My response to SBC about outsourcing American jobs

[AllyCat]

SBC just sent me a survey trying to get my opinions on their technical support I'd had to use (every time I get rid of their spyware garbage, I can't connect to the internet after I turn off my CPU).

They wanted to know what one thing would make their internet services better. I told them they could make it better by moving their technical support back to the United States where it belongs and employ American workers.

Additionally, I told them they haven't fooled any of us when the nice man with the Indian accent helping me says his name is "Martin".

[Mutley]

1. Good reply!

Mine was "Susie". She was very nice but we couldn't understand each other and we both got frustrated.

[CBGLuthier]

2. You know, I keep hearing the same thing about the Indians

And it is getting old.

Yes I am against outsourcing.

But I have dealt with people in India and I have NEVER had a hard time understanding them. They all speak perfect, if slightly accented english.

Yet time and again someone will come into my computer store saying they can't understand "those people",

And I find the assumption they are using fake names to be borderline racist.

[CrispyQ]

3. I have had good & bad experiences

and I don't always assume they are in India. Hell, when I was in Houston one summer, as a kid, I couldn't understand anyone!

[AllyCat]

5. Okay, maybe they aren't fake names. How come none of the

people who ever help me has a traditional Indian name? Or any other traditional name from any other country for that matter? Just asking. I call these people frequently as I have many problems with their DSL service (not the technical support--the actual DSL service itself). I've yet to hear someone named Belisma or Gunther or Nigel or Martina or (insert name here). It's always something easy for the listener to pick up on the other end of the phone. Heck, they probably do this with the NON-OUTSOURCED jobs too. "Your name is Rumplestiltskin? Not anymore. Now it's Jenny."

I can understand them fine. I never said I had trouble understanding their accent and I find them all to be helpful, pleasant, and well-speaking. My problem is with the outsourcing of American jobs, which we all know SBC and other companies do. I don't need to listen to their accents to know this is going on. It's in the news on a regular basis.

My main beef is to bring the jobs back to American workers. Many of these jobs are a real shot in the arm for many of the folks who live in India and other countries. But they belong here.

I'm sorry if that sounded racist and I did not intend it to be. Clearly I need to look at that issue more clearly. I'm frustrated about the American jobs we are losing.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Most likely people are drawing from their memory of the

60 minutes report of a couple of years ago that was repeated a number of times. The indian employees shown on that broadcast all adopted western names and accents, no bones were made about it.

[Justyce]

7. The company I work for started

recently outsourcing to India. The Indians working for our company speak English a lot better than I speak their language, but I sure wouldn't go as far as calling it "perfect English" -- we have a very difficult time communicating with tons of mix-ups, really making it more trouble than it's worth in terms of whatever extra profits the company is scraping out of the deal in my opinion. I've been looking around for another company to switch to, but there are so many in the field I'm in that are outsourcing, it's hard to find one that doesn't. Our everyday slang alone really seems to throw them for a loop -- well, good example there, "throw them for a loop" would have created havoc.... lol

[MalibuChloe]

9. they ARE fake names

This isn't up for debate. It's not an assumption - it's common practice. It's just a way of making the American caller think the company didn't do what it did do - outsource American jobs to cheaper labor in another country.

[LoZoccolo]

12. Uh, they do use fake names.

There's a ton of articles about outsourcing and how they try to convince the people calling that they're not outsourced.

And if the people coming into your store could understand those people, why would they lie about it?

[CBGLuthier]

20. Because a lot of them are ignorant white people

who distrust all foreigners.

I am sure everybody's experiences are differnet but I still sense a lot of thinly veiled racism from people talking about Indian support.

Oh and maybe the companies you guys call use fake names but the folks I talk to use real sounding names and don't even try to disguise the fact they are in India. In fact I have had some very good conversations about their country while we wait for processes to complete. They seem surprised I am interested so I would assume most of their calls are from people who don't care about other countries.

[Selatius]

4. Hey, CBC just wants to make money

This is about providing you a service not because they think you deserve it but because they are doing it just to make money. For example, those Fortune 500 companies would not have gotten to where they are if they were fueled by charity and the innate desire to do good but to turn a profit and make a return for the investors, the owners of the means of production.

You see, in our world, the absolute lowest common denominator is that goods and services are allocated to people according to ability to pay, not according to need. This is why, for instance, you have a ton of mcmansions in the Hamptons--each one alone can house several families--that are empty most of the year because "it's only the summer home," while you have hundreds of thousands who are without homes in America.

The first social programs in the US were established with this realization in order to try to address the situation, to try to make capitalism "more humane."

This entire post is an exercise in irony. I'm not defending this at all, just calling it how I see it.

[Coyote_Bandit]

8. I always ask

tech support and customer service people where they are located. Sometimes the answers are surprising.

And, yes, I found the HP tech support folks I talked to in New Delhi very difficult to understand. And it was not because they could not speak English - indeed, they had reasonable command of the language. It was a combination of a heavy accent and a poor phone connection. I had occasion to speak with them multiple times over a two year period and the phone connection was always bad (snap, crackle, pop with lots of loud white noise and static). Of course, I must add that the Indian tech support folks I have talked to have always been very polite. Can't say the same for we Americans.

Edit for spelling

[MalibuChloe]

10. they can usually speak pretty well, but...

they are reading from a script and often repeat the same lines over and over when they don't know how to fix the problem. It can be frustrating.

[Autumn Colors]

13. And when they won't answer that question

you can safely assume they're not in the USA and won't answer because of the potential backlash.

By the way, I'm a self-employed medical transcriptionist who has been losing accounts to companies who have an "office" (or just one sales rep) in the USA and all of the dictation goes to med students in India. They work for slave wages that I can't compete with, even as a sole proprietor with no employees and no middle man to pay!

It's so wonderful of our gov't to pass such a thorough "Patient Privacy Act" which has loopholes that allow everyone's medical records and private information to be sent overseas to countries that have no similar laws. :sarcasm:

Sorry ... I'm very bitter that even with very little overhead to pay, I'm struggling to make a living because of this.

[Coyote_Bandit]

15. I understand your bitterness

I have ten years of college including a bachelors and three graduate degrees. I have now been unemployed for nearly three years. I'm thinking of going to trade school in another country and using that as a tool to facilitate immigration. And then burning my diplomas. I love this country but I hate *everything* I see happening here.

[Autumn Colors]

29. The only thing keeping me from leaving the USA

is that my husband won't leave, so I'd have to divorce him (which I really don't want to do) and would have to force the sale of our house in order to get my share of the money.

Besides that, I'm outta here... :\

[Maple]

11. They anglicize their names, or just pick one

because English speakers often can't pronounce their real names.

A standard practice for immigrants in America from it's earliest days....for Germans, Hungarians, Poles...and all the other groups.

Because for all you know...the person you were talking to is living in Denver.

[Maple]

14. "Racism--It's chic again."

to quote another DUer.

[area51]

16. "...moving their technical support back to the United States...."

AllyCat said:

"I told {SBC} they could make it better by moving their technical support back to the United States where it belongs and employ American workers."

Hear, hear! If the nazi party wants to run their BS wars, pave streets, have police & fire depts., they'd better make sure jobs go to Americans who will actually pay into the tax system here. Other countries can create their own jobs.

[shance]

17. What's a good alternative if any, to using SBC?

n/t

[Maple]

18. So do Americans refuse to work for foreign firms in the US?

Because those foreign firms are outsourcing to you...and you don't get the 5 weeks holidays they do in Europe.

And because of that...people should be rude to you, and tell you to create your own damn jobs?

Hmmmmm

[AllyCat]

19. I've not been rude to the people on the phone. They are trying to

make a living just like anyone else. My problem is with corporate America who outsources jobs, doesn't follow labor laws, and can buck any and all environmental protections so they can keep their prices exactly the same and their CEOs make more cash.

That's unethical. If I lived in India which is largely impoverished, I'd take the job too. I don't blame the people for taking the jobs. I blame SBC for offering them elsewhere and treating their workers like crap.

[Maple]

21. Other firms outsource to America

I doubt Americans complain about that.

PS. India is not largely impoverished. Their middle class is larger than the entire population of the US, and they don't treat their workers like crap.

[AllyCat]

22. India has a huge group of lower class citizens

I'm certain it is equal or greater than the US population of the same class. Here is one example of how Indian companies treat their workers like crap:

http://www.pulitzer.org/year/1998/investigative-reporting/works/cont/5.html

What will we do with all those single-hulled tankers now that they are outlawed...they go to Alang to the breakers.

[Maple]

23. So does the US

but Americans still don't complain about foreign companies in the US hiring American citizens.

And dangerous poorly paid work is something the US still has within it's own borders.

[AllyCat]

24. Foreign companies setting up shop here are hardly the norm.

Many businesses need offices in foreign lands. I'm not criticizing those who set up business in other countries. What I find objectionable is that many of these companies just look for a place that they can save money by side-stepping labor laws, safety restrictions, environmental restrictions, dump pensions for American workers, and leave whole towns ruined.

These are unethical practices. In the US, those of us who pay attention object to American AND foreign companies who have OBJECTIONABLE and UNETHICAL business practices (Tyson food strike, SBC worker strike, not supporting Wal-Mart, etc. etc.). It doesn't matter if they are foreign-owned or not.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree Maple. You clearly see nothing wrong with what is happening in India and I would imagine you see nothing wrong with the way workers are treated in China, Macau, Hong Kong, or basicaly anywhere in the Pacific Rim or South and Central America either. And you think I am a racist. That's your opinion. I disagree.

[Maple]

26. Just as normal as the reverse

Perhaps you are unaware of how many foreign countries are in the US.

And of course there are dangerous and badly paid jobs in all countries...always have been. If you stop the practice in India or China, all those people starve. Left on their own, they gradually straighten out their own working conditions...just like Americans did. Not everyone is on the same timeline you know. Triangle Shirt factories still exist.

China has just entered the Industrial Age recently. America did a couple of centuries ago. Naturally there will be a difference.

Had you read Friedman's book 'the world is flat' you'd know about the working and living conditions provided for the tech support, telemarketing and various other 'outsourced' jobs....they are terrific. That is the future, but it takes awhile in a country of over a billion people, starting from scratch, and after colonialism.

I see nothing wrong with it, no. India and China are booming and very pleased, and moving forward at a great rate.

This is just protectionism disguising itself as brotherly love.

[AllyCat]

27. Wrong.

If the US went through those kind of horrible times as we industrialized, we, of all people, should know not to allow it again, much less actively support it in another country. Whether we do it, or someone else does it, here and now, or centuries ago, doesn't make it right.

[Maple]

28. Right I'm afraid

because China and India don't belong to you, and it's up to them to determine their own future.

[AllyCat]

30. Then back to one of my original arguments...

...why are American companies who know full well the impact of our development into industrialization, supporting policies that allow that kind of treatment of workers and the environment? Oh, because they are not ethical and don't care about human rights, that's why. And THAT is the issue with outsourcing in many if not most cases. It is unethical for our companies to invest in their economies, not to mention moving our jobs there and turning a blind eye to the way other countries treat the workers in AMERICAN plants.

[Booster]

25. I received that survey also, and my answer was the same: "Bring

the jobs back to America so that I can understand the person on the phone and they can actually understand me. It is extremely frustrating to get an answer re: computer sign-on, etc., when I don't know a whole lot about computers and they don't understand what the hell I'm asking. The company isn't saving any money when their reps have to spend 3 times as much time answering/helping with a very simple problem that could be solved easily if we both spoke the same language.