "Patriot Act". Police and the FBI would send people into anti-war and what they would consider "leftist" groups and try to start up trouble. Luckily the people resisted. So if it can happen here then surely it can happen there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Exactly and some did it very succesfully

one particular sheriff, they learned what he was after he was killed in an auto accident and the obi apeared in the paper

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Their contacts smelled a rat

as I said this went south, but the actions of the british military, no time for negotiations or to get them out, but a hot extraction means they had very hot info in their heads, and needed to be gotten out FAST

[leftchick]

39. do you mean to tell me

that the US used white American soldiers to try and infiltrate the VC? I know of hiring of death squads and operation phoenix but infiltration of Viet Cong soldiers with white boys? How does that work?

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. They did,

Project Omega, and they worked with the CIA on that one.. a Colonel's career was ruined on that one when it went south

[LibertyorDeath]

81. They are murdering Iraqi Citizens whole sale

SAS, these people carry out orders & if that includes murdering

Civilians then that's what they do.
Why do you think John the death squads all love me Negroponte was ambassador to Iraq.

SAS = Special Assassination Squads.

Power & greed could care less if they have to eviscerate children on the road to domination.

Does this have to be spelled out in glowing neon for us.

Apparently so.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. No, SAS is the special Air Service

whose motto is... he who dares wins.

Special forces, UK troops, going back to the darkest days of WW II

[LibertyorDeath]

107. Yes nadinbrzezinski you take my SAS reference to literally

I grew up in Britain my Father spent his Military career with the Black Watch regiment.

All my uncles & both grandfather's are former military.

I know precisely who the SAS are.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Sorry, but some may not know what the

Black Watch is, or for that matter the SAS... they no longer make good teevee bout them, like the Rat Patrol.

Now that was fun to watch.

[electron_blue]

85. that's what I was thinking

Isn't that what 'secret ops' do? And worse, probably? All in the name of intelligence gathering.

sick, but hardly new.

Or am I missing something here?

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. no you are not

what Black Ops do, requires a special kind of person, and usually we never see them..... we have...

[jackstraw45]

22. These men weren't ARABS - couldn't infiltrate a Mosque much less "enemy"

Arab GARB wouldn't allow them to properly "infiltrate the enemy" - it would allow them the external appearance of being arabs if someone saw them for a moment or two.

But they wouldn't be able to pass themselves off as Arabs in face to face meetings.

[Squatch]

27. John Walker Lindh...n/t

[Minstrel Boy]

31. And Lindh wasn't US special ops, was he?

He didn't infiltrate, he converted, and it was a process of years of gaining trust. And he was in Afghanistan long before it became a theatre of war.

[Squatch]

41. Immaterial.

Infiltrate/convert...how will the organization know the difference?

[Minstrel Boy]

46. Well, you won't infiltrate successfully

showing up in wigs, as these guys evidently did. Lindh at least grew his own hair.

That's one tip off for the recruiters.

[Squatch]

48. Well, that just shows they need better training.

[Frederik]

79. Oh please

If you think these guys were trying to infiltrate the insurgents, and just being ridiculously incompetent and naive about it, I've got a bridge to sell you. This is the SAS (most likely, could be MI6). They are the most professional covert operatives in the world. If they wanted to infiltrate the insurgents (and I'm sure they do that, too), they would of course use people with Middle Eastern backgrounds, who could speak flawless Arabic, recite the Qu'ran, and not immediately be suspected of being infiltrators.

These two fellows were on a different, and more sinister mission.

[Squatch]

83. And you, friend, are an expert on covert operations...

how, exactly? Any experience to speak of? Or, are you just getting this from Ian Fleming and Tom Clancy novels?

[Frederik]

87. I'm an expert on common sense

and I haven't read anything by the two authors you mention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. Common sense does not apply in spec ops

the stranger of things usually works, blowing common sense out the window, if you know any retired snake eater, talk to him... you'll learn

[Squatch]

97. Once a snake eater, always a snake eater.

Here's what I think happened:

Thes two chaps, in an effort to score some coin, decided to sell some of their arms to locals.

They get dressed up so their own people don't recognize them, but got caught red handed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. the actions of the Briis say otherwise

hot extraction

Bluff photos in news releases or plain out not run them.

How much clearer do you want it?

[Squatch]

109. Media damage control

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. Nah there is something to it

blown up... and what I have to wonder is how many folks will die on all sides because of this?

That is the problem when thngs like this happen.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

127. actually, your response was kind of ridiculous.

ya know, the one about "needing better training". C'mon you were kidding right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. What part of they don't have to look like arabs

are you missing for the type of mission they were carrying out... look this has been done since oh time immemorial. the SS did this too.. we did it during the Vietnam War, most likely their coordination came from British Intel, or maybe even CIA, since we are so chummy on the ground... but they blew it, hence why they ended up in a jail cell... or their initial contacts in the resistance did smell a rat (the shooting with teh cops which is also infiltrated by the resistance... ) What I suspect these boys were engaged in was counter inttelligence operations.

Oh and these are the kind of Opps that seem very far fetched and make most people go, you've got to be kidding me, they don't look the part... you are right, that is why we have carried these kidn of games since oh organized warfare ... and you can bet we are doing the same shit right now also

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

66. There's no point in talking sense.

I've given up on these threads. Unemployed conspiracy theorists have unlimited amounts of time to spend on them, unfortunately.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Well true the ones that make me go WTF is

see the resistance is our own creation (it is, but for other reasons) and the Iraqis are not doing this, it is our people...

Those are the ones that make me go... head meet wall, will be less painful...

I've heard some of the stories from snake eaters, usually with some changed facts to protect themselves, even now they could be prosecuted, and enough on them to make you go... WOW!

For the record snake eaters I know don't trust the gov'ment, never have, as one of them said... look we have seen what they are capable of doing.. but you go on believing in apple pie and the murican way...

[Frederik]

80. Another thing that has been going on

since time immemorial: "false flag" operations.
The SAS did this in Kenya, in Yemen, and elsewhere, in the 1960s, and probably later in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Yes yes they did

but I suspect this was not false flag... they were after a very high priority target in the resistance.

Sorry, but I doubt this was false flag... it does not smell like it, for false flag they actually disguise themselves far better too

[Frederik]

96. If that was the case

why were they firing on the police station from their car? that sounds exactly like the drive-by shootings we have been hearing so much about, which usually target Iraqi police.

For that sort of mission, their disguise was probably good enough. You think their disguise wasn't good enough for false flag, but good enough for infiltration?

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Look we are not going to agree

you are using common sense, I am using knowledge from talking to real operators over the years...

Common sense does not work here, but hey if you want to believe this is false flag so be it, I don't... has all the hallmarks of something else

[Minstrel Boy]

104. You admit false flags exist, just that this doesn't smell like it to you.

That's more than some here will grant.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. Well this smells like somethign else

and yes false flags do exit... part of the tools... it just does not feel like it... way too many things that don't make it look like one.

Usually false flags, if they are captured they are deniable assets, they recued them in a very hot extraction, hence why it does not feel like one.

Oh and by the way many who will not admit that false flags exist also argue that 9.11 was LIHOP or MIHOP, well that by definition is a false flag.

[Minstrel Boy]

119. That is a good point about the deniable assets

of false flags. Usually its the patsies who get pegged, and that's the point of them.

But this incident reminds me of the Michael Meiring case in Davao City, Philippines. US citizen and reputed CIA asset with links to Muslim separatists, blew his leg off when a bomb exploded prematurely in his hotel room, during a terrorist bombing campaign. He was extracted from his hotel room within days by an FBI team and taken to the States. The mayor wants him extradited, but he's being protected, and the story appears untouchable in the US press.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. Yes it does

You know I will run this over with the local snake eater I know...

He has proven to be talkative at times... and one thign I learned years ago is snake eaters are the same type regardless of where they train...

[yodermon]

90. So they don't have to look like Arabs,

They don't have to talk like arabs, they don't have to speak arabic, and it doesn't matter if they speak with an english accent,

yet

You claim that they were engaged in counter-intelligence ops, requiring contact with the resistance.

--OR--

Are you claiming that they:

• spoke perfect Arabic
  
• without any English accent
  
• appearing as they do in the pix
  
• and the resistance members were convinced?
  

--OR--

Are you suggesting that they were not meant to interface directly with resistance members, but were "infiltrating from a distance"? (i.e., "impersonating")?


Please excuse my moment of cognitive dissonance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. I suspect

the both speak fluent arabic

The accent does not matter in counter intelligence, unless they need a deep infiltration in which case these two would not be involved.

They wore the disguises which were enough to make them pass while driving and in passing but not in detail as meeting with their contact required open contact

And the resistance smelled a rat and you had a shoot out... when the dust settled these two guys were in a jail cell and the British military had to mount a hot extraction for whatever info they had... was high value intel...

No you are not suffering cognitive disonance... it is just that what seems like common sense to you, does not work that way in the field, many a times. And I am sure when I meet my friend who is the snake eater or was, he may be able to even tell me what he suspects went south.

I know, I know outside of movies we never see this shit, so it is hard to believe it when it is right in front of us.

[warrens]

33. That's my take, too

Somehow, I doubt these two will be sitting down for a press conference. They may never be seen again. By anyone.

[jackstraw45]

40. in that case, here they are

Care of the AFP:


The two soldiers who were detained by Iraqi police in Basra. The British army said it had rescued two of its soldiers from Shiite militiamen in southern Iraq following fears local police had colluded with the militia amid a mounting breakdown in order.(AFP/Essam Al-Sudani)

[leftchick]

49. you know what is strange?

The BBC was blurring their faces today when showing the photos. Uh Hello! The whole world saw their faces on the AP wire all day yesterday! :eyes:

[FreedomAngel82]

53. Very interesting and very telling

[Minstrel Boy]

54. I saw this message appended to each photo by Reuters on the wire:

ATTENTION EDITORS - THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT REQUESTS THAT THE IDENTIFICATION OF THIS MAN IS NOT REVEALED, EITHER VIA PIXELLATION OF THEIR FACES OR BY NOT PUBLISHING THE PHOTOS

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Operators, when the BBC blurred the photos

I knew it

[Frederik]

70. Beside the point

Of course the insurgency is real. That's why it is of the greatest importance for the US/UK to prevent a unified front of Sunni Arabs, Shia Arabs and Kurds to form against the occupation. The way to do this is to incite inter-sectaran violence by creating distrust and hate between ethnic and religious groups, to get them to fight each other. To do this, you have to kill people and make it look like someone else is doing it.

Inter-sectarian violence creates a pretext for continuing the occupation, as the new government is dependent on US/UK forces for its security and even survival. This prevents the establishment of a strong, independent government which could ask the occupiers to leave and then align itself even more closely with Iran than it already is... the neocons' worst nightmare.

I still don't understand how you can imagine two British chaps would be able to infiltrate Iraqi insurgents. That is just ridiculous. If they are infiltrating the insurgents, and they may well be, they are using people with Middle Eastern backgrounds for that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. And how many of those middle eastern backgrounds

are part of the SAS? We have more of those in our Spec Ops... not them.

Look they did the same thing durign the last occupation (1919-1955), they did the same thing in India during colonial rule, they did the same during WW II... and no, not necessarily the SAS as this is a product of WW II, but British Intelligence has been at these games since they first got colonies...

If you want to believe they are there to incite violence, yes that may be part of it... but they were doing classic counter intelligence work and it blew in their faces.

[alcibiades_mystery]

105. I think you read too much Tom Clancy

These "boys" were certainly engaged in some "bad shit," i.e., killing a bunch of folks in the service of US/UK neo-imperialism. Romanticize it all you want, justify it all you want, call these atrocious weapons "party favors" all you want. These guys are stone cold murderers, not "boys," and there's no way you can say they're at least acting for a "good cause." They may as well be mob hitmen, cosa nostra triggermen. Boys! Just some boys with some party favors! Caught on the wrong end of a balls up. Quelle dommage...Gimme a fucking break.

And, of course, the Viet Cong - or, rather, the military arm of the National Liberation Front - was quite real, and quite brutal, and, yes, quite correct in their assessment of American intentions and the laughable pretention known as the GVN. Also quite real was American neo-imperialism in Southeast Asia. And, yes, also quite real and quite brutal were the American counterinsurgency programs run and exercised by despicable characters liuke these two "boys" here; as Michael Herr once said, "the phoenix was a nightbird, and it flew in and out of Saigon all the time." Indeed.

But our greatest parallel here, of course, comes from fiction - specifically, Graham Greene's prescient The Quiet American, in which Alden Pyle, another "boy," transports - quite literally - party favors (as you like to say), to wit: explosives smuggled in looking like toys - American aid, doncha know? - used for bombings in Saigon disguised as NLF bombings, winning hearts and minds via car bomb. So yes, we know these latter day Alden Pyle's all too well. Of course, Pyle ends up dead under the Y Bridge, Cholon "bad shit" for the "boys," while these two end up only in a wicked debriefing - buck up, old boy! Party favors, you know?

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. Where exactly have I romantized them?

Nowhere.. so save your outrage for somebody else... if the speech bothers you, don't read it

[alcibiades_mystery]

115. No, if the speech bothers you

Contest it.

Your love for these "boys" is transparent enough. And I'm not so much outraged as bemused.

[nadinbrzezinski]

122. Love, for these boys

Unfricking amazing... there is no love lost with these boys, by the way in case you wonder if there is something that truly irritates them is to refer to them as boys... but hey whatever trips your trigger...

Oh and in case you wonder I actually know some of these people. They are professionals, hence why the term boys bothers them. Party favors, how they refer to equipment particularly explosives... oh and grocery list, target list...

No did not get this out of a Clancy novel... by the by, though Clancy has gotten very close at times...

They blew it, whatever they were doing... and because they blew it, more people will die, have died already... but hey whatever trips your trigger and makes you happy, and bemused.

Oh and these boys do things that are highly disgusting, and highly classified... and at times what they do saves lives (Entebbe), at times it does not (I am willing to bet this one)... most of the time it depends on what side you are... whether they are seen as heroes or not... personally they are not heroes, just cold blooded killers doing what a government tells them to do...

But if you think I am romanticizing them, hey the more power to you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

123. OK, I get it

You're all involved in covert operations. Duly noted.

Whatever. :eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. No never said such

I know some people who were snake eaters, retired now, and they did this in a snake pit called Nam

But hey if you want to think that, be my guest

As a writer I talk to these folks...regularly

Oh and I also know team members from other places, who are now retired, again as a writer I have talked to them... (and as a medic I once did work side by side with some of them, cold hard professionals)

But hey, if you think I am romanticizing them, or claiming to be what I am not, be my guest, continue to attack please, and again, if the lingo bothers you, don't read.

[bloom]

32. It's not "major" news when it looks bad for "our" side..

:shrug:

[Blue_Tires]

34. stranger and stranger n/t

[spuddonna]

47. They obviously were just playing dress-up...

It is getting close to Halloween... and I'm sure the anti-tank stuff was just a prop...

This is insane. What the hell are we doing over there?!

[jackstraw45]

52. Whatever it is, the British government threw a MAJOR hissy fit

to get these men back ASAP.

[doublethink]

59. Easy to explain .......

They were posing as undercover Arab insurgents to draw out this one suspected 'rogue police jail' which was actually arming and supporting the 'enemy'. When the two Brits were caught spying, the tanks had to move in and free them ..... the 'rogue police jail' actually helped the other so called 150 inmates escape (they were not actually inmates, but insurgent fighters who came and went in the darkness of night over time, thus the 'sy ops' mission by the British to confirm all of this) These two Brits are actually 'hero's' to those in Iraq who want 'freedom' and 'democracy' and a confirmed suspected 'insurgent enemy hideout' has been eliminated.

This is the official story, and shall be spun that way, nothing to see here, move along. Signed, your puppet masters, the British and American Governments. :crazy:

Yea :sarcasm:

[wtmusic]

73. no explanation for the anti-tank weapons nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Yes, party favor, to gain trust

[muriel_volestrangler]

82. What is a 'party favor'?

Or a 'party flavor', for that matter? You've used both phrases several times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. To quote snake eaters

there are things you bring to prove you are on good terms, things that are hard to get. For the Nam Era guys it meant C-4... for these guys, your AT missile...

[NNN0LHI]

95. They were wearing wigs

That may work from a distance but its not going to work when one is trying to gain trust and is being looked over at close range and probably frisked. That "trying to make friends with the insurgents" scenario doesn't wash.

Don

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. in arab culture up close you don't dress up

and you also don't offer your left hand... they needed to pass to get where they were, and then something went sour. If they were just trying to make some coin, the brits would not have done a hot extraction, nor would they be asking for faces to be blurred or photos not run, nor would they be saying they were on official business. The actions of the british government has all but told you what they were doing, but people just refuse to even admit this is possible...

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

And that is all I can do at this point...

[NNN0LHI]

106. Bang your head all you want. Your infiltration theory is still silly

These guys weren't trying to infiltrate anything. They were getting ready to do something from a distance. But it went all wrong so they began killing Iraqi police instead because they knew they wouldn't be able to pass a close eye ball inspection by them. If they knew they couldn't fool the police what makes you think they could fool insurgents?

Don

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. ok.. explain the hot extraction then

[sadiesworld]

116. His/her theory is about the only thing that DOES

explain the "hot extraction". I'd say the British government would go to extraordinary lengths to cover this up.

[Minstrel Boy]

120. This incident reminds me of the Michael Meiring

case in Davao City, Philippines. US citizen and reputed CIA asset with links to Muslim separatists, blew his leg off when a bomb exploded prematurely in his hotel room, during a terrorist bombing campaign. He was extracted from his hotel room within days by an FBI team and taken to the States. The mayor wants him extradited, but he's being protected, and the story appears untouchable in the US press.

Both incidents saw hot extraction of assets who had fallen into the hands of allies.

[MADem]

151. They wanted to kill someone, as I said above

The target was someone who travels in an armoured vehicle.

You can even get them used, ya know... http://www.worldwidearmor.com/notice.html

[doublethink]

101. Yea I just thought of that too ......

blows a hole in my story ... hmmmmmmm, obviously they couldn't meet face to face with the insurgents ... the Brits undercover attire was only meant to be used from afar (thus the anti-tank weapon) ..... shit I'll get back to you on this ... signed Karl Rove.

[watrwefitinfor]

61. If the Brits are doing this in the south

WTF do you suppose Americans are doing elsewhere?

Wat

[leftofthedial]

62. mr bushturd, your parrot is dead

"No it's not!"

Is too! It's dead as a doornail.

"It's only sleeping."

Brits are such masters of humor.

[Roy]

65. Cheney did say foreign fighters were causing all the problems

in Iraq didn't he?

[NNN0LHI]

78. No wonder our soldiers are unable to tell friends from enemy

Very understandable now.

Don

[cantstandbush]

93. Isn't this what is called a "black bag job?" Our intel poses as the enemy

performs some deadly attack against their own troops (ours) and blames the Arabs for it so that we can further justify our war in Iraq? I have heard of this being done all over the mid-east. Even Israel has been caught at performing some acts for which the Palestinians get blamed for. The US seems to do this all over the world so why would the UK be any different?

[nguoihue]

140. spooks

Nothing new, similar to action in 'Nam. CIA ops in Phoenix had folks dress up as VC, assassinate village officials and any witnesses and then blame it on the enemy.

[Amonester]

150. Who else did it too? huh... Adolf Hitler?? Yeah, sort of...

Attack on Gleiwitz radio station

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The Gleiwitz incident was a staged attack against a German radio station in Gleiwitz (nowadays Gliwice) on the night of August 31, 1939 . There were other staged Polish-German border incidents (such as house torching in the Polish Corridor) and spurious propaganda output. Together the Nazis claimed these incidents as the pretext for operation Fall Weiss, the invasion of Poland the following day.

The border incidents were collectively dubbed 'Operation Himmler'.

The Gleiwitz incident was organised by Alfred Naujocks under orders from Reinhard Heydrich and accompanied by Heinrich Müller, the chief of Gestapo (according to the sworn affidavit of Naujocks at Nuremberg Trials). Naujocks stated that a small group seized the station and a message was broadcast that urged the Poles resident in Silesia to strike against Germans. After receiving a lethal injection Franciszek Honiok, a German Silesian known for sympathizing with the Poles and arrested the previous day by the gestapo, was given gunshot wounds and left dead at the scene of the incident as evidence that he had been killed while attacking. This was presented as proof of the attack to the invited press and police officials.

~cont'd~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Gleiwitz_radio_station

Guess the Axis Of Ev~o~il must be proud to compare themselves with these War Criminals. I heard they all wanted the poisonous liquid tha't gonna kill us all, if nobody cares educating the masses about this species' own demise in the making...

:cry:

http://www.costofwar.com/
http://icasualties.org/oif

[sadiesworld]

113. And it just so happens that this occurred in Basra?

Would this be the same Basra where the neo-cons tell us that Iran is backing a Shia insurgency?!?!

Sure. Nothing to see here.

[progressivebydesign]

152. That is a scary, yet plausible conclusion.

Bush has to know about this.. because Blair doesn't go to the bathroom without Bush's knowledge. Our countries are doing something right now that seems very, very, ugly. Bush isn't Poppy's son for nothing... Friendly old Poppy is neck deep in CIA shit still. This stuff is frightening. Who are the real insurgents and how much of this is US?

[morgan2]

117. the simple explanation

The US and UK need an insurgancy to justify their presence in Iraq. They don't want to leave Iraq because they want the oil. Therefor no insurgancy, no oil.

[UpInArms]

118. related: British "Undercover Soldiers" Caught driving Booby Trapped Car

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050920&articleId=972

The following Reuters report raises some disturbing questions.

Why were undercover British soldiers wearing traditional Arab headscarves firing at Iraqi police?

The incident took place just prior to a major religious event in Basra.

The report suggests that the police thought the British soldiers looked "suspicious". What was the nature of their mission?

Occupation forces are supposesd to be collaborating with Iraqi authorities. Why did Britsh Forces have to storm the prison using tanks and armoured vehicles to liberate the British undercover agents?

"British forces used up to 10 tanks " supported by helicopters " to smash through the walls of the jail and free the two British servicemen."

Was there concern that the British "soldiers" who were being held by the Iraqi National Guard would be obliged to reveal the nature and objective of their undercover mission?

A report of Al Jazeera TV, which preceeded the raid on the prison, suggests that the British undercover soldiers were driving a booby trapped car loaded with ammunition. The Al Jazeera report (see below) also suggests that the riots directed against British military presence were motivated because the British undercover soldiers were planning to explode the booby trapped car in the centre of Basra:.


We have with us on the telephone from Baghdad Fattah al-Shaykh, member of the Iraqi National Assembly. What are the details of and the facts surrounding this incident?

In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate. There have been continuous provocative acts since the day before yesterday by the British forces against the peaceful sons of Basra. There have been indiscriminate arrests, the most recent of which was the arrest of Shaykh Ahmad al-Farqusi and two Basra citizens on the pretext that they had carried out terrorist operations to kill US soldiers. This is a baseless claim. This was confirmed to us by the second secretary at the British Embassy in Baghdad, when we met with him a short while ago. He said that there is evidence on this. We say: You should come up with this evidence or forget about this issue. If you really want to look for truth, then we should resort to the Iraqi justice away from the British provocations against the sons of Basra, particularly what happened today when the sons of Basra caught two non-Iraqis, who seem to be Britons and were in a car of the Cressida type. It was a booby-trapped car laden with ammunition and was meant to explode in the centre of the city of Basra in the popular market. However, the sons of the city of Basra arrested them. They then fired at the people there and killed some of them. The two arrested persons are now at the Intelligence Department in Basra, and they were held by the National Guard force, but the British occupation forces are still surrounding this department in an attempt to absolve them of the crime.

...more...

[Team44Car]

136. was the car a booby trap, a car bomb, wired to go off?

[Guy_Montag]

126. Spec ops in disguise

Is it so unlikely that spec ops travel around do so in local dress, rather than uniforms. I'm not talking about full on disguises, but trying to avoid attracting attention. To me it's common sense, you're not going to fool anyone who gets close, but if you're driving to or from a covert op, one that doesn't involve violence, surely you would do so as unobtrusively as possible.

As for the anti-tank missile, well as far as we know do insurgents use anti-tank missiles? Only RPG7s, but correct me if I'm wrong. So if travelling by car, and you had the option of an anti-tank weapon, would you take it or not? It won't slow you down & doesn't eat anything. I notice that one looks pretty small too, 18-24" long, 4" diameter (using the SW radio for scale). Can anyone identify it? I don't know enough, but looks smaller than a LAW or Milan & therefore not much good against armour, but potentially some use against lighter vehicles.

btw. I'm no expert, but pics of LAWS & Milans here

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/gulf2/Weapon.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. darn intended for the end, follow theese links

we are seeing a shadow war on top of the regular one... hmm what does this remind me off? Oh yes, the 1920s and 30s in Iraq or Vietnam

follow these links, for it looks like a shadow war... on top of the hot one

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/international/middlee...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169841,00.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5B9D68F9-E629-41...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1573933,00....

and in particular pay attention to Juan Cole

http://www.juancole.com/

[Tower]

138. This sounds like it might be an Iraq version of Operation Phoenix.

You know- an assassination program. Given the extreme unpopularity of western forces, I can imagine they might want to do their deeds disguised as natives. Maybe even sow discontent between rival factions within the insurgency.

Whatever it is, it's extremely shady and it certainly makes the whole neocon "spreading democracy" bullshit sound even more ridiculous than usual.

[stickdog]

139. Remember the UN bombing all those months ago? The dozens

of international journalists and Iraqi leaders who have been assassinated by "insurgents" and "Zarqawi"? The saga of Nick Berg?

Care to revisit any of these, coincidence theorists?

All of these actions fit the neocons' self-proclaimed agenda of "creative destruction" a little too close for comfort. Wouldn't you agree?

[NNN0LHI]

141. Anyone with a lick of sense knows who "Zarqawi" really is now n/t

[KG]

142. heh. and i recall being called names for positing that the 7/7 bombings

might possibly be a false flag operation. :eyes:

[KG]

143. heh. and i recall being called names for positing that the 7/7 bombings

might possibly be a false flag operation. :eyes:

[chat_noir]

144. False flag over London

False flag over London
By John Leonard

July 8, 2005—Yesterday we saw a classic false flag attack in London, organized by western secret services to distract attention from the deepening political troubles of Bush and Blair, and perhaps even to create the pretext for war on Iran. Of course, Bush and his poll ratings have been sinking under scandals and rumblings of impeachment. Blair too has been badly hurt by the Downing Street memo.

For giving the lowdown on the London underground, I was roundly rebuked today, accused of disgracing the dead. Yet I was the one speaking out to avenge their honor, defending their memory from the bloodstain of abuse by the vultures of war. But no, the shocked sheeple flocked to march in ever tighter lockstep for their Vaterland, with each new Reichstag Firemeisterwerk casting a stronger spell. . . .

The G-8 conference was an ideal, high-profile venue to mobilize the sympathy of world leaders behind their flagging amateur B&B show. Today's Guy Fawkeses, home-team self-terrorists in the heart of empire, thumbed their noses at mortal fools while they played their favorite base-eleven numerology game, on this 7/7 date—following on Madrid 3/11 and New York 9/11, with its Flights 11 and 77.
Cui bono. Wall Street closed on an uptick.

So how can I be so sure? The war-profiteer clique are not all that inventive. False terror is the only trick they know. If they had any idea of governance or statecraft, they wouldn't need to stoop to these toxic tactics.

One of the classic trademarks of false flag terror was on display yesterday: the "previously unknown" organization posting anonymously on a website. Of course, western intelligence, using Echelon and such tools, could track any web posting back to its source. If it wanted to.

"Real" terrorists are known groups that make concrete demands. They are an endangered species, if not extinct.

Fake terrorists—covert psy-war units of western intelligence—always invent a name of an "unknown" group. They have to do this, of course. If they claimed, say, that the PLO did it, the accused would energetically deny it, spoiling the show. So they use fictitious identities, which they can mold to suit the target of convenience.
Yesterday's fiction was a "secret" group affiliated—oh how wonderfully convenient—with Al Qaeda and Al Zarqawi. Yet the state-owned BBC itself has established that Al Qaeda does not even exist, in its documentary film, "The Terror Myth." And just this week Dahr Jamail wrote of his trip to the town of Zarqa, on the trail of the fabled Zarqawi. The man's family believe he died years ago—no recent photos exist. Certain is only that the mythical Zarqawi's base of operations always pops up wherever the Americans want to attack—Fallujah, Samarra, where do you want to go tomorrow?


Some other dead giveaway signs:

· Scotland Yard warned Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu half an hour beforehand not to go to the bomb site, according to an AP wire from Jerusalem (a slip that was subsequently denied of course, but it was still up at Al Jazeera).

· An MSNBC translator says an error in a verse from the Quran in a statement by the "unknown" group couldn't have been made by Al Qaeda, and he thinks it's phony. Blair's proofreaders are falling down on their dossiers again . . . they ought to be belted or suspended.

· Train bombings like London 7/7and Madrid 3/11 are a speciality of NATO psy-war units. The expert on this since 1978 has been Webster Tarpley, who shows in his latest book, 9/11 Synthetic Terror, how the bombing of Bologna Stazione Centrale in 1980 by the so-called Red Brigades is of one cloth with the Madrid bombings. The supposed "communist terrorist" Red Brigades were phonies, a patsy outfit created by Lodge P2, the neofascist shadow government with Italy in its grip. The Madrid train bombing suspects were police agents, also run by a neo-fascist falange: as Tarpley notes, one suspect admitted he worked for the old guard, the Guardia Civil, Unidad Central Operativa.

Another possible motive, says Tarpley, is that the war party want to push Bush into Iran, but America has no stomach for it. They need another 9/11 so they can occupy both the Iraqi and Iranian oil fields, and hold the world, all of us, to ransom.

War and rumors of war—reports of covert American commando operations against targets inside Iran have prepared the ground for war. A storm of anti-American sentiment was aroused, sweeping the elections against the reformers in favor of radical dark horse candidate Mahmoud Ahmadinejad—in turn paving the way to mobilize a war coalition against Iran. Failing that, he may replace Saddam as symbol of vilification while keeping Iran shackled by backward fundamentalism.

Tarpley's book has a chapter named "Islamic Fundamentalism: Fostered by U. S. Foreign Policy." It's a policy going back to the 19th century British Arab Bureau, crown purveyors of divide and conquer tactics, who hit on xenophobic fundamentalism as the tool to make the Arabs impossible partners for alliances with any of Britain's rivals.

"Poster boy" Osama bin Laden is only the latest product of this policy. Alternative writers in the West are quick to point out the demagogic effect his image has on Western publics. Few of them realize the deeply cynical obverse of the covert strategy: feeding the Arabs on the poison pills of false hopes in a terrorist hero.

Yet Arab admiration for Osama has remained platonic. Anthropologists long ago noted the Arab tendency to vent feelings in words rather than actions. Many Muslims felt bound to fight in Afghanistan against the atheist Soviet occupier, but the BBC's Terror Myth documentary recounts how bin Laden and Zawahiri utterly failed to mobilize real Arabs to the way of terrorism against innocent citizens. Tarpley adduces evidence that Zawahiri is probably bin Laden's handler from MI-6. Enter now the shadowy world of the alphabet agencies and their covert clients, the patsies and moles, who live a tunnel life, like the trains of London they have fed on this time.

O lovers of peace and opponents of war: never shall you see an end of calamities instigated by the war party, until the people see through the false flag trick. It is not in marching that wars are stopped, but by understanding.

We are working to bring out a new book that gives depth of historical background to this picture: The Nazi Hydra in America, currently online. It shows how the 1933 Reichstag fire, that most infamous false flag operation which catapulted the Bush-Harriman protégé, little Adolf Hitler, to power, was followed in 1934 by an attempted military putsch against FDR, launched by the Morgan interests—an episode that has been expunged from all schoolbooks. Yet if it had succeeded, with America and Germany both under Nazi control, the New World Fascist Order would have come into being 70 years ago.

They do not give up. They have time, money, and no project more captivating. They've been preparing the final putsch for at least a century, if not more.
Nor were they defeated in 1945. The postwar CIA and NSA are a Phoenix created from the ashes of Nazi assets. The enemy is within the gates.

Read, understand, and realize how bitter and lasting is the struggle against the corporatist hydra, which now lets show the true features behind that leering smiley face, as it grasps again for absolute world power.

John Leonard is the publisher of Webster Griffin Tarpley's "9/11 Synthetic Terror." It may be purchased from his website, Progressive Press. He also was editor and co-author of The War on Freedom (2002), the first exposé of 9/11 published in the United States.



http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/070805Leonard/070805leonard.html


I hadn't heard the term "false flag", therefore, Googled it, and found this article.

Things that make you go "hmmmmm"

[jmatthan]

145. Enemy Combatants!

http://jmpolitics.blogspot.com/2005/09/enemy-combatants.html