This is SERIOUSLY BUGGING me, so here goes:

[smartvoter]

We all know there were strange statistical anomalies in the 2004 election. Many of these were so improbable they are essentially impossible. And those familiar with technology understand that the strange vote swaps and vote loading stories that were reported by local journalists would exist in all machines running the same software versions -- it just happened to show up in a few places where corrupted machines were dropped into precincts with populations too small to account for the vote results.

To date, this has all been dismissed as conspiracy, even though you don't need a big conspiracy to flip electronic votes, and the dismissals of highly credentialed academics have been rooted in the idea of "never in America," which is to say: "They wouldn't go THAT far."

Even as we see these guys are caught in their own web right now, I think none of it really matters matter if the voting isn't secure.

With people dead on our own streets, arrests happening today inside the WH regarding corruption, Rove running the relief efforts to trade contracts for support, doesn't this provide an opening to revisit the voting issue?

Don't the actions the public can see today, and strongly disapproves of, weaken arguments that they wouldn't go that far? Can't we figure out how to tie this behavior to the elections just enough to get safeguards in place?

I would think, if the shoes were on the other feet, that they would already be spinning this to appeal to a public ashamed of what they are seeing. "The public didn't vote for them," they would say. "These aren't our leaders." I can hear it as clearly as the clacking of my keyboard as I write this.

What do you think? Is there an opportunity to get some integrity back into the system?


Edit: typos

[existentialist]

1. seriously bugging at least half of DU I would say

I don't know the answers, I'm not ready to really even state anything coherent on the subject. But you are not alone in your hopes and fears.

"Hope and fear are vision."
William Blake

[smartvoter]

9. It has been a frustrating nut to crack. nt

[truedelphi]

2. Great Topic Smartvoter

Perhaps part of the reason that Dems in office cannot go there
and clearly state
"These aren't the leaders. The public didn't vote for them" is that they have involvements themselves with the twisted voting system.

A staffer at Kerry's office in Massachusetts told me that one of the reasons that Kerry conceded was that the Kerry campaign knew that exit polls and vote results didn't match -they had already experienced anomalies in Kerry's fight against Dean. (According to Bev Harris, wherever there was no paper trail Kerry beat Dean, even if the exit polls said he woldn't, and wherever there WERE paper trails, Kerry did not beat Dean but the vote tally corresponded with the exit polls.

Now who set this up I don't know - we do know though that kerry was the preferred candidate to run against.

[tmooses]

3. From what I've read and heard lately, there is a trapdoor in the

Diebold and the like voting software that would allow vote manipulation. To prove that there was vote fraud (hacked) is another story entirely. The Bush people have learned their lesson well from the Gambino's and Genovese's. You never let anyone know why or for whom you are doing any activity. IMO it's more worthwhile to work on voting accountability for the upcoming elections.

[smartvoter]

4. That's what I mean. Create enough of a stir to get safeguards. We

can't undo the election at this point.

[electron_blue]

5. Yes, this is vital

As you point out, even if they haven't hacked the system, if enough citizens are convinced they stole it, they may rebel, revolt, and generally not cooperate with the government in place. This goes both ways - consider that the Dem's may 'win' next time. What would happen if a really large segment of the Rep's believed the Dems stole the elections?

It is really in everyone's best interest that we have a topnotch ballot counting method.

At first, I was in the camp of "they wouldn't go that far". Now I can't believe I was ever so naive.

[smartvoter]

6. "... can't believe I was ever so naive." I think a huge chunk of the

country shares those sentiments right now.

Great post.

[petgoat]

13. if enough citizens are convinced they stole it, they may rebel, revolt,

Or they might just give up to cynicism ansd not vote at all.

"All politicians are crooks" is a lazy answer that sounds sophisticated
to some--most dangerously the young.

[Pathwalker]

7. "Computerized Voting Belongs in Boston Harbor"

It's my newest hand-made bumper sticker, and it's getting a LOT of thumbs-up!

[smartvoter]

8. What an event that would be to stage... Great sticker! nt

[ClayZ]

10. Brilliant... maybe rubber duckies with "ELECTION FRAUD"

Written on them.... DUMP THEM OVER and have one with a PRIZE attached to it.

Sell them all over the country to raise funds for IMPEACHMENT.




QUACK QUACK... maybe it would get some press coverage.

[smartvoter]

11. You know what, it probably would. VR or some other organized

group could do it... It would be awesome...

[understandinglife]

12. "Not one line of software code between a voter and a valid election"

To quote myself.


Peace.

[renate]

16. I like that one

VERY VERY MUCH

:thumbsup:

[troubleinwinter]

26. And...

Voter verified paper ballots....

To quote Andy Stephenson: “To me, my ballot is the most sacred sacrament of the secular religion we call Democracy… With proper auditing and truly random recounts, optical scans are the safest and most accurate way to count an election.”

[farmbo]

14. Unfortunately, the DNC has already given Rove a free pass on this.

The Donna Brazile report scolded the GOP for some minor "suppression" but absolutely whitewashed the issue of fraud in the vote counting.

:grr:

[autorank]

15. Great post. YES, but WE have to do it, the people...leaders are useless

now unless we grow some new ones.

The Carter Baker Commission doesn't do much of anything other than provide some nice academic - government issue reports and excuses for th odious national ID card.

HERE'S THE SIMPLE SOLUTION: All paper ballots, no machines of any kind. Hand counted with all the witnesses who want to watch. Public announcements at each precinct so central tabulation is irrelevant -- we can all add the votes up.

It's our country. We can do it.

This is perfectly save, cheap, and SOLVES ALL PROBLEMS OF VOTING IMMEDIATELY.

Access to voting is another issue and an important one but look at this. I read it somewhere else, thought it made sense, and it took me a minute to type it up.

"What Commissions? I don't need not stinkin' Commissions."

BYE BYE Plutocrats, Hello Democrats!

Recommended.

[stickdog]

17. This is job ONE, IMHO.

Getting more independent voices in the media is job two.

[blm]

21. ABSOLUTELY....and people are more willing to listen now than ever before.

.

[CantGetFooledAgain]

18. Election fraud must become "election security"!

The fact is that any information system that is insecure is vulnerable to attacks from anywhere. The 2006 election could theoretically be compromised by anyone: Republicans, Democrats, foreign intelligence, foreign terrorists, domestic terrorists, the CIA, anyone!

This mutual insecurity should be sufficient to make this an issue for everyone to get behind. Freepers should be just as outraged as DUers that our votes are being collected and tallied using such an insecure architecture. In theory, they are in as much danger as we are of not having their votes counted.

My point is that this need not be a partisan issue. There should be enough general public support to throw out the machines and go to paper ballots for the 2006 election as a matter of national security.

I guess that I'm frustrated as hell that there isn't a widely supported, highly visible, non-partisan movement at this point to make our elections secure! I can understand that those with the keys to the backdoors would remain silent, but do they really have the power to shut everyone else up?

[annabanana]

19. VERY good! "Election Security"

Secure our nation from foreign hackers!!

excellent way to put it.. I will use it from now on!

(post as a new thread, repeat often!)

[smartvoter]

27. You are absolutely right. I am using this from now on. nt

[frictionlessO]

20. Whats seriously messed up is that a small chunk of DU still thinks it was

a fair election.

No DU'er who has been here longer than a month and spends more than 3 hours a week here should believe such absolute monkey crap.

There is nothing these power hungry pythons would not do in order to complete their vision of the Theocratic Kleptocracy.

There is an oppurtunity here and Ive seen it happen a half dozen times withmy own two eyes over the last 3 weeks or so. All it takes is one card coming out from under that house and people quickly move on to other areas. Katrina--> Iraq--> Election Fraud--> 9/11 --> Selection Fraud. Lots of anti labor, job less, SS, Medicare, medicaid, bankruptcy, & energy issues to further enhance the image of the bushevik cultist regime. Never mind Abu Ghraib, Plamegate and Bin Laden...

All that can and should be used as fodder for the antidote to the kool aid, whenever we see a citizen wavering with the kool aid wearing off and at a weak moment, we should be in there with the truth and that truth starts and ends with our election process or lack there of.

[smartvoter]

28. Yes. I don't get it. To an extent, I can see why they

would maybe dismiss the work of people like TIA early on because those who are unfamiliar with statistics would write it off as "damned lies and statistics," but after all the studies and academics and the Conyers work and on and on and on and on AND ON, it is simply not fathomable to me that anyone would question it.

I did not think it was stolen right away. But a couple of days later, when I could see with my own eyes mathematically impossible results in battleground states (and I don't necessarily mean exit polls -- I mean vote loading, more votes than voters, more votes for obscure down-ballot candidates, low Kerry votes correlating to bizarrely inflated third-party votes, etc.), I knew it was fraud -- the errors all worked for one candidate.

But the part that really slayed me regarding people still refusing to see what happened is that Ohio broke its own recount laws. Innocent people do not hide their tracks.

Today, with all the studies and an obscene pile of evidence, how anyone can dismiss it completely escapes me.

At the very least, they should be upset that they can't disprove the claims. This alone is an argument for safeguards.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

22. I would love a poll done state by state asking people who they voted for.

Have Zogby do it.

[Ikonoklast]

24. The results would be interesting

Do you think that, even if totally secret, anyone except the mentally defective or religious extremist would own up to having voted for * ? I wouldn't want anyone to know that I had made such a colossal blunder in judgment. People would lie about who they voted for so they could distance themselves from the train wreck they helped to create.

[mattomjoe]

23. I think one of the big reasons a lot of people don't want to investigate

election fraud is the same reason why people accepted Oswald being the only one behind the JFK assassination -- they don't want to believe that their government is capable of some very bad things. Even if we are able to "pull the curtain", we have to make sure people a watching to see what's behind it. That's the challenge.

[smartvoter]

29. I think there is a great deal of truth in what you posted here. nt

[EFerrari]

25. Landshark came up with the perfect strategy.

Just ask people, what basis do you have for your confidence in our elections?

[IndyOp]

30. 57 Million People Could NOT Be So Stupid -

57 million people did NOT vote for *.

The public didn't vote for them.
These aren't our leaders.
After demonstrating gross negligence and incompetence they must resign.
We must have a recall election and install a new administration NOW.
We must have election security.

- Repeat so as to catapult TRUTH -

The public didn't vote for them.
These aren't our leaders.
After demonstrating gross negligence and incompetence they must resign.
We must have a recall election and install a new administration NOW.
We must have election security.

- Repeat so as to catapult TRUTH -

The public didn't vote for them.
These aren't our leaders.
After demonstrating gross negligence and incompetence they must resign.
We must have a recall election and install a new administration NOW.
We must have election security.

[smartvoter]

31. LOL. That's a lot of stupid. nt